Dell U2713HM

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Jul 4, 2008
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I also got in on the $559 Aus dell price match and got this a few days ago. Seems pretty nice however I sometimes have image retention when I use the HDMI to watch TV then switch back to DVI for the desktop.

Its weird like a plasma in that it retains the channel logo almost like a ghosted image, you cannot see everything just a partial. However if I watch a video or play a video game it seems to go away. If I am just browsing the internet you can still see the ghosted logo until I do something that seems to cycle the pixels a lot.
 
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Nov 28, 2012
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Hi all,

Back again with updates. Taking the feedback into consideration I have pictures of my backlight bleed at a longer distance of 2m and then at a working distance of 1m. There is no backlight bleed whatsoever at 2m. However at the more critical distance where I work, there is some bleed-through. However I can confirm that with use and/or tapping the edges of the screen gently that the bleeding continues to improve significantly.

N.B. The house was hella cold before and may have contributed to the initial BLB.

Here is the BLB when I just received the monitor: http://imgur.com/q3eKC

And now: http://imgur.com/WJKJq

At 2m distance: http://imgur.com/8C8I2


I checked for image retention with recommended grey values based on the board - no retention after 2 hours. Crosshatching is basically not an issue on excel - I don't have a picture because the camera will create its own hatching artifacts.

I think we have a winner and I will be keeping this unit for the foreseeable future.
 

vibe

[H]ard|Gawd
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What do y'all think about buying the extra two years of advanced exchange for another $75 ?
 

Snowdog

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Hi all,

Back again with updates. Taking the feedback into consideration I have pictures of my backlight bleed at a longer distance of 2m and then at a working distance of 1m. There is no backlight bleed whatsoever at 2m. However at the more critical distance where I work, there is some bleed-through.


This is not BLB then, but IPS glow. You could replace the monitor a hundred times and they would all have it. It is the nature of IPS. You have to decide if you can live with it.
 

TotallyCool

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Nah, it does look like BLB, but it did get much better after he performed some shiatsu massage and waiting, as he said.
 

Snowdog

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Nah, it does look like BLB, but it did get much better after he performed some shiatsu massage and waiting, as he said.

He may have had some initially, but he doesn't anymore(I am one that suggested waiting). See the 2 meter picture.

If your BLB disappears at 2 Meters, it isn't BLB, it is IPS glow, which all IPS panels have (exception is rare A-TW equipped panels).
 

jmdev

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Nov 15, 2012
Messages
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Hi all,

Back again with updates. Taking the feedback into consideration I have pictures of my backlight bleed at a longer distance of 2m and then at a working distance of 1m. There is no backlight bleed whatsoever at 2m. However at the more critical distance where I work, there is some bleed-through. However I can confirm that with use and/or tapping the edges of the screen gently that the bleeding continues to improve significantly.

N.B. The house was hella cold before and may have contributed to the initial BLB.

Here is the BLB when I just received the monitor: http://imgur.com/q3eKC

And now: http://imgur.com/WJKJq

At 2m distance: http://imgur.com/8C8I2


I checked for image retention with recommended grey values based on the board - no retention after 2 hours. Crosshatching is basically not an issue on excel - I don't have a picture because the camera will create its own hatching artifacts.

I think we have a winner and I will be keeping this unit for the foreseeable future.

Could you explain what you mean by tapping and/or point me to some instructions on what you did? It looks like you made quite the improvement! Thanks!
 

TotallyCool

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He may have had some initially, but he doesn't anymore(I am one that suggested waiting). See the 2 meter picture.

If your BLB disappears at 2 Meters, it isn't BLB, it is IPS glow, which all IPS panels have (exception is rare A-TW equipped panels).

IPS glow doesn't appear in the corners like that.
 

jmdev

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Nov 15, 2012
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Also, having not played the panel lottery before, how many times can I go through getting this thing replaced? Is there a limit? The CSRs are starting to sound annoyed :) Looking forward to lucky #4.
 

xoleras

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You obviously don't know much about the topic.

