Dental Office Network

[jeffmoss26]

Wouldn't you need different rails for a 2 post rack? You would want the servers mounted in the center of the rack for stability. For switches and patch panels, a 2 post rack is fine, but I don't think I would put several heavy servers on one.

 

[SJConsultant]

^ do u actually use the managed feature of the optiplex? your talking about that Intel ASF thing right?

i haven't messed with it yet, haven't seen the use, most of time ill just give a pin number for our client and use logmein rescue.

Not quite, we install and use the Dell Openmanage software to keep an eye on the server and workstations. On the workstation level we are instantly alerted if anyone opens the chassis for any reason as well as we can push out any BIOs updates to the systems.

thanks for your consideration and input

If I defrag the RAID 5 once per month, will it screw up the array or affect it in anyway?

The only way defragmenting will affect your RAID is if the filesystem itself is already corrupt. The only difference is that you'll know it sooner than later.

 

[marley1]

Wouldn't you need different rails for a 2 post rack? You would want the servers mounted in the center of the rack for stability. For switches and patch panels, a 2 post rack is fine, but I don't think I would put several heavy servers on one.

exactly, but i was just mention the post units they have 4 post and no sides, open ended rack cabinent. save alittle bit of money if u didn't need it enclosed.

SJ - ill be looking into that Dell Openmanage sounds interesting

 

[AMD_RULES]

and going with a 14u over a 24u is preference. 14u doesn't give you much room to expand if you plan to. the apc units are generally 2u, server is gonna be 2u, 4u for your whitebox, 1u for the switch, 2-4u for the patch panel, then figure if you put the modem, firewall, etc in it your already maxing out 14u.

the patch, and switch will not be in the rack.
The rack will house one 2U Server, two 2U APC, one 1U Server (supermicro barebones for NAS). SO that's only 7Us. Decided that i would go with a 1U Barebone and put four 400GB Hdds in raid 5 for holding backup and room for intraoral video in the future.

Dell Openmanage

Is this something that can be purchased with the server and optiplexes? It sounds great for monitoring the network

 

[marley1]

the patch, and switch will not be in the rack.
The rack will house one 2U Server, two 2U APC, one 1U Server (supermicro barebones for NAS). SO that's only 7Us. Decided that i would go with a 1U Barebone and put four 400GB Hdds in raid 5 for holding backup and room for intraoral video in the future.

Is this something that can be purchased with the server and optiplexes? It sounds great for monitoring the network

you sure 1u can fit 4 drives?

i dunno man, nothing personal but your gonna waste alot of money on this rack stuff.

why do you need 2 APC units? One of the 1500s will run both those servers, and the networking probably. You could get one 1500 for the servers and a small one for the switches if you really want to have a second.

Are you really set on rack mount? 2 Tower servers will be cheaper, and you can then get one of those wall raacks for the switch and patch panel.

Racks are cool, but you said you already have a closet.

I took a look at that Dell thing but didn't get to involved, didn't look worth it to me, but i would need to mess with it.

 

[AMD_RULES]

you sure 1u can fit 4 drives?

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/5015/SYS-5015M-URV.cfm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101156

 

[SJConsultant]

Is this something that can be purchased with the server and optiplexes? It sounds great for monitoring the network

Dell Openmanage can be obtained free from Dells website. Go to the support downloads and choose any server model and within the downloads section will be Openmanage ISOs.

I took a look at that Dell thing but didn't get to involved, didn't look worth it to me, but i would need to mess with it.

Server wise, the Dell Openmange software provides many functions that are well worth it. For example, I can check the hardware status of any temperature, fan, voltage, memory, or RAID monitors. I can reconfigure the RAID from within Windows, check the status of any failed drive in a RAID, re initialize a replacement drive, etc without a reboot.

 

[marley1]

cool i dunno if i would go that route but thats just my deal, reason for that is what happens if you want to expand? easier to load more drives and use online expansion =)

and you sure u want rackmount?

 

[AMD_RULES]

Dell Openmanage can be obtained free from Dells website. Go to the support downloads and choose any server model and within the downloads section will be Openmanage ISOs.



Server wise, the Dell Openmange software provides many functions that are well worth it. For example, I can check the hardware status of any temperature, fan, voltage, memory, or RAID monitors. I can reconfigure the RAID from within Windows, check the status of any failed drive in a RAID, re initialize a replacement drive, etc without a reboot.

Ok, thanks a lot. I'll have to download it once i get everything

cool i dunno if i would go that route but thats just my deal, reason for that is what happens if you want to expand? easier to load more drives and use online expansion =)

i'm not gonna expand my office size anytime in the near future.
Depending on overall cost, i may do 500x4 Raid 5 or 750GB RAid 5 incase i plan on digital xrays. See the point of the NAS is to have a second onsite place to backup data and also double as storage for intraoral video.

and you sure u want rackmount?

yes

 

[marley1]

AMD - the reason for rackmount is to fit alot of crap in a small space. you do not have alot of crap.

