Disks with TLER / ERC / CCTL & LCC [Table of drives]

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by mhakali, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. mhakali

    mhakali n00bie

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    I have been looking at some new drives, especially 2TB and 3TB. It can however be very hard to find information whether tools support setting TLER / ERC / CCTL and/or if the ability exists to modify LCC.

    I think there might be a general interest to know if these values can be modified. I know there's a lot of scattered information around aswell. A collective place would be very nice to look up these parameters, and I will start by contributing with the information I have. I am hoping that you will post replies to this threads contributing with additional information. I will update the post accordingly.



    Known disks / models

    Manufacturer - Model - Firmware - Interface - Cache - TLER - LCC - Comment

    2TB

    Hitachi - Ultrastar A7K2000 HUA722020ALA330 - JKAOA3HA - 3Gb/s - 32MB - FACTORY SET TO 7s - N/A - Disks shipping with Dell servers
    * Samsung - EcoGreen F4 HD204UI - ? - 3Gb/s - 32MB - NO - ? - I did not get it working, but parityboy did! Verifications please?
    * Samsung - EcoGreen F4 HD204UI - 1AQ10001 - 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES (TLER) - YES (LCC) - Will not survive a restart (parityboy) - More verifications please!
    Samsung - EcoGreen F3 HD203WI - 1AN10002 - 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES - YES - Reliable, no permanent setting
    Samsung - EcoGreen F3 HD203WI - 1AN10003 - 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES - YES - Reliable, no permanent setting
    Seagate - Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 - CC32 - 6Gb/s - 64MB - NO - NO - Seagate confirmed there is no way for modifying the values
    Western Digital - Caviar Green WD20EARS - ? - 3Gb/s - 64MB - NO - YES
    * Western Digital - Caviar Green WD20EADS - ?- 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES - YES - rmd3003 -- BEWARE: Only earlier hw revisions!

    1.5TB

    Seagate - Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS - CC1H - 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES - YES - Been running 10x in RAID6 without failure for 2 years.

    1TB

    * Western Digital - Caviar Green WD10EACS - ?- 3Gb/s - 16MB - YES - YES - rmd3003 -- BEWARE: Only earlier hw revisions!



    TLER?

    Time Limited Error Recovery - The ability for drives to remap sectors and silently recover from errors. This can take a while, so by being able to set TLER you can improve your chances for disks surviving in RAID setups.

    Error Recovery Control (ERC), used by Seagate, and Command Completion Time Limit (CCTL), used by Samsung and Hitachi provide the same functionality.

    Some drives have modifiable firmwares and can set hard values for enabling TLER. This is preferable if you are going to use a hardware RAID controller, where the S.M.A.R.T. may not be accessible for modification outside the controller. But this depends on the controller itself.

    Some drives have the ability to receive S.M.A.R.T. commands to set TLER to 7s during the operation of the drive. This value is reset on reboot or power loss on drive.



    LCC?

    Load Cycle Count, an internal counter of the harddrives S.M.A.R.T. table which records how many times a drive parks it's head. Many recent 5400-5900 RPM "Green" drives provides the functionality to increase drive life span and energy consumption.

    However, using the drives in a RAID will cause many load/releases of the head as all drives are accessed simultaneously. This can cause premature failure.



    Setting TLER

    Use smartctl from smartmontools, it exists for both Linux, BSD & Windows.

    Usage:

    Code:
    smartctl -l scterc,70,70 <device> 
    
    Under Linux you use the standard paths such as "/dev/sda", under Windows you use the device name such as "C:".



    Setting head parking parameters

    Use hdparm, versions for both *NIX and Windows exists.

    Code:
    hdparm -S 252 <device>
    


    Retrieving firmware version

    Use the following to retrieve the firmware version:

    Code:
    # smartctl -a <device> | grep Firmware
    Firmware Version: CC1H
    


    Is there some way to create a structured table here btw? I failed using the [TABLE] input. :)

    Contributions welcomed. I will copy/paste from your replies!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  2. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    Good call. :D OK, here's my contribution:

    Samsung - F4 EcoGreen HD204UI- 1AQ10001 - 3Gb/s - 32MB - YES (TLER) - YES (LCC) - Will not survive a restart

    Tested with smartmontools 5.3.8.
     
  3. sub.mesa

    sub.mesa 2[H]4U

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    Samsung should support CCTL, not TLER, right? Unlike TLER, CCTL does not survive a reboot so must be set on every boot (either by the OS or by the hardware RAID controller).
     
  4. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    Correct, but since the OP used TLER as a synonym for CCTL and ERC, so did I. :)
     
  5. rmd3003

    rmd3003 Limp Gawd

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    And how is it done? Let's say I reboot server and then.... ?
     
  6. Metaluna

    Metaluna Limp Gawd

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    I think a thread like this is a great idea.

