Not with mine; the tint is everywhere. Your situation seems less pervasive.
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Dell U3011 coming soon.
- Thread starter Snowdog
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pedophilekiller
Limp Gawd
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Well honestly, I've seen more of these panels than most people. And believe me there is a spectrum of different degrees of tinting. I've seen green tint, tan/yellow tint, blue tint. I am literally doing quality control for Dell at this point. The funny thing is Dell forum is the easiest place to inspect this defect because of the left and right gray borders.
If you say so, but as I've seen, any difference in tint from left to right is in the noise compared to a deltaE error of 6 (as measured in the latest review) or 10-14 as I've shown. What is your deltaE variance from left to right? I'm guessing no worse than:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3754/a-new-30-contender-hp-zr30w-review/5
I think it's unreasonable to expect better. I'd be happy if that was the biggest issue I could find with the monitor.
Higher-end 30" monitors from NEC and Eizo have settings for enhanced color and brightness uniformity across the panel. They have some electronics which perform compensation. This is one of the biggest advantages of those models. Non-uniformity can be very annoying, and it's a big problem with 30" panels. Even with uniformity compensation enabled, there's a lot of variation between units, with some units achieving better uniformity than others. It's a crapshoot...
I was hoping for a new 30" IPS panel from LG, but all these new 30" monitors are using the same old LM300WQ5 panel which suffers from a lot of issues, unfortunately. Much of that was already discussed in detail on this forum 2-3 years ago. The LM300WQ5 has been around for 3 years now, believe it or not.
Ya, I'm happy with the uniformity. My issue is with the white balance (color and brightness). The lcd tech may be old, but what's new is the price point, promised factory calibration, bit depth, color space. I'm not seeing a white point that is close to where it should be.
I'm also aware that there is much better at a ~$4000 price point. I'm not interested.
Ya, I'm happy with the uniformity. My issue is with the white balance (color and brightness). The lcd tech may be old, but what's new is the price point, promised factory calibration, bit depth, color space. I'm not seeing a white point that is close to where it should be.
I'm also aware that there is much better at a ~$4000 price point. I'm not interested.
The NEC LCD3090WQXi at $2200 or the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released PA301W are better choices if you care about calibration and accuracy. It's still a crapshoot to some extent, but with better chances of landing a good unit.
Another $1000 or so when I'm not having a problem with uniformity? Hardly clearly a better choice for me. I think your argument is really directed to pedophilekiller
I must have gotten lucky, my 3x ZR30w's look identical to each other.
It's also not just the panel. My LG 30" had the LM300WQ5 and had bad green tint. The ZR30w's image quality blow's it out of the water. Maybe it's a much better back light, dunno!I bet the zr30w has a better lamp(s) than what dell is using. Going cheap on the lamp could explain the intermittent buzz, the green tint, and even some uniformity issues. Just guessing.I must have gotten lucky, my 3x ZR30w's look identical to each other.
You're likely to get better whites and a better color calibration overall with the NEC.
I may be likely to get better whites simply by swapping out my existing unit. Chances seem pretty good in fact since white problems aren't being reported unanimously.
I believe the lamps come as part of the LCD module from LG.
Tint and color uniformity issues are typically LCD problems, not lamp problems.
The buzz is most likely a problem with some power-related component such as the CCFL inverter or the power supply.
I would get better color calibration with a monitor that uses an SDI interface instead of DVI, but no need for me to spend extra on that either.
The NEC is only 24 bit color btw, so that would be a step backward.
Maybe, but exchanges often become an endlessly frustrating game. Been there many times...
Again, I think you are arguing with the wrong person, it is pedophilekiller that has been thru a ton of exchanges.
My crystal ball didn't tell me I'd have a problem with this monitor; I probably would have passed on it if it had told me so
It was reasonable to expect that the dell monitor wouldn't have had worse white balance than anything I've seen since ~1995 color CRTs. My other two dell lcds (not 30") are fine.
Intergalactic Nagus
n00b
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- Oct 7, 2010
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Hi guys!
