DELL 2405FPW Has Ghosting woot

atlwriter

Gawd
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Dec 31, 2004
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Mine, too. No dead/stuck pixels on my 10-day old 2405. <keeping all my fingers crossed!!>
 

Riptide_NVN

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Good luck to you guys. I'm not sure if the two dead ones I have were there originally or if they came up down the road. I've had this display for a couple weeks now. When you have a pixel that's stuck green but only against a dark background - it can get pretty difficult to find them, especially if they aren't out in the main viewing area. It's possible you have some that you haven't seen yet.

I'll cross my fingers for you as well. :D
 

Typhon

n00b
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Nov 7, 2004
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OKay lets call it motion blur then.

MOTION BLUR

I myself was always like LCDs suck for gaming until i bought my 20inch Apple LCD and it is perfect for gaming.
I have a 21 inch SonyCRT and the NEC21CRT.

but seriously LCDs are good for gaming it really depends on what ones u buy.
 

fallguy

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I have never noticed any motion blur, but I dont go looking for it. And I sure dont stare at a wall and move side to side really fast as part of my normal gameplay. I play all sorts of games, mostly FPS's.

And I have not noticed any ghosting with my 4 LCD's, other than my first. I had a 1800FP, 2001FP, 2005FPW, now a 2405FPW. Only my 1800FP would ghost when looking at it from the side.

It is funny to see the same "anti-LCD" people trying to belittle them though. Makes me laugh. :)
 

Typhon

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I think ur just a noob, cause seriously dont be niaeve.

Its like having disease and just ignoring it, saying that i dont believe i have a disease, so i dont have it.
 

fallguy

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Its a good thing I dont give a flying flip what you think about me.

Fact, I dont notice any motion blur. Did I say my monitor didnt do it, or wouldnt under a certain circumstance? No, I said I have never noticed it, which I havent. I dont go looking for it, why would I? Another fact, I dont care if you believe me or not. Your analogy is both wrong, and offensive.
 

TehQuick

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Meh to all LCD haters. Don't like, don't buy it. Fallguy, u r quite right, this is turning into another fan-boy war (or the war b/n haves and havenots - those who can and can't afford a top-of-the-line LCD :D ) :cool: :p

Personally, I played on LCDs (1800fp, 2001fp and now 2405fpw) for last 3 years. Never noticed any motion blur or ghosting (including 1800fp with 25ms response time). Even there was one, it didn't bother me much nor prevent me from scoring countless headshots in Unreal-engine games :D

BTW, I tried playing on CRT once or twice after I made the switch and it wasn't cool with me. I guess I'll have to wait until the new crossover technology, which mixes LCD with CRT type of screen (forgot the moniker)
 

Mcseiam

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Typhon said:
I think ur just a noob, cause seriously dont be niaeve.

Its like having disease and just ignoring it, saying that i dont believe i have a disease, so i dont have it.


And this is exactly the kind of statement that will get you into trouble around here. If you cant post something that pertains to the topic at hand then dont post at all....

My 2 cents and my first warning.
 

bbertram

Weaksauce
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Jun 23, 2004
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110
ozziegn said:
lol - a 25 foot VGA cable? good God man... VGA in standard length cable stinks bigtime compared to a DVI connection much less spanning a VGA connection 25 feet. :p


Once I have my new computer I can try a standard length cable, my current PC is way across the room.
 

truffle00

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fallguy said:
Its a good thing I dont give a flying flip what you think about me.

Fact, I dont notice any motion blur. Did I say my monitor didnt do it, or wouldnt under a certain circumstance? No, I said I have never noticed it, which I havent. I dont go looking for it, why would I? Another fact, I dont care if you believe me or not. Your analogy is both wrong, and offensive.

Look, many people who notice motion blur don't go looking for it. You'll just be playing a game, or watching a movie and go, "Hmm...that looks blurry." It's then that you do the more indepth tests of strafing against a wall, etc. Nobody WANTS their monitor to be blurry, it's just the way it turns out.

Furthermore, I don't think Typhon is wrong, but he could have proceeded with a bit more tact. The way I read his post, it's the blurring monitor that is the disease and not naivety or poor eyesight. I can understand where if you read it the other way it might be offensive, but I suppose it is up to you to determine how you want to read it.

