Debt-Ceiling Shutdown Will Close Some Gov’t Websites

[Stiletto]

That they didn't understand what connotation that term would have with anyone who'd played a FPS is their fault.

"They never played Halo, so they deserve to be mocked. Also cause I disagree with them."

 

[mesyn191]

Of course. I mean, if you're arguing the old chestnut of "communism hasn't really been tried yet", then I imagine all the political wings of the US would be distasteful.

Because I HAVE to like one wing for some reason? I may vote for a particular rep or party but that doesn't mean I like that rep. or party. I always try and vote for the lesser evil.

But how about Bernie Sanders? He's an out-and-out socialist. Should make you happy.

He is OK but I'm not happy with him either. He says some things I'd agree with but many of the bills he advocated turned into the typical neoliberal dreck that you see out of Wash. DC today.

IMO our leadership sucks and has since at least Nixon.

 

[heatlesssun]

That's a lie.

http://aattp.org/the-tea-party-actually-did-call-themselves-teabagger/

Apparently a lot of Tea Party folks did refer to themselves by the term before they realized what it meant. Honestly I had no idea what the term meant before the Tea Party movement.

 

[Jagger100]

stiletto, damicatz, jpm100, WTF, and a couple others are all either TP'ers or make points indistinguishable from TP'ers so if any of them are big or small L libertarians then that would be a point without distinction.

Of course I hold small or big L libertarians with the same regard I do Tea Baggers. Most R's too while you're at it. And D's can't forget them either.

My opinions are formed from living under universal healthcare. I can't help if the other examples around the world lead to the same place and we end up sounding alike. I think that's really your problem.

And why is it that people like yourself addresss issues with the maturity of a 10 year old. All your causes are painted like stories you'd write for children. Clearly defined villians like Insurance company CEO's and 'Tea Baggers'. And a clear solution that will solve all the problems if if wasn't for the villians. What happens to the 'World is many shades of grey' when people call for tough punishment for crime or the ability to defend themselves?

Even the Term 'tea bagger' is like an improvised slur you'd find in a school yard of grade 5's & 6's.

 

[Stiletto]

http://aattp.org/the-tea-party-actually-did-call-themselves-teabagger/

Apparently a lot of Tea Party folks did refer to themselves by the term before they realized what it meant. Honestly I had no idea what the term meant before the Tea Party movement.

Just because they were trying to "take back" the insult(which is as stupid as various groups trying to "take back" other slurs) doesn't mean it wasn't the media which popularized the term as a pejorative...and have been ever since. That one poster has used it, I believe, at least half a dozen times in this thread alone.

 

[mesyn191]

That's a lie.

Come on don't you try and check anything before you post?

"They never played Halo, so they deserve to be mocked. Also cause I disagree with them."

Not quite. They deserve to be mocked because they're terrible. That they chose to call themselves something so childish also happens to be funny.

 

[Stiletto]

Not quite. They deserve to be mocked because they're terrible.

Oh, okay then.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just because they were trying to "take back" the insult(which is as stupid as various groups trying to "take back" other slurs) doesn't mean it wasn't the media which popularized the term as a pejorative...and have been ever since. That one poster has used it, I believe, at least half a dozen times in this thread alone.

Not sure what you mean. All I was saying is that some Tea Party folks did use the term to refer to themselves before they knew what it meant. I'm not saying that makes using the term appropriate.

 

[mesyn191]

So it's statist progressives vs. everyone else?

So far I guess though I'd like to think I was also shooting some holes in some of the meme's/propaganda.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

So far I guess though I'd like to think I was also shooting some holes in some of the meme's/propaganda.

Our upcoming healthcare plan is nothing like, say, the Finnish healthcare plan.

 

[mesyn191]

My opinions are formed from living under universal healthcare.

And perhaps UHC really did suck in that country...but that was in that country which you haven't named. There are many others all throughout the world that have had a UHC for decades without issue. What if the problem wasn't that the foreign country you were in had a UHC but instead that it had a leadership problem?

Clearly defined villians like Insurance company CEO's and 'Tea Baggers'.

Sometimes the "villian" really is that clear cut and simple though.

 

[mesyn191]

Our upcoming healthcare plan is nothing like, say, the Finnish healthcare plan.

I wasn't aware that I had said it was?

 

[atp1916]

Let it burn.

awwwwwww.

 

[Stiletto]

Sometimes the "villian" really is that clear cut and simple though.

