Dell Releases World’s First 30-Inch 4K 120Hz 0.1ms OLED Monitor

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
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Could this be the perfect monitor? I want one of these so much that the $4,999 price tag doesn’t really bother me as much as it should.

Dell's new UltraSharp UP3017Q is a 30-inch OLED display with a huge 120Hz refresh rate, making it the first 4K 120Hz OLED panel in the world. With a 30-inch panel and 3840x2160 native resolution, we have a pixel density of 146PPI, with a super-low 0.1ms response time. This means it can be used not only as a professional screen, but high-end enthusiast gamers will have wet dreams over Dell's UltraSharp UP3017Q.
 
I call BS. Right now. Get it to a monitor reviewer before making laughable unbelievable claims that do their best to distort the reality of a product.


My money is that being OLED it was horrendously funny input lag.
 
Skripka said:
I call BS. Right now. Get it to a monitor reviewer before making laughable unbelievable claims that do their best to distort the reality of a product.


My money is that being OLED it was horrendously funny input lag.
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Nice edit on the cable standards :). Do OLED TVs have worse lag than LCD?

Edit: in at least one review the LG 9500 series had 54ms lag... omg...
 
Abhaxus said:
Nice edit on the cable standards :). Do OLED TVs have worse lag than LCD?
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All OLED TVs that I've seen or heard of have bad input lag, although granted I don't claim to have seen all of them. Odds are their "0.1ms" time is the most rosy distorted number they could cook.

Thinking about it. There are bandwidth problems. Problem with this beastie...it only has DisplayPort1.2, HDMI2.0 and USB-C according to Tweaktown. I suspect they get 4K 120Hz by dropping the color rendering side. Because none of those connects have enough bandwidth for 4K at 120Hz with 10-bit color. You need what 25+ Gigabit/second? HDMI2.0 (not a+) maxes at 14 IIRC, DP1.2 maxes at 17 gigabit/second

Tweaktown said:
Dell has included USB Type-C, HDMI 2.0 and miniDP 1.2 ports for display connectivity.
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TT REALLY should have seen that problem in their posting rather than just releasing a canned press release.
 
it may have a DP1.2 for compatibility reasons, but it must have DP1.3, otherwise that would be just stupid for a 4k@120 monitor
i heard but not really looked it up, that Oled have longevity issue because of it's organic componement is it true ?
 
Well the TV lag could just be an LG thing. I haven't been in that business for 4ish years but LG was always terrible at image processing back then. Been one of the main reasons I haven't been salivating to replace my Kuro with one of their OLED sets.

I wonder if the miniDP input is just an extra one instead of the main.
 
alamox said:
it may have a DP1.2 for compatibility reasons, but it must have DP1.3, otherwise that would be just stupid for a 4k@120 monitor
i heard but not really looked it up, that Oled have longevity issue because of it's organic componement is it true ?
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I suppose it is possible Tweaktown was forwarded wrong specifications from Dell. Because it really would be a monumentally idiotic design decision to claim 4K 120Hz and in the same sentence make it nearly technically impossible on interconnect grounds. DP should be backwards compatible always-so if the panel has 1.3 and your device has 1.2 it'll "work" to the lowest maximum. However LOTS of 4K UHD advertised products have pulled dumb crap like this in ads, which is why I'm more prone to believe the spec is legit and the ad-copy is hilariously wrong.

Steve, you got connections everywhere-know anyone at Dell or Tweaktown that could explain away this bandwidth problem of arithmetic (e.g. none on of the TT stated interconnects can actually do 4K@120Hz throughput)? Tweaktown at least needs the problem pointed out on their own article I suppose.



For perspective, here's what LG warranties their OLED TVs for. But that they only warranty it for one year speaks about how well they think of their product. Shoot my BenQ IPS has a 3-year warranty, and BenQ isn't even a major industry player.

LG said:
"The MFG warranty is 1 year parts and 1 year labor. The life expectancy of LG OLED is 30K hours to 50K hours to half brightness. Only coming from the use/on time of the panel; not from being off. That is 7 days a week, 6 hrs a day to reach 14.5 years to 20 years to half brightness. If a customer watches the TV in Vivid mode they will be closer to the 14.5 year number. If the customer has the OLED calibrated (or run in Cinema mode) they will be at the 20 year to half brightness level. Calibration is not only good for panel life but picture quality also; it is a win win! 2016 models will have substantially increased hours that can not be released until product ships, but I expect them to be brighter."
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Couldn't find a copy of Dell's OLED panel warranty online as of now...

EDIT: Another possibility...it uses multiple DP1.2 lines. I think Dell had a "5K" monitor that did that. But that makes for problems as well.
 
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I have had the annoying "Dell monitor goes blank" with my Dell UP3412Q 4K monitor. I have gone through three monitor revisions since it came out. Great monitor, but def not ready for prime time because of the timeout issues in the DP1.2 when it is using MTS. I purchased an Acer 3440x1440 with Freesync. Very happy with it!!!
 
Skripka said:
All OLED TVs that I've seen or heard of have bad input lag, although granted I don't claim to have seen all of them. Odds are their "0.1ms" time is the most rosy distorted number they could cook.
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The advertised 0.1ms is response time, not input lag. Two completely different things.