Snowdog is correct. IPS glow can be mistaken for backlight bleed, the only way to prevent this phenomenon is by having an overly aggressive anti glare coating; this is precisely what the u2711 did. For anyone following monitors, it's quite obvious that many aren't so pleased with the thick anti glare on the 2711.

I've used quite a few IPS panels and the 2713HM (Just bought one last week for 559 bones....) has IPS glow, but no noticeable backlight bleed. IPS panels are substantially brighter than shitty TN panels, so this means that some light will seep in from the corners unless a very thick matte coating is placed on the panel -- so if you're looking for complete black uniformity in a dark room that may not happen because its a trade off between a shitty matte coating or image clarity with a light AG (which is what the 2713 uses). The downside of matte is that it affects image clarity on white backgrounds. With that said, the effect is minimized on the 2713. I can view movies or play games just fine, unless you REALLY have OCD or aspergers syndrome it's not a big deal.

The U2713 has one of the best pictures i've ever seen -- the color uniformity is excellent. Comparing the 2713 to the TN panels I use at work, there is no comparison -- the 2713 is lightyears better. I'm quite pleased with it. I've added this to my collection of monitors: u3011, samsung s27A850D. So far I like the 2713HM the best out of all of them (although I do like all of them).
 
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xoleras

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Hi all,

Back again with updates. Taking the feedback into consideration I have pictures of my backlight bleed at a longer distance of 2m and then at a working distance of 1m. There is no backlight bleed whatsoever at 2m. However at the more critical distance where I work, there is some bleed-through. However I can confirm that with use and/or tapping the edges of the screen gently that the bleeding continues to improve significantly.

N.B. The house was hella cold before and may have contributed to the initial BLB.

Here is the BLB when I just received the monitor: http://imgur.com/q3eKC

And now: http://imgur.com/WJKJq

At 2m distance: http://imgur.com/8C8I2


I checked for image retention with recommended grey values based on the board - no retention after 2 hours. Crosshatching is basically not an issue on excel - I don't have a picture because the camera will create its own hatching artifacts.

I think we have a winner and I will be keeping this unit for the foreseeable future.

That is IPS glow.
 

Snowdog

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Snowdog is correct. IPS glow can be mistaken for backlight bleed, the only way to prevent this phenomenon is by having an overly aggressive anti glare coating; this is precisely what the u2711 did.

That is incorrect. The surface coating harshness has no effect on IPS glow. Everything from glossy Apple monitors, to harsh U2711s have IPS glow.

IPS glow is from the specific arrangement of the liquid crystal elements. While IPS arrangement delivers good contrast and color stability at wide angles, it creates some light scattering which causes some glow at angle.

The only way to prevent it so far is to use an extra polarizing layer to filter out the light scattering. NEC call such polarizing layers Advanced TrueWide (A-TW). It is only found on older monitors and a few extremely high end new monitors.
 

aku192

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A question for those who own U2713HM:

Does it have the typical poor white uniformity issue that IPS monitors usually have? I'm talking about the uneven color temperature across the white screen, with one side appearing to have a slight yellow tint while the other side having a brighter white. It's even more visible with gray background, where you can see the shade of gray on the left look somewhat different from that on the right.
 

xoleras

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A question for those who own U2713HM:

Does it have the typical poor white uniformity issue that IPS monitors usually have? I'm talking about the uneven color temperature across the white screen, with one side appearing to have a slight yellow tint while the other side having a brighter white. It's even more visible with gray background, where you can see the shade of gray on the left look somewhat different from that on the right.

Of all the IPS panels I have, color uniformity is vastly better than TN panels so i'm not sure what you're talking about. Both the u3011 and 2713 I have, both have perfect white uniformity.

IPS panels with a harsh matte coating may appear shimmery on white backgrounds, I know the u2711 is like this. It's really not like you describe, however.
 
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aku192

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Of all the IPS panels I have, color uniformity is vastly better than TN panels so i'm not sure what you're talking about. Both the u3011 and 2713 I have, both have perfect white uniformity.