In fantasy land, where "free health care" exists.

 

[mesyn191]

In fantasy land, where "free health care" exists.

Ever hear of Rockerfeller or Rick Scott or Jeff Skilling or Oliver North?

I've also pointed out a few times now only the poor would get free health care and it'd be free in terms of out of pocket costs.

Its this sort of selective memory/delusion in the TP'ers replies that helps to incite the snippy responses.

 

[Stiletto]

Ever hear of Rockerfeller or Rick Scott or Jeff Skilling or Oliver North?

Yeah, they all had volcano fortresses and robot armies.

I've also pointed out a few times now only the poor would get free health care and it'd be free in terms of out of pocket costs.

It's not free. Someone has to pay for it.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

I wasn't aware that I had said it was?

The point being that ours is (will be) incredibly wasteful and will have a financial impact on those in the low-middle class. You can't have UHC in a country where corruption, crony lobby and a general distrust of government exists.

In Finland it works very well. Because they have little corruption, the people actually trust their government and corporate interests are kept at arms length. The solution is not for the US citizens to suddenly start trusting the govenrment, but to weed out corruption and ridiculous spending. Make taxation fair and consistent and limit exploitation in private healthcare.

 

[MasonD]

Current status: No healthcare. I haven't seen a doctor in many many years...for anything, nada! Can't afford (around) $400 a month for mediocre high deductible coverage, for an individual (Glad I don't have offspring, can't afford it).

Current plan: Starting tomorrow will be on my states website for it getting the ball rolling and when I learn the prices only then will I make a more informed opinion. I don't give a flying squirrel who eats the cost of my insurance as long as I have cheap insurance for the first time in my life. I think anything the GOV touches turns to shit but I need some cheap health insurance at some point in my life. Something like 10-12 years never seeing a doctor just doesn't feel safe or wise. So many people die from preventable stuff but don't catch things early on, and that'd probably be me (waves).

The whole government is fuckery but I need an inspection after this long going full on primitive existing, it's tough being me...lol. However if they want near normal costs I would have to pay now for decent coverage....fuck them POS's, they can DIAF.

My overall wish would be for our nation to stop building up our countries war machine (war for profit but off the tax payers backs) and instead use those savings for improving (free/no additional cost) healthcare/education/infrastructure/NASA research/etc....but our gov is pure fuckery at this point and needs to be rebuilt, but that's not going to happen. I honestly think our very own government would nuke its own populace to stay in power, serious. These people are normal crazy fucks but with power of kings and we won't ever be free until every last king is dead! And currency is no longer debt based (AKA perpetual wage slavery). Anyway, if this insurance ends up being affordable for people like me, fuck you people crying about me getting it. If it's cheap enough to where I can actually see a doctor regularly for the first time in my life and potentially preventing myself from just dropping dead prematurely...I'm in!

Still fuck every politician, red or blue, black or white, full homo sapien or half neanderthal (lol). Men seeking positions of power then abusing it should be the first people crazy fed up fucks kill, not shootup theaters, malls, or schools. I still don't get why politicians arent targeted more for their treachery (just went on every watch-list for that comment). Oh well. Where's my low cost national healthcare? Until I see what becomes of it all.

 

[mesyn191]

Yeah, they all had volcano fortresses and robot armies.

The villian had scare quotes around it for a reason. What do you think scare quotes are there for?

It's not free. Someone has to pay for it.

"in terms of out of pocket costs", this was also talked about back on page 4..

 

[Retronym]

John wants Jimmy to have heat in the winter so he doesn't freeze. John gives Jimmy $20.

John puts a gun to Mark's head and tells him to give Jimmy $20 too.

Its just basic civility.

 

[Stiletto]

I don't give a flying squirrel who eats the cost of my insurance as long as I have cheap insurance for the first time in my life.

And that is why we are doomed.

 

[mesyn191]

You can't have UHC in a country where ...

I think you can indeed have a UHC in such a country, it just won't be very effective. I've said several times now this (ie. PPACA or a crappy/corrupt UHC) isn't what I want or my ideal. But we have to make the best of what we've got and in the mean time work towards reform. Of both the PPACA and govt. at the same time. It seems to me this has been done before at least once in US history during the Great Depression/pre WWII era. The alternative is either giving in to apathy or attempt to become a revolutionary which is pretty unrealistic or untenable IMO.

 

[Ideon]

The only thing I can say is this: I don’t vote because this is what happens….

