Death Stranding (first title from Kojima Productions)

I've finally gotten to the point where things have opened up a little and I'm building roads and riding my bike again. Between that and fast travel and I'm having more fun with the game. It's less of a "walking simulator" and feels more like a game. Not sure I like it, but I'm at least no longer only playing it in 10-minute spurts. Seems like an odd choice to begin the game so slowly. They almost lost me pretty early.

Something weird I've noticed: sometimes Sam just does things on his own. Not sure if that's an intentional part of the game, but sometimes my Sam will just toss grenades without me hitting the button. Or he'll get off his bike and punch air for no reason. It hasn't gotten me killed before, but I have lost 3-4 hematic grenades and gotten spotted by raiders like that.
 
Something weird I've noticed: sometimes Sam just does things on his own. Not sure if that's an intentional part of the game, but sometimes my Sam will just toss grenades without me hitting the button. Or he'll get off his bike and punch air for no reason. It hasn't gotten me killed before, but I have lost 3-4 hematic grenades and gotten spotted by raiders like that.
key binds or anything of the sort going on?
 
Why does everyone suck Kojimas nuts? His shit seems super overrated and sometimes boarders on autistic.
Judging by the game's financial failure, not many do.

Good job putting words in my mouth. Your nonsense is clearly not what I was saying. I specifically said that the game would not exist if it were not made by Kojima. Sony wouldn't give anyone else the kind of money they gave to Kojima to make this kind of weird, experimental, game. Kojima has his own style and there is no one else in the industry that produces things exactly like him. That's like saying people would hate Deadly Premonition if it wasn't made by Swery, but the game wouldn't be what it was without his mind behind it. Just because other weird, experimental, off the wall games exist does not mean that they're the same as what Kojima does. It helps to know what the fuck you are talking about before shitting on people's opinions.
After this flop, I don't see many publishers taking such a chance again. It will be back to indies for experiments of this scope.
 
Judging by the game's financial failure, not many do.
Do you have a source for that? I'm not doubting it, just haven't seen anything but rumors. Of course if the sales were great they'd be advertising the numbers not hiding it. Still it would be good to know how much of a flop it was actually.
 
Do you have a source for that? I'm not doubting it, just haven't seen anything but rumors. Of course if the sales were great they'd be advertising the numbers not hiding it. Still it would be good to know how much of a flop it was actually.
No hard numbers, but the wording of various statements and articles, and how quickly talk of its sales got burried, speaks volumes.

EDIT: The one hard number given, 3 million total players on PSN, doesn't inspire confidence it even recouped the investment, let alone turned a meaningful profit.
 
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key binds or anything of the sort going on?

I'm using a pad and haven't touched anything related to the control scheme, so I doubt it.

I wouldn't be shocked if the game totally tanked. Lots of people seem to be aware of it, but prior to the PC release I didn't know anyone who actually played it. With all of the talk about the game being tedious and a "walking simulator" (which isn't wrong), people probably stayed away. After putting in around 15 hours, I still don't know if I could give it better than a C- or a D. It doesn't suck, but my time spent actually enjoying what I'm doing has been pretty limited. So far the graphics and atmosphere are the only things keeping me going. If this wasn't a COVID year, I'd probably have bailed.
 
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the game sounds exactly like what the reviews stated...nothing surprising...totally not worth it for me...maybe when the price drops to dirt cheap levels it's worth a look
 
the game sounds exactly like what the reviews stated...nothing surprising...totally not worth it for me...maybe when the price drops to dirt cheap levels it's worth a look

It is exactly what they say it is. It's not something everyone would enjoy because you have to specifically want the experience it offers to make it worth it. Personally I think its pretty great for when I just want to play a relaxing game, but yea definately not something for everyone. I managed to put 40 hours into it so far, guessing I'm about halfway done but I'm taking my time since I don't see it as a game I will replay ever. Would probably be worth it for like $15 for someone who has like no interest in it if you just want to play a few hours and see the technology the games built on, it's definately nice to look at that's for sure.
 
It's the kind of game that makes for a killer tech demo. It looks fantastic and shows off HDR, DLSS, etc. really well. View distances are massive, there's no pop-up, and performance is almost unrivaled. It makes me want other developers to use whatever the hell Team 505 used to make/port it. Frankly, I wish a "real game" looked and ran like this instead.
 
No hard numbers, but the wording of various statements and articles, and how quickly talk of its sales got burried, speaks volumes.

EDIT: The one hard number given, 3 million total players on PSN, doesn't inspire confidence it even recouped the investment, let alone turned a meaningful profit.

