Denuvo Has Been Sold to Global Anti-Piracy Outfit Irdeto

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by rgMekanic, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    Just one day after it was announced that the latest version of Denuvo anti-piracy software was defeated, TorrentFreak is reporting that Denuvo has been acquired by anti-piracy outfit Irdeto. The article adds Denuvo was founded relatively recently in 2013 and employs less than 50 people. In contrast, Irdeto’s roots go all the way back to 1969 and currently has almost 1,000 staff. Depending on what Irdeto decides to do with Denuvo technology, the added resources could definitely advance it quickly.

    Tough to say what happens with this, but I would have to imagine it won't be anything good for the consumer buying the game. I am not a fan of Denuvo, and the thought of it becoming even bigger and hairier isn't something I'm looking forward to. But who knows, perhaps Irdeto can make it more effective, and less intrusive.

    "The success of any game title is dependent upon the ability of the title to operate as the publisher intended," said Doug Lowther, CEO, Irdeto. "As a result, protection of both the game itself and the gaming experience for end users is critical. Our partnership brings together decades of security expertise under one roof to better address new and evolving security threats."
     
  2. timberwolf

    timberwolf Limp Gawd

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    Deliver a finished product at a reasonable price and you won't have to worry about protecting it.
     
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  3. Mut1ny

    Mut1ny [H]ard|Gawd

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    inb4 the "see what evil piracy causes?!" crowd comes rolling in. And, again, anti-piracy measures still have zero proof of helping anything. It hurts the product if it does anything.
     
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  4. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm ok with dlc to add content, I'm ok with micro transactions, but I have had problems with drm myself.

    Just don't make the game dependent on either of the 3 and I'll buy it.

    Dlc for a 3hr game... Well it better be free to begin with.
    Micro transactions, ok just don't make it impossible for a 200hr casual to play.
    Drm alright just don't make the game crash or fail to launch all the time.
     
  5. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Agreed. If I can enjoy a game fully without buying DLC, and feel like it was a complete game, I'm happy. Then, if the DLC adds something worthwhile, (new sections to play) continuation of story that may not warrant a full sequel), or something cosmetic that's actually cool, then I'll happily also buy DLC.

    I'm not really into Micro Transactions, but I do occasionally buy shit in-game. I'll buy fighting game characters, stages, etc. on occasion as one example. Take Street Fighter V. It was smaller on release than is typical with the series, but it was still functional, had an ok selection to start, (and while it could have used more characters and stages) I felt like I could enjoy the game for what I paid for it. (I think $40 or something like that.) Since then, I've bought quite a bit of DLC for it. Not everything, but a good chunk. While I feel they could have had a stronger offering up front, and THEN more DLC, it wasn't too bad. At least the quality was there for what was released.

    However, had they also thrown some buggy mess of a protection scheme on top of it all (if they did I didn't notice) then I'd have a big problem with it.
     
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  6. mord

    mord Limp Gawd

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    Ideas:

    1. Make people pay for membership in the Denuvo approved users.

    2. Monthly premium membership excludes you from the normal membership requirement of monthly colonoscopy used for identification procedure.

    3. Membership requires submittal of hard drive for forensic analysis for infringing materials. Biweekly
     
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  7. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You're giving them ideas.
     
  8. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

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    Look at what happened when Games for Windows shutdown. Look at what happened when Microsoft blacklisted Stardock and other DRM...

    The biggest threat to game sales are the publishers rushing out products and making them online casinos. A great game will still make a money even if it gets pirated. Yet, DRM schemes end up harming legitimate users.
     
  9. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll just keep on not buying games that feature denuvo drm.
     
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  10. Simmonz

    Simmonz 2[H]4U

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    Leave it to a company from the country that brought us Apartheid to want a company that screws people over.
     
  11. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg [H]ard|Gawd

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    Like most companies. They care about profit, protecting the product and look nice for us consumers. Except for EA and Comcast.
     
  12. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    Fuck denuvo and DRM. Don't remember the last game I bought I had to worry about that shit with. Beyond steam stuff of course, but it works and the price is right!
     
