Dev: Xbox Scorpio Is On Par With Gaming PCs…For Now

Megalith

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It’s basically a given that the “super powerful” Scorpio is going to be outclassed by whatever gaming PCs will be running by the time it finally debuts. How relevant do you think the Scorpio can be, considering that most exclusives are expected to have W10 support?

…while the Scorpio may come off well against high end PCs right now, PCs will probably have caught up to it and overtaken it by the time the Scorpio actually launches next year. “This is my personal opinion: I don’t know that much about it. I think PCs are growing and developing super fast,” he said. “New graphic cards are being released very often and more often than the new consoles being released. So I think it will put Scorpio on par with the PC is that we have at that point. But I think PC is growing so fast that it’ll outpace [Scorpio].”
 
By the time it comes out we'll be on like a 1180Ti on PC or something. Maybe we'll get the half numbers, like a 1085Ti. I think though that the console will be on par with your midrange PCs, which majority of PC gamers will have.
 
Looks like MS is wanting to console-ize the whole Windows gaming platform. If this thing runs Windows 10 (I have no clue) and all Windows games have to go thru the MS Store then this is a good pathway to that end.

** disclaimer..I have never owned any console and despise them to no end.
 
No, not an RX 480. as its 18 months away its probably the thing after vega, only cut down a lot to fit in a small box with good thermals.

sure 6TF is simillar to RX 480 but consoles dont use the same arch/tech as 2 yr old PCs. They sometimes use unreleased architectures made specially for them.
You aren't exactly wrong, but the current round of non Nintendo consoles are simple X86 AMD SoC. Jaguar if I recall correctly. They have specific OSs but are mostly just the PC parts custom made to a small box.

Xbox is different though as it has its 8GB Ram (gddr5) shared between system and Graphics I believe while the PS4 has 8GB but it's not shared.
 
Xbox is different though as it has its 8GB Ram (gddr5) shared between system and Graphics I believe while the PS4 has 8GB but it's not shared.

I thought the Xbox has DDR3 memory and the PS4 had GDDR5, one reason people say its faster. But, anything they have in consoles will be left behind by PC's.

But wait, what is Nintendo doing with the NX, might blow away the other consoles. /sarcasm:p
 
No, not an RX 480. as its 18 months away its probably the thing after vega,

Maybe not the RX 480, but it will be from AMD and have the same performance - 6 TFlops - as the RX 480 so the RX 480 is a good approximation. A die shrink is unlikely IMO, but an optimisation is certainly probable.
 
What about the planned individual hardware upgrades as stated previously , IE peripherals that you can pop-out and change instead of constantly releasing new consoles for new hardware.
 
What about the planned individual hardware upgrades as stated previously , IE peripherals that you can pop-out and change instead of constantly releasing new consoles for new hardware.

It's called a PC. Man, I wonder who is going to bother with a console with upgradeable pieces. I know for me, I buy a console cause I know it'll be like that for a long while. I'm not a fan of these PS4 Neo and Xbox Scorpio half new consoles.
 
I thought the Xbox has DDR3 memory and the PS4 had GDDR5, one reason people say its faster. But, anything they have in consoles will be left behind by PC's.

But wait, what is Nintendo doing with the NX, might blow away the other consoles. /sarcasm:p

Oh oops. I might have been mistaken then. It's been a while since I've talked the console specs and I didn't double check. I feel my point mostly stands though that developmentally the architecture is unlikely to change much and the OS can be made to work throughout hardware changes like any decent OS.

Nintendo though...ugh. A good chance to really catch up and release something on par annnnnnd nope. Almost positive they have yet another ridiculous gimmick which is why they're being so tight lipped.

It's really quite sad. And yet I'll buy it.
 
It's called a PC. Man, I wonder who is going to bother with a console with upgradeable pieces. I know for me, I buy a console cause I know it'll be like that for a long while. I'm not a fan of these PS4 Neo and Xbox Scorpio half new consoles.

I have/had both xbox/playstation and gaming PC since original Xbox, I like both, both have different pro's/cons. A xbox one can't get a virus/malware etc like a PC can, and majority of console owners prefer consoles because of this and the fact it's impossible to unintentionally break and is more secure all-around. The idea to those that aren't tech-savvy of upgrading pc's,flashing bios/firmware,installing drivers etc *cough* porn *cough* etc can be terrifying as they don't want to essentially lose all the money they spent (more than a console) on account of murphy's law or getting a infected pc that leads to their entire lives being taken over.