IPS panels with a harsh matte coating may appear shimmery on white backgrounds, I know the u2711 is like this. It's really not like you describe, however.
Well, I have to admit I've never seen 3011 or 2713, or any other IPS monitors of that caliber. The only IPS monitors I've come across so far were all e-IPS, and they all suffered from the aforementioned problem, only to a different degree. Maybe it only happens on low-end IPS monitors?

And no, I'm not talking about the AG coating on IPS panels.
 

xoleras

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That is incorrect. The surface coating harshness has no effect on IPS glow. Everything from glossy Apple monitors, to harsh U2711s have IPS glow.

IPS glow is from the specific arrangement of the liquid crystal elements. While IPS arrangement delivers good contrast and color stability at wide angles, it creates some light scattering which causes some glow at angle.

The only way to prevent it so far is to use an extra polarizing layer to filter out the light scattering. NEC call such polarizing layers Advanced TrueWide (A-TW). It is only found on older monitors and a few extremely high end new monitors.

I appreciate your input on this, but do you have any additional information on what you describe? I've viewed quite a few IPS panels and it has always been my presumption that because IPS panels are so significantly brighter than TN, that the light "seeps" from the edges which causes IPS glow. My understanding has been that there are ways to minimize this effect - which manufacturer do, but the best failsafe is with a thick matte coating.

Of all the IPS panels I've viewed, the ones with matte coating do not display much in the way of IPS glow. The matte coating diminishes it significantly, which causes black uniformity to be even throughout - I have a u3011 which is dead black all across the screen in darkness, while every glossy or semi glossy screen i've owned is not like this. In fact, I believe that every glossy apple cinema display I've ever seen has this very issue (IPS glow) - not that it bothers me, mind you, it really isn't a big deal. IPS panels are so much better than TN in every respect that I can never go back to a TN. In any case, the 2713HM i'm using is fantastic, definitely the best clarity/sharpness i've ever seen on an IPS panel, I love it.
 

Snowdog

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I appreciate your input on this, but do you have any additional information on what you describe? I've viewed quite a few IPS panels and it has always been my presumption that because IPS panels are so significantly brighter than TN, that the light "seeps" from the edges which causes IPS glow. My understanding has been that there are ways to minimize this effect - which manufacturer do, but the best failsafe is with a thick matte coating..

IPS glow doesn't leak in around the edges. It happens exclusively dependent on viewing angle. It is just that when you centered straight on, the edges and especially the corners are at the most acute viewing angle and glow the most, if you move off to the side, the glow moves as well. If you move far away the angle gets less acute and corner glow stops.

Examples of IPS with and without A-TW.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg254/scaled.php?server=254&filename=51zc7.jpg&res=landing
http://www.toastyx.net/nec-planar-earth.sm.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9774/a76lt5.jpg

These are all IPS monitors, one is an NEC with A-TW polarizer controlling the glow, the other is typical IPS (with harsher AG coating BTW) exhibiting IPS glow all over the screen.

Here is a straight on photo of the same monitor:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1232496/...0mdp-gold-led-monitor-club/1970#post_17832835

Note the third photo, the corners glow when the camera is brought in close.

All these photos are showing the same effect. IPS glow from acute viewing angles. It can happen all over the screen or just the corners, depending on your viewing position.
 
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xoleras

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IPS glow doesn't leak in around the edges. It happens exclusively dependent on viewing angle. It is just that when you centered straight on, the edges and especially the corners are at the most acute viewing angle and glow the most, if you move off to the side, the glow moves as well. If you move far away the angle gets less acute and corner glow stops.

Examples of IPS with and without A-TW.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg254/scaled.php?server=254&filename=51zc7.jpg&res=landing
http://www.toastyx.net/nec-planar-earth.sm.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9774/a76lt5.jpg

These are all IPS monitors, one is an NEC with A-TW polarizer controlling the glow, the other is typical IPS (with harsher AG coating BTW) exhibiting IPS glow all over the screen.

