Day 1 console updates

ballistic90

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So for this generation, games and consoles seem set up for Day 1 updates right away. The Wii U had a 1 to 2 gig update initially to bring the online features up. The PS4 will require a day 1 update to even enable DVD and Bluray playback at all, Remote play on the Vita, DVR functions, facial recognition, and all online functions. Hell, even the games are falling into this trap, with Forza requiring a large download, and Killzone requiring 7.5 gigs to be downloaded just to play the first level, with more to be downloaded while you play (Edit: this was based on a mistaken interpretation of a news post. Killzone does not require a day one update for the disc copy in hindsight, that makes more sense).

What happened to releasing games/consoles with all the features and functions enabled out the damn gate? I feel like game companies are abusing the online connectivity features. Thoughts?
 
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Kinsaras

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FYI...Killzone thing is only if you buy the game digitally. Buy the disc, no download.
 

ballistic90

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FYI...Killzone thing is only if you buy the game digitally. Buy the disc, no download.

Really? The way everyone was blasting it, it sounded like that was the required update to play the game.

Still, I'll leave that in my post and continue the conversation.
 

Vegasr

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I agree it would be nice to be all complete from day 1. However taking into consideration manf and production times I like how devs are constantly working on improvements. If this requires a day one dl to improve the game and they couldn't get it into the final production release, then more power to them.
 

King Icewind

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It makes more sense for the disc to require the download considering it has to go through production, shipping, etc. and .. where as the digital could be updated pretty much up until release day.. But hey, I'm getting the disc so if this is true; I ain't complainin.
 

jbltecnicspro

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So for this generation, games and consoles seem set up for Day 1 updates right away. The Wii U had a 1 to 2 gig update initially to bring the online features up. The PS4 will require a day 1 update to even enable DVD and Bluray playback at all, Remote play on the Vita, DVR functions, facial recognition, and all online functions. Hell, even the games are falling into this trap, with Forza requiring a large download, and Killzone requiring 7.5 gigs to be downloaded just to play the first level, with more to be downloaded while you play.

What happened to releasing games/consoles with all the features and functions enabled out the damn gate? I feel like game companies are abusing the online connectivity features. Thoughts?

Not a big fan. Especially since internet providers are now capping. It used to be that you buy consoles and their games to avoid the necessities of updating.
 

Kinsaras

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Really? The way everyone was blasting it, it sounded like that was the required update to play the game.

Still, I'll leave that in my post and continue the conversation.

Yeah it got blown way out of proportion. Reading the article it states it’s only for digital copies. This is pretty impressive when you think about it. Name a game on Steam you can start to play before its finished downloading.

But to add to your list the Xbox One requires a day one patch just to work at all. :rolleyes:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/1/4791340/xbox-one-day-one-patch-download-time

How I feel about it? Kind of mixed. I’m always online some way or another it doesn't affect me much. Yet if my internet were to go out that day, I’d imagine I’d be in rage mode. Seems odd to me why not just include the update with the system. I can only guess it’s some legal reason holding them back if they want to meet the release date.
 

ballistic90

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Yeah it got blown way out of proportion. Reading the article it states it’s only for digital copies. This is pretty impressive when you think about it. Name a game on Steam you can start to play before its finished downloading.

But to add to your list the Xbox One requires a day one patch just to work at all. :rolleyes:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/1/4791340/xbox-one-day-one-patch-download-time

How I feel about it? Kind of mixed. I’m always online some way or another it doesn't affect me much. Yet if my internet were to go out that day, I’d imagine I’d be in rage mode. Seems odd to me why not just include the update with the system. I can only guess it’s some legal reason holding them back if they want to meet the release date.

Who knows how long the PS4 download is.

Taking all bets!!! What features will not be available on day one for either console? PS4 won't support Pause/resume functionality, even with the patch. What other features won't work? What won't work on the Xbox One, even with the patch?
 

King Icewind

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I'm not looking forward to the server load either. I'll bet the downloading is going to be slow...
 

Kinsaras

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I'm not looking forward to the server load either. I'll bet the downloading is going to be slow...

Oh yikes! I didn't even think of that. I imagine Christmas will be bad too. All the boys and girls opening up their shiny new systems.
 

next-Jin

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I didn't care with the Wii U update or any other day 1 updates on a console. These things have to be taped out long before release so that I can understand.

