Dell 2709W

daveswantek

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do you guys think its worth it to upgrade to this monitor from a 2407wfp-hc? it would probably cost me about $100 more. your thoughts?

I upgraded from a 2407WFP and I am glad I did. The difference in size is more than you would guess.

A01 - October 2008 - Made in Mexico

IOne thing I did find kind of strange. When I took it out of the box, the VGA cable was still connected to the screen. The thumb-screws were hard as hell to loosen ... I needed to use a screwdriver to loosen them, so I'm wondering if maybe one of their testers had the same problem, and just gave up.

Anyway, those are my first thoughts. For me .... it's a keeper.

Yah; I noticed the same thing, and it makes no sense at all. I mean think about it; if your going to connect the VGA cable, why not the power cable? Nothing should be connected, because it makes it harder to unpack.

Amazon has a good price on the Eye-One Display 2. I will get mine early next week.

Dave
 

atheron

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Oct 9, 2008
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To begin with I'm a roadracing mechanic and if you're telling me that you are standing on racetrack and can't notice that one bike is 0.3 seconds ahead of another you need your brain examined
The only problem with You're analogy is ... 30 ms is 0.030 not 0.3.I bet even Me with this defective brain could see a full 1/3 second delay.:p but its all good.
 

daveswantek

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Continuing from my previous post I've got the Spyder 2 Express now and calibrated the monitor
It looks allot better now, colours not screaming at me as much as before... It's still too warm though, but much closer to what it should be...

I've reduced the brightness from my previous setting down to 0 now, of course this makes the monitor take a very long time to warm-up but once it is warm (ca 30 minutes) it looks much better

And to clarify about the mouse lag I said I could feel; this is only noticeable for me for about a minute or so using the monitor, after that my brain adjusts to this new feel and it does not annoy me, at no point does it make me unable to hit buttons or stuff like that
However running the monitor next to my Eizo S2000 is out of the question because then the lag is very noticeable since the Dell is behind on all operations, and to the naysayers that said that lag this low is impossible to detect by the human brain because it has an "act" time of about 300ms you are thinking about it way wrong
To begin with I'm a roadracing mechanic and if you're telling me that you are standing on racetrack and can't notice that one bike is 0.3 seconds ahead of another you need your brain examined
Perhaps you see where I'm getting at with this; as you can see one bike going past you at 200KM/H you can also with a timer track a bike that is just a couple milliseconds behind and relay this info the "your" rider by giving him the times on a board
The comparison with two monitors is the same, since you are seeing the two at the same time you do notice the lag, and as I said the lag is not noticeable if I turn off my Eizo, however the lag is still there and therefore I always miss my enemies in Quake3 Arena because my shots with the Rocket Launcher or even more so the Railgun is always ca 40ms behind them
The reaction time you however is quoting is that of yourself when driving a car, when for example a deer comes up on the road it is said to take ca 300ms or so for the brain to react and then press the brake pedal down, but this is very much unlike what the brain is doing here
Because clicking on stuff and shooting enemies is very much an automated task for your brain (if you are good at it)
Just like it is for a professional bike rider, his reaction time will be much less than 300ms, 300ms at 200KM/H is 16.6 meters travelled, yet they don't crash into each other in corners when they all have to break even though they have much less than one meters safety distance!
(Sorry for the long winding post, just trying to get this delay we are talking about into perspective)

I agree with what you are saying about the brain adjusting, but I think your analogy is suspect. When you mention the stop watch you are admitting that the brain can not detect the time interval accuratly. Once you use the stop watch long enough you sort of calibrate the brain so that you can equate the distance between the bikes to the time interval. I raced go karts for several years, so I know how important the stopwatch is, especially on a track you are unfimilliar with.

I am not saying that input lag is insignificant. I just think several people on here blow it out of proportion. The thing I really don't get is why people would look at the lag on a Dell S-PVA pannel, because they are known for having a good bit of lag. If you are a pro. gamer then you have to go with a CRT or TN panel. I think the real problem is that most people want one panel to do it all and such a thing just does not exist.

For anyone looking at 2709w I will say I am very pleased with mine, but I am not an avid online gamer.

I have a CRT so if I can get my camera to take a short enough exposure I will post the results.

