Defense Distributed Wins Major Court Case

kju1

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You're going to be hard pressed to find a single, universally accepted definition of "assault rifle." I'm pretty sure one major media outlet exposed its own bias - or at least ignorance - by reporting that an "assault rifle shotgun" was used in a shooting.
It doesnt have to be universally accepted it just has to be technically correct.
 

Joust

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It doesnt have to be universally accepted it just has to be technically correct.
Technically correct by what definition? You lose the bounds of what "it" is, then it becomes very difficult to define what is and is not "it."
 

IdiotInCharge

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I'd separate guns into tiers based on their ability to penetrate various grades of Kevlar; something you can actually test to and categorize.
This depends entirely on the ammunition used, which like firearms, also advances over time.
 

jnemesh

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Too late. People have already 3D printed a lower receiver for the AR style of rifles. It's trivial to modify the file to print it to select fire, making it a true "assault rifle." However, the last ones I saw are only good for about 5 shots before it breaks.
It would be trivial to use the 3d printed part to cast a metal one. Or to use a CNC machine to mill out the parts.
 

Joust

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It would be trivial to use the 3d printed part to cast a metal one. Or to use a CNC machine to mill out the parts.
Or someone could just, you know, buy 80% lowers and discard the 3d printer altogether.
 

jnemesh

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Or someone could just, you know, buy 80% lowers and discard the 3d printer altogether.
The idea here is to make your own gun. If you buy the lower, it's tracked and registered. If you print your own, no one else knows you have it. Also, if you can enable select fire...I personally don't have any interest in going full auto...but would LOVE to modify my PMR-30 pistol to shoot 3-round burst!
 

Joust

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The idea here is to make your own gun. If you buy the lower, it's tracked and registered. If you print your own, no one else knows you have it. Also, if you can enable select fire...I personally don't have any interest in going full auto...but would LOVE to modify my PMR-30 pistol to shoot 3-round burst!
80% lowers are not serialized.
 

Hatriot

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No, they are not. Assault rifle has a very specific set of technical criteria in order to be one. And caliber is indeed part of that definition. This is a common part of criteria for classifying firearms along with mechanism of action. For instance, Battle rifle has specific criteria that involve caliber, sub machine gun has specific criteria that involve caliber, etc.
Please link to that specification. The AR platform itself comes in many calibers? There are handguns that shoot a more deadly bullet than a .223 so I am interested to see this criteria for "assault".
 

Jailer

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Now I am sure all those government pigs are going to have their salaries docked to reimburse the American taxpayer for what they have wasted yet again. Who am I kidding though right. Working for the public sector means never having to suffer any real consequences.
Having worked in the public sector for nearly 30 years, you are absolutely correct.
 

[Spectre]

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You're going to be hard pressed to find a single, universally accepted definition of "assault rifle." I'm pretty sure one major media outlet exposed its own bias - or at least ignorance - by reporting that an "assault rifle shotgun" was used in a shooting.
No. The definition of an assault rifle is universally accepted in the firearms industry. The media and lay people don't have to accept something for there to be a correct accepted definition of a piece of equipment.
 

[Spectre]

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Please link to that specification. The AR platform itself comes in many calibers? There are handguns that shoot a more deadly bullet than a .223 so I am interested to see this criteria for "assault".
The caliber portion is firing an intermediate cartridge.
 

gamerk2

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This depends entirely on the ammunition used, which like firearms, also advances over time.
Which is fair, but most guns can be chambered with only one type of ammunition.

I also should have noted that obviously range is a factor.
 

[Spectre]

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Which is fair, but most guns can be chambered with only one type of ammunition.

I also should have noted that obviously range is a factor.
That is not true. Just about every firearm can chamber multiple types of ammunition. FMJ, JHP, etc. Then a great many can be produced or readily converted to different calibers.
 

Joust

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No. The definition of an assault rifle is universally accepted in the firearms industry. The media and lay people don't have to accept something for there to be a correct accepted definition of a piece of equipment.
I'm inclined to agree that the industry forms the proper vocabulary. I would suggest that there are *probably* several different legislatively designated definitions.
 

hakstarr

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Now I am sure all those government pigs are going to have their salaries docked to reimburse the American taxpayer for what they have wasted yet again. Who am I kidding though right. Working for the public sector means never having to suffer any real consequences.
Spoken like some one who does not understand government work. Most government employees are over worked and under payed and end up leaving for the private sector.
 

Joust

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Spoken like some one who does not understand government work. Most government employees are over worked and under payed and end up leaving for the private sector.
The capable ones, yes. The incapable ones retire from government service. The workforce in government gets looted from time to time, because it is generally far less lucrative.
 

lcpiper

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Was it the 2nd amendment that saved him?
I don't see how the 2nd Amendment actually had anything to do with it at all. Digital Plans on how to build a gun are not addressed under 2A and I don't even know how you could tie it in in any way, unless you actually make a gun with them.