However using ridiculous statements suggesting a 7.5GB download for Shadow Fall for disc users and then refusing to edit the post speaks volumes (People even corrected you in that News posting). A digital purchase is a digital purchase this is expected. That being said, games that need a gigantic patch day 1 even if they are bought at retail is bs.
 

eloj

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The PS4 will require a day 1 update to even enable DVD and Bluray playback at all

This is not what the patch notes said. It said "Users can enjoy not only gaming on their PS4 system, but also Blu-ray and DVD video contents. When using for the first time, users must connect to the internet to activate this feature".

In practice it may be the same, but I think this is a separate (licensing related) issue.
 

ballistic90

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I didn't care with the Wii U update or any other day 1 updates on a console. These things have to be taped out long before release so that I can understand.

However using ridiculous statements suggesting a 7.5GB download for Shadow Fall for disc users and then refusing to edit the post speaks volumes (People even corrected you in that News posting). A digital purchase is a digital purchase this is expected. That being said, games that need a gigantic patch day 1 even if they are bought at retail is bs.

I didn't edit it because I don't believe in hiding mistakes, and secondly it screws up Kinsaras' post making the correction. I edit posts to add things, not to play pretend.

Edit: Hmmmm.... on second thought, I'll add an update to my original post with the intention of trying to maintain the original content, pointing out the incorrect statement.
 
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ballistic90

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This is not what the patch notes said. It said "Users can enjoy not only gaming on their PS4 system, but also Blu-ray and DVD video contents. When using for the first time, users must connect to the internet to activate this feature".

In practice it may be the same, but I think this is a separate (licensing related) issue.

Perhaps, but that doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense to me. Internet connectivity isn't a requirement for a dedicated Bluray player or DVD player, why is it different for a console?
 

Godmachine

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Who cares ? Its only a few gigs so unless you are using your phone or a sat connection to download its just a bit of waiting time. I can't remember a console launch with online capability that didn't experience some hiccups during its first day of sale.

The PS4 will have a few hundred megabytes to download , the Xbox One will probably have 1-3GB's to download (to strip the DRM and modify a few core system features) and we'll probably all experience a slow download but it'll get downloaded and it'll be quickly forgotten.

The short memory of the Internet is famously "long" but only in forum references and sometimes an article. Its the price of admission to day one access , its something we've gotten use to. It sucks yea , especially when you consider consoles use to just plug in and function 100% without patching but we also get the benefit of added features we didn't have before online functionality came into the picture. Just look at the Xbox 360 from 2005 to now in 2013 , VASTLY different experience and console.
 

Bman123

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You gotta pay to play, release day should be interesting to see.
 

Rizen

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I don't really care honestly. Takes a few extra minutes, no big deal.
 

JohnleMVP

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I don't really care honestly. Takes a few extra minutes, no big deal.

I don't care either as long as its pretty quick. The WiiU wasn't though and it caught some people off guard hoping to play xmas day.
 

chameleoneel

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So for this generation, games and consoles seem set up for Day 1 updates right away. The Wii U had a 1 to 2 gig update initially to bring the online features up. The PS4 will require a day 1 update to even enable DVD and Bluray playback at all, Remote play on the Vita, DVR functions, facial recognition, and all online functions. Hell, even the games are falling into this trap, with Forza requiring a large download, and Killzone requiring 7.5 gigs to be downloaded just to play the first level, with more to be downloaded while you play (Edit: this was based on a mistaken interpretation of a news post. Killzone does not require a day one update for the disc copy in hindsight, that makes more sense).

What happened to releasing games/consoles with all the features and functions enabled out the damn gate? I feel like game companies are abusing the online connectivity features. Thoughts?

Are you so mad that you are skimming articles/news for anything download related and then yelling about it? You are crowing about GOOD things.

Digital PS4 games will allow you to start playing the game, before the entire game is downloaded. For Killzone 4, which is like a 30gig game, you can start playing after that first 7.5 gig chunk is finished. That's not a day 1 patch, that's downloading your digital purchase and then playing it. Ideally, play of some capacity, would start after a smaller chunk. Maybe in the future. For a launch title, play after 1/4 of the game is loaded, is pretty good!