Here's an update-
Unbelievably I'm getting used to the AG coating. I still see it, it still registers but sitting a little further away and getting back to actual work It's just sort of fading into the background. Don't get me wrong - it's still really unacceptable but I'm not spending $$$ on the NEC/Eizo and I'm not going Apple 27" CineMirror so there you are. I think if Apple had a CineMirror 30" I'd at least go down to the Apple Store and take a look though.
You'll pry this 30" panel from my cold......(you know the rest)
Hey, I want to get on the testing bandwagon too! I'm feeling left out...
I have a Spyder3 Elite and I've used it a number of times to calibrate the U3011 but it just doesn't look right to my eye? It seems too dark and a bit greenish. It wanted me to turn down the brightness all the way and then use the contrast to take it down to 120 at 5800K. I dunno? It just seems too dark. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?
I also don't know what mode I should be in - Adobe RGB or what? I've always found calibration and profiling more art than science and I'm just sort of stumbling around with the calibrator. The last time something printed out exactly like on screen was on my original Photosmart printer like 10 years ago. Now I have the HP B9180 and I want to make the most of it. I wouldn't mind any pointers anyone would be willing to share.
Also, I downloaded Argyll and I'm stumped! There is an unzipped directory full of exe's but none of the run? Sigh.
So I think the whole AG coating thing is just the nature of the beast right now. I'm going to go back to work (and game), keep it nice and clean and sell it when the next big thing in panels comes along. ('course ask me that again tomorrow or just before the return period is up and I might change my tune)
Here's an update-
Unbelievably I'm getting used to the AG coating. I still see it, it still registers but sitting a little further away and getting back to actual work It's just sort of fading into the background. Don't get me wrong - it's still really unacceptable but I'm not spending $$$ on the NEC/Eizo and I'm not going Apple 27" CineMirror so there you are. I think if Apple had a CineMirror 30" I'd at least go down to the Apple Store and take a look though.
You'll pry this 30" panel from my cold......(you know the rest)
Hey, I want to get on the testing bandwagon too! I'm feeling left out...
I have a Spyder3 Elite and I've used it a number of times to calibrate the U3011 but it just doesn't look right to my eye? It seems too dark and a bit greenish. It wanted me to turn down the brightness all the way and then use the contrast to take it down to 120 at 5800K. I dunno? It just seems too dark. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?
I also don't know what mode I should be in - Adobe RGB or what? I've always found calibration and profiling more art than science and I'm just sort of stumbling around with the calibrator. The last time something printed out exactly like on screen was on my original Photosmart printer like 10 years ago. Now I have the HP B9180 and I want to make the most of it. I wouldn't mind any pointers anyone would be willing to share.
Also, I downloaded Argyll and I'm stumped! There is an unzipped directory full of exe's but none of the run? Sigh.
So I think the whole AG coating thing is just the nature of the beast right now. I'm going to go back to work (and game), keep it nice and clean and sell it when the next big thing in panels comes along. ('course ask me that again tomorrow or just before the return period is up and I might change my tune
)I don't know the spyder calibration software. With argyll, the basic tools are all command line driven so not very user friendly. If you want user friendly (kind of), there's the dispcalGUI front-end to argyll.
Seems we need a calibration thread.
Review up at TFT Central
Ultra Wide
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Jul 23, 2000
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Good extensive review, I wonder how much variation there is between different panel samples.
daveswantek
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Oct 30, 2007
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The driver is probubly supplied by MS. Look in device manager to see if it is listed as U3011. If it is then you are good.
Here's my U3011 Argyll calibrations with a Colormunki Spectrophotometer, which is meant for wide gamut displays.
changed b where needed on brighter srgb profile, d1 is because i have multiple monitors. it did a calibration each time before starting and then i set the icm default in windows and checked it afterwards with -r
I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, but I could be, since I've never used argyll before. Seems to look better and be more accurate than the colormunki software though so far... will have to play around a bit more before i try and make inkjet calibrations with it...
I have no tinting issue that's not uniform, no stuck/dead pixels, no whiney sounds, so far I'm happy compared to my old 3007WFPHC, which was a nightmare to use in windows where everything always looked oversaturated. At least now I can switch to my sRGB mode and use the internet with proper colors. Very happy for what I paid, just over a thousand dollars via Premier, plus selling the 3007... no regrets so far.