Now in Arizona for example, the State passed a law awhile back specifically granting citizens( who are not prohibited possessors) protects allowing them the right to build their own personal firearms as long as the major components don't come from across State lines. My wording might even be off, it might be more like the State protects it's citizens from other powers, like the Fed, from messing with such rights.
 

jardows

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It would be trivial to use the 3d printed part to cast a metal one. Or to use a CNC machine to mill out the parts.
cast metal does not have the strength of a machined solid block. If you are wanting a liberator style firearm, you might as well use the 3D printer all the way. At least when it fails, it won't be blowing shards of metal at you like a grenade.

Or someone could just, you know, buy 80% lowers and discard the 3d printer altogether.
From what I have found, 80% lowers are actually more expensive than the finished lower receiver, and in almost every situation a fully assembled rifle (basic) will cost less than buying the parts and assembling it yourself. Add to that it takes skill and/or machinery that not everyone would have. The idea behind 3D-printed gun parts is to make them cheaply available to anyone who can click "print" on a computer.

The idea here is to make your own gun. If you buy the lower, it's tracked and registered. If you print your own, no one else knows you have it. Also, if you can enable select fire...I personally don't have any interest in going full auto...but would LOVE to modify my PMR-30 pistol to shoot 3-round burst!
The laws in the USA are very specific, and it helps to use the proper terms and ideas. The only time a firearm is registered at the federal level is when it is manufactured by a licensed manufacturer. After that, the manufacturer, distributor, and dealers are required to retain their sales records. The federal NICS background check only identifies that you (by your identifying information) purchased a long gun or a handgun. That background check record is "supposed" to be deleted after a period of time.

Federal law allows for the unlicensed manufacturing for personal use only of firearms that are not covered under the NFA (National Firearms Act). NFA firearms are not permitted to be manufactured without license or posessed without an appropriate tax stamp. If you are unsure, the NFA covers short-barreled rifles and shotguns, full-auto firearms, suppressors, and "destructive devices." Manufacturing a full-auto firearm, or modifying a firearm for full-auto functioning without a manufacturing license is a sure way to book your 10-year vacation at Club Fed.

All that said, certain states have stricter regulations and requirements for firearms purchasing or ownership than the federal government, so one must always check their state and local laws as well.
 

KarsusTG

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All future wars should be fought with these firearms. The most dangerous thing on a 3D-printed rifle right now would be a bayonet, provided it wasn't printed.

Knives would be all the rage real fast.
I don't know about that. I have some Alloy 910 that I've printed with for work. It's rated for 8100 psi and 73000 modulus psi... If you get a good print, that shit is stronger than many aluminum alloys and prints like nylon.

I am sure there are stronger materials you can print with too.
 

lcpiper

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................ The idea behind 3D-printed gun parts is to make them cheaply available to anyone who can click "print" on a computer..............
I sort of disagree unless you can prove me wrong on my "assumptions".

The first is that I can buy a 3D printer and all other equipment and materials required to create a firearms and come out cheaper than a decent used firearm.

The second is that it's a way to avoid the government knowing that you purchased a gun.

The third, is that in light of the previous two "assumptions", the real idea is a combination of "look what a cool thing I can make with my printer" and "watch me pointlessly thumb my nose at the establishment by doing something that's .......... easier to do in other ways :confused:
 

jardows

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The third, is that in light of the previous two "assumptions", the real idea is a combination of "look what a cool thing I can make with my printer" and "watch me pointlessly thumb my nose at the establishment by doing something that's .......... easier to do in other ways :confused:
This is probably closer to the truth than any of the other reasons!
 

Al Capwn

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Please link to that specification. The AR platform itself comes in many calibers? There are handguns that shoot a more deadly bullet than a .223 so I am interested to see this criteria for "assault".
Just for clarification, the AR platform does not mean 'Assault Rifle', it's 'ArmaLite Rifle'.
 

jnemesh

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Please link to that specification. The AR platform itself comes in many calibers? There are handguns that shoot a more deadly bullet than a .223 so I am interested to see this criteria for "assault".
1. black color
2. looks scary
3. is used to assault people
 

jnemesh

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This is correct.

What is also interesting is that I don't know any military that actually calls their service's rifle and assault rifle, to them, it's just a rifle.



Yup, had to chant that several billion times in boot camp...and they are "just rifles" because there is no such thing as an "assault rifle".
 

tangoseal

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Assault is an ACTION not a rifle. I'll keep saying it

Bullets and guns are not deadly. People shooting people are.

Cars are not deadly. Drivers hitting people are.

Drugs are not dangerous. People overdosing are.

And so on and so forth. Countless examples of common sense can be given.
 

Nobu

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Anything can be deadly under the right circumstances, the important thing is what it is, has done, or could do. Bullets could kill (if they are fired at and hit you, or mishandled while attached to a cartridge/case filled with gunpowder), therefore they are potentially deadly.

