DHS Seizes Aftermarket Apple Laptop Batteries from Independent Repair Expert

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Have you even looked inside a Macook? There is no chassis for their lithium batteries... the cells are wrapped in a black film to hold them together and glued to the frame for rigidity. You can easily puncture them with a knife if you take the cover off.

    And no you cannot rebuild a battery then claim it is still Apple. By weight you have replaced more than 90% of the original product with parts werent built by Apple. Yes when you put it in a Macbook, it is still a Macbook but that doesnt change the fact that the battery cells are not original.
     
    Jim Kim likes this.
  2. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    By the sounds of things I have more experience with Mac's in general and Mac batteries than you do. I've yet to see a lithium ion cell from any manufacturer that isn't wrapped in black plastic. The battery is original and in most cases the new cells are every bit as good, if not better, than the OEM equivalents. Such reconditioning of parts happens in the OEM industry all the time, a Bosch alternator with a new, non OEM regulator, is still a Bosch alternator.

    Apple are manipulating existing laws to suit themselves.
     
  3. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    I just said they were wrapped in black plastic? And no most manufacturers use mylar and silver foil. So do Apple actually but its under the black wrapper.

    Please stop making assumptions that just because a replacement battery charges and discharges that it is of the same quality. There are many things that go into the design and safety of a battery like Samsung found out by pushing the limits.
     
    Trimlock and DocNo like this.
  4. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Please don't make assumptions that I'm in any way making assumptions because the reality of the situation doesn't fit your idea that Apple would never do anything underhanded.
     
  5. DogChainX

    DogChainX [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,026
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    And here come the Apple apologists...

    Apple would never do anything to harm or mislead consumers................pfffft LOL
     
  6. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    You honestly think Apple dictate import regulations or pay people off to seize goods... The tin foil hattery is epic on this site. Apple couldnt give 2 shits about it.
     
    Trimlock and lcpiper like this.
  7. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    You think customs knows whether batteries are legit or not? Sometimes what you perceive to be 'tinfoilhatery' is actually the reality of the situation.
     
  8. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Gee - this is such an unreasonable and completely convoluted conversation to envision:

    US Customs Rep to Apple Rep: "We found this shipment of batteries with your logo marked out in black sharpie. Seems suspicious - do you know anything about it?"

    Apple Rep to US Customs: "Nope!"

    Except it's even easier than that - legitimate shipments are logged in advanced, so stuff like this that comes in, especially with the totally legit marking the logo out with a sharpie o_O doesn't even warrant a conversation.

    Rossmann wasn't being harassed, he was just caught being involved in sketchy BS. Get legitimate aftermarket batteries and you won't get your orders confiscated.

    There's plenty of stupid crap Apple does without having to stretch to make up dumb stuff like this.
     
  9. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    There is no evidence that Louis knew a damn thing about any 'sketchy BS'.

    Leave the logo on the batteries, Apple gets all underhanded. Cover the logo up, Apple gets all underhanded. There's a common theme here, and it's got nothing to do with a logo. There's also absolutely no evidence that anything illegal is going on here.
     
  10. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Apple have a right not to have their name written on dodgy 3rd party batteries. Its simple.

    The solution is simple for Rossman, but he wants the views so probably wanted it to happen because Apple hate its trendy.
     
    Trimlock likes this.
  11. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    15,083
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    China has been shipping a shit ton of counterfeit Apple products to the US, most of which aren’t sold at spec. It is apples right to stop this.

    It’s not just Apple counterfeit products that are being seized, it’s quite a lot more; Samsung, Sony , LG etc. BUT if you put Apple in a video name the views skyrocket.
     
  12. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    We know nothing about the batteries! For all we know at this point in time they are perfectly legit.

    The problem here is you want to believe that a fairly bright and clever individual like Louis is in the wrong and Apple are all wholesome and righteous. Of course considering Apple's track record and the fact that Louis is not an idiot, this is fairly unlikely. Once again, if those batteries are the real deal or if those batteries are simply genuine housings with new cells, Apple is 100% in the wrong.
     
  13. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,949
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    I am still waiting to see your posts on his video. I guess you are all talk here and no action.
     
  14. STEvil

    STEvil 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,811
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2000
    Is it? You didnt differentiate between whether the logo/text was added due to sourcing from old stock or not so your answer is incomplete.