Monitor manufacturers rarely specify input lag numbers. But I guess they don't need to given how many people today STILL confused the two.
 
Yeah, I figure the 0.1 ms time is pixel transition times and not input lag times. Who cares if it's fast at pixel transitions if it lags a few frames?
 
The LG OLED are decent as far as input lag.(The 2016 models have something like 31ms on 4K 4:4:4 @60Hz.) Why the hate? (They're not as price as this monitor either.)


Getting anything to go near 120hz @4k though..

EDIT: Only DP 1.2. I don't know the spec's off the top of my head but can any one connection handle 120Hz 4:4:4 @ 4K?
 
Daniel_Chang said:
The advertised 0.1ms is response time, not input lag. Two completely different things.

Monitor manufacturers rarely specify input lag numbers. But I guess they don't need to given how many people today STILL confused the two.
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I wasn't confused, I was non-sequitorially leaping topics without enough caffeine. ;)

No matter, 0.1ms response time is a rosy number. Most monitors even claiming 10x that are either lying or distorting their numbers to the point of meaninglessness. I'd honestly expect more from a $5,000USD product in terms of honesty of PR, we won't know of course until reviewers get their hands on it...but it smells rotten from the outset.
 
Honestly, after purchasing LG's latest OLED TV (I bought an e6), I'm switching my choice of this monitor from purchase to hold. The picture quality is nice, but it still has a few issues. I've had image retention issues with things being on the screen for less than 5 minutes, where I had to clear the panel noise, because it just won't go away watching other things. (The image retention is mainly on greys, but I have photoshop open a lot, which has a solid grey background). I never really noticed the input lag, as my normal television had much worse input lag, and as far as a computer monitor, any fast paced things I'd be using my 144 Hz LEDs anyway.
 
I got a LG 65EF9500 OLED a couple of months ago for $3250 and Love it but $5000 for a 30 inch is just a little over the top....lol....once you watch a OLED for any time at all its hard to go back to lcd....
 
Not a bad price for what it is but well outside my budget for a monitor. Hopefully these thing will become more affordable in the next couple of years. At $2k I could consider it.
 
Skripka said:
For perspective, here's what LG warranties their OLED TVs for. But that they only warranty it for one year speaks about how well they think of their product. Shoot my BenQ IPS has a 3-year warranty, and BenQ isn't even a major industry player.
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I think pretty much all TVs come with only a one year warranty. They push extended warranties heavily in the TV market. Monitors are a different story.
 
Even if this performs as it claims, it will still be made like shit internally. I've taken apart dozens of U2410s, U3011s, 3007wfp's. If Dell doesnt have the decency of cleaning off the flux residue on a u3011 digital logic board, they'll probably skip that step on this one too. we're talking a few seconds in a good ultrasonic cleaner. $1500 monitor. what kind of crap is that.
I'll wait for the tftcentral review, where they find out this is a 8bit panel with AFR (not really 10bit) with no hardware calibration, and terrible flicker. Then I'll read about how it does not like coming out of sleep on displayport, has edge lighting instead of full LED backlighting....and I'll continue to keep running my repaired u3011s into the ground.
 
x3sphere said:
I think pretty much all TVs come with only a one year warranty. They push extended warranties heavily in the TV market. Monitors are a different story.
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Just bought a Samsung tv a couple days ago, comes with a 2 year warranty. ofc being in Europe might make a difference.
 
commissioneranthony said:
Even if this performs as it claims, it will still be made like shit internally. I've taken apart dozens of U2410s, U3011s, 3007wfp's. If Dell doesnt have the decency of cleaning off the flux residue on a u3011 digital logic board, they'll probably skip that step on this one too. we're talking a few seconds in a good ultrasonic cleaner. $1500 monitor. what kind of crap is that.
I'll wait for the tftcentral review, where they find out this is a 8bit panel with AFR (not really 10bit) with no hardware calibration, and terrible flicker. Then I'll read about how it does not like coming out of sleep on displayport, has edge lighting instead of full LED backlighting....and I'll continue to keep running my repaired u3011s into the ground.
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OLEDs don't have led edge lit or full array backlighting...different animal!
 
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motqalden said:
Wake me up when they move the decimal point to the left...
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Right? 146dpi is too much for a desktop monitor. 4k minimum for me is 37". I have a 40" and it sits just a little bit higher DPI wise versus the 27" 1440p it replaced. 90-110dpi is the sweet spot for desktop monitors and useable resolution w/o having to resort to scaling.
 