There's also always console exclusives, and xbox live which helps aforementioned tech-noobs keep up to-date with buddies and report the few cheaters there are or the annoying little kids that make you want to smack a baby and/or abort every fetus; as kids (especially today) ruin online games, so that hey - you never end up getting paired up with them again and can get them banned and make the gaming community a better place. Just because some might not prefer consoles doesn't mean that those that do can't have the pleasure of swapping peripherals (and trading in old ones) to get a faster console instead of paying a arm and a leg for a new console almost every year or every other year to have it outdated in a matter of a few months or so. I love PC gaming I always have, but I also love xbox live and enjoy kicking a** with gamers that I'd otherwise never of had the opportunity to team up with. Or how about the fact that those that are by default better with a controller in arena-shooters than a mouse know they aren't playing vs someone that IS using a mouse as certain things are just balanced in those regards.
 
It's called a PC. Man, I wonder who is going to bother with a console with upgradeable pieces. I know for me, I buy a console cause I know it'll be like that for a long while. I'm not a fan of these PS4 Neo and Xbox Scorpio half new consoles.

The price isn't quite right for what they're trying to accomplish but I can see the mindset. Halfway through an upgrade similar to say going from a GTX480 to a 680 after 3 years and then staying with the 680 until a 980 hits. Yeah my timeframe is off I don't care, the comparison should stand regardless.

If they get their pricing models good and can make sure game compatibility with a worthwhile upgrade (not just a shitty sub60fps1080 bumb to sub 30fps4K) I could get behind this idea same as upgrading the GPU.

Ball is in their court though on not being shitty about this. (Nintendo new 3DS)
 
6 Tflops? So it's going to have a RX 480 inside it? That's mainstream 1080p, not 4K.
Raw computational processing power is not a 3D or gaming performance metric.
The GTX980Ti has around 5.6 TFLOPS of SP computing processing, and I guarantee you the GPU in the XBox Scorpio is going to be no where near the performance of a GTX980Ti.

This is just all marketing nonsense from Microsoft trying to sell their new product.
This is marketing, not truth, nor fact, aka, Blast Processing.
 
I have/had both xbox/playstation and gaming PC since original Xbox, I like both, both have different pro's/cons. A xbox one can't get a virus/malware etc like a PC can, and majority of console owners prefer consoles because of this and the fact it's impossible to unintentionally break and is more secure all-around. The idea to those that aren't tech-savvy of upgrading pc's,flashing bios/firmware,installing drivers etc *cough* porn *cough* etc can be terrifying as they don't want to essentially lose all the money they spent (more than a console) on account of murphy's law or getting a infected pc that leads to their entire lives being taken over.

Actually with consoles, they can get viruses/malware. Thanks to their built-in browsers. It's easier to put a virus on a console than on a PC, as pretty much every Windows box has a built-in firewall and you can have Windows Defender. There's also multiple free AV software out there. It's only a matter of time until people start making viruses for consoles.

There's also always console exclusives, and xbox live which helps aforementioned tech-noobs keep up to-date with buddies and report the few cheaters there are or the annoying little kids that make you want to smack a baby and/or abort every fetus; as kids (especially today) ruin online games, so that hey - you never end up getting paired up with them again and can get them banned and make the gaming community a better place. Just because some might not prefer consoles doesn't mean that those that do can't have the pleasure of swapping peripherals (and trading in old ones) to get a faster console instead of paying a arm and a leg for a new console almost every year or every other year to have it outdated in a matter of a few months or so. I love PC gaming I always have, but I also love xbox live and enjoy kicking a** with gamers that I'd otherwise never of had the opportunity to team up with. Or how about the fact that those that are by default better with a controller in arena-shooters than a mouse know they aren't playing vs someone that IS using a mouse as certain things are just balanced in those regards.

I own a multiple 360s, multiple PS3s, a PS4, a Xbox One, two gaming desktops, and a gaming laptop. I'm a gamer and I go where the games are at. I don't want upgradeable consoles. Why? Just look at how MS dealt with upgrades on the 360. The swappable hdds had to be official MS ones and they were easily 4+ times the price of a standard hard drive. For what? Stupid plastic shell with some proprietary connector? How about the HD-DVD drive that they released?