In the end, you can either deal with the blur or go back to CRT. Honestly though, just saying that you don't see it does not mean it is not there, and in a thread about motion blur on any monitor, I'd rather hear from people who have looked for it (regardless of whether they then noticed it or not) than people who ignore it.
 

bchomp

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FWIW, I notice the ghosting more of a loss of detail more than an actual "ghost" on the screen - like the objects themselves get smeared, and the entire image can get smeared if it's all roughly the same contrast, but there's no ghost behind them. This is consistent (or maybe placebo'd upon) the fact that gray-gray transitions are slower than black-white transitions, so something moving on a black background may not show a ghost, but would be blurred nonetheless. So it's not quite ghosting and not quite "motion blur".
 

Riptide_NVN

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truffle00 said:
In the end, you can either deal with the blur or go back to CRT. Honestly though, just saying that you don't see it does not mean it is not there, and in a thread about motion blur on any monitor, I'd rather hear from people who have looked for it (regardless of whether they then noticed it or not) than people who ignore it.
I noticed it during the course of playing a game. It took a while but I eventually ended up in a situation where it kinda jumped out at me. Probably when I was in close combat with someone else who was up against a wall and moving from side to side rapidly dodging. That blur is there, even with the 2405FPW. After I noticed it I did some more tests to confirm it.

I don't find that bit of motion blur to be something that hurts my eyes. Nor does it become noticeable to me most of the time during gameplay except under very specific circumstances. So count me as one who knows that the blur is there but would never go back to a CRT. :)
 

bench261

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Jan 11, 2005
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573
i noticed it on the 2005 but not on the 2405. there aint no way i'm going back to that boxed radiator. its something tht some ppl just can or cant notice...some ppl can see refresh rates on crt some can't...same for ghosting on lcds
 

Magic66

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Oct 11, 2003
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Its good to here different opinions on this monitor thanks guys :D
I'm an average fps player this mite help a little if nobody mentioned it yet.

Ghosting = When you see double image of and object on the screen when moving.
Motion Blur = When and Object looses its image or detail when quickly moving from 1 place to another.
Screen Door Effect = Please do not look for this now if you don't know what this is :eek:
The vision of seeing really small square like lines on your screen.

I think I mite buy me a 2405 soon :D
 

msny

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dano1122 said:
to those people saying LCD are better for gaming, you are decieving yourselves.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion even if you are wrong ;)
 

EricDawg

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I was VERY disappointed in my 2001FP I just got for BF1942. Kill ratio went way down. Just can't focus on fast close combat.

But I had 21 days to return it. I ordered a 22" CRT and will keep the LCD for programming work. Portrait mode is amazing.

The blur is out there!
 

Riptide_NVN

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Wow, it really amazes me how YMMV when it comes to issues like ghosting and flickering w/displays. My kill ratio was unaffected even when I went to my first LCD which was a slower 25ms display (2000FP).
 

Arkanian

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I hope people are using a DVI cable, reducing the freq of the DVI, and V-SYNC.
 

Arkanian

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pistola said:
And v-sync what?
Can you rephase your question?

Short for Vertical Synchronization, VSYNC is a signal used to describe the process or set a value telling the monitor when to draw the next vertical line. The time it takes for this to occur is measured in Hertz (Hz).

Basically your frames per second equal that to your refresh rate.
For example: if your refresh rate is 60 Hertz, your frames in games will be 60 FPS constant. this eliminates motion blur and sometimes ghosting because your monitor can display the changes per pixel very well at 60 FPS. So if you are running at 115 FPS, your monitor has to change each pixel that much faster and sometimes it can not keep up.
 

Arkanian

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Riptide_NVN said:
What do you mean reducing the frequency of the DVI - and why would that be a good thing?
In the ATI Advanced properties under options, click on Reduce DVI freq on high-res displays. If you don't have this check, CHECK it ASAP.

As written by ATI's tech support

Reduce DVI frequency on high-resolution

Resolves display corruption or no image at high
resolutions (for example 1280x1024 @75Hz) using a
digital DVI display. This setting has no effect when using a
DVI-I-to-VGA adapter.
 

