Dell Censors Panel lottery info. Share info here.

abcdelight: Don't make the mistake in comparing LCD to CRT for things like photos or especially video, since LCD isn't going to match up.

A lot of the things you mention you'll see in the S-IPS as well, though not moving your head or position to see different effects on the screen; in that respect, S-IPS is a lot like CRT.

I can't speak about the NEC, but I'd play the Dell lottery some more so you have more of a basis for comparison. Not to mention that it's about twice the price.

You can't win if you don't play.
 
Thanks rseiler,

I didn't expect an LCD to be like the CRT but I did think it would be a bit better at the video. Man it's awful. Ever load up a decent video to YouTube and see how trashy it looks ? That's what my videos remind me of going from my CRT to this 2007 .

I did some research and it seems the Philips S-IPS panel used by Dell is described by Philips as having an 8ms G2G (grey to grey) response time. Dell used the 16 ms iso to allow for some other replacement panels they would use sometimes. A "one label fits all" thing was in play. Conversely, the Samsung PVA used by Dell is described by Samsung as having response time of 16 ms. Dell plays generous Santa with the Philips panel and they bring coal with the PVA.

So I could see accepting a PVA for colors and such since even Eizo uses PVA, and contrast is important but the response times between these panels must be wide. I mean I would take a monitor back and gladly eat the restock if video would always be this bad.

I dont expect a masterpiece monitor for 340 USD (on sale) but if I just went to work for the time I waste tickling these issues out I could go buy a big Apple monitor or an Eizo. I stayed home just to take delivery (bad traffic day anyway lol).

I don't read anything into Dell's motivtions but I see their forum is tense and their mod is telling angry people "Dell's position is a 2007FPW is a 2007FPW no matter what's inside" . Well I saw Dell advertise that monitor on its site as an S-ISP just a couple months ago when I planned out new build.

If it read it was (or could be) a PVA now that would be one thing - but they dont say anything despite a long history of reviews and adverts describing that as good S-ISP monitor. Nobody cited it's response time as an issue and now I know why since it wasn't as slow as specs might suggest. I also know why the PVA response is chubby chunkey-munkey time. .

So it was a holiday here and I was on the phone to India trying to take another stab at Dell roulette. I could just go get the Apple or NEC but now I want to try and see this "Good Witch" LCD.

Lol - you woud think after the banding fiasco on this monitor that Dell wouldn't step in the doggie doo again so soon. I was thinking of a laptop from them. Maybe it's Apple time.
 
abcdelight said:
I didn't expect an LCD to be like the CRT but I did think it would be a bit better at the video. Man it's awful. Ever load up a decent video to YouTube and see how trashy it looks ? That's what my videos remind me of going from my CRT to this 2007
Click to expand...
That's because YouTube videos really are trashy, and CRTs mask that. LCDs are better at showing noise and artifacts that are actually there.
 
rseiler said:
A lot of the things you mention you'll see in the S-IPS as well, though not moving your head or position to see different effects on the screen; in that respect, S-IPS is a lot like CRT.
Click to expand...

Had the misfortune of using an older Samsung 710N @ my bro's tonight. It's really quite a treat to see how far LCD's have come. Moving ever so slightly changed the whole screen's color properties. I'm not sure what type of panel, he got it nearly 2 years ago on clearance.
 
abcdelight said:
So I could see accepting a PVA for colors and such since even Eizo uses PVA, and contrast is important but the response times between these panels must be wide. I mean I would take a monitor back and gladly eat the restock if video would always be this bad.
Click to expand...

Eizo uses TN panels even in some screens. They never use and I don't think they ever will use S-PVA and TN's in their high-end CG series. Especially not in their medical grade series :p Imagine a doctor sitting infront of a S-PVA panel with x-ray displayed. He turns his head a little bit changing his viewing angles and suddenly details appear showing a tumor on the pasient. S-PVA on medical grade panels could litteraly kill people.
Same goes with color sensitive work. You sit infront of a S-PVA panel and changes some colors. Then you get some coffee and unfortunately doesn't sit in the same position anymore and gamma has changed in your picture due to angles. Knowning nothing about the fact that the boss saved some $$$ giving you a S-PVA panel instead that are limited due to image changes, you have to start all over again... :p
Eizo and panels :D
 
Jodiuh said:
Had the misfortune of using an older Samsung 710N @ my bro's tonight. It's really quite a treat to see how far LCD's have come. Moving ever so slightly changed the whole screen's color properties. I'm not sure what type of panel, he got it nearly 2 years ago on clearance.
Click to expand...
A search shows that it's apparently a TN, but it sounds a bit like the way some have described PVA here. Not having really followed the LCD world closely before this month, I assumed they'd evolved beyond this sort of thing--all of them, not just some of them--but I guess price pressures have prevented that from happening.