You mentioned before that if you had to work on the rack you would have to pull it out to work on it. To me that doesn't make any sense to buy racks considering that the servers pull out.

You will need rails for each servers which are about 70 a pair, as well as the rackmount apcs which are a bit more money. And then with the room you have i can see that being a pain to clean up the wiring.

Every nerd would get carried away with rackmount stuff but i dont have any clients that have rackmount gear. They all have 1 or 2 tower servers in a closet, and a wall mount unit which houses a switch and patch panel. Everything is all cleaned up with zipties or velcrow straps.

So if you do that you can build a tower nas for much cheaper which leaves you room to add more drives.

 

[marley1]

Ok, thanks a lot. I'll have to download it once i get everything

i'm not gonna expand my office size anytime in the near future.
Depending on overall cost, i may do 500x4 Raid 5 or 750GB RAid 5 incase i plan on digital xrays. See the point of the NAS is to have a second onsite place to backup data and also double as storage for intraoral video.


yes

500s are the sweetspot for drive cost right now, so thats why i mention the bigger case size. You can get a 8 port card and then add 500s down teh road.

 

[AMD_RULES]

1TB of storage is way overkill for IO. One of our dental clients has approximately 100GB of digital images spanning 7 years and thats across two locations with about 15 patient rooms. Another Dental client we service, started with digital radiography for 13 patient rooms 2.5 years ago and so far they have about 40GB of digital images.

Both clients average between 100 and 120MB per month of digital images with 12 to 15 patient rooms and 3 or 4 dentists per location. Keep in mind the above stats include digital xrays, intraoral videos, scanned documents, and imported camera pictures.

check with your vendor on the approximate sizes of digital xrays, pans, IO video,etc. Then determine just how often your going to be taking these images on a daily basis to estimate how much storage you'll need over 5 years.

500s are the sweetspot for drive cost right now, so thats why i mention the bigger case size. You can get a 8 port card and then add 500s down teh road.

I will never fill 1.5TB+ of space
I may be also putting the cabinet in a room where i can access the front and back with room to spare. I want a cabinet for the security of a key and lock.

Here's my plan for storage which is probably overkill, but won't hurt to have:

1. Primary Server
A. 146GBx6 - Raid 5

2. NAS
A. 500GBx4 - Raid 5

 

[swatbat]

and why are you suggesting he gets Windows Vista? Vista doesn't belong in buisness yet, thats how I feel. Every computer I sell through our reseller is XP Home or Pro. All my clients that have got a computer with Vista has brought it to us and it nows has XP on it.

I recomended he get them with vista business and downgrade them to xp pro. That way if he wants to go to vista in the future he has the license for them. I see no reason to buy xp pro anymore when you can legally downgrade vista business or ultimate to it. Hell the machines can stay xp pro their entire life. I'd rather have the option to go to vista down the road without buying a license considering the cost is about the same(from most oems it is the same).

As far as the debate between vostro and Optiplex systems I generally perfer the optiplex as well but the vostro is generaly cheaper. In such a small office I don't know if he needs the management software that comes with the optiplexs. Really the best thing to do would be to have a dell rep price quotes on both and make the choice between them then. Both are good systems.

Mind you you can get a much smaller optiplex then a vostro but a slim vostro 200 might do in place of it. Small and pretty cheap. Just get the 3 yr warranty on them if you are worried.

 

[AMD_RULES]

I recomended he get them with vista business and downgrade them to xp pro. That way if he wants to go to vista in the future he has the license for them. I see no reason to buy xp pro anymore when you can legally downgrade vista business or ultimate to it. Hell the machines can stay xp pro their entire life. I'd rather have the option to go to vista down the road without buying a license considering the cost is about the same(from most oems it is the same).

As far as the debate between vostro and Optiplex systems I generally perfer the optiplex as well but the vostro is generaly cheaper. In such a small office I don't know if he needs the management software that comes with the optiplexs. Really the best thing to do would be to have a dell rep price quotes on both and make the choice between them then. Both are good systems.

Mind you you can get a much smaller optiplex then a vostro but a slim vostro 200 might do in place of it. Small and pretty cheap. Just get the 3 yr warranty on them if you are worried.

i'll probably use Vista Business anyways for future support

 

[marley1]

I will never fill 1.5TB+ of space
I may be also putting the cabinet in a room where i can access the front and back with room to spare. I want a cabinet for the security of a key and lock.

Here's my plan for storage which is probably overkill, but won't hurt to have:

1. Primary Server
A. 146GBx5 - Raid 5

2. NAS
A. 500GBx4 - Raid 5

sounds good, if you dont need all that 584 gigs, id use one of the drives as a hot spare.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

thanks for your consideration and input

If I defrag the RAID 5 once per month, will it screw up the array or affect it in anyway?

Use Task Scheduler on the server to defrag the server during off hours, outside of backup times also. Once in a while, depending on what application they're running..if they're running a database engine...you may want to do manual defrags a few times a year...shut down the database engine to let go of those large files.

