Digital rights protection in vista

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colbyman

Limp Gawd
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Hey i just want to know what the digital rights protection does to the music that you already have. im about to upgrade and media and games is all i do. alot of my music is from limewire and other sources. what will vista do to it? will i have to get rid of it? if anyone has gone through this process and had problems please let me know. i dont want to lose a bunch of stuff just for a stupid upgrade... maybe not stupid but...

thanks, colby
 
It'll do nothing at all to it. The media you have will all work just as it has previously.
 
thank you very much. i was told that bad thing happen and i about jumped off a cliff! im glad nothing happens. how sure are you though? i just want to make sure...
 
FUD FTL.

Yes, Vista DRM is a huge benefit to the consumer. It allows you to play media that has been "broken" thanks to the MPAA and RIAA. Vista DRM capabilities are no more than that - capabilities. Vista is capable of playing DRM protected media just like your Blu-ray DVD player is capable of playing DRM protected media.

There is nothing mandatory about the DRM capabilities in Vista. You don't like the DRM that has been forced on Blu-ray disks? Don't buy Blu-ray disks! ;)
 
I think the topic itself should be "fixed" since it's "Digital rights management in Vista" that we're discussing, but that's just me.

Whoa... they brought out a heavyweight for that article... Mr. Crypto himself... geez

I don't know what's scarier now, DRM or... the fact that they're bringing out the bigwigs in the encryption fields to diss it. Good lord... will this ever end...
 
bbz_Ghost said:
I think the topic itself should be "fixed" since it's "Digital rights management in Vista" that we're discussing, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

It is not Microsoft's place to "fix" DRM by cracking in the name if fair use... or whatever...


maven said:
DRM is good????

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html
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Please go back and read my post. I wrote what...like 10 words? And you managed to take them out of context. That has to be a new record.
 
eeyrjmr said:
like MS saying Linux is a communist OS and cost more
Click to expand...

think about it....once you're done thinking about it, you can then equate it to comments that Sony makes. there is FUD on both sides and you know that.
 
drizzt81 said:
Excellent to know this. Where is the ``off'' switch? How do I disable them, if I prefer not to use them?
Click to expand...

Don't buy or attempt to play any DRM protected content and the DRM libraries will never be loaded.
 
What if I don want the DRM libraries on my system at all? Where is the uninstall? What if I want to CREATE non-drm content? Where is the MS backed utilities to provide this?

Seems to me that it is being forced on us, most specifically by MS....
 
duby229 said:
What if I don want the DRM libraries on my system at all? Where is the uninstall? What if I want to CREATE non-drm content? Where is the MS backed utilities to provide this?

Seems to me that it is being forced on us, most specifically by MS....
Click to expand...

What are you babbling on about? Any content you, yourself, create does not have DRM. If you save an office document in Vista, it does not have any form of DRM protection. If you compose a song using some music composing software, it does not have DRM protection (unless the program itself applies the protection). Microsoft does not provide a way to create DRM-protected files in Vista.

The ONLY thing Microsoft is doing is ensuring that consumers can play DRM-protected files if consumers choose to do so. Don't like DRM in iTunes Music Store purchases or in Blu-Ray movies? Great, don't buy copy-protected/DRM-ridden movies and music. I don't particularly care for it either. However, when you buy music or movies, the distributor has the right to restrict how you use the music and/or movies. This is not Microsoft's fault, and you can't continue to blame Microsoft for this. If you don't like it, protest to the industry, and to your government representatives. They have the means to change this. Microsoft does not.
 
maven said:
DRM is good????

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html
Click to expand...

We've had this discussion before recently, and the FUD in that article and its reference sources have been strongly disputed.

What if I don want the DRM libraries on my system at all? Where is the uninstall? What if I want to CREATE non-drm content? Where is the MS backed utilities to provide this?
Click to expand...
If anybody is truly that anal it is basically simply a service which can be disabled just like any other service. There is a detectable (ie measurable) performance impact from having it running, but if the impact is great enough to cause any impact on the user experience then it'd only be because the user is trying to run Vista on a system which isn't powerful enough for the purpose to which it is being put.