ToastyX said:
That's because YouTube videos really are trashy, and CRTs mask that. LCDs are better at showing noise and artifacts that are actually there.
Click to expand...
"Better" in this sense meaning an overall "worse" experience, of course. I've found that this "better" handling of videos (on my S-IPS) also makes 640x350 Xvids--which all but looked like DVDs on CRT--appear the worse for wear. Brightly lit scenes are fine, but any kind of shadows, even if it's just an indoor scene, has the potential for splotchiness/pixelation/noise/whatever you want to call it. That combined with a less-then-stellar ability to display black levels as effectively, along with the bigger picture (which tends to exaggerate everything), make for a definite step down in this deparment.


abcdelight said:
I did some research and it seems the Philips S-IPS panel used by Dell is described by Philips as having an 8ms G2G (grey to grey) response time. Dell used the 16 ms iso to allow for some other replacement panels they would use sometimes. A "one label fits all" thing was in play. Conversely, the Samsung PVA used by Dell is described by Samsung as having response time of 16 ms. Dell plays generous Santa with the Philips panel and they bring coal with the PVA.
Click to expand...
I knew what the S-IPS really was, but I didn't know the PVA was 16. Very interesting.

BTW, since you mention Apple, do you happen to know what screen types they use (and the speed)? I bet that you know what you're getting from them. I've heard they have a pretty good reputation for displays.
 
abcdelight said:
Dell plays generous Santa with the Philips panel and they bring coal with the PVA.
Click to expand...

That made me laugh, in a "It's funny because it is true" way.
 
Just picked up my 2007WFP Rev03, RT803 V1B18 shipped from Austin, made in Mexico October 2006.

Order placed on the 20th November 2006, shipped 22nd November 2006 via DHL to just south of Nashville. I have noticed a lot of my orders come from Austin, especially monitors.

I place all my orders via a rep, through the small business.


Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I find the stand is too short, monitor sits too close to the desk, Landscape is nice, but is even closer to the desk, I prefer the 1907FP with a TN panel for colour. Go figure.

Hope this helps as I thought I saw a post very recent that showed a different panel from Austin

Best Regards

Bryn
 
Dell is now forever on my shitlist. They are sending me a replacement, and charged my credit card the new price of $399, with no 20% off coupon, and next-day shipping...for a total of $422.94. The one I've got was $338.35 to the door. Un-f'in-believable.

I think my best bet at this point is raising hell until I get a full refund and buy any monitor from anywhere but Dell.
 
ATW said:
Dell is now forever on my shitlist. They are sending me a replacement, and charged my credit card the new price of $399, with no 20% off coupon, and next-day shipping...for a total of $422.94. The one I've got was $338.35 to the door. Un-f'in-believable.

I think my best bet at this point is raising hell until I get a full refund and buy any monitor from anywhere but Dell.
Click to expand...
Something must have gone wrong. The simple thing is to call Customer Care and discuss the situation with them. Be polite, but firm. People DO make mistakes after all.

I don't get why they charged you twice, unless they had to do your return like a second purchase. In my case, they had to. I called them when my 2007WFP arrived with one tiny pixel stuck on blue. I decided I really wanted to upgrade to the 2407WFP. They did that for me, made sure I got a similar discount (since the 2407 only had a 15% discount at the time, they added a $50 coupon on so it was like getting 20% off plus another ten bucks), and when I said I wanted free ground shipping, complied and then upgraded me to standard overnight at no charge. They sent me an e-mail case number in case I had any questions, and sent a UPS driver for the original display. I did e-mail them several days later to ensure my discount was going through, and I just got an e-mail confirmation that the $50 (plus the tax charged on it) had been credited back to my card.

Did you do an exchange, or a rebuy? This doesn't make sense to me under their exchange setup that they'd charge you a second time. Call them up, with the case number for your return, and explain your situation. If the first person you talk to isn't helpful, ask politely to speak to their supervisor (who will have more clout). Also, tell them that you didn't want to pay extra for overnight shipping, but it was tacked on to the new sale. I made sure of my totals before I got off the phone; the default is to send that way (at least for returns, and I told them I didn't want to pay for it. Whereupon I got it for free anyway.