As for consoles being outdated, well. Welcome to consoles. They're usually outdated the day they're released and stay there for damn near a decade. PS3 and Xbox 360 were the only ones that were barely above PCs in performance when they were released and that didn't even last half a year before PC hardware was well past it. One of the reasons I like consoles is because of the fact that I know they aren't going anywhere for a long time. When I buy it, I'm fully expecting to get 8+ years use out of it (well aside from it breaking).

I also don't get the Xbox Live portion. If you didn't know, PC games also have online services. Blizzard has a unified system, while most games have their own internal system and not an overall system among different sets of games. Although every publisher seems to have their own online system, that are tied into their online stores. Steam, Origin, Uplay, Battlenet, etc.

The price isn't quite right for what they're trying to accomplish but I can see the mindset. Halfway through an upgrade similar to say going from a GTX480 to a 680 after 3 years and then staying with the 680 until a 980 hits. Yeah my timeframe is off I don't care, the comparison should stand regardless.

If they get their pricing models good and can make sure game compatibility with a worthwhile upgrade (not just a shitty sub60fps1080 bumb to sub 30fps4K) I could get behind this idea same as upgrading the GPU.

Ball is in their court though on not being shitty about this. (Nintendo new 3DS)


It's pretty much a money grab nowadays. They couldn't do it before with the 360 or PS3, as it cost to much to produce those consoles. They lost money on each sale. While this generation, because of using PC SoCs, they brought prices down and make money on each console sale. So if they can shorten down the console lifecycles, they can make money with each new update/generation of console they put out.

What I see coming from this is just crap upgrade cycles. Here's our new PS4 Neo. It's 10% faster than our last console for $500. Then eventually developers just making games that are compatible with both consoles and instead just deal with only one of the consoles. Lower level or higher level. So games run like ass on the older model or games look the same on the higher end model. Developers don't exactly give me any confidence in them, when PC games end up being crap ports from consoles.
 
I know I'm buying a scorpio. Went ahead and just bought an xbox one elite system to start building a small library of xbox games. Been on ps4 since launch but I think I'll jump back to xbox since all my friends are there.

However, I only play games on my pc w/ a controller. Too damn old and too many miles on my wrist and neck/shoulders to hunch over a kb/mouse for gaming anymore.

If they keep a 2-3 year upgrade cycle on the scorpio, that would be awesome. Just EOL support after a few generations or so. No different than how tablets and phones work. Cost is a non issue for me as long as it's under a grand. Figure if I amortize my gaming rig cost I'm probably looking at 500-750/year anyhow. Sure I could theoretically getting better gfx out of a stand alone card, but I'll take convenience over a few in game gfx knobs. Difference between my ps4 and my titan-x is night and day though, so I've kept both and pickup games I want to play at top settings on pc and anything multiplayer or shooter on console (can't compete w/ m+kb with my controller on pc).
 
Cost is a non issue for me as long as it's under a grand. Figure if I amortize my gaming rig cost I'm probably looking at 500-750/year anyhow.
Non issue for you perhaps. A lot of people including PC gamers are price conscious. Under a grand, that implies you'd pay the price of a Titan (2013) just for a console when at that time consoles were often under $200. I shudder to think of the economy if that price is acceptable to the majority for what is oft considered the far cheaper and weaker platform.
 
I thought the Xbox has DDR3 memory and the PS4 had GDDR5, one reason people say its faster. But, anything they have in consoles will be left behind by PC's.

But wait, what is Nintendo doing with the NX, might blow away the other consoles. /sarcasm:p

yup.. ddr3 on xboxone.. i think it was somethign like 50% faster memory, and 33% more shaders on ps4. Microsoft tried to do a similar thing as xbox 360, using an additional (32MB i think) small super fast ram to try and make up for the slower ram.
 