Here is a straight on photo of the same monitor:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1232496/...0mdp-gold-led-monitor-club/1970#post_17832835

Note the third photo, the corners glow when the camera is brought in close.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1232496/...0mdp-gold-led-monitor-club/1970#post_17832835

All these photos are showing the same effect. IPS glow from acute viewing angles. It can happen all over the screen or just the corners, depending on your viewing position.

Are there any websites substantiating this with an explanation and technical information? I'm not sure which models are being pictured; I know that every matte IPS i've seen does not display this phenomenon. Every u2711/3011 i've seen does not have such an issue. I've seen mention on several websites theorizing the cause being related to the brightness of the IPS itself -- this would explain why most matte screens (again, u2711, 3011, etc) don't have an issue w/ this.

By the way, i'm only asking because i'm curious and a definitive answer would definitely satisfy that. Thanks for the info, it's helpful for everyone.
 

livefastdieyoung

Limp Gawd
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Of all the IPS panels I've viewed, the ones with matte coating do not display much in the way of IPS glow.

different panels have different amounts of glow. the matte panels you've tried just happened to have less glow than the glossy panels; the ag coating does not actually reduce the amount of glow. the cinema displays have more glow than the u3011 not because they're glossy, but because they're different panels. you could put an antiglare filter on a cinema display and it would not appreciably affect the amount of glow.

i've tested several of the latest 27" 1080p ips monitors that use basically the same panel but with different levels of antiglare (glossy, semi-glossy, light ag, and regular ag), and they all have the same amount of glow.
 
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Hi all,

To reduce the yellow light at the corners I tried a method posted on overclock.net where I tapped the frame around the glow and tried some light warping of the plastic. I have no idea if it actually helps but the theory was that this yellow glow is caused by poor fitting of the panel with the frame. Using a microfiber cloth wrapped around a knuckle you can also tap the panel to the point where there is color change you see when you poke it. Please be careful when you do this! I tried for approximately 10 minutes then used it over 2 days to hopefully allow the panel to settle into a better position.

Back to the IPS glow vs backlight bleed, I noticed in most explanations it causes a grey blue hue which I do notice when moving my head around the display. I am hesitant to call the yellow glow at the bottom left an IPS glow issue since although it will go away at certain distances when it comes back it is always the same shape and colour. Looking at the IPS glow at other areas there is definitely a difference in how it slowly "develops" as I proceed to change my viewing angle versus this yellow colour that localized to that region.

I suppose the bottom line is that whatever you call it, it is still a yellow blob that in my case was present at normal viewing distance which changed the color of images on the screen. I agree each user will have to determine what will be their acceptable limit for this issue. I am happy enough with my panel :)
 

livefastdieyoung

Limp Gawd
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I know that every matte IPS i've seen does not display this phenomenon. Every u2711/3011 i've seen does not have such an issue

they do, it's just that you didn't notice. different panels have them to different degrees. the dell 2007fp i use at work has noticeably less glow than the viewsonic vx2770smh i have at home. even the colors are different, the 2007fp has a purplish glow whereas the viewsonic is slightly bluish on the left and yellowish on the right.

dell u2711 glow.

dell s2440l glow. <- a-mva panel, showing glow isn't limited to ips panels.
 

Snowdog

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Every u2711/3011 i've seen does not have such an issue. I've seen mention on several websites theorizing the cause being related to the brightness of the IPS itself -- this would explain why most matte screens (again, u2711, 3011, etc) don't have an issue w/ this.

I can't explain what you have seen. But your theory is just plain wrong.

Also a friend of mine has a U2711 and it has plenty of IPS glow and I owned a U3007-HC (Also 30" with strong AG) and it had more noticeable IPS glow than any screen I have ever seen. My current A-TW equipped NEC has no glow.