I got great service in my case, but everyone can make a mistake. My experiences with Dell (I've had quite a few, servers, laptops, desktops) are overall good, so I'd encourage you to call them and get them to make it right. One bit of advice: it would have been best to make sure of all of this during your first return call. Still, if you call them back now, they should be able to do something.
 
for some reason i can't get the service menu to come up on my 2001FPs
 
MTXR said:
for some reason i can't get the service menu to come up on my 2001FPs
Click to expand...

I had trouble too until I realized it's a little different that recent Dell FP's:
1) Hold menu and '+' buttons (3rd and 5th buttons from left) while powering on the unit.
2) Press menu button (5th button from left) and select "Factory Reset"
3) Select "Factory" at the bottom of the menu.

However, my service menu shows no indication anywhere whatsoever of panel type. My 2001FP is revision A03, and I can tell it's a SIPS panel.
 
bjoynes said:
Just picked up my 2007WFP Rev03, RT803 V1B18 shipped from Austin, made in Mexico October 2006.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I find the stand is too short, monitor sits too close to the desk
Click to expand...
I wonder how many people keep monitors at desk level? Aren't most all of them too low? There was a thread here in the last couple weeks (not the "Show your LCD setup" one) that talked about this, but I can't find it now. I wish I could, because I'm curious about the proper level.

As I recall, the people in that thread seemed to think low is good, but I distinctly recall reading articles on ergonomics suggesting that the middle of the screen should be just below one's line-of-site.
 
I generally sit about 1.5 to 2.5 feet away depending on what's going on. The top1/4 of the monitor rests directly in front of my eyes w/ a slight upwards angle. I find looking down at the monitor's easier on the eyes.
 
That sounds much like what I heard recommended. Unfortunately, just setting this monitor on a desk puts it (in many cases) a good six inches below what we're talking about.
 
Regarding ergonomics, i could be wrong but i always thought the "proper" viewing height was, feet flat on the floor, back straight, hands on keyboard and the top edge of the monitor was in line with your line of sight...

on another note, dammit! i got a speeding ticket tonight and i found out my 2007WFP was shipped out of Nashville.... :( due to be delivered Wed 29th, but probably will be here sooner... please let it be an S-IPS.... sigh
 
For the 2007WFP... If i were to order them now, what panel will the A03 one come with?
Will it be the S-PVA or S-IPS? Which of the panel is more superior?
 
beckz said:
For the 2007WFP... If i were to order them now, what panel will the A03 one come with?
Will it be the S-PVA or S-IPS? Which of the panel is more superior?
Click to expand...

If you buy a lotto ticket, will you win some kind of prize or not? Lotto implies random chance. Lots of people have received each type lately. S-IPS is much better IMO. But you may be happy with PVA, I am not.
 
Just received my 2007WFPb. I live in Thailand and it comes out of Malaysia. It was made in China. It is a V1B18 RT803 Rev.A03. Looks like S-ISP panel and no dead pixels. Before making the purchase the salesman said "his team confirmed it would be an S-ISP pane."
They are higher priced here, about US$420. No 20% coupon or anything like that.
 
I give up. Replacement is another PM330. I'll just keep it and chalk this up as one of life's mistakes.
 
I wouldn't give up, especially when Dell is the one paying for the return shipping. Im about to try for the third time. If its not an S-IPS panel I will try a fourth after the 21 day gurantee is up. That way I would get a refurb. I think the chances of S-IPS may be higher with refurbs.
 
I retract my last post...I won't be keeping this one. It's got backlight bleed so bad it literally forms an X.
 
Son of a...... well i got my 2007WFPb A03 today :( V1B18 / PM330 , Made in mexico sept 2006. ordered oct 24th 2006.

Funny thing is when ordering it it says the 2007FP, when i looked in the shipping status on dell.com , it showed 2007WFP. Now that i have it in front of me right on the back etched in the plastic shows 2007WFPb , and the invoice / packing slip shows 2007FP... (shrug)

So i'm filling out a return right now. It says 21 days from invoice. Does that mean 21 days from the original invoice ? or its a fresh 21 day eval period each time i exchange it? sorry i'm just tryin to get ready for what seems to be the inevitable... returning it 2 or 3 more times....

if anyone can clarify , i would appreciate it.
thanks all
 
nice thanks for the info... appreciate it...