*and I'm really not surprised PS4 will have a day 1 update. They do PS3 updates every month, sometimes two or three times per month. Over the life of the PS3, tons of new features and refinements have been added.
 

next-Jin

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Are you so mad that you are skimming articles/news for anything download related and then yelling about it? You are crowing about GOOD things.

Digital PS4 games will allow you to start playing the game, before the entire game is downloaded. For Killzone 4, which is like a 30gig game, you can start playing after that first 7.5 gig chunk is finished. That's not a day 1 patch, that's downloading your digital purchase and then playing it. Ideally, play of some capacity, would start after a smaller chunk. Maybe in the future. For a launch title, play after 1/4 of the game is loaded, is pretty good!

*and I'm really not surprised PS4 will have a day 1 update. They do PS3 updates every month, sometimes two or three times per month. Over the life of the PS3, tons of new features and refinements have been added.

He is trying to downplay the new consoles. He side shrugs the Wii U stuff as an annoyance and dives right into every nitpick he can going so far as to post wrong information even when corrected by several people in multiple threads.

More of this is coming, it's to be expected. Sort of like how people are now saying 720p is fine or that it will lead to a solid 30fps or more eye candy.
 

ballistic90

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Are you so mad that you are skimming articles/news for anything download related and then yelling about it? You are crowing about GOOD things.

Digital PS4 games will allow you to start playing the game, before the entire game is downloaded. For Killzone 4, which is like a 30gig game, you can start playing after that first 7.5 gig chunk is finished. That's not a day 1 patch, that's downloading your digital purchase and then playing it. Ideally, play of some capacity, would start after a smaller chunk. Maybe in the future. For a launch title, play after 1/4 of the game is loaded, is pretty good!

*and I'm really not surprised PS4 will have a day 1 update. They do PS3 updates every month, sometimes two or three times per month. Over the life of the PS3, tons of new features and refinements have been added.

Nah, I put in the complaint about the Killzone game becuase I thought it was an update, not the digital download version of the game. That's a different situation altogether and I edited my post above to reflect that.

Although Forza still has that problem, which is damn annoying.
 

ballistic90

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He is trying to downplay the new consoles. He side shrugs the Wii U stuff as an annoyance and dives right into every nitpick he can going so far as to post wrong information even when corrected by several people in multiple threads.

More of this is coming, it's to be expected. Sort of like how people are now saying 720p is fine or that it will lead to a solid 30fps or more eye candy.

Yeah, did you notice that I did include the Wii U in that post? No, you read for what YOU want to see. And I did update the Killzone part in my original post with a disclaimer that it wasn't true, but left the complaint for Forza intact.

Is the Ps4 really just a several hundred meg download for the day 1 update? It sounds like it'll be more, but I don't see anything indicating that or not, yet. Xbox One day one update sounds like a several gig update already. I was fairly annoyed that for 2 hours after I got my Wii U I had to wait for it to update before I got to use it, and it seems like bullshit that it's becoming a standard.
 

NoOther

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The simple answer to this is that systms today are far more complex than they were in the past. And they are constantly working to update them and make them better. In the old days consoles didn't use flashy OS's, they had basic firmware that allowed it to read and play from a cartridge or disc.

Perhaps, but that doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense to me. Internet connectivity isn't a requirement for a dedicated Bluray player or DVD player, why is it different for a console?

Seriously?!?!

Okay for starters, yes most Blu-Ray players now do require internet connectivity for updates. In the past there were many that weren't upgradable and just about the only ones you could get that were, were made by Sony. The original allure of the PS3 (and coincidentally the reason I got one) is that Sony promised it would allow always allow the users to upgrade to the newest version of Blu-Ray.

Second and I can't believe I even have to mention this but...Console > Blu-Ray player. It is far more complicated, has a full featured OS and has a ton of interactive components. And seriously, you want to bring DVD players into this? I don't even...
 

next-Jin

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Yeah, did you notice that I did include the Wii U in that post? No, you read for what YOU want to see. And I did update the Killzone part in my original post with a disclaimer that it wasn't true, but left the complaint for Forza intact.

Is the Ps4 really just a several hundred meg download for the day 1 update? It sounds like it'll be more, but I don't see anything indicating that or not, yet. Xbox One day one update sounds like a several gig update already. I was fairly annoyed that for 2 hours after I got my Wii U I had to wait for it to update before I got to use it, and it seems like bullshit that it's becoming a standard.