There are no restrictions placed upon people who wish to create non-DRM protection content.
 
Catweazle said:
We've had this discussion before recently, and the FUD in that article and its reference sources have been strongly disputed.


If anybody is truly that anal it is basically simply a service which can be disabled just like any other service. There is a detectable (ie measurable) performance impact from having it running, but if the impact is great enough to cause any impact on the user experience then it'd only be because the user is trying to run Vista on a system which isn't powerful enough for the purpose to which it is being put.

There are no restrictions placed upon people who wish to create non-DRM protection content.
Click to expand...

I dont care about performance, my computer can handle it without blinking an eye... But If I dont want it installed on my computer, then I have no choice. I have to except it, and move on... This is my problem with it. Despite your feelings on what DRM actually is, I have a differing opinion, and I dont want it on my computer at all period. MS does not give me that option.
 
Oooska said:
What are you babbling on about? Any content you, yourself, create does not have DRM. If you save an office document in Vista, it does not have any form of DRM protection. If you compose a song using some music composing software, it does not have DRM protection (unless the program itself applies the protection). Microsoft does not provide a way to create DRM-protected files in Vista.

The ONLY thing Microsoft is doing is ensuring that consumers can play DRM-protected files if consumers choose to do so. Don't like DRM in iTunes Music Store purchases or in Blu-Ray movies? Great, don't buy copy-protected/DRM-ridden movies and music. I don't particularly care for it either. However, when you buy music or movies, the distributor has the right to restrict how you use the music and/or movies. This is not Microsoft's fault, and you can't continue to blame Microsoft for this. If you don't like it, protest to the industry, and to your government representatives. They have the means to change this. Microsoft does not.
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Oh really? Maybe you should look into windows media files... Or Office-XML....
 
Alright, to get to the point really quick:

duby229 is flat out saying "I don't care if it's in there and I may never use it, or if I never choose to use it, I simply don't want it in my OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD and I should have that right."

If I'm wrong there, duby, let me know and I'll edit it or I'll just be quiet, your choice. This DRM shit is starting to get on my damned nerves, really, and when people are trying to have a discussion it really comes in handy to actually read and comprehend what the other people are actually saying instead of just making assumptions.

As I said, if I'm wrong, I'll edit it or delete the content of this posting outright, but I'm not blind, and I sure as hell ain't deaf, and sooner or later duby is gonna have to scream it from the rooftops to get someone that actually listens.

I'd like to think I heard ya... :D

Maybe the next fiasco will be "CharacterMap and you..." and people will bitch because they simply don't need it or want it in their OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD. :)
 
bbz_Ghost said:
Alright, to get to the point really quick:

duby229 is flat out saying "I don't care if it's in there and I may never use it, or if I never choose to use it, I simply don't want it in my OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD and I should have that right."

If I'm wrong there, duby, let me know and I'll edit it or I'll just be quiet, your choice. This DRM shit is starting to get on my damned nerves, really, and when people are trying to have a discussion it really comes in handy to actually read and comprehend what the other people are actually saying instead of just making assumptions.

As I said, if I'm wrong, I'll edit it or delete the content of this posting outright, but I'm not blind, and I sure as hell ain't deaf, and sooner or later duby is gonna have to scream it from the rooftops to get someone that actually listens.

I'd like to think I heard ya... :D

Maybe the next fiasco will be "CharacterMap and you..." and people will bitch because they simply don't need it or want it in their OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD. :)
Click to expand...

Oh don't get me wrong, I completely understood the message, but Microsoft is not likely to acquiesce to his demands. So if he hates it so much should feel free to NOT USE THE OS or find some other workaround to remove the DRM librarys, which I'm sure will come up, because the DRM isn't going to magically disappear by kicking and screaming about it.
 
bbz_Ghost said:
Alright, to get to the point really quick:

duby229 is flat out saying "I don't care if it's in there and I may never use it, or if I never choose to use it, I simply don't want it in my OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD and I should have that right."