    Lets try this again. If i buy a battery case from old stock 1970s or 80s parts for a classic car and repair or replace its internal parts then sell it, is it a counterfeight?

    If i sold it as an original part it would be. If i told you it was reconditioned or remanufactured then why would the logo matter?

    We need to know what the batteries were sold as and where the parts came from. Until we know that any opinions anyone has are basicly crap.
     
  15. matt167

    matt167 Gawd

    Messages:
    713
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    The Alternator in my 1974 MGB is a Carquest remanufactured unit from Advance Auto Parts. The plastic base still has the Lucas branding, which of course is from when the Alternator was manufactured by Lucas electrical decades ago. Guarantee that the only original parts are the case and probably the armature.. It is still a Lucas alternator
     
    Mazzspeed likes this.
  16. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    You seem to have trouble differentiating between a functional element of the part and what is simply branding on Apples part and serves no other purpose.

    Thats putting aside other issues like the company being in business anymore and the fact that the part isnt being imported. If it were imported then yes the same thing could happen.

    Apple’s batteries are not designed to be refurbished, basically the only part that can be reused is any safety pcb’s or balance charging circuits. Everything else which is 99% of the battery by weight must be replaced. It is cheaper to make the product from scratch than refurbish.
     
  17. matt167

    matt167 Gawd

    Messages:
    713
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Well, Lucas is still actually kicking around..

    If the batteries are just branded with the Apple logo and are 100% aftermarket, then it's counterfit. Goes right along with the Iphony's...

    If the batteries are utilizing an OEM charge/ pcb circuit and an Apple logo happens to remain ( and not re printed ), then it is perfectly legitimate. I bet you will find Toyota emblems on remanufactured Prius batteries as well.. Import/ customs can block a shipment for review, but that does not necessarily mean they are in the right. It also does not mean they are wrong.
     
  18. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,949
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Where is the cite that the batteries aren't
    Cite your source for your last paragraph.
     
  19. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    It is clearly wrriten on the lithium packs that they are not to be dismantled, dropped, crushed or exposed to fire.

    When you learn how to read English, let me me know (y)

    Aside from that, Apple no longer use hard casings on the lithium cells, they are designed to be removed as is, replaced and recycled. Newer packs contain nothing other than the cells and some wiring to them, thats it.
     
  20. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,949
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008

    Cite the source. Your credibility is non existent so far.
     
  21. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Cite my source, how about basically every teardown in existence? Or you could get off your ass and look for yourself.

    https://www.macfixit.com.au/macbook-pro-13-retina-early-2015-battery-new-part-only/

    Here is 1 example, google if you want to see thousands of identical ones for other models. Not sure what you definition of dismantle is but Apple had made it very clear it is not to be taken apart.
     
  22. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,949
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    You made the claim you show the proof. Don't get mad at me for you being lazy.
     
  23. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    The fact that it's not designed to be refurbished is irrelevant. The fact is that it can be refurbished and that in itself is by no means illegal no matter what poor little Apple would like people to believe.

    Apple have taken people to court over similar practices regarding Apple LCD display's and glass replacement and Apple lost the case.

    No lithium cells are disassembled, you cannot disassemble a lithium cell. The assembly is reused and the cells are replaced within the assembly, the assembly has the Apple logo printed on it - Just like a Bosch alternator.
     
  24. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    What video are you talking about? I am not subscribed to his channel nor do I want to give hom views so Im not going through all of them.
     
  25. Droc

    Droc 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,303
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    I don' really care about the batteries. Apple is a shit company that treats its customers like shit. Louis looks like he screwed up here, but I applaud him for constantly exposing how fucked up apple products and their practices are.
     
    Master_shake_ likes this.
  26. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Sums it up nicely...



    Cry much?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Trimlock and lcpiper like this.
  27. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,479
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008

    I explained import regulations above. That this was Apple products is immaterial.

    All imported goods enter the country in a specific manner, (if legally entering at all), and they get checked, or at least a sample get's checked. I can not attest to the thoroughness of the checks.

    What they are, where they are coming from, who they are going to, etc?

    If they are Apple parts, and part of their supply chain, they come in marked that way with all the paperwork.

    If they are third party being bought by a reseller or 3rd party repair shop, the parts must be marked refurbished, third party manufacturer, etc. They can not be marked Apple as if they are original Apple parts. The same is true for Steering Wheels for a Ford Focus and Seats for a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The same is true for all imported goods.

