Dell 2709W

Jaa-Yoo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
137
:(

Thats what happened to me. Day it was supposed to ship I got the dreaded "notification".

Yep, got my notification today, its been moved to the 17th. I needed this delivered by the 15th so it could be packed in with another shipment for export. *sigh* Gonna be even longer now.
Ive ordered monitors, laptops and desktops from dell many times over the past 5 years and this is the first time ive ever had something delayed. Some items would even be deIivered before the ship date! I guess they spoiled me with that kind of service... bastards.
 

atheron

n00b
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
8
My 2709 was suppose to ship today,I got the dreaded delayed message also. now shows the 17th as ship date,guess I have too look at my samsung 2693hm another 2 weeks
argghh I hate that monitor, worst computer purchase ever:(
 

10e

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
3,383
Just wanted to add my impressions and a few photos of the 2709W. I am not basing them on the fact that I received it for $599.99 Canadian plus tax. I am looking at it from the full price point of view (currently around $900). Mine is a Revision A00

Panel quality

I would rate it as good to very good. Mine came with almost no BLB and no dead or stuck pixels or sub-pixels. There is a tiny bit of a "flashlight" at the top right. The initial brightness of 50 is too high, so down to 10% it went. I left it in "standard" preset mode for most uses. Color calibration is not a strong point of this monitor, but that is to be expected these days, and not uncommon much to my dismay. I am still tweaking colors via the custom menu here and there to see if I can improve it manually first.

My screen doesn't seem brighter on either side in regards to mid or bright level hues, nor does there seem to be a "one side pink, other side green issue" with whites. Maybe a tiny bit on the left side if at extreme angles, but unless I'm specifically searching for it, not likely to be visible in general use. I did not notice any ghosting or excessive motion blur. The panel seems sufficiently fast too, and overdrive does not seem "overcooked" either, so no "inverse trails" on fast moving objects.

Dark color gamma shift seems lessened over earlier MVA panels I have seen. Due to larger pixels and text, I can sit back a bit further which lessens the angle from my eyes to the corners, so I can read this forum on this monitor quite comfortably with only a hint of the "3d grey" effect common on *VA style panels. I sit about 30" or 75 cm from the screen. Getting closer does amplify the effect a bit on HardForums. I would estimate that 27" is the sweet spot for VA panels from what I've seen here.

Black levels are excellent both on and off angles. At 10% brightness the Extreme angle viewing does not bring on the glowing black I've seen from MVA panels. Black level at 0% brightness is 0.12 cdm/2 according to BasicColor and Eye One D2. The contrast ratio is a generally a very high 1200:1 at almost all settings unless you lower contrast. At 0% brightness and standard preset mode I received 1166:1 at 0% brightness, and 1300:1 at 15% brightness, which was around 170cdm/2 white level. This is the best contrast I've ever seen on a desktop monitor. Using the same Eye One D2 and BasicColor combo, I was able to achieve a very low 0.31 DE94 (delta E 94 which measures color accuracy) which is a fabulous result, and on-par color wise with many high-quality screens. A delta E 94 of 1 on average is considered excellent.

Here's a photo at one second exposure beside the LCD2690WUXI-BK which has excellent off-angle blacks. NEC is on the left/closest. Both monitors are lined up and set to same white level brightness (around 165 cdm/2), and the 2709W's angle is purposefully a bit more extreme for worst case scenario:

2864680040_3172cc49e6.jpg


Here's an on-angle one second shot with NEC on the left:

2863805253_bb4f3b6697.jpg


Black crush is not very evident (if at all) on this screen. Black crush is defined simply as dark colors fading into black causing detail loss and "wash out". At standard picture mode, 5% brightness and default (50%) contrast all boxes in Lagom's test page are quite visible. Here is a photo on angle:

2863805267_e9c72e5030_b.jpg


Here's a photo off-angle to show a bit of the off-angle grey brightening:

2863805291_0156e47364_b.jpg


Cameras generally amplify these effects, but there is no perceivable black crush on this screen. Some details become more evident at angles but they are still there straight on, which to me is the most important. So off-angle PVA washout is there to a small degree, but on-angle black crush is not.