If I'm wrong there, duby, let me know and I'll edit it or I'll just be quiet, your choice. This DRM shit is starting to get on my damned nerves, really, and when people are trying to have a discussion it really comes in handy to actually read and comprehend what the other people are actually saying instead of just making assumptions.

As I said, if I'm wrong, I'll edit it or delete the content of this posting outright, but I'm not blind, and I sure as hell ain't deaf, and sooner or later duby is gonna have to scream it from the rooftops to get someone that actually listens.

I'd like to think I heard ya... :D

Maybe the next fiasco will be "CharacterMap and you..." and people will bitch because they simply don't need it or want it in their OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD. :)
Click to expand...

You got it exactly right. If MS wants to provide DRM functions, so be it... But I feel they should also provide the means to simply not install it. This goes beyond DRM in my opinion to other code on the system, such as WMP, and IE... But that is a topic for another thread...
 
bbz_Ghost said:
Alright, to get to the point really quick:

duby229 is flat out saying "I don't care if it's in there and I may never use it, or if I never choose to use it, I simply don't want it in my OS FOR ANY REASON PERIOD and I should have that right."
Click to expand...

I've been hearing that from the outset also, from duby229 and anybody else putting the same line across.

I simply find it incredibly funny, is all, because it sounds so much like a 'terrible twos' toddler throwing a dinner table tantrum with "I'M NOT GOING TO EAT IT BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT!"


Perhaps we need Super Nanny to come to the rescue?

LOL
 
duby229 said:
I dont care about performance, my computer can handle it without blinking an eye... But If I dont want it installed on my computer, then I have no choice. I have to except it, and move on... This is my problem with it. Despite your feelings on what DRM actually is, I have a differing opinion, and I dont want it on my computer at all period. MS does not give me that option.
Click to expand...

I WANT A COPY OF THE MATRIX WITHOUT THE OPTION TO LISTEN TO IT IN SPANISH!!! AND I WANT IT... NOW!!!!1

Universal Pictures has NOT given me that option.

/cries to momma

If I DON'T want a copy of the Matrix with the ability to play with Spanish audio, then I need to find another movie to watch.


Seriously duby... you DON'T HAVE A CHOICE????
 
I got that Matrix with the Spanish stripped out. It was on the shelf, seriously. Where are you buying this stuff? :)

All I'm going to say is: since I get personally attacked so much for my own opinions about stuff, it would be nice to see people back off now on duby before this gets really out of hand and yet another fuckin' post gets closed or has more Mod attention than necessary.

Just a suggestion, yanno...
 
calebb said:
I WANT A COPY OF THE MATRIX WITHOUT THE OPTION TO LISTEN TO IT IN SPANISH!!! AND I WANT IT... NOW!!!!1

Universal Pictures has NOT given me that option.

/cries to momma

If I DON'T want a copy of the Matrix with the ability to play with Spanish audio, then I need to find another movie to watch.


Seriously duby... you DON'T HAVE A CHOICE????
Click to expand...

Bitch to universal pictures about it... I've already bitched to MS about it, I've done my part... I am simply stating an opinion. I know MS wont do it, and that is my complaint.

But throwing a temper tantrum on an internet forum is a bit out of control.... A ten point font is adequate... Whether it is big or small it still says the same thing.

Read my sig... I've been running Linuxas my main desktop for well over 4 years now... But I still use and enjoy Windows on a daily basis as well... I would just like to have a choice what applications and libraries are installed on my computer... MS doesnt give me that choice.
 
duby229 said:
Bitch to universal pictures about it... I've already bitched to MS about it, I've done my part... I am simply stating an opinion. I know MS wont do it, and that is my complaint.

But throwing a temper tantrum on an internet forum is a bit out of control.... A ten point font is adequate... Whether it is big or small it still says the same thing.