TehQuick

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lol, with Nvidia its not that easy. on mine, monitor timings are set on custom (it was automatic) and there a buttload of variables. Now if only I knew what all of them mean :confused:

Ie: horizontal and vertical both specify front and back porch, sync polarity, sync width and refresh rate. Any1 care to explain which porch i am entering from and what sync width i need to set?
 

mozmo

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Feb 28, 2005
Messages
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I managed to try one out today and yes it does blur, a little disappointed actually on smooth pans in fps's, the screen totally blurs up and that was causing my eyes to get swore since my brain thought my optics were out of focus. I was hoping the improved grey to grey would minimise blur but it's still very apparent and no where near the sharpness a crt has with moving images. I might just cancel my order and stick with my 21inch crt.
 

BONDS

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hey guys,

IM new to LCD's and just wanted to know what ghosting is.
I was at Compusa over the weekend and i was looking at the samsung 243T and one thing i noticed was that i noticed 2 of the same icons, one was the actual icon and another icon was offset of the same sort. what im trying to say is that i saw 2 images of the same icon, one actual , and one offset icon which was very very very light.

I also wanted to know if i am going to notice ghosting(still dont know what ghosting is) on the 2405 if i am playing x-box games. I dont intend to play computer games on this monitor.

thanks in advance
bonds
 

Riptide_NVN

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There is more than one type of ghosting so to speak. The image you describe could be termed that way but it's not the same thing most people are refering to. The sort of ghosting (in this case aka "image blur") commonly complained about w/LCD displays only happens with a moving image. The sort of ghosting you're talking about, on the 2D desktop, is probably due to a bad display or a bad cable. CRT displays at high resolutions can also sometimes produce the same problem and it can be fixed by using a BNC connector.

In order to see ghosting on an LCD display you can grab a window on the 2D desktop and move it around. At just the right speed you'll see the image sort of blur and go out of focus. Another way to do it would be to start up a FPS like UT2004 or CS:S and face a wall then strafe from side to side. The wall will go out of focus.

And yes I think you will notice ghosting with the 2405FPW - but only if you go looking for it. That's been my experience anyway.
 

BONDS

Weaksauce
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Riptide_NVN said:
There is more than one type of ghosting so to speak. The image you describe could be termed that way but it's not the same thing most people are refering to. The sort of ghosting (in this case aka "image blur") commonly complained about w/LCD displays only happens with a moving image. The sort of ghosting you're talking about, on the 2D desktop, is probably due to a bad display or a bad cable. CRT displays at high resolutions can also sometimes produce the same problem and it can be fixed by using a BNC connector.

In order to see ghosting on an LCD display you can grab a window on the 2D desktop and move it around. At just the right speed you'll see the image sort of blur and go out of focus. Another way to do it would be to start up a FPS like UT2004 or CS:S and face a wall then strafe from side to side. The wall will go out of focus.

And yes I think you will notice ghosting with the 2405FPW - but only if you go looking for it. That's been my experience anyway.


i will notice it on 2405 even when i dont play any video games except xbox???
just want to make sure of it
 

JonDo[H]

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Arkanian said:
In the ATI Advanced properties under options, click on Reduce DVI freq on high-res displays. If you don't have this check, CHECK it ASAP.

As written by ATI's tech support

Reduce DVI frequency on high-resolution

Resolves display corruption or no image at high
resolutions (for example 1280x1024 @75Hz) using a
digital DVI display. This setting has no effect when using a
DVI-I-to-VGA adapter.

Ticking this is ONLY necessary if you are experiencing "display corruption". Otherwise, there should be no need to tick it surely?
 

Riptide_NVN

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Good question Jon because I think it's on by default. Next time I upgrade Catalyst I'll double check that.
 

Riptide_NVN

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BONDS said:
i will notice it on 2405 even when i dont play any video games except xbox???
just want to make sure of it
You will probably not see any of it outside of fast paced FPS type games. It's really hard to say for sure because there is a wide variance in how easily people see ghosting on most modern LCDs. I don't find it bothersome but others say even the fastest LCDs out at the moment aren't good enough for them.
 

JonDo[H]

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Riptide_NVN said:
Good question Jon because I think it's on by default. Next time I upgrade Catalyst I'll double check that.

Yeah it is, as is 'Alternate DVI setting'. They're also on as default even if you don't use DVI. I tend to turn them off as they appear to make no difference.
 

pistola

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Arkanian said:
Can you rephase your question?

Short for Vertical Synchronization, VSYNC is a signal used to describe the process or set a value telling the monitor when to draw the next vertical line. The time it takes for this to occur is measured in Hertz (Hz).