    Our Hero doesn't believe this is right. That's fine btw, but he also believes he should be able to do what he wants without regards to current laws in which, he is wrong.

    He made a deal with a supplier in China for some Apple Batteries. Because either A. The supplier isn't an authorized manufacturer of Apple Batteries, or B, the purchaser isn't an Authorized Apple vendor, the parts can not be considered OEM and must be marked accordingly.

    They were not marked properly.

    They were seized.

    Has nothing at all to do with Apple, planned obsolescence, or the right to repair.

    Had the batteries been marked properly for import, he would have them in his shop, not in a government impound lot.
     
  28. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    If that is the law in the US, that's a joke.

    The part was originally made by Apple and the components that degrade over time as part of normal use/wear and tear have been replaced, quite possibly with components equal to or better than the OEM components. Where does one draw the line on component replacement and the capatilist concept of genuine vs counterfeit? If I replace a leaky capacitor on a MacBook logic board is it now counterfeit? Should I dig out my pick and scratch off all Apple markings? Taking it a step further, if I fit a non genuine non Apple logo equipped battery to my MacBook is my MacBook now counterfeit and should I stick a Linux penguin over the Apple logo on my MacBook, would Apple consider that sufficient?

    Furthermore, it's not illegal to source genuine parts from suppliers outside of the Apple supply chain where possible assuming the components were sourced legitimately. Refurbishment has been going on since forever and is a great way to reduce waste.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  29. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    While I'm not going to sit through a ~24min video in defense of Apple of all companies, all it appears to highlight to me as a result of skipping through it is that Apple are manipulating existing laws to suit themselves. Refurbishment has been going on forever and now Apple are opposed to the idea because 'trademark'?! As stated, Apple took this to court once before and lost.
     
    Master_shake_ likes this.
  30. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Manipulating laws...jesus

    Apple have a right to exercise protection of their trademark and image just like any company just like Louis can if the roles were reversed. The fact that Apple is a huge, wealthy company is irrelevant.

    Apple are not trying to stop refurbishing. All that needs to happen is it is carried out legally. If the batteries were declared as non-genuine, refurbished...whatever and the batteries were labelled the same to no deceive customers then it would have pass through customs without an issue.

    Stop crying that Louis imported counterfeit batteries or batteries trying to immitate genuine article without declaring it correctly to customs.

    But sure dont bother watching a video by Lawyers who know more about the law in such matters than you will ever know.
     
  31. Darth Ender

    Darth Ender Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    130
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Counterfeit goods are bad. That may very well have been what these batteries were ...and it might have been something the guy didn't even know was counterfeit.

    However, what is probably the case is that apple restricts what batteries are accepted by the phones to _only_ "offical" batteries. ..and then it restricts who can buy "official" batteries to only their licensed repair shops.. So an otherwise identical battery that doesn't get the price markup but gets programmed to look like an official battery to the device is being labeled as counterfeit. Granted, that may not be what they were charged with if these "counterfeits" came with any apple logos emblazened on them physically, this isn't the first time Apple has used whatever it can to squash 3rd party repair shops.

    Ink jet printer manufacturers have been doing this BS for years for ink jet cartridges. I would suspect that apple is doing the same with their batteries.

    If that's the case, then while Apple may be on the legal side of the law, they're bastardizing copyright and trademark law and probably DRM to enforce a monopoly hold on the right to repair. Something that should be fought against legally and ignored by any and all people who can do so illegally ...so long as it's not being pawned off as anything other than 3rd party. Apple can't stop the right to repair, so they are hiding the only replacement parts you can use behind any and all laws they can use. That's their motivation. And it's transparent AF. That's why nobody is on apple's side like they would be if someone was counterfeiting shoes with apple logos on them. This isn't a choice apple has given to people, they've created software checks that lock out alternative parts, so you either have to "counterfeit" or you have to use their repair shops. Quite different from your run-of-the-mill black and white counterfeiting operation.

    Planned obsolescence is a morally bankrupt practice and should not be accepted by anyone.

    The reason we don't see this same level of scofflaw in other manufacturer devices is because most other devices dont get serviced with updates for longer than a couple years (well within the lifespan of batteries) so people jump devices ....and I haven't heard of any other manufacturer blacklisting otherwise identical hardware simply because it came from outside their supply chain.
     