Non issue for you perhaps. A lot of people including PC gamers are price conscious. Under a grand, that implies you'd pay the price of a Titan (2013) just for a console when at that time consoles were often under $200. I shudder to think of the economy if that price is acceptable to the majority for what is oft considered the far cheaper and weaker platform.
yup.. ddr3 on xboxone.. i think it was somethign like 50% faster memory, and 33% more shaders on ps4. Microsoft tried to do a similar thing as xbox 360, using an additional (32MB i think) small super fast ram to try and make up for the slower ram.
Not necessarily super fast ram, but ram embedded directly on the GPU, so mostly a much shorter bus.
 
If this thing does 4k resolutions, I'm willing to bet it either:

- Does them with an upscaler.
or
- Does them with medium/low graphics settings.

Not necessarily super fast ram, but ram embedded directly on the GPU, so mostly a much shorter bus.

Yeah, they went full short bus alright. ;)
 
Non issue for you perhaps. A lot of people including PC gamers are price conscious. Under a grand, that implies you'd pay the price of a Titan (2013) just for a console when at that time consoles were often under $200. I shudder to think of the economy if that price is acceptable to the majority for what is oft considered the far cheaper and weaker platform.

I've very price conscious. If I'm paying $400+ for a minor bump in performance, I'm not doing it. It's definitely a "wait and see" scenario for me. If it ends up looking no different at 1080p, but with better framerates, then I really don't give a crap and won't be getting it. If it ends up being nothing more than a new console to push VR, it's definitely a "not gonna buy" for me.
 
I've very price conscious. If I'm paying $400+ for a minor bump in performance, I'm not doing it. It's definitely a "wait and see" scenario for me. If it ends up looking no different at 1080p, but with better framerates, then I really don't give a crap and won't be getting it. If it ends up being nothing more than a new console to push VR, it's definitely a "not gonna buy" for me.
I completely agree. I have no plans on upgrading my One (I barely touch it actually) and my PS4 is just fine for my needs. Unless the other versions start adding more graphical features plus at a solid 1080p60 I see no reason to care. The exclusives I want are fine at what they can currently offer.
 
So it will have about the same raw GPU power as a RX 480 and an AMD architecture (probably Polaris, based on timeframe), shared memory, 8 jaguar cores and shared memory. That's not even as powerful as most of our current computers, let alone future ones. Custom chips require a lot of lead time to fab so chances are the chip design is already finalized, based on current-gen products.

P.S. Anyone saying the GPU will be based on Vega, it doesn't matter at all. Vega is based on Polaris but adds HBM2 support and more processing cores.
 
Actually with consoles, they can get viruses/malware. Thanks to their built-in browsers. It's easier to put a virus on a console than on a PC, as pretty much every Windows box has a built-in firewall and you can have Windows Defender. There's also multiple free AV software out there. It's only a matter of time until people start making viruses for consoles.
Without hypervisor-level exploit, wouldn't that only compromise the virtualized game image?
 
The important question is will they stick with Sata II or finally have Sata III controller for the hard drive? Not that it matters either way, with M$ consoles you have never been able to swap out drives. Major downfall.
I had to resort to getting an external usb 3.0 external ssd.
 
It will be OK because finally they will be able to dish out 1080p @60hz without stuttering. But they will say its 4K capable, but down size to 1080p, just like they downsize to 720P on current and last Xbox.

It needs to have an i7 + gtx 1080ti + 8-16gb ram + ssd + expanded storage for the 50gb games @ $500-600. However the 1080ti will be $700+. I say 1080ti because by the time this console releases, we will be on the next set of graphics cards.
 
Honestly, I think this is great.

I'm not a fan of consoles (well, games designed around their controllers), but updated versions that can at least properly output the gamut of 4k HDR media properly, disc or streamed, while getting decently smooth gameplay going at 1080p. Hell, they may be able to do more than that: VRR? Higher-detail builds of games, forward and backward (like the updated Skyrim)? I know that it'd get messy, but I'm down with that.
 
By the time it comes out we'll be on like a 1180Ti on PC or something. Maybe we'll get the half numbers, like a 1085Ti. I think though that the console will be on par with your midrange PCs, which majority of PC gamers will have.
Based on past generations, you are probably exactly right. However, in 5 years when that consoles is still around, PC graphics will be multitudes faster. That's always where the problem has been. Consoles need to die in a fire.
 
PC graphics will be multitudes faster. That's always where the problem has been. Consoles need to die in a fire.