We vote in complete retards that tricked all the voters that did vote for them. I almost think of them as suckers for falling for it. (For those of you that do vote I’m not trashing on them/you guys, just looking at it from the outside)

But let’s be real, how many times do you hear people say one thing to get elected then they don’t do it?
Or better yet is electing and voting for someone that bashes their opponent with TV commercial ads? To me they seem like they are acting like 2 year olds tattle-telling on each other.

Also I don’t vote because I’d just be voting for retard #1 or retard #2 it’s a loose, loose situation. They say they are “for the people” when they just want the job to benefit for them self’s.

IDK just my two digital pennies / rant.

 

[Retronym]

Its never been about helping others.

 

[mesyn191]

Ideon have you considered voting for a small 3rd party? The US doesn't have a "vote of no confidence" on its ballot but that is about as close as you can get.

Succumbing to apathy is what many of these politicians want too BTW since it helps the "complete retards" win primaries and elections. Some food for thought.

"Pray for a low turnout," he tells supporters in a competitive upstate New York district. Terry explains that if mainstream voters shy away from the polls in record numbers this fall, as expected, extreme rightwing candidates will have an opportunity to win contests that were once beyond their reach.

Terry and his followers may be relying on prayer to keep turnout down. But the nation's most savvy Republican operatives are taking matters into their own hands. They're working a strategy that seeks to make the 1998 elections a private party to which most American voters are not invited.

"Politics is about two things: Mobilizing your voters, and not mobilizing the other side. Both are valid goals," says Bill McInturff, a Republican pollster. He argues that conservatives can score unprecedented victories this fall if they "reduce the juice"--lower the interest level to such an extent that the small percentage of voters who zealously back conservative causes can dominate.

 

[Mchart]

Well clearly there are things worth paying for, like service members' paychecks.

That being said, bring the boys / girls home so that they can get re-trained / re-equipped for civvy life so that they can support their own families.

I am very, very tired of hearing about how we got enemies abroad, about how we got terrorists running around in the wings, about how we got this and that conflicting with 'national interests' in a country - and that fixing this is keeping up a constantly deployed military that costs $$$$ to run. So much $$$ to run that paychecks don't even go out.

Let it break.

Then maybe our soldiers can come home.

OK.

That's fine.

Doesn't change the fact that the government shutdown is happening *now* and the politicians in questions won't be bringing troops back home. Instead they are expecting them to continue fighting without pay.

If the Republicans cared (And they don't care.) they would submit an action plan doing things like you say. Not holding government employee's hostage to their crybaby game over Obama-care.

 

[Mchart]

And that is what is ridiculous to me. Of all the things they'd hold us hostage for it's fucking Obama care. At this point it's simply inane when everyone knows there are other things out there that cost far more and have less public benefit.

 

[Low Roller]

I'm no fan of Obama, and I REALLY dislike the ACA, but the way these tea party controlled Republican assholes are trying to go about getting rid of it is completely irresponsible.

The pathetic thing is, shutting down the government will not stop the ACA from going into effect. The ACA is not subject to annual appropriations funding bills. Regardless of what does or doesn't happen in congress, the ACA marches on gets funded anyway.

The impending shutdown though is not what worries me most, however. The Republicans plan to use this extortion-style politics in the upcoming "crisis" over the debt sealing. They are threatening to default on the national debt if Obama doesn't give them their way. Fuck them. What they are trying to do is reprehensible. The potential economic consequences of a default can not be overstated. It would be a treasonous act by the Republicans IMO if it happens.

 

[DarkStar_WNY]

pfff make it easy no house or senate members get paided either and that starts first and mandatory 50% pay cut cause the results say they ain't worth it and are on the take anyways.

Here's a funny true story...one of the only budget item not effected by sequestration is Congressional pay.

Remember that normally the first thing Congress does when creating any law is exempt themselves from it.

There hasn't been a budget in, what, three years? So how did these sites stay up during that time?

Well the lack of a budget hasn't kept them from spending more then ever.

I hope they don't cutoff or repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act.

I can't get medical insurance from any major insurance company like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, or others except for a state run insurance from the state of California. Why? I have cancer, the major insurance companies consider it a pre-existing condition. The best excuse Blue Cross gave me in a one page letter summarizes it down to this: It'd be too expensive to cover me for the duration of any necessary cancer treatment.