 

[AMD_RULES]

what type of cpu power and ram do i need for the nas?
Can i get away with a lowend Core 2 DUo and gig of ram?

 

[marley1]

im using a 1.8 core 2 duo i believe, with 2gigs of ram. was cheap. you dont need much power.

could also get a prebuilt nas unit from buffalo that has raid 5

 

[AMD_RULES]

im using a 1.8 core 2 duo i believe, with 2gigs of ram. was cheap. you dont need much power.

could also get a prebuilt nas unit from buffalo that has raid 5

ok. are those NAS rackmountable?

 

[marley1]

no its a square device, doesn't rackmount, its just a normal buisness nas with raid 5 and a few disks, many companies make em, intel has one thats diskless.

 

[AMD_RULES]

no its a square device, doesn't rackmount, its just a normal buisness nas with raid 5 and a few disks, many companies make em, intel has one thats diskless.

well speaking of NAS, as a second option, how would this work compared to what i said b4?

1. Dell Poweredge 2950 with 73x4 Raid 5 = DHCP, AD, DNS, PM Software, etc
2. Two Whitebox Servers (NAS) = Two Identical servers with Intel Core 2 Quad, 2GB DDR2, 4x500GB SATA2 - Storage of Digital Photos, IntraOral Video, and possibly Digital Xrays.

** What would I need to replicate or setup a fault-tolerance system with two servers? (Kinda like the child DHCP child thing discussed on previous pages) Could this be done with software or something?

I am just bringin this up as another thought to bring down costs on the server from Dell (besides the reseller deals)

-Arules

 

[Bean Dip]

** What would I need to replicate or setup a fault-tolerance system with two servers? (Kinda like the child DHCP child thing discussed on previous pages) Could this be done with software or something?

I am just bringin this up as another thought to bring down costs on the server from Dell (besides the reseller deals)

You are waaaaay overthinking this setup. You are wanting enterprise features when you are working with a small office budget.

What you need is 2 servers that do not need to be identical. 1 for domain services such as DNS, DHCP, Active directory etc. The other will be an application/file storage server.

You could squeeze all that onto one server but I agree with others in this thread that having applications on a dedicated server works better.

If you go with quality hardware with a decent support contract then you will not need to worry about replication. With good hardware you can have problems such as a hard drive dying and everything still works until you replace it. Even if you do have problems then call the manufacturer and they will get you the replacement part in 4 hours.

Stick with the basics or you are going to pulling your hair out trying to make all this work.

 

[Methodical]

I personally think you could stick everything on one box and be perfectly happy.

And why the 2950 when everyone is telling you to hit the 2900? Its cheaper and more expandable. Its rackmountable as well.

As for redundancy, assume you've got DC, DNS, and DHCP running on your server, all mission critical to the operation of your office. Get a second server and make it a Domain Controller as well, and it will replicate everything the other server does, so if it dies, it takes over. basically. If I were you, I'd get one server as SBS (I know, I know). Make it the "main". use the other as the backup DC and dental software. There you go, redundancy. and with SBS + a separate 2k3 server, you've already got 5 exchange licenses, and 10 domain licenses. at least, I think the domain licenses would stack.. but no one has told me that. Is it true, experts???

 

[marley1]

AMD_Dude -

Server 1 - DHCP, DNS, AD
Server 2 - AD, DNS, Storage, Application

That is it. Still get from Dell. Dont build the 2nd server, but I have mentioned that before.

Thats all you need. If you want SBS as your first do it, if not stick with Server 03. I personally dont see a need for Exchange in a dentist office, so I would go with Server 03 R2.

You can get the second server without drives and raid controller and get that on your own. But this is buisness grade, spend the extra bucks getting through Dell, and then if a part fails you get it delivered to you.

You shouldn't have a problem with this setup.

If you wanna spend more money go ahead and do it, but we are giving you some great advice.

And you got PM.

 

[SJConsultant]

Thats all you need. If you want SBS as your first do it, if not stick with Server 03. I personally dont see a need for Exchange in a dentist office, so I would go with Server 03 R2.

Maybe not right this moment, but there are other benefits to using SBS:

1. Synced email should he want to do email from office, home, and PDA
2. Remote Web Workplace - Easy access via web browser to his office computers
3. Ability to block staff from certain websites (SBS Premium w/ ISA)
4. SBS CALs include rights for Outlook 2003
5. Cheaper to buy SBS now than it is to buy Exchange later.

I can give a few examples of how our existing dental clients are using SBS with great success over plain vanilla Server 2003 if anyone is interested.

BTW whatever OS you decide to go with, enroll it in Software Assurance. That way when the next version of server is released, you'll have upgrade rights without incurring the full cost of a new license.

 

[marley1]

Maybe not right this moment, but there are other benefits to using SBS:

1. Synced email should he want to do email from office, home, and PDA
2. Remote Web Workplace - Easy access via web browser to his office computers
3. Ability to block staff from certain websites (SBS Premium w/ ISA)
4. SBS CALs include rights for Outlook 2003
5. Cheaper to buy SBS now than it is to buy Exchange later.