Read my sig... I've been running Linuxas my main desktop for well over 4 years now... But I still use and enjoy Windows on a daily basis as well... I would just like to have a choice what applications and libraries are installed on my computer... MS doesnt give me that choice.
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Well said. I was hoping someone would point out that there is nothing wrong with wanting freedom of choice. You can remove character map quite easily, all without breaking any laws, go figure.
 
duby229 said:
Bitch to universal pictures about it... I've already bitched to MS about it, I've done my part... I am simply stating an opinion. I know MS wont do it, and that is my complaint.
Click to expand...

Why should I? And why should Microsoft change anything? They are providing you with free extra value. Just like Universal Pictures is providing me with free extra value (Spanish audio).

But throwing a temper tantrum on an internet forum is a bit out of control.... A ten point font is adequate... Whether it is big or small it still says the same thing.
Click to expand...

Sorry for making fun of you :(

Read my sig... I've been running Linuxas my main desktop for well over 4 years now... But I still use and enjoy Windows on a daily basis as well... I would just like to have a choice what applications and libraries are installed on my computer...
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What "choice." Your choice is to buy DRM protected content.

I don't see you getting mad at Panasonic for making Blu-ray players... Lets be fair here. You cannot in good conscience single out Microsoft for allowing you to play DRM protected media unless you are also going to also call out every other manufacturer that produces an item that lets you play DRM protected media.


MS doesnt give me that choice.
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You're missing the big picture here. What obligation does Microsoft have to you? They have already given you a choice: Don't buy DRM protected media and you won't be affected by DRM support in Vista. But that's not granular enough for you?



How about another example: I don't like 24-bit color. It's not enough that Microsoft lets me choose whether or not to use 24-bit color! I want them to let me take out the option to even use 24-bit color!

Do you understand how ridiculous this becomes? Will you pay $600 more for your copy of Windows due to the extra manpower to add functionality to disable the option to even have a choice? How about the additional bloat? Will you be ok with that? It can't stop at DRM - we must make every option, optional!

In fact, I want the option to make my options optional, also to be optional!!1111
 
defuseme2k said:
Well said. I was hoping someone would point out that there is nothing wrong with wanting freedom of choice. You can remove character map quite easily, all without breaking any laws, go figure.
Click to expand...

But you can't remove 24-bit color support....
 
calebb said:
Why should I? And why should Microsoft change anything? They are providing you with free extra value. Just like Universal Pictures is providing me with free extra value (Spanish audio).
Click to expand...

Value is in the eyes of the beholder. I think DRM is a bane on existance, and is doing nothing more then holding technology back... This is just my personal opinion. I realize that you have a different opinion, and you are entitled to it. So for those folks that want DRM... Install it, but for those folks that dont want DRM, an option should be made available to NOT install it. Different strokes for different folks. Instead we have MS forcing us all into a single stereotype.

calebb said:
Sorry for making fun of you :(
Click to expand...

Not a problem man :D

calebb said:
What "choice." Your choice is to buy DRM protected content.
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Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with this either, and I've made what stand I can. If I was in the movie Industry I would make my stand to the MPAA... If I was in the music industry, I would make my stand to the RIAA... But I'm not... I'm a network technician. I work with computers for a living. So I make my stand against MS decisions, becouse it is something I'm more knowledgeable about... It's something where I have an educated opinion...

You have to make your stand where you can...

calebb said:
I don't see you getting mad at Panasonic for making Blu-ray players... Lets be fair here. You cannot in good conscience single out Microsoft for allowing you to play DRM protected media unless you are also going to also call out every other manufacturer that produces an item that lets you play DRM protected media.
Click to expand...

And as I said, for those folks that want to have DRM capability, then it should be provided, but for us folks that dont want it, the option should exist to simply not install it.

calebb said:
You're missing the big picture here. What obligation does Microsoft have to you? They have already given you a choice: Don't buy DRM protected media and you won't be affected by DRM support in Vista. But that's not granular enough for you?
Click to expand...

Like I said you have to make your stand where you can. I dont agree with it, but I cant stand out against everything, and everyone. Despite the popular theme that one man can change the world, that is BS... It's not true... One man can only do so much. I work with computers for a living so my stand is in the computer industry.

calebb said:
How about another example: I don't like 24-bit color. It's not enough that Microsoft lets me choose whether or not to use 24-bit color! I want them to let me take out the option to even use 24-bit color!
Click to expand...

