DirectX10 on XP

l3ender

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I've read some (not much) about Dx10 being cracked to run on XP. I'm just wondering what this actually entails...is it the real thing? Is this even fully possible? I basically just want some information on this.

I don't mean for this thread to get into a XP vs. Vista debate, so stay away from there.
 

pxc

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I've read some (not much) about Dx10 being cracked to run on XP.
You read wrong.

The closest thing to DX10 on XP is the Alky OpenGL wrapper, which runs no DX10 games and likely won't for a long time, if ever:
developer of Alky said:
Lastly, we have nothing definitive to report in regards to our support for DirectX 10 based games. As announced in the very beginning, this is a monumental effort and will take a great deal of time to implement properly. We hope to have a fully functioning demo in two months or so.
 

duby229

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I've read some (not much) about Dx10 being cracked to run on XP. I'm just wondering what this actually entails...is it the real thing? Is this even fully possible? I basically just want some information on this.

I don't mean for this thread to get into a XP vs. Vista debate, so stay away from there.

There are a few projects in the works, but none of them are in a useable state. Alky is the most promosing. It uses OpenGL functions to run DX10 code. They assentially "wrap" the DX10 API around OpenGL. The idea is very similar to the wine project, which emulates the entire windowws APi, where-as Alky only emulates DX10,otherwize implementation is almost the same. Both Wine and Alky have the same design problems, and and neither one of them can run DX10 code yet.

Given time though, both of them are promising projects that are being actively developed.
 

Finn

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If they succeed, it will be relabeled as 'whine' project with all the Vista users crying out foul for being suckered. :D
 

CptFalcon

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If they succeed, it will be relabeled as 'whine' project with all the Vista users crying out foul for being suckered. :D

If even half of them would be able to implement it into their machine.

Vista rocks my socks! :p
 

LstBrunnenG

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If they succeed, it will be relabeled as 'whine' project with all the Vista users crying out foul for being suckered. :D
Of course. I'll be the first to cry foul. I bought Vista solely because of DirectX 10. I mean, for the past year I've played nothing but DirectX 10 games, straight from Vista's RTM date.
 

elbarto

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Couple of things...
First, I think Alky just released an alpha for dx10 on xp that supports some games.

Second,
Of course. I'll be the first to cry foul. I bought Vista solely because of DirectX 10. I mean, for the past year I've played nothing but DirectX 10 games, straight from Vista's RTM date.
I don't think there have been dx10 games out a year ago. Most have been released in the past 5 months. Link
 

trick0502

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Of course. I'll be the first to cry foul. I bought Vista solely because of DirectX 10. I mean, for the past year I've played nothing but DirectX 10 games, straight from Vista's RTM date.

what dx10 games have you been playing for a year now?? and in your sig it says that you have a 7800, dx9 card.
 

eeyrjmr

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had DX10 come out & locked to Vista when SGI still froze OGL then yer there would of been an EXTREAMLY long/remote chance that DX10 would ever come to any OS apart from Vista

However... SGI sold the rights to OGL and allowed OGL to suddenly advance from the pre OGL2 stage to the now OGL3 (only reason DX became the more advance out of the two was cause no dev was done on ogl spec).

Now OGL3 does exactly what DX10.1 does, cause nvidia& ati agreed to expose the effects to OGL commands.

Now all that is needed is a translator that sits there as a kinda hacked DX10 for XP that takes the DX10 calls and maps them to OGL3 calls and there you have it
Creative already do something like that for DX-sound in vista to OpenAL so it is possible in windows-OS
And well everyone knows abt WINE

its a case of when not if DX10 comes to other operating systems
 

CptFalcon

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Couple of things...
First, I think Alky just released an alpha for dx10 on xp that supports some games.

Nope. I 100% w/o a doubt, doubt that you can run DX10 outside of Vista and you can quote me on that.
 

eeyrjmr

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you will never be able to run DX10 as in what MS ships with Vista or you can d/l on anything but vista

BUT you will eventually be able to run DX10 games and have DX10 effect in non-Vista operating systems... that is a given
 

duby229

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you will never be able to run DX10 as in what MS ships with Vista or you can d/l on anything but vista

BUT you will eventually be able to run DX10 games and have DX10 effect in non-Vista operating systems... that is a given

I couldnt have said it better myself.
 

LhasaCM

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you will never be able to run DX10 as in what MS ships with Vista or you can d/l on anything but vista

BUT you will eventually be able to run DX10 games and have DX10 effect in non-Vista operating systems... that is a given

The big question, of course, is at what cost in terms of speed/playability? (Even in Vista, DX10 effects so far haven't been the speediest...and any emulation would likely be at least a little less efficient...)
 

trick0502

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The big question, of course, is at what cost in terms of speed/playability? (Even in Vista, DX10 effects so far haven't been the speediest...and any emulation would likely be at least a little less efficient...)

have you seen the benchs on bioshock on the nvidia cards dx10 vs dx9? they are very close.
 

LhasaCM

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have you seen the benchs on bioshock on the nvidia cards dx10 vs dx9? they are very close.

Yes...but as I recall Bioshock doesn't allow AA when DX10 effects are enabled. Is that being done for technical reasons (which would open up a whole other set of questions) or because that keeps the benches close?