I can give a few examples of how our existing dental clients are using SBS with great success over plain vanilla Server 2003 if anyone is interested.

BTW whatever OS you decide to go with, enroll it in Software Assurance. That way when the next version of server is released, you'll have upgrade rights without incurring the full cost of a new license.

Give some examples. I just hate the way SBS makes you step through some stuff and then trying to do it manually may screw it up.

Synced email is a big one. Remote Web Workplace isn't anything special, I like logmein for that, blocking emails can be done in many of the routers you get today or antivirus software.

But give him some ideas./

 

[AMD_RULES]

You are waaaaay overthinking this setup. You are wanting enterprise features when you are working with a small office budget.

What you need is 2 servers that do not need to be identical. 1 for domain services such as DNS, DHCP, Active directory etc. The other will be an application/file storage server.

You could squeeze all that onto one server but I agree with others in this thread that having applications on a dedicated server works better.

If you go with quality hardware with a decent support contract then you will not need to worry about replication. With good hardware you can have problems such as a hard drive dying and everything still works until you replace it. Even if you do have problems then call the manufacturer and they will get you the replacement part in 4 hours.

Stick with the basics or you are going to pulling your hair out trying to make all this work.

I personally think you could stick everything on one box and be perfectly happy.

And why the 2950 when everyone is telling you to hit the 2900? Its cheaper and more expandable. Its rackmountable as well.

As for redundancy, assume you've got DC, DNS, and DHCP running on your server, all mission critical to the operation of your office. Get a second server and make it a Domain Controller as well, and it will replicate everything the other server does, so if it dies, it takes over. basically. If I were you, I'd get one server as SBS (I know, I know). Make it the "main". use the other as the backup DC and dental software. There you go, redundancy. and with SBS + a separate 2k3 server, you've already got 5 exchange licenses, and 10 domain licenses. at least, I think the domain licenses would stack.. but no one has told me that. Is it true, experts???

AMD_Dude -

Server 1 - DHCP, DNS, AD
Server 2 - AD, DNS, Storage, Application

That is it. Still get from Dell. Dont build the 2nd server, but I have mentioned that before.

Thats all you need. If you want SBS as your first do it, if not stick with Server 03. I personally dont see a need for Exchange in a dentist office, so I would go with Server 03 R2.

You can get the second server without drives and raid controller and get that on your own. But this is buisness grade, spend the extra bucks getting through Dell, and then if a part fails you get it delivered to you.

You shouldn't have a problem with this setup.

If you wanna spend more money go ahead and do it, but we are giving you some great advice.

And you got PM.

well i'm still deciding on which company for the second server, probably another dell, but here's what I was thinking for a two server deal:

1. Server for DHCP, DNS, AD, PM Software (storage of PM data, word documents, and excel files only) - Dell Poweredge 2900 (rackmount 5U) - SAS Drives
2. Server for storage of media such as Digital Photography, intraoral video, xrays. (NO PM software data or anything else that would be stored on the first server) - Dell Poweredge or Whitebox Supermicro 1U - SATA2 drives

I figured for the pm software which is the most crucial part of the network, SAS drives would be good for performance, and for the storage server, SATA2 low cost drives would allow for a large storage capacity. I do think the idea Marley1 suggested for getting a second server and putting my own drives and such in it isn't a bad idea, but i'm still deciding if for that server, it would just be easier to build a server with redundant psu, and replace the low cost drives if they fail; although I do know with a warranty through dell, i can get a replacement for free. It all really depends on the cost. I'll have to decide on that...

 

[Methodical]

SAS drives are a waste in your case. a quad core processor is a waste. your serving 6 computers, most of which will be idle. Your main "task" for setting up the whole network is merely data storage, not high-speed at that. Certainly nothing that merits SAS.

And btw, SBS is $300 cheaper than vanilla server 2k3. CAL's are more expensive however (because they also include cals for SQL server and exchange).

If your not going to do email, which I agree with an office that small you shouldn't, go for plain server 2k3.

Get two 2900's. Cheap em down, except for ram (4GB!). don't bother with two processors. one dual-core will serve you fine. Outfit both with 3 Sata drives and raid5 them. Viola, storage is taken care of.

Oh whats that? what about future expansion? In that case you've got another 9 hot-swap drive bays to fill up at your leisure. Better to buy it later and pay future prices than to have it now and never use space you pay out the nose for.

Whats that? you need more processing power? Call dell and drop another one in.

Whats that? you need more memory? Populate any of the 12 other FB-DIMM banks on the motherboard...

But guess what, if you do this, you're not going to need to do any of those what-if's. Your servers will spend 99% of their time idle doing nothing. The biggest and most cpu intensive process they will run is nightly backups. I could almost guarantee you wouldn't notice the difference between a couple of 2900's and a couple of 3 year old pentium 4's.

I personally prefer not to run internet through my sbs server. Its set up on the inside as the DHCP server. Port forwarding is done at the router, and content filtering via opendns.

two servers that are the same would be sweet, IMHO. Set up DFS and have them completely redundant. Dont bother putting money into redundant power supplies.