If I paid out of pocket, my chemotherapy treatments, hospital stays, doctor visits, and any possible surgery for one to one and a half years would cost approximately half a million dollars. I don't have that money. I'd rather die than try to pay off the medical bills if that happened. There is absolutely be no way I'd be able to come up with nearly $500,000 to pay for medical bills. I got lucky that I got approved by the state-run insurance.

And, they just voted to delay the AHCA for another year. I was hoping to see it take effect January 1st. The AHCA would have prevented insurance companies from denying someone like me from getting insurance.

I don't know how long I will be able to stay on the state run insurance especially if and when I return to work. And, when I return to work, I'm sure I'll need periodic medical checkups to ensure that the cancer hasn't returned.

I'm hoping that with the AHCA I'd also be able to find affordable health insurance as well after I start working again.

But, no. These fucking idiots in Congress would rather delay funding it for another year than cut their own paychecks by a certain amount or cut spending to the defense budget or other other unnecessary programs.

They'd rather see the majority of the American people in poverty as well as any war veterans, and have people without any means for medical insurance.

They're unempathetic idiots.

While I feel for you, why exactly do you think you should be entitled to sign up with a company knowing that your bill, for an illness you already have, will costs tens of thousands more each year then what you would be paying?

Yes it sucks, but requiring insurance companies to sign people up who are already suffering from an illness, and making them cover that illnesss would be like requiring them to sell you low cost collision insurance on your car AFTER you've totaled it.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

I'm no fan of Obama, and I REALLY dislike the ACA, but the way these tea party controlled Republican assholes are trying to go about getting rid of it is completely irresponsible.

The pathetic thing is, shutting down the government will not stop the ACA from going into effect. The ACA is not subject to annual appropriations funding bills. Regardless of what does or doesn't happen in congress, the ACA marches on gets funded anyway.

The impending shutdown though is not what worries me most, however. The Republicans plan to use this extortion-style politics in the upcoming "crisis" over the debt sealing. They are threatening to default on the national debt if Obama doesn't give them their way. Fuck them. What they are trying to do is reprehensible. The potential economic consequences of a default can not be overstated. It would be a treasonous act by the Republicans IMO if it happens.

While the Republicans may be a group of shitty brats, it's well within their legal right to do this. Treason isn't a word that comes into play.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

While I feel for you, why exactly do you think you should be entitled to sign up with a company knowing that your bill, for an illness you already have, will costs tens of thousands more each year then what you would be paying?

Yes it sucks, but requiring insurance companies to sign people up who are already suffering from an illness, and making them cover that illnesss would be like requiring them to sell you low cost collision insurance on your car AFTER you've totaled it.

That's why when you're healthy and don't need to go to the doctor you should get reimbursed for a portion of what you paid into your insurance when you move on or cancel your insurance (with limits to prevent fraud). Otherwise, health insurance is a scam.

 

[Skripka]

Yes it sucks, but requiring insurance companies to sign people up who are already suffering from an illness, and making them cover that illnesss would be like requiring them to sell you low cost collision insurance on your car AFTER you've totaled it.

Which is all well and good...except that medical care of any sort is too goddamn expensive for just about anyone to afford without insurance coverage. It happens every year, people conduct their financial lives right their entire lives. And get bankrupted by medical care costs for things like cancer. Should anyone who is sick with a non-covered condition really be told to go die in a hole when they cannot afford the cost of treatment?

Boot-straps is all well and good. Until you have loved ones who are decimated by "pre-existing conditions" and being booted from insurance for costing too much to treat.

 

[Low Roller]

While the Republicans may be a group of shitty brats, it's well within their legal right to do this. Treason isn't a word that comes into play.

Hence why I prefaced that statement with IMO. I'm using that term loosely.

 

[Stiletto]

It would be a treasonous act by the Republicans IMO if it happens.

That is a quite frighteningly irrational and hysterical statement.

 

[Ideon]

I'll have to look into this for the next election.

Thanks for the info.

Ideon have you considered voting for a small 3rd party? The US doesn't have a "vote of no confidence" on its ballot but that is about as close as you can get.

Succumbing to apathy is what many of these politicians want too BTW since it helps the "complete retards" win primaries and elections. Some food for thought.

 

[Stiletto]

I'll have to look into this for the next election.

Thanks for the info.

Keep in mind he linked you to a self-proclaimed left-wing periodical.

And that the article is from 13 years ago.

