Denuvo Removed From Doom After Game Gets Cracked

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
It's not surprising that Bethesda would remove Denuvo from DOOM after its been cracked because it is obviously of no use now. What is surprising is that, if this story is to be believed, the reason behind the removal might have been a refund clause, not just the fact that the piracy protection has been cracked.

In an unexpected move, the infamous anti-piracy technology Denuvo has been removed from the PC version of Doom. The development follows a similar move last month when developer Playdead removed Denuvo from its game 'Inside'. Did a refund clause in the Denuvo deal trigger these removals?
 
Hey seems like it works, May to September without a crack? If they don't recoup their development and make a profit in 4 months it's not piracy's fault.
 
Haven't seen any cracked Denuvo games thus far, so this is great news for that scene for those following things.

Not that I support crackers, but Denuvo is intrusive and anti-consumerist, similar to all the Blu Ray DRM which continues to stagnate adoption of the medium and perpetuates the existence of DVD.

Make games worth buying and quit giving people more reasons not to want to buy your shit due to the massive headaches involved with playing WHAT HAS BEEN LEGALLY PURCHASED, idiot publishers!
 
I haven't heard of a ton of issues with Denuvo, but I am against all DRM as a principle.

With so many games being primarily multiplayer/online these days anyway, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pirate them in the first place.
 
Xinmosni said:
Haven't seen any cracked Denuvo games thus far, so this is great news for that scene for those following things.
Click to expand...


Seems to be 16 games so far that have had Denuvo that have been bypassed/cracked, if the list is still current.

 
Xinmosni said:
Haven't seen any cracked Denuvo games thus far, so this is great news for that scene for those following things.

Not that I support crackers, but Denuvo is intrusive and anti-consumerist, similar to all the Blu Ray DRM which continues to stagnate adoption of the medium and perpetuates the existence of DVD.

Make games worth buying and quit giving people more reasons not to want to buy your shit due to the massive headaches involved with playing WHAT HAS BEEN LEGALLY PURCHASED, idiot publishers!
Click to expand...

There have been quite a few of them cracked, including Doom, which is why they removed it.
 
DPI said:
Only pirates are bothered by it.
Click to expand...

Well, there was all of the hubbub about them killing harddrives or something a while ago. So I think a lot of people may still complain about that, even if it was false.

Denuvo isn't uncrackable, it just takes a long time. So in that sense, it's doing a fine job.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if by it's nature Denuvo had some on going license cost to the publisher, they certainly aren't going to be willing to pay that cost if the soul purpose for it's purchase has evaporated.
 
Spidey329 said:
Well, there was all of the hubbub about them killing harddrives or something a while ago. So I think a lot of people may still complain about that, even if it was false.

Denuvo isn't uncrackable, it just takes a long time. So in that sense, it's doing a fine job.
Click to expand...

Yep, there have been a few FUD campaigns attempted to discredit Denuvo but turned out to be bullshit. First one being that "Denuvo kills SSD's" and the other one being that "Denuvo kills your framerate / makes the game buggy / take your pick". Also BS. Games that were buggy or had performance problems in the first place were just as buggy once Denuvo was removed.

And now being able to performance-test the Denuvo vs non-Denuvo version of DOOM - once again, zero performance difference.

I couldn't care less that hundreds of thousands of little shits on torrent sites have to wait 3+ months before they can steal the game. I bought the game, it doesn't impact me. God forbid the publisher gets a few months of breathing room to sell the game.
 
Last edited:
DPI said:
Exceptions don't disprove the rule, but why specifically are you "bothered" by Denuvo? Just curious.
Click to expand...
It does disprove your rule. You stated "Only Pirates". Had you said something like "the people bothered by it are mostly pirates" or anything other than a phrase that described an absolute, then you would be right. ;)
 
Spidey329 said:
Well, there was all of the hubbub about them killing harddrives or something a while ago. So I think a lot of people may still complain about that, even if it was false.

Denuvo isn't uncrackable, it just takes a long time. So in that sense, it's doing a fine job.
Click to expand...

The SSD-killing was incorrect because that workload is done in memory, not on the disk.

Denuvo DOES have a performance impact, though. It's difficult to test that because you needed a legit version as was as one without Denuvo. The performance hit in my testing was ~5% at worst (it's different for every implementation/game).

Honestly my dislike of Denuvo is more directed at the fact game development time and money is spent on "anti-tampering", it messes up modding potential, it increases the chance that games will become unplayable in the future, and it can make cheating (e.g., Cheat Engine) a bit harder (which sometimes I like to do with single-player games).
 
Think of it as a try before you buy thing. Most who pirate a game and like it will buy it. The rest who pirate a game most likely wouldn't buy it anyway. Game publishers with all their bullshit sales stats continue to fail to realize this and instead fall for the expensive DRM way of thinking.
 