Code:
Built in Dell sRGB profile, no correction on, brightness 0 contrast 50:
Uncalibrated response:
Black level = 0.23 cd/m^2
White level = 148.43 cd/m^2
Aprox. gamma = 2.14
Contrast ratio = 636:1
White chromaticity coordinates 0.3105, 0.3174
White Correlated Color Temperature = 6737K, DE 2K to locus = 2.6
White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 6743K, DE 2K to locus = 6.7
White Visual Color Temperature = 6849K, DE 2K to locus = 2.5
White Visual Daylight Temperature = 7078K, DE 2K to locus = 6.4
Effective LUT entry depth seems to be 10 bits
Target Brightness = 150.00, Current = 148.38, error = -1.1%
Target 50% Level = 31.92, Current = 33.62, error = 1.1%
Target Near Black = 1.48, Current = 2.59, error = 0.7%
Target white = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.3101, y 0.3177, error = 7.04 DE
Target black = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.3052, y 0.3083, error = 10.65 DE
Built in Dell sRGB profile, calibrated for screen viewing/web publishing:
Current calibration response:
Black level = 0.17 cd/m^2
White level = 148.68 cd/m^2
Aprox. gamma = 2.15
Contrast ratio = 856:1
White chromaticity coordinates 0.3096, 0.3167
White Correlated Color Temperature = 6798K, DE 2K to locus = 2.4
White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 6804K, DE 2K to locus = 6.6
White Visual Color Temperature = 6905K, DE 2K to locus = 2.3
White Visual Daylight Temperature = 7139K, DE 2K to locus = 6.3
Target Brightness = 130.00, Current = 132.24, error = 1.7%
Target 50% Level = 28.36, Current = 29.51, error = 0.9%
Target Near Black = 1.32, Current = 1.43, error = 0.1%
Target white = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.3136, y 0.3295, error = 0.45 DE
Target black = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.3111, y 0.3194, error = 6.33 DE
Custom Wide Gamut profile, calibrated for inkjet printing.
Current calibration response:
Black level = 0.24 cd/m^2
White level = 88.00 cd/m^2
Aprox. gamma = 2.15
Contrast ratio = 371:1
White chromaticity coordinates 0.3113, 0.3283
White Correlated Color Temperature = 6587K, DE 2K to locus = 5.0
White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 6586K, DE 2K to locus = 0.6
White Visual Color Temperature = 6400K, DE 2K to locus = 4.8
White Visual Daylight Temperature = 6567K, DE 2K to locus = 0.5
Target Brightness = 90.00, Current = 88.01, error = -2.2%
Target 50% Level = 19.04, Current = 19.76, error = 0.8%
Target Near Black = 0.88, Current = 1.31, error = 0.5%
Target white = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.3108, y 0.3286, error = 1.29 DE
Target black = x 0.3128, y 0.3291, Current = x 0.2976, y 0.3136, error = 7.42 DE
Command used was basically dispcal -d1 -yl -gs -b 90 -t 6500 -o C:\whereicmfilesgo.icmchanged b where needed on brighter srgb profile, d1 is because i have multiple monitors. it did a calibration each time before starting and then i set the icm default in windows and checked it afterwards with -r
I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, but I could be, since I've never used argyll before. Seems to look better and be more accurate than the colormunki software though so far... will have to play around a bit more before i try and make inkjet calibrations with it...
I have no tinting issue that's not uniform, no stuck/dead pixels, no whiney sounds, so far I'm happy compared to my old 3007WFPHC, which was a nightmare to use in windows where everything always looked oversaturated. At least now I can switch to my sRGB mode and use the internet with proper colors. Very happy for what I paid, just over a thousand dollars via Premier, plus selling the 3007... no regrets so far.
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First post at the forum but long time lurker. I ordered and received the U3011 despite some of the negative comments here. First, there is a minor tint which doesn't bother me but the top part of the monitor is loose. If you touch the actual screen anywhere near the top it falls backwards and then returns to the normal position afterwards.