Text Quality is as good as it can be for an S-PVA panel, but due to the size is no issue. I detect no haloing of text at default sharpness level of 50% with black text in front of grey or white backgrounds (something I've seen with MVA). It not TN or IPS sharp by any means, but expected for S-PVA.

These are the funny PVA pixels from a dark grey background:

2931786612_dbff51b09e_o.jpg


Here is a close up of VA text (on right) next to IPS text:

2672173433_fb51b73d8b_b.jpg


I didn't notice any backlight flickering in normal use and the only thing about the backlight that bugs me is at anywhere between 0 and 10% it takes a half hour to warm up to a decent level and until then, whites look a tiny bit "grey/greenish". Not a big deal, but I don't want to crank it up to 250cdm/2 brightness to get it warmed up. The NEC warms up quite a bit quicker at minimum panel brightness within 15 minutes. Small pet peeve, but nonetheless there.

AV connectors and PS3

The cool thing about this monitor is that the AV connectors have some features which make them very useful. BTW the HDMI connector has full range HDMI and no problem with black level so I don't know why PRAD.DE was concerned with that. Some presets change the darkness of blacks in both video and graphics mode, but there is always a usable mode either in graphics or video mode for HDMI and component.

For example, the HDMI connector has a graphics mode and a video mode and it can be manually switched for all progressive (non-interlaced) modes. I like this because it allows the monitor to be forced into 16:9 mode (ie. for 480p), 1:1, fill, and aspect display modes. The graphics mode has ZERO overscan, and the video mode has about 2.5% which is still acceptable.

Both modes have fill aspect ratios, but graphics mode has a 1:1 and "aspect" mode, whereas the video mode does 4:3 or 16:9 so any content can be made into 16:9 ratio by switching the monitor into video mode and changing to 16:9. The component connector only does video mode for Wii or other component sources (giving 4:3 and 16:9 settings)

Watching a DVD from a DVD player through component should be fairly close in quality to your favorite TV, though with less video processing resulting in some graininess or noise.

Here are some photos:

Graphics mode 1080p no overscan over HDMI from Ps3 in aspect scaling mode:

2930867639_4d9f3ac338.jpg


Video mode 1080i with slight overscan over HDMI from PS3 in 16:9 mode. 1080p in "video" mode is identical in terms of overscan/cropping:

2930867655_e08cd9b2ed.jpg


Here's RDJ in Iron Man lounging around lazily. I'm glad he's clean again and acting. Blur is induced by my nervous tick :)

2930867659_c41d8fda7b_b.jpg


Concerning Xbox 360 over HDMi I have no reason to think that it will not work flawlessly as well.

I also hooked up a 720p/1080i digital cable box to the screen through both component and HDMI, and it worked flawlessly through the screen. The "analog audio" passthrough also worked well, allowing me to use the cable box or PS3 through HDMI, and have the three headphone jacks on the back of the 2709W pass sound out through surround PC speakers. A great addition for those who don't have dolby digital or DTS surround, and just want to listen to their HDMI PS3 or Xbox 360 in surround.

Input Lag

I decided to run a "double input lag" screen setup, where one timer is on the top half of the screen, and another on the bottom. I received an average of 39.5ms which is almost exactly 2.5 frames behind. For me this is acceptable for console and PC single player gaming, but for hard core input lag haters, it is not optimal. I am fairly aware of input lag, and do notice it on this screen, but it doesn't bother me. Here are the numbers I received:

3430863202_04797a13c3.jpg


I specifically added half a frame to a number that was in transition to give almost a "worst case scenario", which is why you see some 39ms numbers, 25ms numbers and 53ms numbers. I felt it was a bit more accurate than just throwing out the pictures that weren't completely legible.