Xinmosni said:
Haven't seen any cracked Denuvo games thus far, so this is great news for that scene for those following things.

Not that I support crackers, but Denuvo is intrusive and anti-consumerist, similar to all the Blu Ray DRM which continues to stagnate adoption of the medium and perpetuates the existence of DVD.

Make games worth buying and quit giving people more reasons not to want to buy your shit due to the massive headaches involved with playing WHAT HAS BEEN LEGALLY PURCHASED, idiot publishers!
Click to expand...


There are several games protected by Denuvo that have been cracked / compromised. All one has to do is hit some of the big torrents out there and you will see games not only cracked but updated with all current DLC included.

I don't want to use the word honorable, but the cracking scene is purest in that, if these groups cannot literally crack the game, i.e., remove the protection from the executable, it's considered un-crackable and this sometimes gets reported to the media and then news media outlets run with it and report back to their audience that the protection is UN-defeatable. The truth is a little different. There are groups out there, 3DM comes to mind that have bypassed Denuvo with trickery but not actually cracked the game. These games are sometimes not released even though it's generally understood that the game was in fact compromised and is playable.

To me, it doesn't matter what they do to games protection wise. After 60 days, prices generally fall to half. And if not 60 days then 90 days or 6 months. I usually buy triple A titles I'm interested in after they drop to $15 or $20 and by then, performance issues have been addressed, bugs removed, features added and DLC included, etc etc.

So I wait it out and then benefit. I consider this my own form of 'cracking' a game. I never early adopt, ever. I am trying to buy a few codes tho. So not always the case with me.
 
Last edited:
I'm finding Denuvo more and more acceptable, even though I hated the concept at first. I was a bit hesitant to buy Doom with the protection, but it's been a seamless experience for me. I got bored f the game before I encountered an issue.

The never-ending Steam Sale means I don't have top wait long for a cheap, legal copy of a game. Hell, Amazon Prime's 2-week 20%-off makes it damn tempting to just buy a game on release, but after reviews! That's ALMOST 6-month-later-Steam-sale-price :D
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
It does disprove your rule. You stated "Only Pirates". Had you said something like "the people bothered by it are mostly pirates" or anything other than a phrase that described an absolute, then you would be right. ;)
Click to expand...
People usually misuse that phrase, but the historical and accurate interpretation of the phrase means the fact that you are *not* a pirate and bothered by something that would generally apply to them indicates support for the general claim rather than contradicting it.
 
Mike89 said:
Think of it as a try before you buy thing. Most who pirate a game and like it will buy it. The rest who pirate a game most likely wouldn't buy it anyway. Game publishers with all their bullshit sales stats continue to fail to realize this and instead fall for the expensive DRM way of thinking.
Click to expand...

I don't think most who pirate end up buying, particularly in markets where games are very expensive relative to Avg income. I think it more boils down to how much disposable income you have and how easy it is to buy games legitimately. People who love games are going to figure out how to get them, through legal means or otherwise.

My main complaint with DRM is that I don't like to be inconvenienced when I legitimately purchased a game. If I want a game installed and running on all the computers I own for personal use I damn well should be able to.
 
Prohibiting modification is Denuvo's biggest sin. Modding communities keep games alive far after they've lost full support from the developers and/or publishers. It also prohibits playing the game in WINE or Linux receiving a port (depending on the stance of the dev or pub due to Denuvo). Now a lot more devs are starting to wake up to the idea that porting devs like Feral are the way to go with Linux. I'm happy that DOOM no longer has Denuvo for the reasons I've described.
 
Mike89 said:
Think of it as a try before you buy thing. Most who pirate a game and like it will buy it. The rest who pirate a game most likely wouldn't buy it anyway. Game publishers with all their bullshit sales stats continue to fail to realize this and instead fall for the expensive DRM way of thinking.
Click to expand...

Please provide proof. and a few people claiming they do that is not proof.
 
That argument would end up going around and around, since no one can prove whether they would have purchased it or not in the absence of a pirated version.

I don't agree with software copyright infringement at all. Most of the lame excuses infringers use to try and justify their behavior, can easily be solved by simply waiting to buy a game until it has had the bugs worked out, has a GOTY, or complete edition out, and then goes on sale. To me, Denuvo, and most DRM is a waste of money. I doubt they see one thin dime's worth of ROI, and it certainly can not be proven one way or the other. I say spend the coin on making the game better. Use the time spent stuffing Denuo or the like into the game, on making the game better. But that is just my opinion. I know, I know, assholes and opinions, everyone has them.
 
Gorankar said:
That argument would end up going around and around, since no one can prove whether they would have purchased it or not in the absence of a pirated version.