Invalid.... Say you buy a HDDVD with DRM... You need DRM, which is itself an artificial restriction, in order to play that content... What your refering to here is a HARDWARE restriction.... As such it is an invalid comparison.

calebb said:
Do you understand how ridiculous this becomes? Will you pay $600 more for your copy of Windows due to the extra manpower to add functionality to disable the option to even have a choice? How about the additional bloat? Will you be ok with that? It can't stop at DRM - we must make every option, optional!

In fact, I want the option to make my options optional, also to be optional!!1111
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

If it costs that much to fix it, then their is an underlying problem in application management... An application is an application, and a library is a library.... A collection of files, and nothing more. If it costs that much money to simply not install those files, then there is a major framework problem that needs resolved... And that aint my problem, that'd be MS.... Yes I agree with you.. I dont want IE, or WMP, or Movie maker, or Windows Messenger, and a number of others....

Look if nlite can do it, then MS can do it better...
 
Ok, 24 bit color support is a hardware example and you don't find it valid.

How about support to view .txt files?

YOU might not like having the option to view DRM protected media.

Lets say I don't like the idea of having the option to view non-DRM protected .txt files. In fact, I want the option to remove support for viewing non-DRM supported .txt files.

There is no issue with application management. If Microsoft cedes to every ridiculous demand to "remove the option for..." then their codebase would grow exponentially.

The issue is your anger for DRM is misdirected at Microsoft. Re-aim at the RIAA and the MPAA.
 
MS is one of "the great enablers"

It's not misdirected... There are reasonable requests, and unreasonable requests... It is MS duty to determine which is which... At this point they have instead chosen to do nothing, and in my opinion that is even worse.

Not adding support for txt files is unreasonable in most peoples opinion I'm sure.... But for many other things, including DRM, where there is a HUGE public outcry.... Well, you get the point.

Instead they choose to do nothing.
 
duby229 said:
MS is one of "the great enablers"

It's not misdirected... There are reasonable requests, and unreasonable requests... It is MS duty to determine which is which... At this point they have instead chosen to do nothing, and in my opinion that is even worse.

Not adding support for DRM files is unreasonable in most peoples opinion I'm sure.... But for many other things, including .txt, where there is a HUGE public outcry.... Well, you get the point.

Instead they choose to do nothing.
Click to expand...


*FIXED
 
duby229 said:
MS is one of "the great enablers"

It's not misdirected... There are reasonable requests, and unreasonable requests... It is MS duty to determine which is which... At this point they have instead chosen to do nothing, and in my opinion that is even worse.

Not adding support for txt files is unreasonable in most peoples opinion I'm sure.... But for many other things, including DRM, where there is a HUGE public outcry.... Well, you get the point.

Instead they choose to do nothing.
Click to expand...

Huge public outcry? Huge compared to what? The total number of vista installations or users or w/e metric, lets not making sweeping generalizations please.
 
Your right, I dont have exact numbers... Although I'd be interested in seeing them if someone knowsws where they might be. (hint, hint, nudge, nudge)

Though lets take WMP for example.... What would have been better... Releasing a specific version that doesnt sell well? Or providing a simple check box in the install routine?

Lets take IE as another example.... Or Movie maker as another, or Windows Messenger as another, or DRM as another...

I dont have exact numbers, but the truth is we have all gone to this news source or that one, and read about DRM, and the vast majority of that news coverage is negative.

MS knows this. But they have the clout. They can do what they want to do. And in my opinion it is unfortunate.

Well, I've said my peace .... I really hope to see support in vlite to remove DRM... I'm sure MS wont do it, but I really hope someone else will....

Have a nice night folks, I'm out.
 
defuseme2k said:
DRM is not a feature. 24bit color support is. I can also disable 24bit color support without breaking the law. DRM is not a feature.
Click to expand...

Scroll up - I already addressed this and changed my counter-argument to DRM-free .txt file support.
 
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