A deadly car accident is so called because in all cases if an accident occurred in that way, it would result in death, for instance.
 

MickeyBailey

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Was it the 2nd amendment that saved him?
It was that the resulting device could not be considered a weapon of war. The suit was about sharing plans with foreign nationals (i.e. the internet) which is a no-no for millitary arms.

I have some mixed feelings about this one. Mostly I am encouraged that they won the lawsuit. It also makes me far more curious to get a 3D printer and see what I can make. But part of me sees a number of Darwinesque builders who don't follow directions well and blow up their hands...perhaps even me. :D
I bought one of their Ghost Gunner CNC machines. Not the cheapest way to go but it’s fun and I’m learning a lot,

Too late. People have already 3D printed a lower receiver for the AR style of rifles. It's trivial to modify the file to print it to select fire, making it a true "assault rifle." However, the last ones I saw are only good for about 5 shots before it breaks.
You still need the full auto sear, which will get your dog shot.

ALL rifles are ASSAULT rifles; they are designed to kill. The caliber of the "assault" rifle depends on what one intends to kill e.g. squirrels and other varmints a .22 would do nicely; for deer and reaching out a distance, I prefer a .308. Guns are designed to kill and even the smallest of cailbers can get the job done.

The reason the 2nd amendment exists is due to the personal experience of the framers of the constitution and their experience of living under the tyranny of King George. They built in that "safety valve" to give pause to future tyrants. Enough jibber jabber, time to head to the range and get some weekly training in on my 2nd Amendent rights.
It’s generalky held that a select fire rifle of intermediate cartridge is an assault rifle, think of it as between a true machine gun and a semi-auto rifle.

It isn't the lower that makes an AR15 capable of select. There are several manufacturers that sell lowers capable of support an RDIAS or LL. It is the trigger control group. Sure there are some companies that make a high shelf lower that doesn't accept the above but you can legally mill mhe shelf without repercussion. It isn't till you install an unregistered FA parts in to the lower that you have an issue.
Ar-15 lower needs an extra hole for select fire. This hole will also get your dog shot.

Not quite.

The 2nd Amendment was a direct response to the US Constitution allowing a Federally controlled standing Army, something which was not allowed under the Articles of Confederation. Jefferson/Madison were worried that nothing would prevent the Federal government from disarming the various state militias, effectively creating a dictatorship. The 2nd Amendment was thus created specifically to ensure the Federal government can not legally do this.

As for "Assault" rifles, yes, it's an arbitrary term that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. I'd separate guns into tiers based on their ability to penetrate various grades of Kevlar; something you can actually test to and categorize.

EDIT

As for the actual article, I don't think there's any real regulation at either the Federal or State level in regards to requirements on CREATING a gun. Until such action is taken, yeah, there's really not much that can be done by authorities. (And yes, I'm in favor of tighter gun restrictions, but at the end of the day, until regulation catches up, I can't see how printing a gun is a violation of anything).
Some states have regulations. In CA you must register a serial number with the state before construction the firearm, for example.

I have yet to see any way to manufacture a barrel and bolt on a 3D printer that would not immediately fail catastrophically.
That may change in the future.
Make lower receiver, buy rest of parts with cash at a gun show. Zero paper trail that you have a functioning firearm.

The idea here is to make your own gun. If you buy the lower, it's tracked and registered. If you print your own, no one else knows you have it. Also, if you can enable select fire...I personally don't have any interest in going full auto...but would LOVE to modify my PMR-30 pistol to shoot 3-round burst!
Dead dog and unwanted dates in prison await you. You cannot manufacture a machine gun.

80% lowers are not serialized.
Some states require serialization prior to completing the 80% lower such as CA.

In order to transfer an unserializd firearm, the owner must first serialize it. Furthermore, if you construct a firearm with the intent to transfer it, hide your dogs. But yes, for most states, intrastate transfers of long arms are not required to pass through an FFL.

Which is fair, but most guns can be chambered with only one type of ammunition.

I also should have noted that obviously range is a factor.
An AR-15 lower (the firearm) has zero effect on cartridge. You can buy an upper and barrel for one of numerous cartridges that are supported by the platform and it takes seconds to switch between them.
 

gamerk2

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Some states have regulations. In CA you must register a serial number with the state before construction the firearm, for example.
The 2nd Amendment does not prohibit Federal or State regulation of firearms; the Supreme Court said as much when they extended to 2nd Amendment to cover individuals.

An AR-15 lower (the firearm) has zero effect on cartridge. You can buy an upper and barrel for one of numerous cartridges that are supported by the platform and it takes seconds to switch between them.
And each one would be evaluated separately.
 

SvenBent

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The government's argument relied on the premise that data to build a gun is the same as the gun itself, and therefore "exporting gun data" = "exporting a gun." 100% bullshit. Very glad this came to the right outcome.
Man how writes of books with murder in them do we need to put in jail with that logic....
 
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