I actually quite like the idea of consoles adopting a PC-like upgrade cycle. Assuming that the base operating system and core logic don't change in the future, which is entirely possible, updating the system with more power while maintaining backward compatibility sounds great!
 
I actually quite like the idea of consoles adopting a PC-like upgrade cycle. Assuming that the base operating system and core logic don't change in the future, which is entirely possible, updating the system with more power while maintaining backward compatibility sounds great!

It's an interesting concept, but I have to question how it's going to actually play out. The only reason consoles are able to stay relevant at all is because developers are working with a closed platform. They are able to squeeze every ounce of performance out of one specific hardware configuration. If console development started to mimic PC development, being made to run on a wide array of different console configurations, I think we could see a downturn in graphical fidelity for the lower end skus. If devs are able to maintain their down-to-the-metal fine tuning across multiple skus, then I think upgradeble consoles would be just fine.
 
Without hypervisor-level exploit, wouldn't that only compromise the virtualized game image?

It should only compromise the virtualized application OS. I don't know how intimately the gaming image and the application image work together, if they do at all.

Based on past generations, you are probably exactly right. However, in 5 years when that consoles is still around, PC graphics will be multitudes faster. That's always where the problem has been. Consoles need to die in a fire.

As long all games come out on PC, I'd be fine with them dying off. Sadly, we probably will never see that happen. At least majority of games are multiplatform nowadays, so like 80-90% of games I can pick up on PC and not on console.
 
If console development started to mimic PC development, being made to run on a wide array of different console configurations, I think we could see a downturn in graphical fidelity for the lower end skus. If devs are able to maintain their down-to-the-metal fine tuning across multiple skus, then I think upgradeble consoles would be just fine.

That's essentially it- if the *architecture* remains the same, then games developed for faster hardware will just keep profiles for the slower hardware revs, while older games will just run the same or faster/higher resolution/get back-patched to support higher fidelity.

As we've seen that the current crop of consoles is incapable of running 60FPS at 1080P, let alone forthcoming 4k which is already affordable, upgrading the hardware is an easy way to keep the systems and their games relevant.
 
If it can run titles natively at 1080p without any upscaling, with some AA and 60fps, I'll say they will ahve come a LONG way.

The only thing it will be missing then, is a keyboard and mouse and customizable key bindings. If it gets all these things, even I - an anti-console crusader - could be persuaded.
 
The Xbox One and PS4 already support kb/m. Sadly, the games on the other hand don't. There are games that do, but they're usually MMORPGs. Developers don't want kb/m players to dominate over gamepad players. There are adapters out there that convert keyboard/mouse input into that of gamepads, so the system thinks you're using a gamepad. Couldn't tell you how good they are.
 
The Xbox One and PS4 already support kb/m. Sadly, the games on the other hand don't. There are games that do, but they're usually MMORPGs. Developers don't want kb/m players to dominate over gamepad players. There are adapters out there that convert keyboard/mouse input into that of gamepads, so the system thinks you're using a gamepad. Couldn't tell you how good they are.

I wouldn't be surprised as eSports gets bigger and bigger, with titles like Overwatch becoming popular for both PC and console, keyboard and mouse become a control standard for console gaming. Even the traditional console player (the one who sits on a couch to game) is starting to move towards LCD monitors, large headphones, sitting at a desk. I think there will still be a place for the traditional gamepad (and always will be), but K+M will start to become the dominant control type for first person shooters and DOTAs on console.
 
Ya, I've been thinking of moving my consoles to my LCD monitor. I prefer to game from my desk in my computer room, than in the living room. Maybe it'll help me actually make use of my consoles. I haven't played them in months.
 
Given the adoption rate of 4K TV's in the average household I will simply be happy if the console is capable of gaming at 60 fps at 1080p and has enough GPU/CPU power to run VR with motion tracking smoothly enough that the overwhelming majority (90+%) can use it with out getting sick. The 4K video playback and hopefully good up-scaling algorithms for older content is just a very nice bonus that most people wont be using until closer to the consoles retirement date.
 
If they can run VR, they can run 4k...
a RX 480 or a GTX 970 can both Run VR in a usable way, would you enjoy gaming at 4K on either of those cards? So while I agree that they may be able to run a game at 4K, I highly doubt the game would be visually enjoyable.
 
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