    You should clarify what "modify LCC" means though. I assume you mean modify the head park timeout value, rather than modify the load cycle count counter itself. That would be kind of useless (akin to turning the odometer back on your car).
     
  7. nowwhatnapster

    nowwhatnapster Limp Gawd

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    +1 to that. I will make a contribution tonight for the western digital drives. I did not onow what the competitors equivalent of tler was.
     
  8. rmd3003

    rmd3003 Limp Gawd

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    Ha, I just tested my green WD drives on my WHS and 4 x 2TB and 4 x 1TB all support TLER. Yeeess.
     
  9. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    @rmd3003

    Could you specify the model please? Thanks. :)
     
  10. rmd3003

    rmd3003 Limp Gawd

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    Western Digital - Caviar Green WD20EADS -3Gb/s - 32MB - YES - YES
    Western Digital - Caviar Green WD10EACS -3Gb/s - 16MB - YES - YES
     
  11. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    @rmd3003

    Cheers for that. For those drives for whom the ERC/CCTL setting does not survive a reboot, you'd have to run a script to perform the task on start up.

    On Linux it would be something like:

    Code:
    smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sd*
    Where * is the letter of a given drive.

    On Windows it'd be a .bat file - I don't know where you'd put it.

    Code:
    smartctl -l scterc,70,70 C:
    Where C: is a drive, or possibly a RAID array. smartctl has pass-through modes for some hardware and firmware RAID controllers. A more natural method would be to tell the RAID controller directly, via its management software - hardware RAID controllers should support this, but I suspect that many do not.
     
  12. maxm

    maxm n00bie

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    For windows the device is named pdx where x is the physical device number.

    With 3ware controllers you can use pdx,y where y is the 3ware port number.
     
  13. mhakali

    mhakali n00bie

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    Cool!

    Got a firmware version for them? Is there a tool compatible to set the values permanently?
     
  14. mhakali

    mhakali n00bie

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    Copy / pasted some of your infos, and completed some more. Will add firmware versions to my drives soon. Thanks for the encouragement from many! :)
     
  15. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    @mkahali

    You should update the entry for the Samsung F4EG 2TB. I've verified that CCTL and head parking values can be set. :)
     
  16. mhakali

    mhakali n00bie

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    Cool!

    Inserted.
     
  17. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I thought WDC disabled this on all drives produced after some date. 2008? 2009?
     
  18. mhakali

    mhakali n00bie

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    Did some research, and added a note. Only earlier revisions are safe to do this with.
     
  19. Jamfan16

    Jamfan16 n00bie

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    Could it be placed in the Startup folder?

    Would this be the correct way to reference drives if I'm using an ICH7 based RAID and Intel's Rapid Storage software? Do you explicitly set the new TLER/CCTL for each drive as a separate smartctl command? Or if I reference C: would the new TLER/CCTL be applied to all drives in the RAID?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  20. maxoptimus

    maxoptimus n00bie

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    command --scan -d csmi (appear list of drives)
    Some like /dev/csmi0,2; /dev/csmi0,3 (according to ports used for raid).

    Also latest Seagate Baracuda XT (ST32000641AS; sata3; 64mb); scterc don't supported.:(

    Looks like on next out of space I will bought 8 cheap (Samsung - EcoGreen F4 HD204UI or
    Samsung - EcoGreen F3 HD203WI) and cheap 3ware raid card :cool:

    Currently I use 4 ST32000641AS (raid10 system and raid5 media, games, backup).
    Before build raid I made several times full write, verify and read tests. Run more then 6 month currently without problems on ICH9R (x38 Asus P5E), but after read several posts about TLER/ERC when thinking about external raid card, looks like I should expected big problems if some sectors will be reallocated.:confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  21. parityboy

    parityboy Limp Gawd

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    What device creates /dev/csmi?
     
  22. maxoptimus

    maxoptimus n00bie

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  23. Tanel

    Tanel n00bie

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    There is a lot of uncertainty going around about the Samsung F4 EcoGreen (HD204UI). I thought I'd bring an end to that.


    ##
    # Specifications:
    ##
    Motherboard: ASRock Z68 Pro3-M, BIOS v1.40, BIOS SATA Mode: AHCI
    Drives: 3x Samsung F4 EcoGreen 2TB (HD204UI), firmware "1AQ10001" out-of-box, all labeled "2011.07"
    Software stack A: Ubuntu 11.04 Desktop Live-CD i386, hdparm v9.32, smartctl 5.40 (r3124)
    Software stack B: Ubuntu 11.10 Desktop Live-CD i386 (daily build 2011-09-04), hdparm v9.37, smartctl 5.41 (r3365)


    ##
    # Performing the checks:
    ##
    Setting LLC (Load_Cycle_Count):
    Code:
    root@ubuntu:~# hdparm -S 1 /dev/sd{a,b,c}
    
