Denuvo Blames Gamer Toxicity for DRM Protection Hate

Wrong, it stops you freeloaders from playing for months and pressures some who wouldn't buy early to do so, increasing net revenue. At the same time it has a minimal impact on regular end users, so it's a win win.

But factor in the costs for Denuvo itself, and the extra time needed to implement it. Poorly implemented Denuvo can cause stuttering during some actions like an animation playing or something. I believe Deunvo how has per activation per unit costs as well as the monthly subscription.

Might be why EA is not using it on Dragon Age despite being one of the few companies that almost never removed it in the past.
 
I haven't bought a $60+ game in ages, last $40 game I bought was a physical copy of a console game, so denuvo is the least of my concerns. That said, they can go pound sand. At the end of the day, pirates gonna pirate whether denuvo is there or not (it'll just be longer before they do), you aren't gonna force them to do anything with their money, except maybe pay somebody to break the protection faster.
I paid $40 for Elden Ring, but I pirated it first and waited until there was a sale. 😸
 
I paid $40 for Elden Ring, but I pirated it first and waited until there was a sale. 😸
This is the way.

Most of the time when I buy a new game full price I only get my value in how much disappointment it brings me. Sure you can read reviews, they're completely honest and accurate I'm sure!

I was foolish enough to buy Homeworld 3 when it came out...what a pile of crap.

Or some games are not as accessible as they should be. Alan Wake 2 comes to mind. Great game, but epic store only really is hurting them.

Many reasons people pirate games. It's not necessarily about being cheap.
 
I don't care what people do but be fucking honest about it. The mental gymnastics you people do to make yourself feel good about pirating stuff lol.
 
I don't pirate any new games, but I won't pay full price either (unless it seems like a really good game, no AAAs though). I have so many games I haven't finished, I probably never will. Any money they get from me is already like a donation.
 
Those sound like DEI words, and as we know that's not something people like today. This complaint means that companies are less likely to want to pay for Denuvo due to how ineffective it is and how it just enrages their costumers. The performance impact is very real and was a very big problem for Resident Evil Village on PC. It's gotten to the point that if you want the fastest version of a game, then you need to pirate it. Denuvo is so ineffective against piracy that games with Denuvo will now limit how many PCs you can install the game onto. It's usually five, but if you're a Linux user and switch between different versions of Proton and use a VM, this will consume those five. When you reach past that threshold, the game will lock you out for 24 hours. I can see companies receiving phone calls for their tech support over such an issue.


View: https://youtu.be/-ig4dqozB1I?si=wL5N9bvIlezLN1Ve

The performance issues in RE8 were caused by Capcom using their own ridiculous DRM scheme with Denuvo added on top of it.

People in your example of using up the 5 activations in 24 hours limit are outliers. In some cases developers have increased the limit to 10.
 
This is the way.
Not really. Maybe it is because I have already got a backlog that will last me longer than a lifetime, but I don't see the point of even pirating a game that already gave a sniff of dog's droppings when I entered the shop to purchase.

Even elden ring without denuvo barely interests me now. I might get it on steam when it is on an extreme sale, or may get it if it is released, and heftily discounted, on gog.
 
Not really. Maybe it is because I have already got a backlog that will last me longer than a lifetime, but I don't see the point of even pirating a game that already gave a sniff of dog's droppings when I entered the shop to purchase.

Even elden ring without denuvo barely interests me now. I might get it on steam when it is on an extreme sale, or may get it if it is released, and heftily discounted, on gog.
Elden Ring never used Denuvo.
 
Sorry, had it confused with easy anti-cheat. Could have sworn it also had drm.

Still, eac left it at the bottom of the pile.
It uses Steam DRM.

EAC is definitely a PITA, especially with how poorly FromSoftware integrated it into the PC version at the last minute.
 