  13. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I just think it's really pointless. For all legitimate or would-be lipstick-pirates, just having Steam is good enough to make it easy to buy games, and not feel like pirating. The people who will pirate despite this, are pretty dedicated to doing it, wouldn't buy anyway, or just live to see shit cracked. No amount of DRM is going to deter people with those dispositions. There was a time in my life when I was a lot younger, Steam didn't exist, and I just loved the thrill of watching crack intros, seeing the groups at work, pretending I was a hacker by grabbing 0-day shit off of IRC and uploading to local BBSes. As I got older, had disposable income, Steam revolutionized buying computer games, etc. I just really couldn't give a fuck less about getting something for free. It lost all its appeal. I suspect there are a lot of people like me, who buy games because it's actually easier, and via a few fairly slick storefronts (Steam, GOG, etc.) where there's just no logical reason to pirate. The people that still love the thrill, or refuse to spend money on things, are still going to pirate no matter how much DRM you throw at them just to fight the system. So... yeah... Fuck DRM. It only hurts the real customers. Doesn't do anything to the people who won't buy. Plus, I reached a point where I want to support the people that make the products that entertain me. Especially the indies.
     
  14. djoye

    djoye 2[H]4U

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    Smart move on Denuvo's part. It looks like their product is continually being cracked, even the latest version is reportedly cracked (not yet removable, but circumvented). Looks like the product has peaked, so the sale was probably something determined to be in the best interest of the shareholders.
     
  15. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    "Roots back to 1969" uhhhh what? I mean sure as a company, but not as an anti-piracy company, which begs to ask why does that even matter?
     
  16. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

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    I wonder if they plan to keep denuvo going as a product or if they're more interested in the tech. If it's the latter I'm curious what it will mean for the authorization servers, based on the authorization problems that warner bros games with denuvo had recently I would assume the servers are maintained by the publisher but who knows what sort of ongoing licensing or support they need to maintain them.
     
  17. mord

    mord Limp Gawd

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    Absolutely. I have legit acquired every game on my pc for... 15+ maybe 20 years. The number I purchased drastically increased when steam and other easy ways to buy software came out.

    Make it easy, make it work. People with money will spend the money.
     
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  18. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    sonic forces just got cracked by cpy yesterday - AC would probably be the next to come down if I had to wager.
     
  19. ymer

    ymer Limp Gawd

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    It's easier and more repeatable to use most of your resources on marketing instead of development and creativity.
     
  20. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    bullshit.
     
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  21. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There are three types of pirates.

    1. The one who pirates because he has no income or not enough income to buy the software - they can't be turned into paying customers
    2. The one who pirates for the sake of pirating, who refuses to buy anything for money - they can't be turned into paying customers
    3. The ones who pirate for the sake of convenience, because it is otherwise too inconvenient to consume the content - they can be turned into paying customers but not by adding drm, exactly the opposite, by removing it and any other restrictions on accessing the content.

    So what is the purpose of DRM? It costs a fortune, and it has no measurable positive effect on sales. Good games aren't selling well because of DRM, they sell well in spite of it.
     
  22. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    I took a quick look at their site and they're pretty all-encompassing in DRM offerings. By no means am I fan of Denuvo but frankly I'm a little more concerned about the implications this may have on optical media. Back when the HDCP 2.2 standards and 4k disk standards were being published I did read somewhere about the possibility of movie/discs needing an online connection for playback. Thought that handshakes for HDCP 2.2 were obnoxious wait till this crap creeps in. A company like this might make that happen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  23. Bigdady92

    Bigdady92 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'll put money that Denuevo's assets were sold and employees hired but all the baggage that was Denuevo was left with the company that will whither and die i.e. lawsuits.
     
  24. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    In the interest of fairness, I don't think your three categories are actually comprehensive. There are also pirates who could afford to buy the software, but choose not to because they can get it for free by pirating it. These people can be turned into paying customers, and DRM might actually help make that happen.

    Now that said, in my experience most DRM includes completely unacceptable side-effects for paying customers, and should therefore die in a fire. ;)
     
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  25. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I still do love watching this stuff get cracked. I have no use for cracked software these days as I mentioned, but I love that they're still doing it. I want to see this stuff die every time a new iteration comes out. I've got 300+ games in Steam about 50 in GOG, Amazon Google and Apple libraries of music and video content. But to me, these crackers are still kind of like freedom fighters in a sappy sort of way. :D When we live in a cyberpunk dystopia not too long from now, it would be akin to cheering for the hackers and console jockeys bringing down the megacorps.
     