Dave
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
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Ice009; Atleast the Spyder 2 Express is not able to setup different profiles if you are running dual monitors, it is however doable with WinColor
You first create one ICC profile with the Spyder software, then you rename or move this one out of the way (It's in; C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color\Spyder2express.icm)
Next you calibrate your other monitor, now you have two ICC files, and using the WinColor software from Microsoft you are able to apply them to both monitors I have been told, however it does not support Windows XP x64 so I have been unable to test it :(

daveswantek; Yea, My VGA cable was also connected to the monitor when it arrived...
And I'm looking at lag on this monitor for one reason, I didn't know it existed before I bought it and got it home, I had not heard about it before...
Granted I could have done some research but Dell could also have saved me the trouble by mentioning that the monitor indeed does have this lag... (And so could all other monitor manufacturers)

atheron; I did say in my long winding post that 0.3 seconds = 300ms
 

Ice009

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Ice009; Atleast the Spyder 2 Express is not able to setup different profiles if you are running dual monitors, it is however doable with WinColor
You first create one ICC profile with the Spyder software, then you rename or move this one out of the way (It's in; C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color\Spyder2express.icm)
Next you calibrate your other monitor, now you have two ICC files, and using the WinColor software from Microsoft you are able to apply them to both monitors I have been told, however it does not support Windows XP x64 so I have been unable to test it :(

daveswantek; Yea, My VGA cable was also connected to the monitor when it arrived...
And I'm looking at lag on this monitor for one reason, I didn't know it existed before I bought it and got it home, I had not heard about it before...
Granted I could have done some research but Dell could also have saved me the trouble by mentioning that the monitor indeed does have this lag... (And so could all other monitor manufacturers)

atheron; I did say in my long winding post that 0.3 seconds = 300ms

I'm looking at either an Eye One Display 2 or a Spyder3 Pro and will be using Windows Vista home premium 64bit. Would you be able to do it with either of those calibrators and that OS?
 
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The Spyder 3 Pro lists compatibility with both Vista64 and Dual monitor setups that can be calibrated independently
But others in this thread said the Eye One Display 2 is better so maybe better to wait for some more feedback :)
 

daveswantek

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daveswantek; Yea, My VGA cable was also connected to the monitor when it arrived...
And I'm looking at lag on this monitor for one reason, I didn't know it existed before I bought it and got it home, I had not heard about it before...
Granted I could have done some research but Dell could also have saved me the trouble by mentioning that the monitor indeed does have this lag... (And so could all other monitor manufacturers)

Yes; exactly. No lag spec is a common complaint on this forum. Another common complaint is the lack of calibration from the factory. There is no excuse for either one.

Most people are buying TN pannels these days, so they are unknowingly buying lag free monitors. Still lag should be called out in the specs, because it effects what you can and cannot do with the display.

Sorry you had to learn about this, it would be better if it did not exist.

Dave
 
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Oct 19, 2008
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Hi, I'm living in the UK, could anyone tell me the best place to buy the monitor from? The Dell store have it at £440 until the end of October. Does anyone know what is likely to happen to the price after this? It seems unlikely they would put it back to the RRP of £586. I could get one from eBay and save around £20, but I expect I'd end up with an A00 version. Any advice/recommendations would be much appreciated.

Edit- the other problem with the dell site is that they're quoting a 3 week delivery date
 

uptown

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Hi, I'm living in the UK, could anyone tell me the best place to buy the monitor from? The Dell store have it at £440 until the end of October. Does anyone know what is likely to happen to the price after this? It seems unlikely they would put it back to the RRP of £586. I could get one from eBay and save around £20, but I expect I'd end up with an A00 version. Any advice/recommendations would be much appreciated.

I'd stick with Dell for warranty/revision reasons. As for the price, Dell has bumped the US price up and down between a higher and lower prices (I think $899 and $699) since the product's launch. I would imagine whatever price they off you now will return if you're not in a hurry and don't want to buy right now. You may be able to take advantage of some holiday coupons if you want to wait until late November or early December ... but there's no guarantee of that.
 

amcl

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Aug 27, 2008
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I'm looking at either an Eye One Display 2 or a Spyder3 Pro and will be using Windows Vista home premium 64bit. Would you be able to do it with either of those calibrators and that OS?

I'm using the Eye-One Display 2 (i1Match v3.6.2) in Vista x64 with dual monitor display without any problems. One point I should make is that there may be executables or services in your startup, e.g. adobe gamma, video card .exe's, etc, that might overwrite the LUT - I had to manually disable my nvidia startup files using msconfig including an nvidia service to make it work properly on reboot. I used the LUT app found at link to verify my color profile was, in fact, loaded.
 