Basically your frames per second equal that to your refresh rate.
For example: if your refresh rate is 60 Hertz, your frames in games will be 60 FPS constant. this eliminates motion blur and sometimes ghosting because your monitor can display the changes per pixel very well at 60 FPS. So if you are running at 115 FPS, your monitor has to change each pixel that much faster and sometimes it can not keep up.

No no no, I understand what V-sync is, however I don't understand what your suggesting to do with v-sync. You said something about changing the freq of the DVI and then you say "and v-sync". The way thats worded it sounds like you telling us to change the freq of the v-sync, however I was under the impression thats theres only two options, v-sync on, or v-sync off. so what do you mean? v-sync what?
 

JonDo[H]

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I think he's just suggesting that you should turn it out to avoid any graphical "tearing".
 

Arkanian

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JonDo[H] said:
I think he's just suggesting that you should turn it out to avoid any graphical "tearing".
Yes sorry if I was confusing. You want to turn V-sync on if you are using an LCD to avoid tearing and motion blur.
 

Spare-Flair

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Arkanian said:
Yes sorry if I was confusing. You want to turn V-sync on if you are using an LCD to avoid tearing and motion blur.

Motion blur has nothing to do with V-sync. It's an inherent property of the latency of the panel. Sometimes, CRTs can even have motion blur if they have high phosphor latency as really, in a CRT, it's just a cathode ray firing from the gun into phosphor that changes the color of pixels.

In an LCD, electrical charges change the color of chemicals in the liquid crystal panel and ghosting or motion blur is caused by the pixels not being able to change color fast enough so everything is slowed down and blurred. Your brain and eyes get confused thinking you're out of focus, and then you get dizzy, nauseous, or eye-strain from trying to focus when it's impossible.

V-sync syncronizes the refresh rate of the screen with the framerate on the screen and this avoids visual tearing, especially in some FPS's but generally is not a big problem with LCD displays.

Reducing the DVI frequency has nothing to do with vsync, it's simply something you can try if you experience some corruption or graphical problems on your display when running high resolutions above 1280x1024. I've never had any problems on 17" and 19" monitors running 1280x1024 but if you have a larger panel, that might be an issue.
 

Arkanian

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Spare-Flair said:
Motion blur has nothing to do with V-sync. It's an inherent property of the latency of the panel. Sometimes, CRTs can even have motion blur if they have high phosphor latency as really, in a CRT, it's just a cathode ray firing from the gun into phosphor that changes the color of pixels.

In an LCD, electrical charges change the color of chemicals in the liquid crystal panel and ghosting or motion blur is caused by the pixels not being able to change color fast enough so everything is slowed down and blurred. Your brain and eyes get confused thinking you're out of focus, and then you get dizzy, nauseous, or eye-strain from trying to focus when it's impossible.

V-sync syncronizes the refresh rate of the screen with the framerate on the screen and this avoids visual tearing, especially in some FPS's but generally is not a big problem with LCD displays.

Reducing the DVI frequency has nothing to do with vsync, it's simply something you can try if you experience some corruption or graphical problems on your display when running high resolutions above 1280x1024. I've never had any problems on 17" and 19" monitors running 1280x1024 but if you have a larger panel, that might be an issue.
Like I said sorry if I was confusing. I meant for DVI freq and V-Sync to be different. The only reason I said V-Sync would help in motion blur is because it limits your Frames per second. The LCD panel can keep up with 60 FPS better than 150 FPS.
 

Scolecite

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there is ghosting on these monitors, plain and simple.

however with certian games its less noticable. Others like Natural Selection its EXTREMELY noticable.

Im sacrificing widescreen for ghosting, as I had a 21" Viewsonic CRT b4.
 

Greenwit

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EricDawg said:
I was VERY disappointed in my 2001FP I just got for BF1942. Kill ratio went way down. Just can't focus on fast close combat.

But I had 21 days to return it. I ordered a 22" CRT and will keep the LCD for programming work. Portrait mode is amazing.

The blur is out there!

I'm just about like you. But I returned the 2001fp and got a NEC/Mitsu 22" CRT. Never noticed blur or whatever you want to call it on the Dell except for UT. It can't handle UT well at all and I would imagine any other helter skelter type game. I really like the panel but it was too bright and I didn't like being tied down to 1600 lines. Very happy with the NEC....images are better on it too.
 
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