 

[AMD_RULES]

****How is something like this? This is just for DHCP, DNS, AD, PM Software, Word, Excel.****
PowerEdge 2900 III
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® E5410, 2x6MB Cache, 2.33GHz, 1333MHz FSB
Operating System Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard x64 Edition with SP2,Includes 5 CALs
Additional Processor Quad Core Intel® Xeon® E5410, 2x6MB Cache, 2.33GHz, 1333MHz FSB
Memory 4GB 667MHz (4x1GB), Dual Ranked DIMMs
Keyboard No Keyboard Option
TCP/IP Offload Engine Enablement Broadcom TCP/IP Offload Engine Not Enabled
Primary Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
Primary Controller PERC 6/i Integrated Controller Card
Floppy Drive No Floppy Drive
Mouse No Mouse Option
Network Adapter Dual Embedded Broadcom® NetXtreme II 5708 Gigabit Ethernet NIC
CD/DVD Drive 48X IDE CD-RW/DVD ROM Drive
Bezel Bezel for Rack Configuration
Operating System Addition 10-pack of Windows® Server 2003 User CALs (Standard or Enterprise)
Documentation Electronic Documentation and OpenManage CD Kit
2nd Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
Hard Drive Configuration Integrated SAS/SATA RAID 5, PERC 6/i Integrated
Chassis Configuration Rack Chassis with Sliding Rapid/Versa Rails, Universal
Hardware Support Services 3Yr SILVER ENTERPRISE SUPPORT: 7x24 HW/SW, NBD Onsite
Installation Support Services No Installation Assessment
Power Supply Redundant Power Supply with Dual Cords
4th Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
5th Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
6th Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
3rd Hard Drive 73GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in HotPlug Hard Drive
Additional Documentation PERC6 English Documentation


Still deciding on the Storage Server (NAS). I think building it may be cheaper than buying another dell server, although I could be wrong when buying from a reseller.

 

[SJConsultant]

Give some examples. I just hate the way SBS makes you step through some stuff and then trying to do it manually may screw it up.

Keep in mind the following examples are from clients that have 15 to 20 computers in their respective locations.

Example one:

One of our clients uses an "info" email address that drops to a public folder, from there one or more receptionist staff can check the email and respond as the "info" address.

Receptionist staff do not need to move from their workstations, nor do they need to log out of their email account just to check the "info" address and since their outgoing responses are from "info" you don't need to track down a receptionist to see if someone responded to an email.

Example two
Certain staff are "on call" for after hours emergency calls. They use remote web workplace to log into a specific virtual XP workstation and they can schedule patients for emergencies so long as the on call person has access to IE and an internet connection.

Example Three
One of our Dental clients now has 3 locations and email is used to ensure timely delivery of information to all staff. Since Exchange is at the main office, users can either log directly into a workstation and use Outlook to check their email, or they can simply log into OWA from any office and get their email.

Example Four
Having Exchange onsite is you don't need to worry about HIPAA compliance for your "internal" email communications traveling on the internet since all users access to email is encrypted in some manner. The only compliance you need to worry about is when staff send information "outside" of your organization.

Synced email is a big one. Remote Web Workplace isn't anything special, I like logmein for that,

Using RWW means staff are not required to remember another set of usernames and passwords and more notable is the fact that you can have multiple remote user access to internal machines.

While technically yes you could use logmein, why pay for something when you can get it as part of the package?

blocking emails can be done in many of the routers you get today or antivirus software.

I never mentioned in my previous post about blocking emails. ISA can be used to block staff from visiting websites like myspace, facebook, youtube. etc. ISA can track internet usage via username, routers can't. In an office environment where multiple staff use the same set of computers, tracking internet usage via username becomes required in order to determine who is doing what and when.

Again ISA is built into SBS, no need for any software subscriptions to block content. Content can be controlled on a per PC, per user, or a combination of both. Routers simply can't compete in that realm.

But if you want to do spam filtering, then I'd suggest Vamsoft ORF for a meager $199. Antivirus can be and should be done at the Server level with an Exchange aware AV software such as NOD32 and again at the desktop level.

Quite frankly, having AV software on a router simply means you may not get infected via the internet, but it doesn't do anything to protect your machines from inside threats such as infected laptops, CDs, thumbdrives, etc.

We could go on and on about how to accomplish certain tasks with various hardware and software, however, from a business purchasing perspective, you want to buy a "solution" that you can grow into with minimal hassle and expense. It's not about buying something for now, its about what your doing now and what could you do in the next 3 to 5 years. Too many times we see businesses being talked into buying "now" solutions without any regard for the future. Ultimately, those businesses wind up spending twice what was necessary.

Since AMD_Rules is the dentist and a computer enthusiast, he has to decide what is important to him now and what he thinks he may need in the future. From what I have read so far, most people are talking about the hardware instead of finding out more of his business needs and requirements in the near to distant future to accurately make a determination of what OS or configuration of hardware and software his business needs.