My question is: should I have this unit replaced now or wait until version A01 comes out? The rest of the monitor is great and I wouldn't think about replacing it otherwise. Thanks for any advice
My question is: should I have this unit replaced now or wait until version A01 comes out? The rest of the monitor is great and I wouldn't think about replacing it otherwise. Thanks for any advice
pedophilekiller
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 462
This is normal in all of the 11 panels I've tested. There is a sizable room for flexing near the edges. The gap is suppose to compensate for heating and cooling during operation. However, I never recommend touching the panel because it distorts the backlight wash. Specifically, when you touch different areas of the screen, you're shifting the evenness of the backlight. You can see this effect in a pitch dark room.
Secondly, I've been comparing the U3011 vs the U2711 for a while. Out of the box, the U3011 have much better color settings than its smaller sibling. However, in all of the panels I've seen, the U2711 has the best black level. To describe what I'm seeing, the U2711 has a darker black probably because it uses smaller lamps. Additionally, the sBri level is jacked all the way up in the U3011 service menu, whereas the sBri is variablly calibrated in the U2711. Colorwise, I still prefer the U2711 due to the aforementioned tinting. Until you get a perfect panel, this will annoy the crap out of you if you believe whites should be brilliantly white and not green or yellow. The AG coatings are the same across the models despite some skepticism. It is worth noting some panels do have variable AG coating, however, this may be specific to the sheet of AG used. But most of the AG seems consistently good and unobtrusive.
Secondly, I've been comparing the U3011 vs the U2711 for a while. Out of the box, the U3011 have much better color settings than its smaller sibling. However, in all of the panels I've seen, the U2711 has the best black level. To describe what I'm seeing, the U2711 has a darker black probably because it uses smaller lamps. Additionally, the sBri level is jacked all the way up in the U3011 service menu, whereas the sBri is variablly calibrated in the U2711. Colorwise, I still prefer the U2711 due to the aforementioned tinting. Until you get a perfect panel, this will annoy the crap out of you if you believe whites should be brilliantly white and not green or yellow. The AG coatings are the same across the models despite some skepticism. It is worth noting some panels do have variable AG coating, however, this may be specific to the sheet of AG used. But most of the AG seems consistently good and unobtrusive.
I received a replacement u3011 today.
Like my original, the replacement has a distinct green tint to the white, as seen in standard mode.
Perhaps I shouldn't be so concerned as I can remove the green so long as I'm using custom color mode with the gain on green turned down. However, the gamut for custom color mode > RGB and it seems to be causing a bit of oversaturated red&green for sRGB pictures even when the application is color space aware. (For example, firefox with gfx.color_management.mode = 1)
Standard mode doesn't have this saturation problem, so it seems like standard mode color space = RGB, not that the color space for this mode is documented one way or another. Recommendations?
Like my original, the replacement has a distinct green tint to the white, as seen in standard mode.
Perhaps I shouldn't be so concerned as I can remove the green so long as I'm using custom color mode with the gain on green turned down. However, the gamut for custom color mode > RGB and it seems to be causing a bit of oversaturated red&green for sRGB pictures even when the application is color space aware. (For example, firefox with gfx.color_management.mode = 1)
Standard mode doesn't have this saturation problem, so it seems like standard mode color space = RGB, not that the color space for this mode is documented one way or another. Recommendations?
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This review claims that white brightness is 179 cd^m2 at brightness/contrast settings of 50/50, yet argyll is reporting more like 247 cd^m2 at that setting, as seen by both of my monitors with the same kind of colorimeter. ittech seems to be seeing similar results as I as his brightness is still high but closer to the target 120 cd^m2 when the brightness setting is cranked down to 0.
Also I'm wondering what program is used to generate the "Calibration Report" chart&graph?
I'm wondering if this is my issue. A client of mine has a 3007wfp and a u3011. Even though they are both set for 1280x800 (the clients choice for large text) when you drag an e-mail from one screen to the other they look VERY different. The 3007wfp looks normal but the same window, just dragged to the u3011 screen looks like the text is bold and slightly blurry. I have no idea why the text looks so different even though the screens are at the same resolution.
The U3011 has a much better scaler (or rather, the 3007WFP barely has one). Showing and scaling text in a greatly reduced resolution is not recommended.