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Oct 14, 2008
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Dell 2709W Rev A01 manufactured in Czech Republic week 40 lag testing;

Settings used; Canon 40D with 50mm f1.4mm lens set at 1/1000 shutter speed
CRT monitor; IBM G74 manufactured August 1998

Software used; Virtual Stopwatch Pro v3.18
Number of photos used for test; 19
Some photos where taken using a background in Windows, other with just the blue background and finally some with Rthdribl running beneath the timer
The Dell was run at it's native resolution of 1920x1200 and the CRT thus panning in Clone Mode on my brothers 7900GT in Win2K3 Server
The Dell's brightness was set to 0 and the "mode" was standard
Average lag of Dell monitor vs CRT; 55ms

Quake3 Arena was run at 1280x1024 for both monitors, no scaling was used on the Dell; Meaning I had black borders on all sides...
It was in both cases very difficult to take good pictures of the CRT with my camera at such a fast shutter speed, the CRT is showing it's age and has quite poor brightness, therefore it is very dark below the line which was refreshed on the previous refresh (look at the pictures and you will understand what I mean)

In picture IMG_1490.JPG you can see that I am dead on the CRT monitor, while on the Dell the rocket has not hit me yet...

In picture IMG_1483.JPG I have fired a rocket on the CRT, but on the Dell this has not been shown yet; I still have the rocket in my inventory...

In picture IMG_1478.JPG I have killed grunt on the CRT, this has not been shown on the LCD yet

In picture IMG_1472.JPG there is a stray rocket that has flown a longer distance on the CRT than on the LCD

You can download an archive with all these images right here; http://hem.spray.se/hanzzzon/Dell2709W-Lagtest.rar
 
Last edited:

nick8571

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Dec 24, 2006
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203
Hi, I'm living in the UK, could anyone tell me the best place to buy the monitor from? The Dell store have it at £440 until the end of October. Does anyone know what is likely to happen to the price after this? It seems unlikely they would put it back to the RRP of £586. I could get one from eBay and save around £20, but I expect I'd end up with an A00 version. Any advice/recommendations would be much appreciated.

Edit- the other problem with the dell site is that they're quoting a 3 week delivery date
You could try PcBuyIt - £428 at the moment, next-day delivery, includes a full 3-year on-site warranty with Dell, plus a no-dead-pixel guarantee.

Disclaimer: I've never ordered from them myself, but I've heard good things from those who have... :)
 
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lol man made me check it again. And I can take a pic if you like. Rev A02 Oct Made in Mexico. The other was A01 Sept. After letting it warm up I can see a hint of BLB in the same top left corner. But I really have look.

Now I have no idea whats different from a00-a02. If someone knows please share. My main reason for return was I had a heck of a time turning it on. This one WOW my finger is over a 1in away and the light comes on.




does it really exist?:rolleyes::eek: Maybe you have found an input lag of 30ms vs a lag of 50ms found by Per Hansson cause you have a rev02 and not a rev01, is it possible ? :confused::confused::confused:
 

HFrook

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Oct 18, 2008
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Howdy folks. I receive this monitor tomorrow and currently have a 2001fp. Are any of you using a a dual setup with an AGP card? I am trying to figure out the best AGP card for a photoshop user such as myself with this new 2709 and the 2001fp. Also, I want to get the colors as accurate as possible so that when I print off my photos, they look the same as I see on the screen, any of you here heavy photoshop users? Looks like the majority are recommending the Spyder Express 2 for calibration. Sorry for the boatload of thoughts/questions, its 1am and I'm half dead.
 
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ordered mine too, was teared apart between the 2709w and the hp 2475w, seems that the hp has a bit more problems. ( and maybe because I saw the 2709 with my own eyes, a friend of me bought 2 of them :) )
 
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You could try PcBuyIt - £428 at the moment, next-day delivery, includes a full 3-year on-site warranty with Dell, plus a no-dead-pixel guarantee.

Disclaimer: I've never ordered from them myself, but I've heard good things from those who have... :)

I've just heard back from PcBuyIt saying their monitors are A00 and that Dell have not released a A01. Think I might go through Dell via Quidco as that should save me £30 and take it to around £410, I may have to wait a while but at least I'll get a new revision.
 

Ice009

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Jun 22, 2008
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I'm using the Eye-One Display 2 (i1Match v3.6.2) in Vista x64 with dual monitor display without any problems. One point I should make is that there may be executables or services in your startup, e.g. adobe gamma, video card .exe's, etc, that might overwrite the LUT - I had to manually disable my nvidia startup files using msconfig including an nvidia service to make it work properly on reboot. I used the LUT app found at link to verify my color profile was, in fact, loaded.

I should also have said they'll be two different brand monitors. I don't know if that makes any difference in regards to colour proflies? than having two of the exact same monitor in a dual set up? The reason for the different brand is I am thinking of getting a TN panel for gaming to pair with it if I can't handle the lag of the Dell.

btw I will be using an ATI HD4870 video card too. Just ordered a new system.
 

10e

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The only time it's an issue in my mind, is when you have dual monitors, and one is wide gamut, and the other is not, but only in FireFox 3 because when you enable color management, it only allows use of one profile which you pick in the GUI. So if you pick a wide gamut profile, the colors on the standard gamut monitor become very desaturated due to improper color mapping. No biggie though.

