Different Types of SFF

Which are types of SFF? (Check all that apply but only at highest level)

  • Total voters
    48
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Steeeeve

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A member of Wikipedia and myself are trying to improve the wikipedia article on small form factor.

We are having a discussion on different "types" of small form factor exist so I was hoping you could submit your opinions in this poll and perhaps that will help us write the article better.

The article can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_form_factor

Thanks!

Notes to doing the poll:
  • Please check all that apply but be sure to do so at a highest level. So if you think barebones is a type and shuttle is under that then don't select shuttle and barebones.
  • Please post if you chose "other"
 
here are my thoughts (if anybody cares):

mATX should be one categoriy, including Cubes, Micro-towers, etc. because they're all based on the same standard. also, you guys should mention that there are mATX standard PSUs as well.

Mini-ITX should be another, again, because it's a standard.

Then you should have a third for Proprietary...Shuttle, Mac Mini, Aopen Mini and so on. I say this only because they're all different and you could probably have a wikipedia page for each product line, especially the Shuttles and Mac Minis.

And then a fourth category for HTPCs, because they actually serve a different function than other SFFs, and also might need their own Wikipedia status as well.
 
To me, anything smaller than a mid-tower (ATX board) starts delving into the SFF land. On the other hand, a mini-tower and even some of the box/cube cases out there today are a tad big to be called "small."

Like my sig says, if you can fix an ATX mobo on your SFF case, your case is too large.

Like Burnt says, make reference to microATX, flexATX (shuttle), mini-ITX, minitBTX, DTX? but to me, all mini-ITX/CarPC and small HTPCs are part of the SFF family.
 
burnt said:
here are my thoughts (if anybody cares):

mATX should be one categoriy, including Cubes, Micro-towers, etc. because they're all based on the same standard. also, you guys should mention that there are mATX standard PSUs as well.

Mini-ITX should be another, again, because it's a standard.

Then you should have a third for Proprietary...Shuttle, Mac Mini, Aopen Mini and so on. I say this only because they're all different and you could probably have a wikipedia page for each product line, especially the Shuttles and Mac Minis.

And then a fourth category for HTPCs, because they actually serve a different function than other SFFs, and also might need their own Wikipedia status as well.
Click to expand...

I think this is a wise way to go.
 
Ozone77 said:
Like my sig says, if you can fix an ATX mobo on your SFF case, your case is too large.
Click to expand...

i cant agree with that , but each person has thier own opinions as what is considered sff


hugs

Jen
 
burnt said:
mATX should be one categoriy, including Cubes, Micro-towers, etc. because they're all based on the same standard. also, you guys should mention that there are mATX standard PSUs as well.

Mini-ITX should be another, again, because it's a standard.

Then you should have a third for Proprietary...Shuttle, Mac Mini, Aopen Mini and so on. I say this only because they're all different and you could probably have a wikipedia page for each product line, especially the Shuttles and Mac Minis.

And then a fourth category for HTPCs, because they actually serve a different function than other SFFs, and also might need their own Wikipedia status as well.
Click to expand...

Agreed. For instance, there is nothing inherent to an HTPC that means it MUST be small, anyway. For a while, Windows XP Media Center edition shipped exclusively on full-tower ATX systems from HP and Dell.

The issue, of course, comes in when you try to define the catch-all "small form factor". I think the only way to deal with it is as wide a brush as possible.

IE., small form factor is just that which is smaller than the standard factor. Hah! Now you have to define what the STANDARD form factor is! I think I'd just argue at that point what Ozone77 said. If it can fit an ATX mobo, it's a standard form factor. Small that than is SFF...but you really need to break 'SFF' down into smaller categories (as suggested above) for meaningful discussion of topics.
 
We all agreed that we could not agree on this and you definitely can't determine what a SFF is based on case design. Subjectively I would consider a 10" acrylic cube a SFF case, but I definitely would not consider the Bobsled or the Dangerden cases SFF. Every case type can fit under the criteria of "SFF" if it is small enough!

It it totally subjective and based on personal opinion. Defining categories is wrong, until you even define what the general standard is!

Statistically, the only way to conclusively say what defines a SFF would be to take the average volume of most cases out there and set a lower limit.

If you want to satisfy the majority, do some sample polling with incrementally larger cases. When the majority finally votes against the case in question, calculate the volume and use this as the limit. That's about as close as you are going to get.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
We all agreed that we could not agree on this and you definitely can't determine what is a SFF based on case design. Subjectively I would consider a 10" acrylic cube a SFF case, but I definitely would not consider the Bobsled or the Dangerden cases SFF.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have some kind of standard though.

I think what Burnt posted is not a bad idea. Just say mATX and mini-ITX (and DTX) are the SFF standards.
 
I think what Burnt posted is not a bad idea. Just say mATX and mini-ITX (and DTX) are the SFF standards
Click to expand...

Fair enough; oh, and add Flex-ATX (Shuttle) to that list.

If you then choose to put your mATX mobo in a big tower, well then, your PC is not a SFF anymore. Conversely, if you make your ATX board fit in a small box (like the new GT3 box, or stuffing an ATX on a Q-pack), your computer could then be considered a SFF.

Remember this is all going to wikipedia as a reference for people, we are not making a law here

Other thoughts:
SFF cases sometimes have smaller PSUs: uATX, flexATX or 1-U, or plain ATX PSU that are "shorter" than average.
SFF cases seldom (never?) have more than two external 5.25 bays and an external 3.5 bay.
SFF cases rarely have more than two internal 3.5 bays
 
I think anything that is designed to fit (at it's largest) an mATX board is a SFF.