If you let the graphic card handle the scaling on both monitors you will get the same result. Although increasing the text-size / DPI in the OS is a much better solution (although not without some drawbacks) for readability.
Thanks - how do I change whether the graphics card is doing the scaling vs. the monitor?
I have the 3008WFP and DisplayPort is noticeably slower when changing resolution, switching inputs or even turning on compared to DVI.
Could someone test this on the U3011? That be pretty awesome.
I might be getting a couple 30 inch monitors for eyefinity after the new AMD 6000 series launches, so I'd like to know how fast it is in regards to switching...
Could someone test this on the U3011? That be pretty awesome
.I might be getting a couple 30 inch monitors for eyefinity after the new AMD 6000 series launches, so I'd like to know how fast it is in regards to switching...
I have the 3008WFP and DisplayPort is noticeably slower when changing resolution, switching inputs or even turning on compared to DVI.
Could someone test this on the U3011? That be pretty awesome
I might be getting a couple 30 inch monitors for eyefinity after the new AMD 6000 series launches, so I'd like to know how fast it is in regards to switching...
I haven't noticed this on my A02 revision 3008WFP. Switching resolutions and inputs is equally slow no matter what is selected. The U3011 should be much faster in this.
Maybe Argyll is buggy? Another free software you can use to check calibration is HCFR:
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php
It doesn't do any calibration, just checks it.
I have HCFR installed and it shows similar results when checking as my NEC Spectraview II software.
No, it's not argyll.
With eye-one-match, under brightness calibration, my monitor currently shows luminance in cd^m2 of:
235 at brightness/contrast 50/50
166 at brightness/contrast of 0/50
117 at brightness/contrast of 0/43
with a target brightness of 120, which looks about optimal. Anything brighter causes eye fatigue.
So these numbers match argyll, and pass my sanity checks.
So, I still wonder what's up with tftcentral's reported numbers. They seem far off. Unless the 50hz&220v version of this monitor runs the CCFL more dimly, I'd guess the lacie software is reporting some sort of average luminance across all color patches, not the white luminance. tftcentral does note that they had to reduce brightness "considerably" to get normal viewing levels...
Argyll is actually quite more feature filled than any of the color calibration software I've been able to run under windows or OSX. Argyll does a lot more test patches and deltaE refinements during calibration than eye-one-match, or coloreyes display pro. With argyll I've been able to measure gamut volumes and view them, something that seems to require buying 3rd party software under OSX/windows.
PS: Speaking of gamut volumes - the gamut volume measurements show that the color space of standard mode is slightly different than the color space of custom color mode, with the default settings. Uncalibrated deltaE numbers are a bit worse in custom mode. Annoying.
PPS: I tried HCFR under OSX and it doesn't support the eye-one-display 2.
Well what do you really want tested?? It takes me ~5 seconds to switch the input source between dvi and displayport with the menu shortcut, and maybe 1 second for the screen to appear...I have the 3008WFP and DisplayPort is noticeably slower when changing resolution, switching inputs or even turning on compared to DVI.
Could someone test this on the U3011? That be pretty awesome
I might be getting a couple 30 inch monitors for eyefinity after the new AMD 6000 series launches, so I'd like to know how fast it is in regards to switching...
For me, the only switching problem that is a bit of a problem in practice is the time it takes to switch between VGA modes. For example during boot, the initial boot screen may or may not appear at all (it varies). I currently have 2 3011's plugged in to my desktop and they go back and forth as to which one "notices" various boot screens in time. Sometimes one of them, sometimes both. My old 2405 didn't have this problem.
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Depends upon the OS, the video card.
Under windows, with nvidia, there is an nvidia control panel setting "Change flat panel scaling".
Fonts can be better scaled by the OS, but sounds like you've got a visually handicapped case where you'd want graphics scaled too.
Your uncalibrated deltaE numbers look better than mine for "correlated color" and "visual color" white measurements. Congrats. At least with my replacement monitor, deltaE for white seems within the margin of error in those two modes, and I've calibrated custom mode to be within bounds.
I think the problem is the factory calibration doesn't test white, just greys and colors.