Recommendations should be made based on the merits of the business requirements, to which only AMD_Rules knows.

 

[marley1]

good uses, i messed up my post, i meant you can block websites via most routers/firewalls and in most antivirus software.

I think ISA would be a big learning curve for him, especially maintaining ISA/Exchange.

I just picked up a Freedom9 FreeGuard 100 for my racks, its got spam protection, anti virus protection built in. So somewhat covered for that, but I am using GFI Mail Essentials for better spam protection on the Exchange box.

AMD_Dude - That server looks good, but previous responses are still there, Quad Core isn't really necessary, and 6 drives really needed? If this server isn't handling data why the need for all of that? 4 drives, 3 + 1 hot spare in Raid 5. If you don't need all that space downgrade both number of drives and size of drives. As far as your second server goes, you probably wont save that much money when you factor in warranty. You can look at the Poweredge Essential, get a single Dual Core Xeon, 2GB or ram, and then pick up the raid card and drives seperately. Or can look in the Dell Outlet, or etc etc

 

[swatbat]

Get two 2900's. Cheap em down, except for ram (4GB!). don't bother with two processors. one dual-core will serve you fine. Outfit both with 3 Sata drives and raid5 them. Viola, storage is taken care of.

I personally prefer not to run internet through my sbs server. Its set up on the inside as the DHCP server. Port forwarding is done at the router, and content filtering via opendns.

I tend to agree with you on the sas drives but I would go with a single quad core chip personaly as they are not that much more then a dual core. Chances are it will be overkill yes but I would rather overbuild a little then have to upgrade sooner down the road. The dual servers would be a very strong setup if the OP wanted to go that route. I agree with the port forwarding at the router instead of using sbs for it.

****How is something like this? This is just for DHCP, DNS, AD, PM Software, Word, Excel.****
PowerEdge 2900 III
........

Still deciding on the Storage Server (NAS). I think building it may be cheaper than buying another dell server, although I could be wrong when buying from a reseller.

Very strong setup. Pretty much overkill though. Also don't forget backup software, antivirus with managment of the workstations, etc for the server. Really I would go with a single quad core unless you get a real good deal for running 2 of them. Server just doesn't need that much power. Dual power supplies are nice and I recomend it for the cost.

What type of HD setup were you planning with the 6 drives? All in a single raid with a hotspare, dual raid 5's, raid 1 and raid 5(which I would recomend), raid 10 etc? Personaly I would prob drop to sata to save the money but as SJ said it is all really up to you.

Depending on how far away from the office you live you might want to consider a drac card for the server. Pretty much you could get into the server even if it messes up shutting down or something without having to drive to the office. These are really nice but depending on how you are setup it may not be needed.

One thing to consider as well if you want a nas maybe get a real low end 2900 and use that. Hell you can buy the drive rails seperate and be responsible for your own drives if you really wanted to. The thing with this is if you main server goes down for hardware issues you could move the drives over to the second box and have you main systems up and running instead of waiting for dell to get you a part. Once again in your case this may be real overkill as you can use paper to track everything if the systems are down.

 

[AMD_RULES]

Since AMD_Rules is the dentist and a computer enthusiast, he has to decide what is important to him now and what he thinks he may need in the future. From what I have read so far, most people are talking about the hardware instead of finding out more of his business needs and requirements in the near to distant future to accurately make a determination of what OS or configuration of hardware and software his business needs.

Recommendations should be made based on the merits of the business requirements, to which only AMD_RULES knows.

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I really appreciated it. Learned a lot from it.

As far as email, remote access, for my office, I will be the only one who needs remote access incase I need to alter the appointment book or edit some digital photos via a laptop. A VPN allows for remote access, correct? This is something that can be setup through my firewall?

Do you think 73GB 15K SAS x 6 RAID 5 is enough space for the PM Software and its data, word documents? Photos, video, and larger media files will be stored on a separate NAS Server with SATA2 drives...

As far as desktops go, i have the covered. I know everyone suggested Dell Optiplex and Vostros, but i may be buying a different brand. The primary server will definitely be a Dell Poweredge.

The Switches, two HP 22 Port Gigabit auto-sensing switches.

Firewall....can't decide. Most likely a Sonicwall. Any suggestions? I would like rackmount.

Wireless: Decided against it.

Patch Panel and Cat6 infrastructure = I have this covered. I have pulled Cat6 b4 at my home, but I will be having Blackbox pulling my cabling at the office (www.blackbox.com)

Email - No Need

Computer Hardware will be as follows:

1. One Laptop with Docking station (needs remote access from home to office)
2. Two Desktops with one 20" and one 22" Monitor (two monitors per PC)
3. One Desktop for front desk reception.

(May setup a spare desktop i have to display digital photos on a monitor in waiting room)

Ya, it's a small office. I have three ops, but only going to deploy two systems. One room is used by a hygentist. I rarely use the room. Speed is key

Any other inputs, comments, suggestions will be looked at and delt with accordingly

AMD_RULES

 

[swatbat]

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I really appreciated it. Learned a lot from it.