Kojima said:
We surpassed the amount we needed to make a profit, so I think it sold well enough to be called a ‘success,’ recoupment of development costs included. We’ll release the PC version soon and have already secured enough profit to prepare for what’s next, so there’s no need to worry.

https://www.gematsu.com/2020/05/hid...-recouped-costs-profit-secured-for-next-title

So, probably not a massive success but not as bad as you were assuming.
 
The truthfulness of his claim is questionable. The published numbers don't back him up and neither do internal leaks (for what they are worth, of course).

Thats a pretty big accusation, given Kojima has a large degree of accountability for saying such a thing.
 
It's the kind of game that makes for a killer tech demo. It looks fantastic and shows off HDR, DLSS, etc. really well. View distances are massive, there's no pop-up, and performance is almost unrivaled. It makes me want other developers to use whatever the hell Team 505 used to make/port it. Frankly, I wish a "real game" looked and ran like this instead.

On your last note, check out Horizon Zero Dawn whenever it releases. It’s the same engine but a much more realized game.

Of note on the Decima Engine even as far back as 2013 when Killzone Shadowfall released it really was an absolutely beautiful game, and still looks pretty good now. Guerrilla have just been lobbing improvements onto that engine and Digital Foundry have some great videos on it if that stuff interests you at all. I believe one of the videos is even an interview with Guerrilla.

And frankly being designed to run on the PS4 with its anemic CPU, it’s damned impressive.
 
Judging by the game's financial failure, not many do.

After this flop, I don't see many publishers taking such a chance again. It will be back to indies for experiments of this scope.
The truthfulness of his claim is questionable. The published numbers don't back him up and neither do internal leaks (for what they are worth, of course).
I'm trying to imagine getting this angry and worked up over a videogame I have no personal financial stake in. Good lord.
 
I'm trying to imagine getting worked up over a digital storefront like Epic versus Steam ;)
In minor defense of that, Tencent and the lack of storefront staples like a cart.....granted I never used Epic store (not in any sort of protest or last stand I just haven’t) but the lack of certain staples just feels plain lazy. It annoys me that Nintendo still doesn’t have a cart for their Switch store. Just like it annoys me PSN lacks a wishlist, and I’m not sure any of them(consoles) allow sending gifts.

Not really dealbreakers but I can see why people would complain. Though that Tencent thing I can also see why it may be a dealbreaker for some.
 
I'm trying to imagine getting worked up over a digital storefront like Epic versus Steam ;)

I can get it more than the videogame, especially the lack of features in the epic store front, steam literally built the template to copy (shopping cart, wishlist, or at least an intuitive interface). epic lacks all of those and pays for exclusives, its just annoying and epically lazy on their part.
 
In minor defense of that, Tencent and the lack of storefront staples like a cart.....granted I never used Epic store (not in any sort of protest or last stand I just haven’t) but the lack of certain staples just feels plain lazy. It annoys me that Nintendo still doesn’t have a cart for their Switch store. Just like it annoys me PSN lacks a wishlist, and I’m not sure any of them(consoles) allow sending gifts.

Not really dealbreakers but I can see why people would complain. Though that Tencent thing I can also see why it may be a dealbreaker for some.

they have been adding features on a regular basis...yes it's still not on the same level as Steam etc but it's fine if all you care about is the game itself...I like Steam better overall but I have no issues buying a game via Epic
 
I can get it more than the videogame, especially the lack of features in the epic store front, steam literally built the template to copy (shopping cart, wishlist, or at least an intuitive interface). epic lacks all of those and pays for exclusives, its just annoying and epically lazy on their part.

paying for exclusivity is commonplace with a lot of products...Netflix pays to have exclusive content, Disney+, game bundles via Nvidia/AMD, VR exclusives etc...it's nothing new...people just like to make up excuses to justify not buying from Epic Store
 
paying for exclusivity is commonplace with a lot of products...Netflix pays to have exclusive content, Disney+, game bundles via Nvidia/AMD, VR exclusives etc

not even close to the same thing, one is something that netflix and disney actual produce, the other is paying to release a product on one store front only when originally it was annouced to release on all store fronts.

Still the lazy missing features that already existed and should be a no brainer to include.

anyway, enough OT.

I stand by my OG statement having played 30 hours, yes, this game is all of the above.
 
not even close to the same thing, one is something that netflix and disney actual produce, the other is paying to release a product on one store front only when originally it was annouced to release on all store fronts.

