DirectX 12 To Ship With Windows 10

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For those of you interested, Microsoft announced today that DirectX 12 will ship with Windows 10.

We especially encourage gamers to help us make this release great for you by becoming Windows Insiders. Game developers who are part of our DirectX 12 Early Access program have even more incentive to join the Windows Insider program. These game developers will receive everything they need to kickstart their DX12 development, including: updated runtime, API headers, drivers, documentation, and samples, all of which will work with the Windows 10 Technical Preview.
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Are any game developers currently programing (or soon to be) any games that will work with DirectX 12 within the first year of Windows 10 coming out?
 
In other words, the same crap they pulled with Vista and DX10.

Doubt they release a DX12 update for Win7 or 8.
 
When Windows 13 comes out in 2018 and the first game I care about uses DirectX 12, please let me know.
 
Such total bullshit that they will not release Dx12 for Win7 or Win8.... and you know they won't.
 
I suspect it'll ship to Win8. They have nothing to lose by allowing that. But I can't imagine it'll go to Win7. I'll eat my hat if it does!
 
I think DX10 being exclusive to Vista was part of the reason it failed. Looks like they want to make the same fuckup again.
 
I spent about 30 minutes with it over the day and even though I created a local account and "disabled" every available option for disclosing information, taskbar search button was suggesting some crap. what really raised my brow was settings button presented me with a useless menu explaining how I need to manage my local account on the web. it was hilarious

stay away from windows 10
 
Typical predictable MS BS. New version of Windows, gotta put some incentive in for sales. Hey MS - get bent. :mad:

Wiki says:
in the words of lead developer Max McMullen, the goal is to achieve "console-level efficiency".[44]
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Just what we need, more easily done console -> PC porting. :rolleyes:
 
Low Roller said:
In other words, the same crap they pulled with Vista and DX10.
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DX10-only games didn't run on XP. DX10-only games didn't run on DX9 hardware. On the other-hand, DX12 games WILL run on Windows 7, 8, and 8.1, as well as on DX11 and 11.1 hardware, but will simply be restricted to the appropriate feature level.
 
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
 
canon.tk said:
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
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Technical people are the most cynical people I know (myself included). :p
 
GoodBoy said:
Such total bullshit that they will not release Dx12 for Win7 or Win8.... and you know they won't.
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If they don't it'll only help SteamOS. Because seriously if they paywall DirectX again it only means they still take Windows gamers for granted and still dont' care that they're holding back graphics by forcing all but the biggest developers to code for the lowest common denominator version of DX in order to hit the biggest potential install base.

SteamOS really needs to democratize the 3D renderer, it won't happen right away but I hope in the next 3-5 years it makes some inroads to wipe the smug off Microsoft's face.
 
canon.tk said:
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
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Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not the mark of someone technically savvy. Looking before leaping is. And Microsoft placing DirectX behind the windows upgrade paywall every time they sneeze a new iteration of Windows has only served to fragment and hold back graphics. Why do you think games are STILL coming out based on DirectX9?

Try to think a little bigger picture.
 
zero2dash said:
Wiki says:
Quote:
in the words of lead developer Max McMullen, the goal is to achieve "console-level efficiency".[44]
Just what we need, more easily done console -> PC porting.
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You're not reading that right. They are trying to be like AMD's Mantle API and let the game code get closer to hardware level instead of DirectX API getting in the way like it has since inception.

So basically we are getting back to Windows 95/98 days where Sound/Video was much closer than anything in NT OS'es.



What I take away from that article is DX12 should be ready by the time W10 releases. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't also get a release on W7 and W8. My bigger question is when will my GTX970 see some games with DX12!??!
 
DPI said:
Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not the mark of someone technically savvy. Looking before leaping is. And Microsoft placing DirectX behind the windows upgrade paywall every time they sneeze a new iteration of Windows has only served to fragment and hold back graphics. Why do you think games are STILL coming out based on DirectX9?

Try to think a little bigger picture.
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No, he was right, technical people like to bitch and moan about upgrading, nothing more, nothing less. (No bigger picture than that, just take a look at your own post history.)
 