So far after nearly 8 months of use I've been very happy with the monitor in general use, and other than the slight input lag, has presented me with no trouble or issues over this time.
 
Last edited:

daveswantek

[H]ard|Gawd
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10e;

Thanks for a good and fair review. I think you mentioned that you have rev A00 in a previous post, you may want to add that here as well. It will be interesting to see what differences are in rev A01 if any.

It sounds like those of us that got this for $700 did pretty good.

Thanks

Dave
 

atheron

n00b
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
8
I have a 2709 on order and was wondering how the audio switching works.I want to have my pc connected via dvi,and an xbx 360 via hdmi.the monitor will switch the audio right?
thanks
 

Ice009

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
93
Thanks 10e. One of the other things I want to know is what the lag is on it.
 

10e

2[H]4U
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Messages
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When I am able to bring my CRT monitor up from the basement I will let you know, but it is definitely more than my NEC which is average 32ms, and I can feel it in general use.

Right now my left wrist won't allow me carrying an 80 lb monitor, thus no input lag testing.

Thanks 10e. One of the other things I want to know is what the lag is on it.
 

Jaa-Yoo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
137
Thanks for the write-up 10e, it looks like my money was well spent. I hope the input lag results arent too bad. :)
 

Ice009

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
93
When I am able to bring my CRT monitor up from the basement I will let you know, but it is definitely more than my NEC which is average 32ms, and I can feel it in general use.

Right now my left wrist won't allow me carrying an 80 lb monitor, thus no input lag testing.

Well you may have given me an indication already what the lag is. I'm sure I've read somewhere either 48 or 58 ms. Would you say that sounds about right if you had to guess?

I'm actually thinking that the best bet is to get a 2408WFP and then get an ever cheaper 24" TN panel for gaming, maybe the BenQ G2400WT. I've heard numbers thrown around about the Dell A01 2408's lag being in the 30's and it seems most people ordering here in Australia are now getting the A01 revision. I haven't really seen any input lag testing though. What do you think?
 

Mav451

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Messages
4,740
If Dell cut it in half (48ms to 23's), I think maybe the 2709 would warrant a look. At least match the fastest 24" Dell has had, the 2407. As it is now, they've made no visible effort to reduce input lag. Just what idiot at Dell decided that it was a wise, cost-saving move?
 

uptown

n00b
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
36
I don't have a CRT (or an LCD yet) but how do you actually do such a test if you did have both?
 

amcl

n00b
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
18
2709W version A01 exists! I just received it. No dead or stuck pixels (I forgot to dust the screen so i thought i had a few bad pixels at first). The colors look pretty good right out of the box, but that is subjective. The pink tint on the left and right sides are much improved over the version A00 I returned. I will be calibrating and testing for input lag so stay tuned.
 
Joined
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Messages
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2709W version A01 exists! I just received it. No dead or stuck pixels (I forgot to dust the screen so i thought i had a few bad pixels at first). The colors look pretty good right out of the box, but that is subjective. The pink tint on the left and right sides are much improved over the version A00 I returned. I will be calibrating and testing for input lag so stay tuned.

Great! i waiting for you tests !
 

daveswantek

[H]ard|Gawd
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Oct 30, 2007
Messages
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2709W version A01 exists! I just received it. No dead or stuck pixels (I forgot to dust the screen so i thought i had a few bad pixels at first). The colors look pretty good right out of the box, but that is subjective. The pink tint on the left and right sides are much improved over the version A00 I returned. I will be calibrating and testing for input lag so stay tuned.