    /dev/sda:
     setting standby to 1 (5 seconds)
    
    /dev/sdb:
     setting standby to 1 (5 seconds)
    
    /dev/sdc:
     setting standby to 1 (5 seconds)
    
    Checking LLC:
    Code:
    root@ubuntu:~# DRIVE=sda	# Test one drive at a time
    root@ubuntu:~# SLEEP=4		# 4 should not increase Load_Cycle_Count, 6 should
    root@ubuntu:~# for i in {1..10}; do smartctl -a /dev/$DRIVE | grep Load_Cycle_Count; done; sleep $SLEEP; for i in {1..10}; do smartctl -a /dev/$DRIVE | grep Load_Cycle_Count; done;
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
    root@ubuntu:~# SLEEP=6
    root@ubuntu:~# for i in {1..10}; do smartctl -a /dev/$DRIVE | grep Load_Cycle_Count; done; sleep $SLEEP; for i in {1..10}; do smartctl -a /dev/$DRIVE | grep Load_Cycle_Count; done;
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       16
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       17
    
    LLC: OK!
    LLC with soft reset: OK!
    LLC with hard reset: Reset to default!


    Setting SCT Error Recovery Control, Z68 native 6Gbps:
    Code:
    root@ubuntu:~# smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sda
    smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
    
    Error Write SCT Error Recovery Control Command failed: scsi error aborted command
    Warning: device does not support SCT (Set) Error Recovery Control command
    Suggest common arguments: scterc,70,70 to enable ERC or sct,0,0 to disable
    
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 6Gbps: FAIL!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 6Gbps and soft reset: FAIL!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 6Gbps and hard reset: FAIL!


    Setting SCT Error Recovery Control, Z68 native 3Gbps:
    Code:
    root@ubuntu:~# smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sdb
    smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
    
    SCT Error Recovery Control:
               Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
              Write:     70 (7.0 seconds)
    
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps: OK!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps and soft reset: OK!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps and hard reset: Reset to default!


    Setting SCT Error Recovery Control, Z68 native 3Gbps eSATA:
    Code:
    root@ubuntu:~# smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sdc
    smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
    
    
    Checking TLER/CCTL/ERC:
    SCT Error Recovery Control:
               Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
              Write:     70 (7.0 seconds)
    
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps eSATA: OK!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps eSATA and soft reset: OK!
    SCT Error Recovery Control w/ 3Gbps eSATA and hard reset: Reset to default!


    ##
    # Notes:
    ##
    1) According to Samsung, disks manufactured December 2010 or later include the firmware patch that resolves the issue with possible data loss. I wanted to be sure so I still flashed my drives. The updated firmware did not change any of the above results. More info about the patch and what it is to fix: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontools/wiki/SamsungF4EGBadBlocks

    2) As I couldn't get the SATA 6Gbps to work with SCT Error Recovery Control I hoped it would be solved with an updated software stack. However it made no difference.

    3) I have come across these (valuable) resources for TLER/CCTL/LLC:
    • HardForum: link
    • StorageForum: link
    • Habrahabr (Russian blog?): link
     
  24. MRAB54

    MRAB54 Gawd

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    I read this thread a week too late, purchased three ST300DM001 3TB seagate drives for use in RAID 5 with LSI 9260-41. I've opened two of the drives, plugged them in and smartmon reports that they do no support erc :mad:

    Makes me sick to my stomach. Is this really going to be a problem for me? I want reliability more than anything. Should I send the one drive back, eat the other ones? Are there any settings in the RAID controller that could minimize any of these issues?
     
  25. hotcrandel

    hotcrandel Gawd

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    If you're serious about reliability, I would. I've had such bad experiences trying to use consumer drives with RAID cards that I always just pay out the nose for enterprise drives..

    Did a firmware update to a 3ware card that hosed a bunch of pre-firmware update, supported drives, post firmware, no support and had a big fiasco on the array.

    I have very few/no problems with ultrastars and so far even deskstars, as well as WD RE disks.
     
  26. pingouyn

    pingouyn n00bie

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    I have read on forum that it would be possible to set the CCTL value (and maybe once and for all!) on the HD204UI HDD from Samsung. The people who did this used a DOS software called HDAT2.

    Has anyone heard of it or tried to set the CCTL on Samsung's impressive F4EG 2Tb drive in any other way than using HDAT2?
    I have read this forum thread and there is mention of solutions for Linux, unfortunately nothing for Windows.

    If anyone with an adventurous mind and a passion for problem solving want to try the HDAT2 approach, report the findings and the "how to" on this forum, that would be smashing indeed!
     
  27. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Excellent thread, I can't believe I didn't see this until now.
    Keep up the good work!