USB-C is the fastest connection currently being produced so that is no surprise there 97.8% DCI-P3 means that the lut table is very impressive. 1.07 billion is almost always a ten bit lut or look up table. My Nec PA241w is that same range and people who look at my monitor get really puzzled and say there monitor does not look like that. Ten bit color will not work without support for it. Outside of the Digital Content Creation Industry which includes photographers these days, is usually something people say why would they need that. Basically a LUT is the amount of steps toward the maximum amplitude the light emitting diode can register. Like on a dimmer switch there are so many clicks even if you don't hear them that give you different levels of light. A LCD display works but have a contoured piece of glass in red blue and green. They turn on and off. All off the back light emits a grey colored light. All on the multiply together to get white, which the back light brightens or darkens. When voltage is apllied to the diodes they simply an extruded resistor that as it moves down the wire increases the resistance. When current is applied the more current the further down the wire it goes the brighter it gets. They usually end up looking like cones inside a light bulb for this reason. A LUT table is how they build different levels of resistance in the wires. Which is why way it is so hard to control it is very small wire with enough changes of resistance they prevent bleed over from one separation to the next. Then they have to control the power being supplied to every diode that makes up each pixel. A pixel is one diode, being shined on one red green blue set of illuminated lenses. Be they made of tempered glass, lead crystal, or some actual piece of corundum. Austrian crystal is used in very high end but I have also seen tempered glass that matches the colors better.

Enizo who makes high end monitors explains the impact on the screen but not how the panels are made.

Maximum Display Colors and Look-Up Tables: Two Considerations When Choosing a Monitor | EIZO

The panels get a sine wave that is a digital stair step that is compared to the video processor in the monitor that matches the stair step to the levels of resistance it can create and where the steps miss you get weird effects. A very fast panel to compare at wider table then the colors coming in that can changed the back light faster to react to a different amount of grey scale needed, and the light that is applied to the lenses which are much faster than the mirrors in dlp. This produces very fast color changes but since light is heat the screen has to be very immune to heat changes, or high resistor value while being as translucent as possible. That is why the jokes about sapphire as a screen. Synthetically built corundum from a single kernel of material, is used to create glass much like sugar crystals in a jar, well slightly more complex but ions binding crystals together with some kind of acetate. But a point one change of black to black means 0.0 to 1.0 to 0.0. A grey to grey which is often used is 0.1 to 0.9 to 0.1 where it never is fully off. Going up to one is not the delay going from 0.0 to 0.1 takes longer than 0.1 to 1.0 and back to 0.1. Going from 0.1 to 0 is fast as the electrically is turned off. One hundredth of a second. So the data has to go to the monitor be compared to what the monitor can display, the power regulation modules are set to supply current based on the decision made then the sine wave data is sent to the OLED or resistors, and to the lenses light source. If you send the signal before the power knows what to supply you get weird artifacts because you are getting color data at the wrong power levels so the colors appear too bright or not bright enough or the wrong shade of color.
 
I'm sorry, but 30" is just too damned small for 4k.

Why would I want all those extra pixels to just waste them by having to scale everything up?

4k only makes sense at 40+"
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I'm sorry, but 30" is just too damned small for 4k.

Why would I want all those extra pixels to just waste them by having to scale everything up?

4k only makes sense at 40+"
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I use 4k at 27". Not even close to being a waste. It's as big a step up from my 27" 1440p as that monitor was from a 27" 1080p.
 
Daniel_Chang said:
I use 4k at 27". Not even close to being a waste. It's as big a step up from my 27" 1440p as that monitor was from a 27" 1080p.
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Disagree. IMHO, anything greater than ~100ppi is wasted on the desktop. It's just making things small and having to scale them up again.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Disagree. IMHO, anything greater than ~100ppi is wasted on the desktop. It's just making things small and having to scale them up again.
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Oh, you play the desktop? I'm talking about gaming. I play games on my PC.

I prefer the size of the desktop on a 27" 1080p panel. It always felt too small on 1440p. On my 4k, I set it to 200% and almost everything looks the size that I want, but sharper. And games, those that I can run in 4k (most of the ones that I own) are absolutely stunning.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Yeah, I figure the 0.1 ms time is pixel transition times and not input lag times. Who cares if it's fast at pixel transitions if it lags a few frames?
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Who cares if it lags? This monitor isn't for Doom (no matter what Megalith says) it's for content creators and color accuracy and great black levels trump response rates for that. That said, 12-18 months from now, it'll probably be half this price.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Disagree. IMHO, anything greater than ~100ppi is wasted on the desktop. It's just making things small and having to scale them up again.
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I've got the 5k and I only scale up 25%. If I had a 30" 4k I wouldn't scale it at all.
 
nilepez said:
Who cares if it lags? This monitor isn't for Doom (no matter what Megalith says) it's for content creators and color accuracy and great black levels trump response rates for that. That said, 12-18 months from now, it'll probably be half this price.
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I care if it lags: what's the point in having a responsive panel and 120Hz input if you can't make use of it?

And who says photographers don't game?
 
Have they figured out the image burn-in on OLED yet? Seems like $5K wasted if you get a permanent taskbar shadow on the screen after a year of usage.
 
Stimpy88 said:
Have they figured out the image burn-in on OLED yet? Seems like $5K wasted if you get a permanent taskbar shadow on the screen after a year of usage.
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Like Plasma before it, it's an inherent flaw of the technology. While there will be tricks and optimizations to mitigate it, the issue will never truly go away.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I care if it lags: what's the point in having a responsive panel and 120Hz input if you can't make use of it?

And who says photographers don't game?
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Market research says so most likely. Not that many photographers who game on $5000 displays.
 
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