Check this video to see clearly that U2711s glow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4njsqNFtWA


For web sites that know about IPS glow, sometimes they check and make it clear that it affects all IPS screens, but those with A-TW.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1232496/...0mdp-gold-led-monitor-club/1970#post_17832835
"On a black image there is a characteristics IPS white glow, but in normal working conditions this shouldn't present too much of a problem. The above image was taken in a darkened room to demonstrate the white wide angle glow when viewing a black screen. There is no A-TW polarizer on this panel which is rarely used now in the market but was implemented on some older screens to improve the off centre black viewing. If you are viewing dark content from a close position to the screen you can sometimes see this pale glow on parts of the screen towards the sides and corners because of your proximity to the screen and your line of sight. This is accentuated a little due to the sheer size of the 27" panel. The edges of the screen are at an angle from your line of sight which means you pick up this white glow to a smaller degree. This disappears as you move backwards away from the screen where the line of sight does not result in a wide angle view of parts of the screen and you can see the screen largely from head on. That is a little difficult to explain but hopefully makes sense. It is only really apparent on darker content and only really if you are working in darkened lighting conditions on this model. It was not too severe I didn't think, but something to be aware of."
 

Snowdog

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I am hesitant to call the yellow glow at the bottom left an IPS glow issue since although it will go away at certain distances when it comes back it is always the same shape and colour. Looking at the IPS glow at other areas there is definitely a difference in how it slowly "develops" as I proceed to change my viewing angle versus this yellow colour that localized to that region.

It is very likely you have some small amount of actual backlight bleed that gets accentuated by normal IPS glow. This is not uncommon.
 

jmdev

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It is very likely you have some small amount of actual backlight bleed that gets accentuated by normal IPS glow. This is not uncommon.

Thank you for your informative post...I think this exactly what I was seeing. There was the yellow glow from the corner, which I was expecting, but the IPS glow accentuated it. The problem for me is that I am running windows and it happens to be right near the start menu icon which I am always utilizing. Does IPS glow vary from monitor to monitor in the same series like backlight bleed does?
 

obug

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What do y'all think about buying the extra two years of advanced exchange for another $75 ?

If the monitor lasts 3 years (standard warranty) without issue, it'll probably last 5. Plus, in my experience, Ultrasharps are very reliable. I don't think extending the warranty is worth it.
 

Snowdog

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Thank you for your informative post...I think this exactly what I was seeing. There was the yellow glow from the corner, which I was expecting, but the IPS glow accentuated it. The problem for me is that I am running windows and it happens to be right near the start menu icon which I am always utilizing. Does IPS glow vary from monitor to monitor in the same series like backlight bleed does?

Typically no. The glow is fairly consistent within a model, BLB is a lot more variable.
 

xoleras

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Thank you for your informative post...I think this exactly what I was seeing. There was the yellow glow from the corner, which I was expecting, but the IPS glow accentuated it. The problem for me is that I am running windows and it happens to be right near the start menu icon which I am always utilizing. Does IPS glow vary from monitor to monitor in the same series like backlight bleed does?

What you're describing is not IPS glow. From what i've seen IPS glow is only noticeable in a completely dark room on some models; and it really isn't a big deal or noticeable to me. Some people just have aspergers syndrome over stupid stuff - as I mentioned earlier it is present on some screens i've seen but not my u3011. IPS glow is definitely there on my s27a850D PLS panel.

A yellow glow in a corner is likely shit quality control, maybe a catleap? I have not seen anything like that on any IPS panel i've owned. IPS glow is fairly consistent and it isn't a big deal. True BLB or dead pixels are deal breakers for me, though.
 

xoleras

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edit: nevermind, just read something similar at tft. Thanks for the info, snowdog.
 

JPowers

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Very informative posts, Snowdog. I think my monitor is perfect. I just shut all the lights off in the room and checked the screen from several angles other than looking at it straight on. The glow changes.

Shut the lights out and open a full blue screen from here - http://www.doihaveadeadpixel.com/

Move around the room and you'll see the edges become more purple depending on the viewing angle.

I still don't understand why the LEDs in the lower left corner are more yellow than the rest, though.
 