Yah; I just got mine and it is A01 also, with a build date of Sept.08. My first impression is good; I like it. The first thing I did was to lower the brightness to 20% and I am satisified with that. I have no pink or green on either side of the screen. Colors look right, but somewhat oversaturated. The backlight is very uniform across the entire screen with no bleed or glow. The one thing I did notice is that when viewing lagon's blacklevel page the very darkest shades of black look dark purple. Also on the viewing angle page the purple shows gamma shift especially if you are close to the screen. Other colors just get darker when viewed from an angle. When I say darker I mean blacker, the brighness drops off more than I would like. The matte finish on the screen is just right for me, not dull or shiny. Last but not least is the touch sensitive buttons; they are no problum; in fact I kind'a like 'em. I have accidently truned off the panel a couple of times when I went to adjust the hight.

All n all I would rate this as a very good product, especially for the $720 I paid for it.

Dave
 

amcl

n00b
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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
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My 2709w test results*:

-No dead or stuck pixels
-Little back light bleed at the sides and corners, more so than A00 (More apparent at extreme angles)
-Light fall-off at extreme corners on bright backgrounds.
-Less pink tint on both sides than A00... although, still detectable
-Touch sensitive buttons work MUCH better than version A00. (I had to use my thumb on the previous version for consistency, whereas now, the buttons respond to my fingertips)

Results from Eye-One Display 2 calibrator:

-Native (standard color setting) Whitepoint is 6700K
-I used the RGB controls to get it to 6500K at 0 brightness or 160 cd/m2 (Still very bright)
-dE2000 average value after calibration is 0.62 (Probably would have been better had i not turned brightness all the way down because the most problematic were the super dark colors)

Now on to the results we've all been dying to know about... INPUT LAG:

-I get about 15-36ms or ~30ms average lag compared to an E248WFP TN panel. (A00 i tested had 60ms average)

I think this is VERY acceptable for my uses. No perceptible lag when i'm playing FPS video games like COD4. (I was able to feel the lag on version A00)


*The tests are by no means scientific and only applies to my monitor. Your monitor may vary.
 

daveswantek

[H]ard|Gawd
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1,231
My 2709w test results*:

-No dead or stuck pixels
-Little back light bleed at the sides and corners, more so than A00 (More apparent at extreme angles)
-Light fall-off at extreme corners on bright backgrounds.
-Less pink tint on both sides than A00... although, still detectable
-Touch sensitive buttons work MUCH better than version A00. (I had to use my thumb on the previous version for consistency, whereas now, the buttons respond to my fingertips)

Results from Eye-One Display 2 calibrator:

-Native (standard color setting) Whitepoint is 6700K
-I used the RGB controls to get it to 6500K at 0 brightness or 160 cd/m2 (Still very bright)
-dE2000 average value after calibration is 0.62 (Probably would have been better had i not turned brightness all the way down because the most problematic were the super dark colors)

Now on to the results we've all been dying to know about... INPUT LAG:

-I get about 15-36ms or ~30ms average lag compared to an E248WFP TN panel. (A00 i tested had 60ms average)

I think this is VERY acceptable for my uses. No perceptible lag when i'm playing FPS video games like COD4. (I was able to feel the lag on version A00)


*The tests are by no means scientific and only applies to my monitor. Your monitor may vary.

Did you see a noticable improvement after calibration?
In other words; should I buy an EyeOne with the money I saved on the 2709w?

After seeing your results, I am thinken that I should do lag tests and compare the results to yours. I am both pleased and surpeised at those numbers.

Dave
 

amcl

n00b
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Messages
18
Did you see a noticable improvement after calibration?
In other words; should I buy an EyeOne with the money I saved on the 2709w?

After seeing your results, I am thinken that I should do lag tests and compare the results to yours. I am both pleased and surpeised at those numbers.

Dave

The standard color setting is way too saturated. And when i turn the brightness to 0, i get some tint that i can't fix from adjusting the RGB alone.

My RGB settings for 6500k at 0 brightness are:

Red: 96
Green: 93
Blue: 97

I know monitors vary, however, if any of you would like my calibration file, pm me and i'll email it to you. I'd love to post a link on here if any of you know where i can host it.