As far as email, remote access, for my office, I will be the only one who needs remote access incase I need to alter the appointment book or edit some digital photos via a laptop. A VPN allows for remote access, correct? This is something that can be setup through my firewall?

Do you think 73GB 15K SAS x 6 RAID 5 is enough space for the PM Software and its data, word documents? Photos, video, and larger media files will be stored on a separate NAS Server with SATA2 drives...

As far as desktops go, i have the covered. I know everyone suggested Dell Optiplex and Vostros, but i may be buying a different brand. The primary server will definitely be a Dell Poweredge.

The Switches, two HP 22 Port Gigabit auto-sensing switches.

Firewall....can't decide. Most likely a Sonicwall. Any suggestions? I would like rackmount.

Wireless: Decided against it.

Patch Panel and Cat6 infrastructure = I have this covered. I have pulled Cat6 b4 at my home, but I will be having Blackbox pulling my cabling at the office (www.blackbox.com)

Email - No Need

Computer Hardware will be as follows:

1. One Laptop with Docking station (needs remote access from home to office)
2. Two Desktops with one 20" and one 22" Monitor (two monitors per PC)
3. One Desktop for front desk reception.

(May setup a spare desktop i have to display digital photos on a monitor in waiting room)

Ya, it's a small office. I have three ops, but only going to deploy two systems. One room is used by a hygentist. I rarely use the room. Speed is key

Any other inputs, comments, suggestions will be looked at and delt with accordingly

AMD_RULES

You can remote into an office machine really in 2 different ways. With both ways you need to turn on remote desktop on the machine in question. One way is to open a port in the router for the machine. Default remote desktop port is 3389 and you can either change it on the machine or if the router supports port forwarding use that. IE you have the desktop on say 172.30.1.50 with the standard remote access port of 3389. In the router you would forward the port of your choice to that machine. Ie port 3400 if forwarded to port 3389 on ip 172.30.1.50. To get to your machine you would type externalip:3400 into the remote desktop connection software at home. If you don't have a static ip at the office you can tie a domain to no-ip or simular server that will keep the domain pointing to your ip. It is done either by the router updating no-ip's records or by a small program that you would run on the server or anyworkstation in the office.

Other option would be via vpn. With this you would either have the router run as a vpn server or use the one built into 2003. And no you don't need to have 2 nics in the server for vpn access like some sites say. Pretty much if you did it via the server(which would allow you to use your domain username and password for the vpn) you would forward port 1723 to the servers static ip address and run the vpn wizard on the server. You would then be able to log into the vpn and then open up your remote desktop connection and remote into the system either by its name or by its ipaddress. Your choice although I would still give the machine a static ip address.

I would think your hd config would be fine. I'd consider ditching the nas and just running larger hard drives in the main server if you are worried about it though. Cheaper and will work fine for your setup. The HP switches are good and should work fine for you. With the desktops anyones will really do just the vostros are nice and cheap and the optiplexs are very good machines. Plus you might be able to get some more off ordering all of it through a rep.

As far as routers go I know a few people that love the sonicwalls. Generaly they are pretty good but I couldn't stand the mcafee virus scanning that they use on the ones that include virus scanning. Personaly I would say something like a cisco 871 would be the way to go but it is not rack mountable. Maybe throw it on a shelf in the rack?

 

[Methodical]

the 73GB 15k SAS drives are super-duper-overkill, IMHO.

I just specced out a 2900
quad core (its way cheap now, wow!) e5320
4GB
PERC card
3 500GB sata drives
server 2003 + 5 more CALs
3 year silver support


Starting Price $4,931
Instant Savings $1,482
Subtotal $3,449

Thats an awesome deal (cause its 30% off right now!). rather than spend twice that on one computer, it's much much much better to spend this on two equal computers.

 

[marley1]

Anyone else notice how we went from 6 computers to now 3 or 4?

AMD - Everything is way overkill. You do not need anything like this for what you are describing. Even at 6 we were talking overkill, but now you mention 3 and 1 laptop(on/off). The secretary will probably be using the computer more then anyone in terms of resources or load.

So I am real bored and I did a bit of work lol...................... BORED

Here goes

PowerEdge 1900
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® 5130, 4MB Cache, 2.00GHz, 1333MHz FSB
Microsoft® Small Business Server 2003 R2 with SP2, Standard Edition
Additional Processor Single Processor only
Memory 4GB 667MHz (4x1GB), Dual Ranked Fully Buffered DIMMs
CD/DVD Drive 48X IDE CD-RW/DVD ROM Drive
Primary Controller PERC 5/i, PCI-Express, Integrated Controller Card
Primary Hard Drive 500GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
2nd Hard Drive 500GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
3rd Hard Drive 500GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
4th Hard Drive 500GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
Removable Disk and Tape Drives RD1000, Internal SATA Drive Bay (Purchase Media separately below)
Media for Removable Disk (RD1000) and Tape Backup RD1000 Internal Removable Hard Disk for RD1000, 300GB Native/ 500GB Comp
Tape Backup Software Symantec Backup Exec v11d Small Business Server Suite