ManofGod said:
No, he was right, technical people like to bitch and moan about upgrading, nothing more, nothing less. (No bigger picture than that, just take a look at your own post history.)
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No, people who are actually tech savvy don't just buy into everything Microsoft shoves down their throats unquestioningly.
 
canon.tk said:
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
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If you're claiming MS were justified in selling Win 95, 95OSR2, 98, 98SE and ME as five separate operating systems, or NT4/2K/XP as three separate OS's etc, you would be in an extreme minority of everyone I've ever talked to about PC upgrades, not just techies. The company imo have been getting away with global extortion since XP, and implementation of WPA. After 12 years nobody has offered an explanation of how MS is justified in licensing a generic OS per machine, other than their 90% essential monopoly on the world's desktops and the fact they can legally get away with it in our country.
 
DPI said:
If they don't it'll only help SteamOS. Because seriously if they paywall DirectX again it only means they still take Windows gamers for granted and still dont' care that they're holding back graphics by forcing all but the biggest developers to code for the lowest common denominator version of DX in order to hit the biggest potential install base.

SteamOS really needs to democratize the 3D renderer, it won't happen right away but I hope in the next 3-5 years it makes some inroads to wipe the smug off Microsoft's face.
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I want to see Sony license the PS4 APIs to Valve & Apple (if for no other reason than to stick another nail into the XB.1/DirectX coffin).
 
DPI said:
Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not the mark of someone technically savvy. Looking before leaping is. And Microsoft placing DirectX behind the windows upgrade paywall every time they sneeze a new iteration of Windows has only served to fragment and hold back graphics. Why do you think games are STILL coming out based on DirectX9?

Try to think a little bigger picture.
Click to expand...

I do see the bigger picture. My Microsoft history:

MS-DOS 3.3
MS-DOS 5
MS-DOS 6.22
Windows 3.11
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows XP
Windows 7
Windows 8.1

I've been in IT for a long time and worked with many other OSes. Guess I'm one of the few that likes change, for the better, instead of people on this forum that want it but the don't want what they have to be different, or just want everything to be free.

I don't just upgrade to upgrade and don't buy into crap.
 
canon.tk said:
I do see the bigger picture. My Microsoft history:

MS-DOS 3.3
MS-DOS 5
MS-DOS 6.22
Windows 3.11
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows XP
Windows 7
Windows 8.1

I've been in IT for a long time and worked with many other OSes. Guess I'm one of the few that likes change, for the better, instead of people on this forum that want it but the don't want what they have to be different, or just want everything to be free.

I don't just upgrade to upgrade and don't buy into crap.
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Troll harder :D
 
ktk said:
Troll harder :D
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I fail to see how that is trolling. Just explaining my history with upgrading.

And for the other guy's post, I don't recall anyone I know personally bitching about the release frequency of desktop windows versions. For me dealing with workstations still on old operating systems is much worse than having to deal with annoying start menus and charms.

My only real complaint is with the R2 releases of windows server. That is extortion.
 
I upgrade every good OS. I've done Vista (never had an issue), Windows 8 (without start menu replacement)... I never used ME on my own machine, though. I went with 2000 and was happy with it. DX on NT. Gaming was fine, everything else worked. Perfect consumer NT OS.

I upgrade because I like the new stuff. It hits mainstream, and I will support it eventually. But, I love playing with new stuff. OS, CPU's, beta software, whatever. It's fun. When I make it all productive and 'just a job' type stuff, I know I'm ready to move to a different career. I'm done. Or a manager...

I may not like every feature or thing about the new product, but it's always a step forward. Start screen - love/hate relationship... I forced myself into it, and I don't mind it anymore. Win10 menu, I love it. Best of both worlds.

DX12 on Win10 only? Doubtful. It's so close to Win8 kernel, it's not going to be limited to Win10. There isn't anything hugely different like there was between XP and Vista. Besides, it does take a few years to get DX adoption and games anyway. By then, Win11 will be available and you'll have a reason to upgrade....
 