  26. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is actually the second category I listed. Some might be convertible, but I've seen examples who would rather not play a game, if they can't pirate it. And they're among the most well off people I know. I remember one guy who was my neighbor at some point asking me to help him get a pirate copy of a game. And when I couldn't. He then asked me: "Then what should I do?" You should've seen his face when I told him: "If you want the game that much why don't you buy it?" Let's just say I don't think the idea even occurred to him. But he was flaunting his tequila that cost $800 a bottle. I say fuck these people, they're beyond redemption.
     
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  27. darckhart

    darckhart Limp Gawd

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    "The success of any game title is dependent upon the ability of the title to operate as the publisher intended," said Doug Lowther, CEO, Irdeto.

    Yea, no. The success of a game title is how many people buy it. How many people buy it is related to (how much it gets hyped) how good of an experience it is. A good experience is one that is enjoyable throughout the life of the product. This is between the game studio devs and the game player. "Operating as the publisher intended" is fluffspeak for "I'm a middleman that provides no value anymore so I gotta make up a function and hope I can sucker someone into it." I personally feel most "new" DRM is unnecessarily onerous, opens up other tracking that may not be desirable, and in some cases, willfully excludes the very customer they are targeting. More than likely, if there's DRM like denuvo, I'm not buying, regardless of "how awesome it's supposed to be."
     
  28. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    anyone know the effects steam refunds has had on piracy?
     
  29. Stimpy88

    Stimpy88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I really hope that it doesn't take the hackers more than a couple of weeks to hack the new version 5 of this scumware.
     
  30. mord

    mord Limp Gawd

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    Sadly, I agree.
     
  31. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You forgot the 4th type:

    4. The ones who pirate because they can get a game for free, but when no game is crackable they will turn to buying games rather than giving up the hobby entirely.

    Your 3rd point is laughable, with the exception of games that are not released in your country. But that is becoming less common with Steam and similar services. Outside of always on DRM or stringent activation requires typical DRM isn't inconvenient. I'd rather download from Steam or Origin than use a torrent, which typically offers slow download speeds after the initial rush. 3 years later redownloading the game is a pain via torrents, where as the speed is just the same on Steam/Origin. Not to mention false flags from Windows Defender / other anti virus accidentally deleting your cracks ect.
     
  32. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    As someone who has worked in the gaming industry (developer side), I'll say this.

    I hate DRM. Hate it. BUT, as long as there are no enforcebable laws to protect the property of the developer, then it is an evil that will foster on.

    That's my two nickles.
     
  33. TheBuzzer

    TheBuzzer HACK THE WORLD!

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    No need for drm, there are laws to protect the property of the developer. If there wasn't I would not be in such a big legal mess.
     
  34. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    o_O
     
  35. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's the point. I haven't pirated a single game in at least 10 years exactly because of steam and origin. So that shows how much convenience can mean in fighting piracy. But the convenience point mostly applies to movies and tv, and sports broadcasts nowadays. Give a convenient service with fair prices and I'll stop pirating, it's simple as that.

    Downloading a 3 year old game is not really realistic anyway. It's so cheap by then that anyone doing it is beyond redemption. How can you turn someone into a paying customer when they refuse to pay even 5-10 for a game?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  36. Nebell

    Nebell [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why even put DMR?
    Why not just make games require online connection all the time?
     
  37. NickJames

    NickJames [H]ardness Supreme

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    Because some of us live in natural disaster zones and like to be able to play some video games during the repair period.
     
  38. SticKx911

    SticKx911 2[H]4U

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    Same here. Mostly.
    Occasionally still, I’ll make an attempt to pirate something for shits and giggles or to test it out. I wish demos were still a thing. If I know I want to play, I buy it. Not even worth the trouble. Steam/origin cloud sync is worth the price of entry for me.
     
  39. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    Notice, I said "enforceable laws" (yes, I misspelled it originally....).

    Right now, if some hack in Russia decides to steal a piece of software, then, oh well, that is a loss with nothing being able to be done about it. This is one of the situations which drives DRM.
     
  40. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Or ... wait until it is cracked, because regardless to what numbers show not everyone needs to play a game on day 1. In fact Steam pretty much lives off the fact that many games people are much more willing to wait on until it has some massive discount before purchasing. I'm sure there's a fairly large segment of the "I want it because it's free" crowd that have that same mentality, "oh I can't play <insert game that has yet to be cracked> oh well instead I'll play <insert hundred new games that have been cracked this week>"