By this definition all mini-ITX are then SFF, but are actually thier own full sub-group (similar to how mATX is to ATX).

Since Shuttles, etc. (cubes with proprietary mobos) are smaller than the mATX standard they qualify as SFF.

HTPC could be anything from a rack, mini-ITX, mATX, full ATX etc. So some may be SFF if they are designed for mATX or smaller, but not all HTPC are SFF. (Do you call that a SFF/HTPC?) HTPC also implies function more than case/mobo size.
 
anything under 25l in volume:

Shuttle X100 = 3,697,830
Silverstone LC19 = 9,228,960
Shuttle SN21G5 = 11,470,000
Shuttle M2000 = 12,066,600
MSI Mega = 12,127,500
Shuttle SN25P = 14,784,000
Silverstone LC11 = 17,502,720
Shuttle SS31T = 18,066,800
Silverstone Sugo 03 = 21,700,00
Aspire Q-pac = 22,827,636
Silverstone Sugo 01 = 23,325,544
Apevia Q-pack2 = 24,258,428
Lian-Li PC-V300 = 24,710,000
-------------------------------------------------^SFF^-------\/non-SFF\/----------
Antec Fusion = 25,792,200
Silverstone TJ08 = 28,227,528
Qmicra2 = 29,532,150
Thermaltake Lanbox Lite = 29,670,000
Silverstone LC16 = 30,706,250 (ATX)
 
i don't buy arbitrary definitions such as ATX/mATX.

the ATX based Silverstone LC16m is less than 3 percent larger than the mATX based Qmicra2.

is one a SFF but not the other?
 
it would seem that silverstone agree with me:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/tech/wh_sg03.php?area=usa

23l just so happens to be the size of their largest SUGO case, so such a figure is very convenient for them as it excludes all its competitors that are slightly larger than 23l, but they are on the right track.

volume should be the prime determinant of SFF.
 
Updated for Lian-Li V350 -

Shuttle X100 = 3,697,830
Silverstone LC19 = 9,228,960
Shuttle SN21G5 = 11,470,000
Shuttle M2000 = 12,066,600
MSI Mega = 12,127,500
Shuttle SN25P = 14,784,000
-----------------------------------------------/\ShuttleSize/\-----\/SFF\/-------
Silverstone LC11 = 17,502,720
Shuttle SS31T = 18,066,800
Silverstone Sugo 03 = 21,700,00
Aspire Q-pac = 22,827,636
Silverstone Sugo 01 = 23,325,544
Apevia Q-pack2 = 24,258,428
Lian-Li PC-V300 = 24,710,000
-------------------------------------------------^SFF^-------\/non-SFF\/----------
Antec Fusion = 25,792,200
Lian-Li PC-V350 = 27,265,554
Silverstone TJ08 = 28,227,528
Qmicra2 = 29,532,150
Thermaltake Lanbox Lite = 29,670,000
Silverstone LC16 = 30,706,250 (ATX)
 
I would be totally down with those cut offs, if I wasn't trying to resist attempts at using metric. :D (Actually a bit of hypocrite there, because I am using them in my FAQ chart out of laziness).

Okay, those work for me. :D There could even be a secondary cutoff at 20,000,000 to designate SSSFF (Shuttle-Sized Small Form Factors or SSFF for "Super Small")

---------SSSFF----------------
Shuttle SS31T = 18,066,800
-----------SFF-------------------
Lian-Li PC-V300 = 24,710,000
---Standard Form Factor--
Antec Fusion = 25,792,200
 
a SSSFF would be cool, but i would make that limit 15l, which is just a bit bigger than the P/P2 series chassis.

the S311T T is actually a minitower if memory serves, and not a classic sthuttle form factor.
 
i am tempted to add another category at < 5l for micro style computers, but i am happy that my current ideas make sense to people.
 
I've been a fan of volume as a measurement but this never seems to hold. You quote SilverStone's website as a source for what SFF is but if you ask PC Design Lab or Thermaltake they will tell you their products are SFF as well.
 
i did note that Silverstones definition of SFF was deeply convenient for them as it denies SFF status to anything even slightly larger than a Sugo 01 case.

that aside, i do believe volume to be the only truly useful determinant of SFF status, and my personal consideration is 25l.

you could take that up to 30l, but then my full ATX LC16M case just about qualifies for SFF status.

to a degree, a volume measurement will always be arbitrary, it is just a matter of selecting a sensible compromise.
 
Just FYI i have updated with new SST GD02 -

Shuttle X100 = 3,697,830
Silverstone LC19 = 9,228,960
Shuttle SN21G5 = 11,470,000
Shuttle M2000 = 12,066,600
MSI Mega = 12,127,500
Shuttle SN25P = 14,784,000
------------------------------------------------^-microFF-^---------V-SFF-V-----------
Silverstone LC11 = 17,502,720
Shuttle SS31T = 18,066,800
Silverstone Sugo 01 = 22,325,544
Silverstone Sugo 03 = 22,464,400
Aspire Q-pac = 22,827,636
Silverstone GD02 = 23,994,000
Apevia Q-pack2 = 24,258,428
Lian-Li PC-V300 = 24,710,000
-------------------------------------------------^-SFF-^---------\/-normalFF-\/----------
Antec Fusion = 25,792,200
Lian-Li PC-V350 = 27,265,554
Silverstone TJ08 = 28,227,528
Qmicra2 = 29,532,150
Thermaltake Lanbox Lite = 29,670,000
Silverstone LC16 = 30,706,250 (ATX)
Lanbox = 36,120,000

The new GD02 with the touchscreen is an amazing case:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=743965
 
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