I was referring to shows like Friends, The Office etc...Netflix pays to have content air exclusively on their platform for a set period of time
 
I was referring to shows like Friends, The Office etc...Netflix pays to have content air exclusively on their platform for a set period of time

Old cable shows you could have caught on cable, or buy both digitally or physically from multiple sources. Not the same thing, and the path your going down has no comparison to Epic exclusivity.
 
The truthfulness of his claim is questionable. The published numbers don't back him up and neither do internal leaks (for what they are worth, of course).

Why are you so desperate for this game to be a failure?
 
No hard numbers, but the wording of various statements and articles, and how quickly talk of its sales got burried, speaks volumes.

EDIT: The one hard number given, 3 million total players on PSN, doesn't inspire confidence it even recouped the investment, let alone turned a meaningful profit.
I only read 3 million in regards to that's how many unsold physical copies they were sitting on.
 
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they have been adding features on a regular basis...yes it's still not on the same level as Steam etc but it's fine if all you care about is the game itself...I like Steam better overall but I have no issues buying a game via Epic
I don't just care about the game itself. I care about how it is delivered. That's why I will not purchase a single game on the microsoft store and on the epic store until they turn their shit around. But they don't seem particularly keen on improving. The MS store is still the same garbage it has been for years, and epic is still dabbling with exclusivity deals, and trying to win over customers by bribes. I'd not go there on principle alone even if it was as good as steam as a platform.
 
On your last note, check out Horizon Zero Dawn whenever it releases. It’s the same engine but a much more realized game.

Of note on the Decima Engine even as far back as 2013 when Killzone Shadowfall released it really was an absolutely beautiful game, and still looks pretty good now. Guerrilla have just been lobbing improvements onto that engine and Digital Foundry have some great videos on it if that stuff interests you at all. I believe one of the videos is even an interview with Guerrilla.

And frankly being designed to run on the PS4 with its anemic CPU, it’s damned impressive.

I forgot that Horizon was even coming. That's one of those games I've been meaning to play for a while, so the timing is great.

EDIT: Looks like it'll be available on Friday. That's REALLY good timing. I still want to see how Death Stranding plays out, but I'm going to need something else to break up my time.
 
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Go cry in a corner and hug your DS blanket. It's not my fault the game performed as it has, I couldn't care less either way.

For someone that "couldn't care less" you seem incredibly angry about being challenged on your irrational desire for a game to fail. Seems to me that you are VERY desperate for the game to fail for some insane reason and can't handle that notion being wrong.
 
For someone that "couldn't care less" you seem incredibly angry about being challenged on your irrational desire for a game to fail. Seems to me that you are VERY desperate for the game to fail for some insane reason and can't handle that notion being wrong.
I have provided reports and numbers. Emotional projections are entirely your own.

The game's estimated budget is most often in the $80-100M range. Even if we take an extremely conservative estimate of $60M, it's not likely a game with less than 4 million players (not sales, which are lower) on PS has recouped its cost, and even less that it made an acceptable profit.
 
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I'm fairly enjoying it now that I'm in Chapter 3. I share the general sentiment that the game feels is exceptionally slow to start and am not sure how to feel about it. Now that I've progressed, built roads and gotten a power skeleton--I am appreciating these upgrades (and general boost to the speed of travel and progression) far more than if they appeared in the first hour of the game. But, I wonder how many people gave up on the game, 3 or 4 hours in, and never reached this more exciting point.

I very much enjoyed the mechanics of BTs being something to fear/avoid for a significant stretch, until I had tools to fight them. This brought back fond memories of my early days in MMORPGs like Asheron's Call and WoW and the (a) flexibility to go anywhere you want combined with (b) the consequence of running afoul of something you cannot possibly fight. That element is absent from a lot of modern games that scale difficulty to your character and DS helped me remember how much I missed it.

I'm mixed on the overall gameplay. Visuals, sound are simply outstanding. The online / multiplayer integration is unique and, for the most part, to my liking - I'm not sure there's ever been a single player campaign game with this kind of 'opt in' multiplayer experience. I do wish it was more deterministic; I can never discern why structures do or do not get likes. Vehicle control is terrible... just terrible. This is a significant detraction to the experience and I'd love to see it improved. Overall leveling up also feels very scattershot / non-deterministic; sometimes the smallest delivery significantly ups my porter level; other times I deliver a dozen packages in perfect condition, in record time, garner 10x the likes, and yet my stats barely budge. This game certainly seems to motivate a healthy theory-crafting ecosystem yet there's nothing out there that I can find, perhaps because the game is so opaque about letting us peek underneath the covers.