  32. aokman

    aokman Gawd

    Messages:
    731
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Sorry but no, planned obsolescence is nothing more than the conclusion Apple haters come to because its Apple, the facts on the other hand never match up but get conveniently get ignored by Apple haters.

    Apple could easily cut support for iPhones after 2yrs like Anroid but dont. The general usable life for an iPhone is 5yrs, more than double any Android manufacturer, so why arent they being called out for planned obsolescence?

    Apple desktops and laptops get OS updates indefinitely, for free and full software support. Vintage is classed as 5-7 years according to Apples site with replacement support still. Obsolete is after 7yrs with no hardware support which is more than law and industry requirements. Just because Apple dont make parts past this period, doesnt stop other companies from doing it as long as they dont try to pretend they are genuine Apple parts.

    We all know why companies try to counterfeit, its so they can sell an inferior product at Apples markup.
     
    lcpiper likes this.
  33. Droc

    Droc 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,303
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Grow up kid.
     
  34. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,272
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    What?! If I ship my Apple battery to a friend in another country, I don't have to be a part of an Apple supply chain nor fill out any paperwork beyond the fact I'm shipping batteries.
     
  35. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,272
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Sums what up? That they have no idea what the final answer is regarding the legality, as they've stated, or that the whole video is based on the assumption that the batteries are refurbished which was never stated AFAIK.
     
  36. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,479
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008

    1st, that would be a personal shipment, not the importation of goods as in business shipments.

    2nd, I can't answer to what you would or wouldn't have to do in order to "import" your friend a battery into whatever country your friend lives. I don't know your friend's country of residence and their import regulations.

    3rd, if you think that as a business, that you can order a shipment of batteries from a supplier, and not be subject to US Import law, then by all means try it yourself, and find out all on your own. Tell us all if your $1,000 USD shipment of batteries arrives on your doorstep as expected or if they end up in an impound lot.
     
  37. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,272
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    What article of the US import law has he broken?
     
  38. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,479
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    19 CFR 133.23 - Restrictions on importation of gray market articles.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/133.23

    And most likely, specifically, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/133.12#d

    If this guy or the supplier is not listed as an authorized entity, they will seize the goods. It's not enough to say the goods are good, all parties involved in the importation of trademarked goods have to be on the list or else.
     
  39. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,272
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    That applies if the batteries weren't genuine, which per story so far hasn't been proven.
     
  40. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,002
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Apple is actually getting a lot of headache from this. A big part of their income is from ripping off customers by refusing to service their products or quoting them so large amounts that they'd rather buy a new product. Which is the best possible outcome for apple. And they convinced people somehow that they shouldn't repair their products, and if they can't then nobody can. But thanks to Rossmann the cat is slowly crawling out of the bag. They'd very much like to keep it there. So you can bet they have all their greedy little eyes on the situation as it is unfolding.

    Now the best part of this (for apple) is that it is next to impossible to prove that they are deliberately ripping off customers when overquouting them on repair. It can be attributed to the individual incompetence of the "geniuses" involved. But they should have some responsibility for their employees being incompetent. But as long as people fanatics will defend them tooth and nails that they dindu nothing wrong, there is not gonna be an improvement in customer service. Or their getting away scott free with refusing to service products that are a few years old. While doing everything in their power to prevent others from doing so by denying access to parts and information.

    As for seizing the batteries, I'm sure they don't have anything to do with seizing individual packages. But they have everything to do with lobbying to make such seizures a thing in the first place. Customs wouldn't have a faintest idea about this unless an apple paid representative went to them and put pressure on the right places so when they find aftermarket apple parts they should seize it under the pretense of counterfeiting.

    If you put wilwood brakes on your mercedes benz does it become counterfeit? Think on that. Apple managed to convince their fans, that replacing a battery in a laptop with one manufactured by someone else than their approved manufacturing partner is counterfeiting. That's just crazy talk.

    And what is this nonsense about apple wouldn't do anything to hurt their customers? Almost every new model has a design change that does just that. Soldered in SSD, soldered in RAM, glued in batteries, what do you call those if not measures to prevent repair/upgrade. The soldered in SSD even prevents individuals from having access to their data if their macbook dies. Oh and it will die, the numerous weak points in the design will make sure of that. I've been watching Louis's repair videos for a few years, and I'm baffled by how fragile these machines actually are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    Meeho likes this.