I've plugged this sucker in and have been testing some things....
1. I didn't notice the tone shifting at first, but after looking at this for a while, taking a break and repeating the process. I think i definatly notice it.
2. My videos, movies look like crap to me, ghosting is apparent, i guess that is a response time issue. The different modes don't seem to improve things much but maybe i'm missing something....
3. When looking at these forums expanded fully to use the solid colors to test, i feel like i'm going cross eyed. The tones shift like mad from head on and also from angles from what i have experienced. I'm a web/graphic designer so color tone is an issue for me.
4. Backlight bleed doesn't seem to bad on this unit, although definatly noticable when on a fully black screen.
5. the colors are oversaturated, i almost feel like i'm watching an old TV set where the colors are fugged, and someone has turned the color all the way up. blacks are black but whoah, i'm blinded looking at things on here. very blarey

I was hoping to possibly just avoid the annoyance and keep this thing but i don't think i can like this. I've taken some standard shots of the screen that i've seen others take. Again maybe i'm missing something, if anyone would care to comment on the images i've taken so i have someone to bounce my opinions off of i would appreciate it. All comments welcome.
(2007WFPb A03 V1B18 / PM330 , Made in mexico sept 2006. ordered oct 24th 2006)


(headon, right angle, left angle)








Here's my replacement monitor
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030344799&postcount=306
.
.
 
It just gets better and better. The return shipping label is not for a common carrier like UPS, Fedex, or DHL...it's' Airborne Express! I am now going to have to pay out of my pocket to ship back one, possibly two monitors. Someone please, tell me this is all one big joke.
 
Thats correct actually. DHL and Airborne Express are the same company. Thats what they sent me too.
 
Hey all,

I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to let you all know of my experience with these monitors. My friend ordered a 2007WFP a few months back and got the S-IPS LM201W01. We loved the monitor and had a great time gaming on it.

Last week I ordered the 2007WFP for myself and was disappointed to see that I received the S-PVA PM330. I had my friend bring his monitor over and we did some direct testing. Since he's not picky about these things, he offered to switch monitors with me if I wanted.

Well, what I found was this. His S-IPS monitor did have a slightly better response time and a bit less backlight bleed. However, whenever I looked at his monitor from slightly above, below, or to the sides of center, I noticed that the corners and edges appeared to be a dark purple color. In fact, I couldn't look at the monitor form any point, even dead on, and not see some discoloration at the edges.

After switching back and forth several times, I decided to keep my S-PVA monitor. My friend, who was watching on the sidelines, also thought my monitor looked better to his "amateur" eyes. Even though I play dark games like FEAR and Quake 4, the bleed doesn't really bother me cause it's out at the corners, and not in the center where I'm primarily looking. I have to be thinking about the bleed for it to bother me. And the response time is really, very slight in difference to the other monitor. I really have to try to notice it. Overall, I like the coloration (or lack of dis-coloration) and the viewing angles better on the S-PVA and it outweighs the slight negatives of response time and bleed.

Just my opinion, but thought you all should know. I was stressing over all this, and wasting a lot of time and energy, but now I've decided and am just enjoying my monitor. So I'm not sure if Dell's trying to pull one over on us or not, but I actually like their new monitor pick better. I would judge the monitors on their own merits, and not on whether they happen to be S-IPS or S-PVA. And let's not forget that these are relatively inexpensive monitors - we're not going to get top of the line no matter what Dell we buy. Having tried a few other monitors in this price range, I still like both of these Dell's better.

So, just a thought, but relieve yourself of some stress and enjoy the monitor you get. Both are really quite good! ;)
 
ethan, it sounds like there's something wrong with your friend's IPS, so I think you were comparing an apple with a rotten orange.

BTW, you're the first person I've ever seen actually compliment PVA's viewing angles (for the normal response, see a couple posts above yours), which from all accounts seem disastrous, but when you're comparing it against an IPS that has a purple effect, I can understand.

dnsrunner, good luck on that lottery; some (maybe most) of those problems will go away if you win.
 
The 2007wfp A02 s-ips i used to own also had this purpling in the corners from any angle, it was very annoying for me, refund took 2 weeks also :p
Why are soo many people obsessed with their dell lcd's lol, ive had both 2007wfp and 2407wfp, they both were junk IMO.
 
I noticed that purple effect also but for me it's only noticeable at extreme angles; when looking straight on or somewhat off it looks fine; then again, I sit pretty far from my monitor so it's less angled for me.