The thing with DX10 - the promise of the new version was more/better/cooler effects at a lower hardware cost. What we're seeing so far is a small uptick in the "neatness" but not with any performance savings at all - quite the opposite. Granted - it's VERY early, and it'll take time for drivers/programmers to mature and learn how to use the new feature set, so it's way too soon to say it's over. It's just not as smooth of a start as the PR folks would like us to believe.

I guess I'm just being skeptically optimistic.
 

duby229

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Yes...but as I recall Bioshock doesn't allow AA when DX10 effects are enabled. Is that being done for technical reasons (which would open up a whole other set of questions) or because that keeps the benches close?

The thing with DX10 - the promise of the new version was more/better/cooler effects at a lower hardware cost. What we're seeing so far is a small uptick in the "neatness" but not with any performance savings at all - quite the opposite. Granted - it's VERY early, and it'll take time for drivers/programmers to mature and learn how to use the new feature set, so it's way too soon to say it's over. It's just not as smooth of a start as the PR folks would like us to believe.

I guess I'm just being skeptically optimistic.

You pose some very good questions, and I'm not the one to answer them, but I'll take a stab at guessing....

If you look at what converters like Alky and Wine do, is they "wrap" other libraries around a reimplemented API. So in the case of Wine it actually takes DX API calls, and redirects them to equivalent OGL functions. In that case, it should be pretty close native performance in that, the DX layer isnt doing any of the actual rendering, instead it is simply being redirected to an equal OGL function. Which many times is much faster then DX due to a better implementation. If you take a look at wine, often times it can run a game faster then the same game in Windows due to OGL being better then DX

We'll have to wait and see, but It should perform fairly well.
 

Gorankar

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By the time we would actually be able to properly play games using DX10 in Xp, will we actually still want too?? I mean, will you still want to use Xp once it has reached eol and is no longer receiving security updates?? I prolly will not..
Historically, once a MS os reaches eol, game devs typically no longer bother to insure compatibility with that os... The pace that the DX10 on XP projects are moving at seems pretty slow, it could be a long while b4 they are really usable..

DX10 Wine emu on nix might be something interesting..
 

Scali2

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Well, what a surprise.. Falling Leaf systems closes down, and the Alky project is turned over to the opensource world: http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/

Guess they couldn't get DX10 working on XP after all... gee, what a surprise.
Sorry guys, guess you'd better go order your copies of Vista... SP1 is on its way anyway, so well, that kills that other excuse aswell :)
 

Finn

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Rofl everyone sees what a miserable failure DX10 is. Basically they upped the DX api to a n'th degree higher level and made it crawling slow.

Who wants it anymore is the real question. :D
 

Outamyhead

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Guess they couldn't get DX10 working on XP after all... gee, what a surprise. Sorry guys, guess you'd better go order your copies of Vista... SP1 is on its way anyway, so well, that kills that other excuse aswell :)

Nah, I'm waiting for the fully stable version of Vista to come out Summer 2008, going to be called Windows 7 (Code name Fiji), guess Vista was a rush job like ME after all.:D
 

bbz_Ghost

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Nah, I'm waiting for the fully stable version of Vista to come out Summer 2008, going to be called Windows 7 (Code name Fiji), guess Vista was a rush job like ME after all.:D

2008 eh... might wanna tack on 2 years to that. :)
 

LstBrunnenG

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Yeah. The Windows Formerly Known As Vienna is coming out in 2009 at the earliest, and if you believe that release date, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you, PM me.

Besides, what makes you think Vienna is going to be any good if you already hate Vista? I can garuantee you that, to the Vista-hater, Vienna will also share one of Vista's most troubling flaws - it's not XP. More likely, the rallying cry will be "Vienna sucks! It's just Vista with bloat and new eye candy!"
 

Usquabach

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As someone who has used both ME and Vista, I never had any stability issues with either. I actually really like Vista so far (despite one or two issues that required firmware updates to my router at first)

mind you I have never really installed any demanding software on my machines besides games and productivity (Office) so maybe I just got lucky and avoided the headaches.

Either way I went in expecting the worst out of both OS's but came out rather pleased (so far).
 
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Of course. I'll be the first to cry foul. I bought Vista solely because of DirectX 10. I mean, for the past year I've played nothing but DirectX 10 games, straight from Vista's RTM date.

Can I also ask how you unlocked a 7800 to DX10 (unless your sig is out of date), and can I ask what DX10 games you played on Vistas RTM date, because I would like to know how and where you got your magic powers. I could of sworn the first cards to sport dx10 capabilities were the 8800 cards and the drivers were delayed oh and not to mention the first game (Bioshock) to actually use dx10 were not even available until 5 months ago. :rolleyes:
 

pxc

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LOL @ my "if ever" comment in post #2. It went nowhere as I predicted. :cool:
 

Scali2

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LOL @ my "if ever" comment in post #2. It went nowhere as I predicted. :cool:

Just amazing how badly some people WANT to believe certain things.
Amazing that you find such people on a *tech* forum. Even if you don't know much about programming yourself, one look at Wine should show you just how hard it is to get any version of DirectX implemented well enough to actually run games.
I guess that guy from Falling Leaf software was just way too naive, after all, he was only 20 years old. Either that, or he know from the start that he wouldn't get anywhere, but could make a quick buck out of the publicity.
 
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