I will be posting different profiles in the near future with different pre-sets like AMCL did, if you want to try them.. I just have been playing a lot with different calibration suites to see what results I like best.

BTW my input lag compared to CRT was just over 41 ms on average. The worst was 63ms (four frames) and best was 31ms (two frames) on an nVidia 9600GT in clone mode at 1920x1200, so it's in line with Prad's measurements. It was generally closer to 2 frames most of the time and four frames only 15% of the time. I'll post the actual numbers later.

With all the other features on this screen, I have to say the input lag doesn't really bother me, and the gaming I do on it is primarily console, where 40ms doesn't have a huge effect. I've seen worse. :)

I should also have said they'll be two different brand monitors. I don't know if that makes any difference in regards to colour proflies? than having two of the exact same monitor in a dual set up? The reason for the different brand is I am thinking of getting a TN panel for gaming to pair with it if I can't handle the lag of the Dell.

btw I will be using an ATI HD4870 video card too. Just ordered a new system.
 

HFrook

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10e: Can you recommend any specific AGP card for someone as myself with the 2709 (received today) and a 2001fp? I mainly will use the pc for photo editing and then web browsing. Ty.
 

azholic

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Oct 17, 2008
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I received my monitor today. My revision is A02 mfc in Oct. 2008 made in Mexico. I thought that the one guy, who mentioned he got the A02, was joking, but it was true. A02 exists. I thought even A01 is fairly new, but already A02? guess I'm lucky. :)
 

Mav451

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10e-

So it looks like A01 is just under 3 frames in terms of an average input lag. Which is basically the same the 2405 I have now. :Hrmph_icon
 
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received mine, no dead pixels so far , a little bleeding on top right corner, but I only saw it on a full black screen
little darker on each side.

It looks pretty big, coming from an 19 inch crt and bright :)


will post a few pictures as soon as possible
 

amcl

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I received my monitor today. My revision is A02 mfc in Oct. 2008 made in Mexico. I thought that the one guy, who mentioned he got the A02, was joking, but it was true. A02 exists. I thought even A01 is fairly new, but already A02? guess I'm lucky. :)

Now we're all wondering what the differences are between A01 and A02.
 

HFrook

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Mine is the A02 from mexico as well. Adjusting it now as the colors are WAY off as everyone else mentioned.
 

10e

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If you aren't playing games those ATI 3650 or 3850 AGP cards should fit the bill quite nicely.

The 3850 is actually not bad at playing games either but it's a bit more.

Both should have no problem working on this monitor.

10e: Can you recommend any specific AGP card for someone as myself with the 2709 (received today) and a 2001fp? I mainly will use the pc for photo editing and then web browsing. Ty.
 

10e

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Mine is an A00, to be honest, but not sure about the A01.Per Hansson mentioned his didn't seem any better, and judging from the pictures it doesn't look any better.

You might be better off with one of those HP LP2475 monitors for lower input lag or maybe the 2408WFP A01, thought that might be debatable. :(

10e-

So it looks like A01 is just under 3 frames in terms of an average input lag. Which is basically the same the 2405 I have now. :Hrmph_icon
 
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got mine this morning. that's a rev01 manufacted in cz in october with a dead pixel. so it's going to return back to dell :mad:
 

HFrook

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If you aren't playing games those ATI 3650 or 3850 AGP cards should fit the bill quite nicely.

The 3850 is actually not bad at playing games either but it's a bit more.

Both should have no problem working on this monitor.

Will a dual DVI card be noticeably different? I have a Radeon 9800 Pro right now, running the 2709 via dvi and the 2001fp via VGA. I want the views to be as clean and accurate as possible color and clarity wise. Thanks.
 

10e

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A dual DVI card will definitely be better than 1 VGA + 1 DVI. Most monitors look a fair bit sharper and clearer under DVI than VGA these days.

I would recommend 100% using a Dual-DVI card.

Will a dual DVI card be noticeably different? I have a Radeon 9800 Pro right now, running the 2709 via dvi and the 2001fp via VGA. I want the views to be as clean and accurate as possible color and clarity wise. Thanks.
 

HFrook

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Oct 18, 2008
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Thank you kind sir. Please keep us posted on your findings with calibration settings! Will I be able to get the colors the same on both monitors and accurate for photoshop with the tool you are using? Right now when i load my custom proof setup in CS2 and drag a photo from the 2709 to the 2001fp, the colors all of a sudden are way more saturated on the 2001fp.

How can i use the 2001fp in Portrait mode (rotated 90 degrees)? I try to go into rotation in the adapter settings and it wont allow it! Thanks again everyone, 360 via hdmi looks great on this beast, I am just trying to figure out how to get the sound to work now.
 
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