And to answer your question: I think the Eye-One Display 2 is worth it. In fact, after using it, i don't know why i went on for so long without one. It gives me the sense that when i'm looking at my monitor, all the colors i see are what they are supposed to be and it allows me to be at ease. I got one from Amazon not too long ago for $175. They raised it to $205 now but i'm guessing it changes from time to time.
 

NormanNormal

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Wow this is good news. So we have confirmation that A01 does exist and the lag is greatly improved. Well that's just fantastic. I assuming that all of us that have been delayed will be receiving an A01. We can only hope anyway.
 

10e

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www.rapidshare.com is a good place to host a file if need be. You can e-mail yourself the link using their simple interface and then just forward the link to a post here.

My color settings are a bit different. I'm using 0 brightness too right now, with lower RGB values to achieve 140cdm/2 and 6503 Kelvin white point .

Red: 91
Green: 90
Blue: 89

Are you using the Eye One match software that came with the calibrator?

Also I guess you returned the monitor within the 21 day return period and received a brand new A01 unit? I'm surprised that the input lag is that much less? ..... Considering it, as that is the only flaw (IMO) of this monitor, but I don't think I'd get a new unit (as I've had it for more than 21 days and don't want to risk refurbs.

Thanks for the info!

The standard color setting is way too saturated. And when i turn the brightness to 0, i get some tint that i can't fix from adjusting the RGB alone.

My RGB settings for 6500k at 0 brightness are:

Red: 96
Green: 93
Blue: 97

I know monitors vary, however, if any of you would like my calibration file, pm me and i'll email it to you. I'd love to post a link on here if any of you know where i can host it.

And to answer your question: I think the Eye-One Display 2 is worth it. In fact, after using it, i don't know why i went on for so long without one. It gives me the sense that when i'm looking at my monitor, all the colors i see are what they are supposed to be and it allows me to be at ease. I got one from Amazon not too long ago for $175. They raised it to $205 now but i'm guessing it changes from time to time.
 

daveswantek

[H]ard|Gawd
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And to answer your question: I think the Eye-One Display 2 is worth it. In fact, after using it, i don't know why i went on for so long without one. It gives me the sense that when i'm looking at my monitor, all the colors i see are what they are supposed to be and it allows me to be at ease. I got one from Amazon not too long ago for $175. They raised it to $205 now but i'm guessing it changes from time to time.

Thanks; that is what I was hoping to hear. Did you get the right version from Amazon? I saw some feedback complaining that they get the express version by mistake.

Thanks

Wow this is good news. So we have confirmation that A01 does exist and the lag is greatly improved. Well that's just fantastic. I assuming that all of us that have been delayed will be receiving an A01. We can only hope anyway.

If you ordered from Dell then you are in good shape.

Dave
 

amcl

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Messages
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www.rapidshare.com is a good place to host a file if need be. You can e-mail yourself the link using their simple interface and then just forward the link to a post here.

My color settings are a bit different. I'm using 0 brightness too right now, with lower RGB values to achieve 140cdm/2 and 6503 Kelvin white point .

Red: 91
Green: 90
Blue: 89

Are you using the Eye One match software that came with the calibrator?

Also I guess you returned the monitor within the 21 day return period and received a brand new A01 unit? I'm surprised that the input lag is that much less? ..... Considering it, as that is the only flaw (IMO) of this monitor, but I don't think I'd get a new unit (as I've had it for more than 21 days and don't want to risk refurbs.

Thanks for the info!

Yup i'm using the newest i1Match v3.6.2 from xrite.com

Yup i returned the A00 within 21 days. I bought it a few weeks prior to the sale for $699 and they wouldn't refund the price difference so i was forced to do a return and repurchase. Now i'm glad i did.
 

amcl

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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
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Thanks; that is what I was hoping to hear. Did you get the right version from Amazon? I saw some feedback complaining that they get the express version by mistake.