Uninterrupted Power Supply Dell 1500VA Uninterruptible Power Supply, Stand Alone, 120v
--------------

OptiPlex 755 Small Form Factor
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6550 (2.33GHz, 4M, VT, 1333MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English
2GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM,667MHz, (2 DIMM)

Dell 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen, Adjustable Stand, VGA/DVI
Dell 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen, Adjustable Stand, VGA/DVI

256MB ATI Radeon 2400 XT, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA (TV-out), low profile
160GB SATA 3.0Gb/s and 8MB DataBurst Cache™
24X Slimline CDRW/DVD Combo, Roxio Creator™ Cyberlink Power DVD™
Speakers No Speaker, OptiPlex

Productivity Software Microsoft® Office 2007 Basic and Adobe Acrobat 8.1 STD

APC Back-UPS ES 750VA with Phone and Coax Protection

--------------------------

Switch:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bccwgk1&s=bsd

-------------------------

Firewall: I just picked this up for a trial run, so far looks really powerful for the price. I can't give my full recommendation yet on it since i've only ran it a day, but it has built in spam protection, anti virus, unlimited licenses. I will be working with it more this week, creating vlan and all the firewall stuff for Exchange/BES setup. I think they are sold for around $500 or something, I got a demo model for cheaper but its not for resale equipment. Can also do redundant wan. Or could get a similar unit from Sonicwall TZ170, or something
http://www.freedom9.com/products/product.php?p=28

Thats all you need man. Anything else is totally overkill. I spec'd up the desktops and you can save a bit on those, but I really think getting 2 servers and a rack is crazy. With the money you save you can get yourself some used rack equipment at your house to play around with

You mentioned previously about not wanting SBS 2003, but in your case I think its worth it. The upgrade however is your choice. Again may want to get Server 64bit if your software works with it.

Put the server in the room with the connection and patch, do home runs, put the sucker on the floor with a monitor and keyboard/mouse next to it and be done. Later down the road if you need space either add another drive, or pick up something else. If you want to add another processor if the software gets demanding, eBay one and set.

Raid 5 nets you 1TB with 1 drive for hot spare. If a drive happens to fail, the other one is taken in and rebuilt. Get the tape somewhere cheaper for the backup medium. And the amount of em depends on how you want to backup. You can do daily incremental if you want and recycle every week, I dunno how careful you need to be with it, so its your choice. I haven't used the Backup Exec since it has been taken over, but swatbat mentioned it and it should be decent. Can also use NTBackup built into Windows as a scheduled task. If you want you could look into also using some other utility to backup to your own personal computer at the house (but I don't think its needed).

Antivirus software isn't gonna be worth it for a server version. Throw on a copy of Nod32 or Trend Micro on the machines. A 3 pack of keys for Trend is 59 bucks. Thats cheap to maintain.

You got battery backups for each machine, and for the workstations I figured you'd want to put them out of the way so I configured with the small form factor. Grab a wireless access point if you want. Make sure to secure it, and make sure folder security is configured so they have to be on the domain to access.

For remote access, you can setup a VPN connection that would get you access to the devices and files. But to remote in and see a desktop, you could use RDP with a dynamic dns service like no-ip if you have dynamic isp ip or a dns name if you have static ip from the ISP. Could also use Logmein which I use all the time.

$3,835.36 for Server, APC, Server 03, Backup software, RD1000 w/ 1tape(get rest cheaper).
$189 for switch
$500 for router
$6,044.40 for 3 desktops

Total: $10568.76

Damn, that was a long post.

 

[swatbat]

marley1's setup is pretty good although I don't recomend using standalone av. I recomend a network version.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I don't recomend using standalone av. I recomend a network version.

Same here..ease of maintenance and license renewals..get a network managed version. If I recall, original network is 15 machines? Get a centrally managed network version for 15 nodes...done. Usually comes out less expensive to run with a full package...than go individually.

I also maintain going 15k SAS on the server drives....dental software, with its images....wants some disk performance.

 

[marley1]

Same here..ease of maintenance and license renewals..get a network managed version. If I recall, original network is 15 machines? Get a centrally managed network version for 15 nodes...done. Usually comes out less expensive to run with a full package...than go individually.

I also maintain going 15k SAS on the server drives....dental software, with its images....wants some disk performance.

read few posts up, its 3 machines + server + occasional laptop. dont think it would be worth it for netwotk version, but i dont remember that price u gave for nod32

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

read few posts up, its 3 machines + server + occasional laptop. dont think it would be worth it for netwotk version, but i dont remember that price u gave for nod32

Down to 4.5 now ....k, went back..on first page started at 6. Eset Enterprise Edition starts at 5 users...fits the job here. Come renewal time...the admin only has to touch 1x machine....update the user/pass, and the single license file. In and out in 3 minutes..and the entire network is renewed for a year.