MavericK96 said:
No, people who are actually tech savvy don't just buy into everything Microsoft shoves down their throats unquestioningly.
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This is what separates people who work in the field from people at home with PC's that light up cause it looks cool. Just cause it's new doesn't make it better or worth the money and effort. Remember a OS upgrade means compatibility issues with both hardware and software, along with spending money to upgrade what exactly? More speed and stability? Every benchmark I've seen with 8 vs 7 has been mixed. Sometimes 8 is much faster and sometimes it's slower. Depends on who's benchmarking it and what patches they've installed I guess?

10 better have something more then just a UI change. And DX12 will never see the light of day if it's Windows 10 exclusive. Seriously 60+% people use Windows 7 and that's not likely to change anytime soon.
 
canon.tk said:
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's one of the reasons I spend so little time here anymore.
 
MavericK96 said:
No, people who are actually tech savvy don't just buy into everything Microsoft shoves down their throats unquestioningly.
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Indeed. There's a term for people that take everything a company says and shoves it down their throats unquestioningly in the tech industry; apple user.
 
Ashbringer said:
This is what separates people who work in the field from people at home with PC's that light up cause it looks cool. Just cause it's new doesn't make it better or worth the money and effort. Remember a OS upgrade means compatibility issues with both hardware and software, along with spending money to upgrade what exactly? More speed and stability? Every benchmark I've seen with 8 vs 7 has been mixed. Sometimes 8 is much faster and sometimes it's slower. Depends on who's benchmarking it and what patches they've installed I guess?

10 better have something more then just a UI change. And DX12 will never see the light of day if it's Windows 10 exclusive. Seriously 60+% people use Windows 7 and that's not likely to change anytime soon.
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Enterprise and Consumer have always been two different animals ... DX12 adds little for the enterprise user ... personally I think that Microsoft would be best served abandoning the Consumer user who is hardest to please (or at least separate the Enterprise and Consumer products again), and concentrate their efforts on the Enterprise user where they still have a dominant position and where ultra high performance (cough cough GAMING cough cough) isn't a consideration

Personally I miss the 90's when we were upgrading our home PCs constantly ... it is actually kind of sad that performance of the processors and graphics has become so advanced now that you can hang onto a system for years instead of months (I used to upgrade my video card in the 00's about every 12-18 months) ... my first job out of college (back in the late 80's) was with Intel and I remember Grove talking about the technology spiral where software needs forced hardware to upgrade which allowed software to fall behind ... the hardware companies have kept up their part of the bargain with constant upgrades but the software guys have dropped the ball and don't push the envelope anymore ... games like Crysis used to be the benchmark to follow (build software that almost no one could run effectively so that you had to upgrade ... rinse and repeat) ... we need more developers like ID in the 90's and Crytek in the 00's to return to that model
 
devonhiee said:
I heard DX12 utilizes all cores? Guess I need to check out this Windows 10...
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how does it miraculously split tasks to be multi core and then re-syncs all the treads properly without any involvement of the game's developers? the whole multi core is BS. according to some ancient intel road map we should have something like 64 core cpus by now and we have neither that nor proper multi threading in pretty much any application except rendering and server stuff.
 
GotNoRice said:
DX10-only games didn't run on XP
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OFFICIALLY they didn't, but some hacks for the early DX10 games demonstrated that DirectX 10 games could run on XP no problem. It was artificially blocked.

GotNoRice said:
On the other-hand, DX12 games WILL run on Windows 7
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Source?

RogueTrip said:
I don't see any reason why it shouldn't also get a release on W7 and W8.
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MS has traditionally tried to herd people towards their newest OS's with manuevers like that. Windows 8 is an embarrassment to Microsoft and they're competing against themselves trying to get people off Windows 7. Even now, they've tried to usher every to 8.1 as soon as possible. My guess is DX12 will be for 8.1 and 10 as a tactic to push gamers off of Windows 7.
 