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What you're describing is not IPS glow. From what i've seen IPS glow is only noticeable in a completely dark room on some models; and it really isn't a big deal or noticeable to me. Some people just have aspergers syndrome over stupid stuff - as I mentioned earlier it is present on some screens i've seen but not my u3011. IPS glow is definitely there on my s27a850D PLS panel.

A yellow glow in a corner is likely shit quality control, maybe a catleap? I have not seen anything like that on any IPS panel i've owned. IPS glow is fairly consistent and it isn't a big deal. True BLB or dead pixels are deal breakers for me, though.

I don't think that is fair, IPS glow is often worse than average back light bleeding. Backlight glow is a HUGE problem with IPS displays and why it isn't often used in TVs.
 

dopple

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Very informative posts, Snowdog. I think my monitor is perfect. I just shut all the lights off in the room and checked the screen from several angles other than looking at it straight on. The glow changes.

Shut the lights out and open a full blue screen from here - http://www.doihaveadeadpixel.com/

Move around the room and you'll see the edges become more purple depending on the viewing angle.

I still don't understand why the LEDs in the lower left corner are more yellow than the rest, though.

contrast shift? gamma shift?
 
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To give additional feedback - I use both Apple iMac 27" and NEC PA301W at work on color critical images (high res fluorescence microscopy). Here are the black screen images of the NECPA301W - which is a $2000 professional monitor of badassery. These are fairly representative because I've checked on 3 of these monitors. I love the 16:10 ratio btw.

At working distance: http://imgur.com/Z7jc7

At 2m distance: http://imgur.com/NNgch


You can compare them to the U2713HM images I've posted and others too and draw your own conclusions about these issues in IPS panels. Although I think the NEC has uniformity correction ability so it looks freaking sweet regardless.

I wonder if anybody can shed some light on why the light takes on a yellow hue at the corner for the U2713HM monitors...
 

xoleras

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I don't think that is fair, IPS glow is often worse than average back light bleeding. Backlight glow is a HUGE problem with IPS displays and why it isn't often used in TVs.

LOL, okay pal if you say so. There tends to be a high proportion of those with aspergers syndrome around here, whatever.
 

Snowdog

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Hard to say, the camera settings can massively exaggerate backlight issues depending on settings.

If it looked like that in person with normal settings, then no I wouldn't keep that.

Here is what my NEC looks like, but I tweaked the camera until it was closer to what it looked like in real life.
1secdarkaj3.jpg
 

Snowdog

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To give additional feedback - I use both Apple iMac 27" and NEC PA301W at work on color critical images (high res fluorescence microscopy). Here are the black screen images of the NECPA301W - which is a $2000 professional monitor of badassery. These are fairly representative because I've checked on 3 of these monitors. I love the 16:10 ratio btw.

At working distance: http://imgur.com/Z7jc7

At 2m distance: http://imgur.com/NNgch

You can compare them to the U2713HM images I've posted and others too and draw your own conclusions about these issues in IPS panels. Although I think the NEC has uniformity correction ability so it looks freaking sweet regardless.

That is a perfect example of IPS glow, mixing with a small bit of backlight bleed.

I wish they would bring back the A-TW filter. Here is my NEC (with A-TW) compared to my old 17" TN LCD. Note that TN glows too. But IPS with A-TW doesn't.
planettiltsmallmb0.jpg
 

XBarbarian

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all you crazy kids with the ocd about perfection...

very grateful.. I am not conscious of the granularity.. you crazy kids are..

I <3 my 2713 /huggles

the ag is very minimal.. i was worried.. coming form the glossy Crossover and fine with the gloss.. but no.. the 2713 is all I had hoped for and more!
 
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On a different subject. Has anyone tried this out for PC gaming at 720p? I'm limited to relatively short length half height cards, so playing at the native resolution is out for anything demanding.

Does the scaling work as you would expect, doubling the pixels in each dimension? Or is there some messy interpolation going on? And does it introduce a lot of noticeable lag?

I'm sure that there are some UI scaling issues for a lot of games, and 720p isn't exactly the ideal resolution, but those are issues independent of the monitor.

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I haven't seen anyone directly address this.
 
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