Thanks



If you ordered from Dell then you are in good shape.

Dave

Got exactly what i ordered. I read the feedback you read so i was very wary and checked if it was brand new and it surely was.
 

amcl

n00b
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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
18
Here's the ICC profile for all who are interested:

Link

Your settings should be:

Red: 96
Green: 93
Blue: 97

Brightness: 0

Hopefully, the A01 monitors don't vary all that much. However, use your judgement as to whether the profile makes the color better or worse. You can always remove it from windows color management in the control panel.

*note, you'll need to disable your video card programs from auto-loading on startup because it may override the ICC.
 

Mysteriouskk

Weaksauce
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Oct 21, 2006
Messages
122
I just got mine, and so far I'm loving it. Got the A01 like everyone else, and so far, nothing seems to be a problem. No dead pixels, no lag, etc. I had to turn off the beeping sound when I turn it on, but the entire touch on/off button is perfect for me. I love just touching it to turn on the monitor. If you are looking for a 27 in monitor or something like it, I wojuld totally recommend this monitor.
 

DragoonTD

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
237
I just got mine, and so far I'm loving it. Got the A01 like everyone else, and so far, nothing seems to be a problem. No dead pixels, no lag, etc. I had to turn off the beeping sound when I turn it on, but the entire touch on/off button is perfect for me. I love just touching it to turn on the monitor. If you are looking for a 27 in monitor or something like it, I wojuld totally recommend this monitor.

when did you order?
 

NormanNormal

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 22, 2001
Messages
2,851
Can someone who has this monitor tell me if the stand will be compatible with other dell monitors? Say if I wanted to use the stand for an older 2005fpw... is it a screw in standard VESA mount for is it a dell clip in?

Thanks
 

theone1989

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
162
Hi, is anyone finding that on the righthand side, the white or light colours looks a bit "pink" or dirty, weird thing is, on a pure black screen the same bit looks lighter...

My screen also seems to be the brightest in the top left corner, then the top right corner where on a pure black screen there is a bit of backlight bleed.

Everything else about it seems fine though

should i ask dell for a replacement? i'm in the uk, where there's a 7day return policy on all goods bought online. anyway i think dell is shipping rev a01s all over now, mine was a01 from czech republic.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/comp...-ultrasharp-2709-w-bargain-8.html#post7917179

if anyone fancies looking at 2709w owners in the uk are getting on.
 

daveswantek

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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My A01 has none of those issues, but I am in the US. I am not sure where mine was made. The manufacture date is Sept 08.

I would return yours if possable.

Dave
 

NormanNormal

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Messages
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What # did you call for that? I tried calling the # in the delay email I got, and they wouldn't give that to me.

I called the main number on the website and asked for small business customer service. I ordered through a small business reseller so your avenue of approach may be different than mine.
 

amcl

n00b
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
18
Can someone who has this monitor tell me if the stand will be compatible with other dell monitors? Say if I wanted to use the stand for an older 2005fpw... is it a screw in standard VESA mount for is it a dell clip in?

Thanks

It's a screw-in mount.
 

theone1989

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
162
Anyways, this is kind of what I mean of my panel.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1976/cream1920x1200lu3.jpg

When displayed on my 2709w, then photo taken on N95 phone in room with no lighting except monitor which is faced head on.

http://i37.tinypic.com/sl1rps.jpg

&

http://i38.tinypic.com/2itq2d2.jpg


The original pic is supposed to be a logo on a white background, on my screen it's not uniformly white. Its not blue at the edges either, I can't see the colour with my naked eye, only showed when taking picture. Though it does show that at the right edges and in the other places, the panel doens't seem to be uniform.

I dont' have a calibrator but this is my impression anyway.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
26
I have read somewhere that linking both the dvi cables from vga to dvi connectors of the 2709w it going to works at 30bit deph color, is it true?
 
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