The performance issues in RE8 were caused by Capcom using their own ridiculous DRM scheme with Denuvo added on top of it.
Don't know which DRM caused the problem, so I'm just gonna assume it was the combination of both. Took hackers to remove Denuvo to show how much of a performance increase could be achieved. Think of it like this, how much more computer would I have to spend to get the same frame rate without Denuvo?
People in your example of using up the 5 activations in 24 hours limit are outliers. In some cases developers have increased the limit to 10.
Shouldn't be an activation limit. I own the game and therefore can install it on as many systems as I want. If developers had to increase it to 10 then this activation limit has already caused problems.
 
I was foolish enough to buy Homeworld 3 when it came out...what a pile of crap.

I'm still sad about that. And annoyed I spent so much on it. Multiplayer is dead so it was a waste for a campaign that was kind of lame, and the skirmish mode sucks.

To keep on topic, Denuvo was removed from it today. :p

People in your example of using up the 5 activations in 24 hours limit are outliers. In some cases developers have increased the limit to 10.

My biggest issue is if your internet goes down and you haven't load it up in a while you are unable to launch the game. This happened to me once. Not sure if it applies to all Denuvo games.
 
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I'm still sad about that. And annoyed I spent so much on it. Multiplayer is dead so it was a waste for a campaign that was kind of lame, and the skirmish mode sucks.

To keep on topic, Denuvo was removed from it today. :p
Well at least it has that going for it. Wonder if it made much of a performance difference? Wonder if I'll care? Lol.

Might be a good comparison though. I don't exactly have a high end GPU (6700XT running 1440p) so it tends to lag a little at time. Still quite playable, minor complaint.
 
Honestly? I haven't pirated a game since my Commodore Amiga days...

Get the game on sale and all's sweet.
 
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Honestly? I haven't pirated a game since my Commodore Amiga days...

Get the game on sale and all's sweet.

I haven't pirated in forever either. I guess it's mostly because I can easily afford any game I want, but I still only buy like 2 games a year.

I find no need to really spend any money when there are so many great games being given away for free. EGS and Amazon/Twitch weekly free games, plus the occasional games being given away on other storefronts. I have over 500 games I've gotten for free at this point, a decent number of them actually really good I actually have a backlog of games I want to play and I didn't have to pay anything. Also a lot of multiplayer games are free to play.
 
I haven't pirated in forever either. I guess it's mostly because I can easily afford any game I want, but I still only buy like 2 games a year.
Totally. When I was younger, I just didn't have the expendable cash to blow on boxed games. These days, the expendable cash isn't exactly flowing with cost of living being what it is, but if I really want a game I'm more than happy to pay for it. Likewise, I've obtained a number of titles for free via the various online launchers/stores.

Right now I'm kinda hooked on casual CS2 and Deadlock gaming, and the games didn't cost me anything.
 
Then don't cry about DRM.
What DRM? That's a problem for people who actually bought the game. The funny thing is after I bought the game I couldn't login because there was a missing DLC file. I didn't buy the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC yet, but you can't login unless the file is there. So I had to make an empty file just to login, which is the whole reason I bought the game. Then I found out if I mod the game with FSR3 then I could get banned.
pirate laugh.gif
 
Wrong, it stops you freeloaders from playing for months and pressures some who wouldn't buy early to do so, increasing net revenue. At the same time it has a minimal impact on regular end users, so it's a win win.

While I would debate how long it takes for high-demand games to get cracked. If we set my flippant joking aside, I think the hate for Denuvo comes from back when it was really, really terrible for game performance, it's not like that so much now. From the few developers I know, that first 48 hours after release is absolutely massive for a game, it will always be impossible to mathematically prove DRM's effect on sales (there are just too many factors at play to eliminate anything) it's certainly a low risk way for a company to avoid a potential problem.
 
What DRM? That's a problem for people who actually bought the game.

Technically Denuvo is still a problem for those with pirated copies. If I recall most of the Denuvo cracks are actually bypasses, so any performance impact would still be present. The difference though is you can of course run it without having purchased, but it is not fully removed. I recall reading that one or two games had it fully removed.

Though when a developer removes it, of course Denuvo is completely removed.
 