Seems like the tables might be turning on the S-IPS's... :p but then again not everyone sees the monitors the same.

@dnsrunner
what type of panel is that?
 
Purple tint is known effect of high angle viewing of dark color on S-IPS. To me it is MUCH less noticable than the washout and tone shifting of PVA. I can't stand using PVA at all. My first was PVA. I sold it at a loss a week later.

For me PVA<TN<IPS. PVA I wouldn't use if someone gave me it for free. It is just unusable for me.

People are different and I have said many times in this thread that most people probably won't notice the difference.

This is the first time I have ever seen someone prefer PVA over S-IPS. That seems very strange to me. Samsung plant?
 
KCE said:
@dnsrunner
what type of panel is that?
Click to expand...
It is a 2007WFPb A03 V1B18 / PM330 , Made in mexico sept 2006. ordered oct 24th 2006 shipped out of nashville

*update: approved for my return, Dell is shipping me another new one at their expense, overnight supposedly after it gets processed (5-7 days so they told me). When i get the new one the old one i ship back. at least that is what i think she said, her accent was so thick i had to really concentrate on what she was trying to tell me. ;)
Wish me luck. hopin monitor #2 will be the one....
 
Snowdog said:
Purple tint is known effect of high angle viewing of dark color on S-IPS. To me it is MUCH less noticable than the washout and tone shifting of PVA. I can't stand using PVA at all. My first was PVA. I sold it at a loss a week later.

For me PVA<TN<IPS. PVA I wouldn't use if someone gave me it for free. It is just unusable for me.

People are different and I have said many times in this thread that most people probably won't notice the difference.

This is the first time I have ever seen someone prefer PVA over S-IPS. That seems very strange to me. Samsung plant?
Click to expand...

You're the first one I've seen that would prefer TN over *PVA, so I'd say everyone has their opinion. I didn't have an S-IPS panel to compare to the S-PVA 2007WFP I had, but the panel looked great. And the S-PVA 2407WFP I upgraded to looks quite good too.

TN generally has less color accuracy thatn PVA (99% of TN panels being 6-bit rather than 8-bit) and has less of a viewing angle than PVA, plus a tendency to have a yellow tint at angles. There are reasons they don't use TN panels for high-end displays, but do use PVA's.

I'd guess your experiences are based on one PVA panel, but, like every other panel technology, quality varies from panel to panel, even for the same make/model.
 
I have seen some TN panels that are much better than this PVA. Now I do mean some, not all. My PVA 2007WFP has very bad yellowing and contrast loss even at minor angles and the color shifting with dark colors is just hideous. Not to mention input lag seems to be more common with PVA panels, and I wouldn't even say the colors are that much better after seeing some of the newer TN panels. They have really improved.
 
LoneWolf said:
You're the first one I've seen that would prefer TN over *PVA, so I'd say everyone has their opinion.

TN generally has less color accuracy thatn PVA (99% of TN panels being 6-bit rather than 8-bit) and has less of a viewing angle than PVA,

I'd guess your experiences are based on one PVA panel, but, like every other panel technology, quality varies from panel to panel, even for the same make/model.
Click to expand...

I am far from the only one who has noticed that real world TN often exceeds PVA. I have owned two PVA panels. The Dell 2405fpw and Dell 2007fp. They were both equally hideous with ridiculous viewing angle anomalies. I have examined probably another 20 panels of all types in store and behavior is pretty much universal for viewing angles. So my judgment is not based on one PVA panel.

I now own a cheap TN screen that is much better in the most important attribute to me: Viewing angles. Viewing angles won't vary from the exact same panel type/model as it is physics of crystal alignment that makes each panel type that determines viewing angle anomalies.

S-IPS is by far the best.
TN is second because it beats VA panels (by far) in horizontal consistency.

Horizontal viewing angles are the critical element for me. Because using a shifty PVA panel produces a kind of false-3d/glare that makes me feel like I am cross-eyed looking at Magic 3d poster. It is very tiring. After 20 years of computer use, only PVA panels give me a headache, that I attribute to this tiring/annoying anomaly.

Yes TN is usually 6bit + dither, but it looks great, on newer monitors, it only shows up on a gradient test and the occasional web page. I will take a bit of banding over a shifty panel that gives me a headache any day. But I will only buy S-IPS from here out.

Regardless of what you prefer, it is still completely wrong that dell switches these up as if they were equivalent.
 
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