 

[beowulf7]

Hopefully it'll shutdown whitehouse.gov until Jan. 2017.

 

[DarkStar_WNY]

I'm no fan of Obama, and I REALLY dislike the ACA, but the way these tea party controlled Republican assholes are trying to go about getting rid of it is completely irresponsible.

The pathetic thing is, shutting down the government will not stop the ACA from going into effect. The ACA is not subject to annual appropriations funding bills. Regardless of what does or doesn't happen in congress, the ACA marches on gets funded anyway.

The impending shutdown though is not what worries me most, however. The Republicans plan to use this extortion-style politics in the upcoming "crisis" over the debt sealing. They are threatening to default on the national debt if Obama doesn't give them their way. Fuck them. What they are trying to do is reprehensible. The potential economic consequences of a default can not be overstated. It would be a treasonous act by the Republicans IMO if it happens.

So the Republicans not giving into the Democrats is treason but the Democrats not giving in to Republicans is just fine and dandy?

What the left want everyone to ignore is they push their agenda through piecemeal and are gradually shift our government toward their lefitst ideals.

For example, if you look at the ACA in, and everything else the left has done to healthcare lately, it's not only made to fail but it definately will, and guess what will happen when it does? The DNC and whoever they have in office will cry "See, it failed because of the evil insurance companies so we need to a single payer system.."

Due to government cuts in the reimbursement rates hospitals are loosing money like never before and due to the fact that private insurers follow those same reimbursement schedules so even if the overall cost of healthcare doesn't increase people's medical bills will continue to grow as they are forced to cover a larger share of their medical expenses. Of course when this causes the current system to start collapsing it will be blamed on the insurance companies and not on the government which controls the reimbursement schedules.

A perfect example of this is my local non-profit hospital's dialysis unit.10 years ago the unit made a slight profit on each treatment, not a lot but some profit is better then none, but today despite cutting staffing by 10-15% they loose money on every medicaid of medicare patient they treat (which account for more then 80% of their patients.)

That is but one example of course, and the hospital itself went from making money, which was used to improve the hospital as well as expand & improve the care they provided, is now loosing money and is looking to sell off the specialty units such as dialysis to private companies which can still make a profit by providing a lower quality of care, such as using "techs," with just enough training to be able to stick a needle in your port and start the machine, in place of RN and LPNs that staff the unit currently.

 

[Skripka]

So the Republicans not giving into the Democrats is treason but the Democrats not giving in to Republicans is just fine and dandy?

You realise that...the reason the ACA is basically Bob Dole's healthcare overhaul from the 90s is because Democrats gave the GOP everything it claimed it wanted? Right? And they still voted against it, and have continuously re-voted against it 44 times no since it was passed.

Apart from the Democrats voting the GOP Emporer's for Life...what more of the henhouse is left for the Dems to "give in" to the GOP on?

 

[DarkStar_WNY]

That's why when you're healthy and don't need to go to the doctor you should get reimbursed for a portion of what you paid into your insurance when you move on or cancel your insurance (with limits to prevent fraud). Otherwise, health insurance is a scam.

Well if that's the case then shouldn't their cap for expenses they pay be equal to your premiums? I mean otherwise following your logic your scamming them.

Which is all well and good...except that medical care of any sort is too goddamn expensive for just about anyone to afford without insurance coverage. It happens every year, people conduct their financial lives right their entire lives. And get bankrupted by medical care costs for things like cancer. Should anyone who is sick with a non-covered condition really be told to go die in a hole when they cannot afford the cost of treatment?

Boot-straps is all well and good. Until you have loved ones who are decimated by "pre-existing conditions" and being booted from insurance for costing too much to treat.

I said in my post that you responded to that I don't think insurance companies should be able to drop you simply because you get sick or your care gets to expensive, but by the same token you shouldn't be able to force a massive expense on a company, and those they insure, after the fact? Basically this appears to be a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Let's say you have a medical condition that you know will cost you at $40,000 a year for the rest of your life. Do you really think that a company should be required to sell you insurance for $5,000 a year knowing they will loose, and their other customers will need to make up, $35k on you every single year?

Should we also require the lottery office to sell me a Powerball ticket from the for the drawing this past May that was for $590 million? Afterall it's not fair that I shouldn't be able to choose my numbers and buy a ticket just because the drawing was done already. Or as I said before, should an insurance company be requred to sell you collision insurance for $1000 a year and cover the $10,000 damage you did to your car the week before?