I can't be bothered to pirate games anymore, I have enough to do, that I don't need to go looking for more.
It's incredibly rare that I even have the time to play most games at launch, they would be leaping past the other games in the list...
So if the game isn't good a month or two down the road then it's not likely going to be worth my time, and if it's not worth my time then it isn't worth playing let alone paying for.
So instead I can put that time and money into something that is worth my time instead.
 
"Addressing a question about "toxicity" and oft-genuine concerns from gamers over the use of Denuvo anti-tamper and anti-cheat software, Ullmann seemingly implied that gamers are just upset because the software works, robbing gamers of the ability to simply play a game for free instead of paying full retail price. When asked directly about why Denuvo doesn't address the claims of performance hits to games that implement it, Ullmann placed the onus on game developers to perform those comparative tests, again calling the gaming and piracy community toxic in the response. He dismissed the idea of Denuvo or a third party performing comparative analysis of the impact of anti-tamper and anti-cheat software, citing intellectual property concerns and community mistrust for a lack of first-party testing. At the same time, Ullmann admits that Denuvo has had performance impacts on games in the past but remarks that it's "interesting" that there aren't more incidents of reduced gaming performance. These comments were also made in spite of Denuvo's own marketing materials claiming that the software has "No impact on in-game performance.""

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Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/328030/...rotection-hate-dismisses-performance-concerns
Don't worry, you don't OWN the games now, you just have permission to use them 😏
 
Gamers are filthy thieves. Own up to it. If it weren't for anti piracy software, there would be no gaming industry.
give me a break. tell that to Larian that released Baldurs Gate 3 on GOG which has absolutely NO DRM. same with Cyberpunk 2077. maybe start making games worth purchasing. maybe worth the $70-$100 investment without trying to nickle and dime us for sh*t like horse armor!?

that and quit blowing the budget hiring people like sweet baby to infect their products with the woke mind virus and pass the savings on to the customer? but why would they do something like that in 2024, right?
 
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give me a break. tell that to Larian that released Baldurs Gate 3 on GOG which has absolutely NO DRM. same with Cyberpunk 2077. maybe start making games worth purchasing. worth the $70-$100 investment and then try to nickle and dime you for sh*t like horse armor?

that and quit blowing the budget hiring people like sweet baby to infect their products with the woke mind virus and pass the savings on to the customer? but why would they do something like that in 2024, right?

Also by that logic there would be no film industry. Movies are much easier to download the games due to file size and not needing patches.
 
Never has been. It's copyright infringement. Realistically, it's as bad as theft :).
We (we as in devs like myself) have never been in a such an amazing time as we are today thanks to OSS. I think the more open source there is the better and the less intellectual property there will be (because it will be stealing, aka copyright infringement, for companies to try to make private IP when using OSS licenses). Developers and game makers will earn more, products will be better and we will have more products. Better games for cheaper with Devs making more cash. Only downside is big studios go bye bye....capitalism ftw.
 
I don't pirate any new games, but I won't pay full price either (unless it seems like a really good game, no AAAs though). I have so many games I haven't finished, I probably never will. Any money they get from me is already like a donation.
Reminded me to check humble bundle
 
We (we as in devs like myself) have never been in a such an amazing time as we are today thanks to OSS. I think the more open source there is the better and the less intellectual property there will be (because it will be stealing, aka copyright infringement, for companies to try to make private IP when using OSS licenses). Developers and game makers will earn more, products will be better and we will have more products. Better games for cheaper with Devs making more cash. Only downside is big studios go bye bye....capitalism ftw.
If we learned from Tango Gameworks and their game Hi-Fi Rush, is that you can make a well received game and still get shut down. The games not even cracked, but because it was on Game Pass it got no sales. If anything will save the gaming industry, it will be the indie game developers. The biggest games for the past 2 years have been from Indie studios like Baldur's Gate 3, HellDivers 2, and Palworld. Tango Gameworks was even bought by an Indie studio Krafton who made PUGB. What really needs to be done is for games to have their game engine code open source, like what John Carmack did with Doom/Doom2/Quake/Quake2 and etc. Because of this, those games live on and don't break any copyright and don't promote piracy. I like knowing that someone has made a port of the game engine on Linux without me needing to buy the game I already own a second time.
 