I don't agree with software copyright infringement at all. Most of the lame excuses infringers use to try and justify their behavior, can easily be solved by simply waiting to buy a game until it has had the bugs worked out, has a GOTY, or complete edition out, and then goes on sale. To me, Denuvo, and most DRM is a waste of money. I doubt they see one thin dime's worth of ROI, and it certainly can not be proven one way or the other. I say spend the coin on making the game better. Use the time spent stuffing Denuo or the like into the game, on making the game better. But that is just my opinion. I know, I know, assholes and opinions, everyone has them.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt it takes much time to implement Denuvo. As for the cost it's basically nothing when talking about the budget of AAA titles. I can't find the Reddit thread at the moment but someone talked to Denuvo and got their prices. They were pretty reasonable across the board. The cost of it really wouldn't impact development one way or the other.
 
Mike89 said:
Think of it as a try before you buy thing. Most who pirate a game and like it will buy it. The rest who pirate a game most likely wouldn't buy it anyway. Game publishers with all their bullshit sales stats continue to fail to realize this and instead fall for the expensive DRM way of thinking.
Click to expand...

agreed. if they really want to ensure a purchase, if they ensure multiplayer functionality, people are more likely to buy the original, especially if it's a good game. Diablo 3 haven't heard of this game being pirated yet.

that said i'm not a fan or DRM because it's just a waste of pc resources at your expense, and the instability and harm it may cause :/
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
Prohibiting modification is Denuvo's biggest sin. Modding communities keep games alive far after they've lost full support from the developers and/or publishers. It also prohibits playing the game in WINE or Linux receiving a port (depending on the stance of the dev or pub due to Denuvo). Now a lot more devs are starting to wake up to the idea that porting devs like Feral are the way to go with Linux. I'm happy that DOOM no longer has Denuvo for the reasons I've described.
Click to expand...

Well, unfortunately, this has an added benefit of fairly impressive anti-cheat, since you can't modify the game files.

I agree, I'd still like to see a sunset clause where they commit to disable an older version after a year or so. Some less popular games will never get cracks or mods!

And how long will they commit to maintaining the servers you have to connect to once every 24hs?
 
Last edited:
whateverer said:
Cause it now take 3+ months from release to get a game hacked (and sometimes longer). That's worth it to developers, cause that's where most of the money is made.
Click to expand...

At the same time, the people who would have bought the game in the first 3+ months at full or near full price would not have cracked it anyways. In all honesty, that is when DRM is likely the least effective. It is most effective it if it makes people buy it at $10-15 or less. If money was no object you'd be dumb to crack it rather than use Steam; more reliable download, cloud game saves, proper updates and the like.
 
Flogger23m said:
At the same time, the people who would have bought the game in the first 3+ months at full or near full price would not have cracked it anyways. In all honesty, that is when DRM is likely the least effective. It is most effective it if it makes people buy it at $10-15 or less. If money was no object you'd be dumb to crack it rather than use Steam; more reliable download, cloud game saves, proper updates and the like.
Click to expand...

A large portion of a game's sales come in the first like 4-6 weeks. It's also the time they're more likely to make the most money due to people buying the games for full price. By the time most Denuvo games are cracked the game has already seen a sale or two, that means by that point the profit publishers and devs are making is lower.
 
Derangel said:
A large portion of a game's sales come in the first like 4-6 weeks. It's also the time they're more likely to make the most money due to people buying the games for full price. By the time most Denuvo games are cracked the game has already seen a sale or two, that means by that point the profit publishers and devs are making is lower.
Click to expand...

I realize that, but I am saying those who would pirate a game never had any intention of paying full price anyways. Either they don't want to or can't afford it. When it comes down to $10 or not (low enough to make people give in) is actually more important. In terms of actual lost sales, I think that is the largest area.
 
I'm bothered by DRM because I have shit net that sometimes dies or is too slow to connect to servers.

Fuck people like me right? There are actually quite a few more than you think in many 'first world' countries.
 
Flogger23m said:
I realize that, but I am saying those who would pirate a game never had any intention of paying full price anyways. Either they don't want to or can't afford it. When it comes down to $10 or not (low enough to make people give in) is actually more important. In terms of actual lost sales, I think that is the largest area.
Click to expand...

And when a game is $10 they need to sell six in order to equal the same profit as selling one copy at $60. Ideally a game is well past it's break even point by the end of the 4-6 week period so after that everything is pure profit. The time when something is pirated and shared the most is also during that time because it's the hot new thing. So that is the ideal time to protect the game, not when they are making virtually nothing per copy. Not making money back and making a profit early is very very bad for a studio, it effects their next project and could even potentially kill the studio.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
Derangel said:
And when a game is $10 they need to sell six in order to equal the same profit as selling one copy at $60. Ideally a game is well past it's break even point by the end of the 4-6 week period so after that everything is pure profit. The time when something is pirated and shared the most is also during that time because it's the hot new thing. So that is the ideal time to protect the game, not when they are making virtually nothing per copy. Not making money back and making a profit early is very very bad for a studio, it effects their next project and could even potentially kill the studio.
Click to expand...
those people should work for free.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top