DPI said:
Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not the mark of someone technically savvy. Looking before leaping is. And Microsoft placing DirectX behind the windows upgrade paywall every time they sneeze a new iteration of Windows has only served to fragment and hold back graphics. Why do you think games are STILL coming out based on DirectX9?

Try to think a little bigger picture.
Click to expand...

I just had a chat with a game developer who claimed there's nothing they can't do in DX9 that DX10,11,12 would do. I guess MS is building them for nothing.
 
Hopefully more gaming companies will upgrade to OpenGL for their PC games.
 
BladeVenom said:
Hopefully more gaming companies will upgrade to OpenGL for their PC games.
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I just read an article about OpenGL. The support is too limited. OpenGL works great on one card, sucks on the other.
 
kbrickley said:
Enterprise and Consumer have always been two different animals ... DX12 adds little for the enterprise user ... personally I think that Microsoft would be best served abandoning the Consumer user who is hardest to please (or at least separate the Enterprise and Consumer products again), and concentrate their efforts on the Enterprise user where they still have a dominant position and where ultra high performance (cough cough GAMING cough cough) isn't a consideration
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My comment was just directed to gamers, though gamers have more to benefit from upgrading than someone who just logs onto Facebook and sends emails.

It's funny that Microsoft should go enterprise only when they dominate the consumer OS market. When Microsofts biggest competitor is themselves, or their older generation of products. Besides any company that goes enterprise only seems to come back to the consumer market with their tail between their legs. Seems like every company nowadays retreats to enterprise land.
Personally I miss the 90's when we were upgrading our home PCs constantly ... it is actually kind of sad that performance of the processors and graphics has become so advanced now that you can hang onto a system for years instead of months (I used to upgrade my video card in the 00's about every 12-18 months) ... my first job out of college (back in the late 80's) was with Intel and I remember Grove talking about the technology spiral where software needs forced hardware to upgrade which allowed software to fall behind ... the hardware companies have kept up their part of the bargain with constant upgrades but the software guys have dropped the ball and don't push the envelope anymore ... games like Crysis used to be the benchmark to follow (build software that almost no one could run effectively so that you had to upgrade ... rinse and repeat) ... we need more developers like ID in the 90's and Crytek in the 00's to return to that model
Click to expand...
Companies are too busy trying to squeeze out every penny the consumer is worth. Right now nobody wants to become the new ID or Crytek cause it profits them more to make games that use older hardware. Specifically the 360/PS3 which hurt the PC market a lot ever since they were released. Even Destiny is made for the 360/PS3 and its focus is to get consumers is to buy DLCs in advance before they even have a product that's successful. Which they don't.

Then you have companies that claim the future is 4k and nothing more, when they clearly have no interest in exploring more physics in game engines.
 
canon.tk said:
Never thought I'd see the day when technical people bitch and moan this much about upgrading (and pretty much everything else). Forums are getting hard to read.
Click to expand...

People like to upgrade for positive reasons. They do not like feeling forced to upgrade because of negative reasons. So a leaner meaner OS with various improvements is a good reason to upgrade. They feel the same about hardware and lack of driver support. Suddenly dropping driver support of lets say a certain sound card just so you can release a new model with the same features with actual new OS driver support is wasteful. In the end it is the finance side taking over the technical side of a project, so of course technical types would get upset. Very few users like artificial barriers design to increase profits.
 
B00nie said:
I just had a chat with a game developer who claimed there's nothing they can't do in DX9 that DX10,11,12 would do. I guess MS is building them for nothing.
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I'm guessing he means graphics wise. Yes you can get the same graphics, hell you could get the same graphics in software mode running on a CPU. Difference is, DX 10 and 11 are more efficient, and allow either faster FPS or more effects for the same FPS. DX12 is even more efficient.
 
GoodBoy said:
Such total bullshit that they will not release Dx12 for Win7 or Win8.... and you know they won't.
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Well Mainstream support for win7 ends before win10 comes out so, that means no new features to be added. 8 could get it but if ppl haven't updated to 8 by now they won't even if it gets it.
 
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