Gamers are filthy thieves. Own up to it. If it weren't for anti piracy software, there would be no gaming industry.
Except there was a gaming industry before denovo, so try again troll. All those "thieves" cancelling their pre-orders because of denuvo, they just wanted to get the game for free.

Let's be honest DRM is a grift, it is impossible to measure it's impact on sales because there is no control, you can't release the same product both with and without DRM, and different games are not comparable.
The publishers just take it on faith, and companies like denuvo just bold face lie to their faces.

I guess in the best case scenario it doesn't loose them money, only PR. Otherwise the extra sales that might actually happen because someone couldn't pirate it don't even cover what they pay out to the DRM peddling company.
and people complain that subforums are inactive...
And if it was posted in the subforum it would get maybe 2 lazy comments and no discussion.
 
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Except gamers are not their customer base. If they were, they would never have even a single sale.
That's where the whole gaming industry went wrong. Gamers stopped being the customers, they became the product. So stores like EGS don't care about gamer needs and wants, just like DRM companies don't care.
And then they go pikachu face: Why do gamers hate us so much? We pay your bills, all of them, so we expect to be treated with respect, not disdain.
Denuvo creator backtracks on plans to prove the DRM doesn't impact performance.

Excuse: "Pirates are to biased to accept such a test".

The problem is: Legitimate gamers have proven time and time again that Denuvo does impact performance.
Trying to prove DRM has no performance impact is like trying to prove free energy exists. It will always have an impact, it is impossible to add invasive DRM without it somehow impacting the performance.
Wrong, it stops you freeloaders from playing for months and pressures some who wouldn't buy early to do so, increasing net revenue. At the same time it has a minimal impact on regular end users, so it's a win win.
OK, it might be successful at preventing freeloaders from playing the game early. But where you and the DRM peddlers go wrong is that you assume this turns freeloaders into day 1 customers. It doesn't. Very few habitual or economic pirates are turned into customers by DRM, they'll just move on to something else.
Then don't cry about DRM.
Only customers cry about DRM, pirates laugh at customers.
it's certainly a low risk way for a company to avoid a potential problem.
Time and time again it was shown that if a game is good and in demand it has no trouble selling millions of copies in a few days without DRM. The only potential problem is the game being received poorly and no DRM can save you from that.
Never has been. It's copyright infringement. Realistically, it's as bad as theft and has the same effects :).
Nice revisionism, all the time DRM advocates were insisting that it was theft. No, it doesn't have the same effect, that's the point. A theft creates a material loss, piracy does not, it is at most a loss of potential revenue. But even that has arguments against it. A foiled attempt at piracy is still a net negative if it does not turn into a purchase. And there is no basis for assuming that it would. Sometimes it can't, most of the time it won't.

If it wasn't for piracy I'd never have become a gamer. Behind the iron curtain even C64s were smuggled in disassembled as parts to get around embargoes, the only way we got games was through piracy. And after 1991 the economy was in shambles, we could not afford to buy games through legitimate channels. A game had cost more than a week's average pay. But ever since the mid 2000s I have been buying all my games, because I could. But if not for piracy I'd probably never be introduced to games and the industry would be shorter for all of my purchases in the past 20 years.
 
Never has been. It's copyright infringement. Realistically, it's as bad as theft and has the same effects :).
This is the argument that the industry used to win against customers who were fighting for game preservation, and it's the same one that Nintendo recently put in the "guide" about why they are fighting so vigorously against emulation. For the former, the industry argued that researchers who access a free online database of old games would be able to play them, and that playing them is infringing on their intellectual property rights. For the latter. Nintendo is arguing that a lot of the IP being emulated is still having products created and sold based on that IP, and that if you want to play games using that IP then you should buy and play their new games instead of worrying about the past.

Does that not sound stupid? Perhaps the copyright law in the US, which was written 50 years ago to originally protect individuals but has been updated and abused by billion dollar corporations giving kickbacks to politicians, needs to be completely scrapped and rewritten for modern technology.
 
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