Overall I'm pleased, and also completely accepting of the fact that this game will drive some people crazy. I also agree with the sentiment that the reviews are spot in--read them and if you're not sure the game's for you, it probably isn't.

As to sales, Kojima Productions is not a publicly traded company but the game's affiliation with Sony Entertainment on the PS4 makes it HIGHLY UNLIKELY that Kojima would make misleading statements about sales volumes and profitability. Personally, I'll accept that likelihood over Meeho's unaffliated opinion of the situation. This feels like a Waterworld of computer games... extremely expensive, very mixed critical reaction, actually not a bad product, profitable, and not a record setting sales blockbuster.
 
As to sales, Kojima Productions is not a publicly traded company but the game's affiliation with Sony Entertainment on the PS4 makes it HIGHLY UNLIKELY that Kojima would make misleading statements about sales volumes and profitability. Personally, I'll accept that likelihood over Meeho's unaffliated opinion of the situation. This feels like a Waterworld of computer games... extremely expensive, very mixed critical reaction, actually not a bad product, profitable, and not a record setting sales blockbuster.
Fair enough. Kojima is the most biased person involved, though, and on the other side we have what figures we do and an awfully quiet Sony which not only hides figures they would normally brag about, but refrains from even making qualitative statements.

In the end, be it technically in the red or black, the game is a commercial flop. That doesn't mean you shouldn't like it and consider it good.
 
"Commercial flop" is an undefined, subjective and meaningless phrase that adds little to the conversation. If you're sticking to numbers and not emotional opinion, as you claim you are, then whether the game is in the red or the black is the only metric that matters. A product's pre-release commercial expectations nearly always are influenced by some level of emotion, and your posts suggest some personal investment (be it emotional, intellectual, or financial) in whatever the market expectations for this game's sales were. If that's not the case and we're sticking to numbers, I'd be very interested in understanding your model for games sales/revenue since I haven't seen such a model and would love to learn about it. I only ask because you seem to feel very strongly that everyone here recognize the game's "failure" so I can only assume that feeling is based on a robust model that we can study and learn from.
 
I think the point people are trying to make is that regardless of how good or bad it sold the overall feelings on the game itself are lackluster at best...even the hardcore Kojima-holics don't think this is a top tier game...it has it's pros but overall it's not going to be remembered for long
 
If it was so called commercial flop I doubt they would of released a PC port. Kojima is more then happy with the sales.
 
I've finally gotten to the point where things have opened up a little and I'm building roads and riding my bike again. Between that and fast travel and I'm having more fun with the game. It's less of a "walking simulator" and feels more like a game. Not sure I like it, but I'm at least no longer only playing it in 10-minute spurts. Seems like an odd choice to begin the game so slowly. They almost lost me pretty early.

Something weird I've noticed: sometimes Sam just does things on his own. Not sure if that's an intentional part of the game, but sometimes my Sam will just toss grenades without me hitting the button. Or he'll get off his bike and punch air for no reason. It hasn't gotten me killed before, but I have lost 3-4 hematic grenades and gotten spotted by raiders like that.
This is a known bug with the Xbox one wireless controller if that’s what you’re using.
 
If it was so called commercial flop I doubt they would of released a PC port. Kojima is more then happy with the sales.
The opposite, they wouldn't have released a PC port so fast if the PS version was doing great. Kojima may be, but Sony is rumored not as much.
 
I gotta say I am in awe with this game. It is my first Kojima game, and my first DLSS game. Sometimes I just find myself starring at the landscape. In most games you look at the landscape wishing you could climb that mountain, while in this one you actually can. As much as I enjoy mind numbing constant action in some games, this one brings a nice relaxing visually amazing scenario with sprinkles of action here and there. I appreciate how you sometimes have to walk away from something and are not forced to have to kill your way through. I am not a pacifist in any way, but I appreciate the game basically telling you "you can come back and kill this thing when you are able to." And then there is the problem of not being able to kill other humans. Otherwise, they turn into nukes lol.

I was worried if I would like this game before I bought it. But then I saw a video of just how weird it can get, and that got me hooked. 85+ hours later I am still loving it. And I don't think I am even 1/4 of the way through, but I am taking my time with it. Instead of rushing through all the missions, I am slowly rebuilding our highway system and placing bridges in strategic locations to make my future orders easier.

The only thing I am unhappy with is how some of the BT locations are constant...for now. I would have appreciated slightly more variety.
 
This is a known bug with the Xbox one wireless controller if that’s what you’re using.

In fact it is. Good to know. It hasn't caused me any serious grief yet, but I've definitely wasted some grenades and damaged cargo unintentionally.
 
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