You mentioned the Wii U in a 1 off sentence like it was irrelevant. It took them damn near a year so Yea, not really the same in depth critique.
 

ballistic90

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You mentioned the Wii U in a 1 off sentence like it was irrelevant. It took them damn near a year so Yea, not really the same in depth critique.

Wait, it took them damn near a year for what? When getting the Wii U, the update SEEMED to take a year, but it wasn't THAT bad.

Sorry, I think I'm missing something important to what you meant to say.
 

ballistic90

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The simple answer to this is that systms today are far more complex than they were in the past. And they are constantly working to update them and make them better. In the old days consoles didn't use flashy OS's, they had basic firmware that allowed it to read and play from a cartridge or disc.



Seriously?!?!

Okay for starters, yes most Blu-Ray players now do require internet connectivity for updates. In the past there were many that weren't upgradable and just about the only ones you could get that were, were made by Sony. The original allure of the PS3 (and coincidentally the reason I got one) is that Sony promised it would allow always allow the users to upgrade to the newest version of Blu-Ray.

Second and I can't believe I even have to mention this but...Console > Blu-Ray player. It is far more complicated, has a full featured OS and has a ton of interactive components. And seriously, you want to bring DVD players into this? I don't even...

I brought in DVD players because the PS4 requires internet connectivity before it can play DVDs. That's why I brought DVD players into this. And also, Bluray players with internet access is not required to play Bluray discs, but they support added features for those discs and other general features.

And yes, I know a fucking console is different from a dedicated media player. However, notice how one requires internet to do the same thing the other does not. For reference, please check the FAQ at blu-ray.com (http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_connection) about how the Blu-ray format does not require internet connectivity to play the discs.
 

NoOther

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And yes, I know a fucking console is different from a dedicated media player. However, notice how one requires internet to do the same thing the other does not. For reference, please check the FAQ at blu-ray.com (http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_connection) about how the Blu-ray format does not require internet connectivity to play the discs.

I don't need to check the link. The difference is one is a complex system with many interactive parts, and the other isn't. The Day 1 update for the PS4 is not just for the Blu-Ray portion it updates a lot more. The system itself encompasses far more and isn't meant to be just a Blu-Ray or DVD player. Your equating it to Blu-Ray players and DVD players is just plain silly.
 

ballistic90

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I don't need to check the link. The difference is one is a complex system with many interactive parts, and the other isn't. The Day 1 update for the PS4 is not just for the Blu-Ray portion it updates a lot more. The system itself encompasses far more and isn't meant to be just a Blu-Ray or DVD player. Your equating it to Blu-Ray players and DVD players is just plain silly.

I'm equating it because if you literally buy a fucking PS4, and bring it home and do not plug an internet connection in, it will not be able to play DVDs or Blu-rays. What about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?
 

Godmachine

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If you are using a Blu Ray player odds are you have an active Internet connection and that you can download 300-400 megs without breaking a sweat.

I just do not understand why this is a big deal. My Denon receiver downloaded new firmware when I used it for the first time , took 15 minutes to download and 10 to install. Based on some of the logic here I guess I should have returned it :rolleyes:
 

ballistic90

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If you are using a Blu Ray player odds are you have an active Internet connection and that you can download 300-400 megs without breaking a sweat.

I just do not understand why this is a big deal. My Denon receiver downloaded new firmware when I used it for the first time , took 15 minutes to download and 10 to install. Based on some of the logic here I guess I should have returned it :rolleyes:

Did it not work at all without downloading the update? I'm willing to bet that if you buy a Blu-ray player and don't connect it to the internet, it'll probably play a Blu-ray.

And for the record, I understand for the most part what the point is to these day one updates. When a console is manufactuered and sent out for review units and whatnot, all that they REALLY need to do is play the games. The rest of the OS and features can still be worked on and released as a required update on launch day. I understand that, but I still feel like all three manufacturers are abusing that feature. It used to be that the console had to do everything they promised it would by the time of release. Patches were to fix problems, not to enable everything they said it would do.

And it's true that most people will have the internet access to download updates, and barring a server congestion problem, most people won't have to wait too long to get to using their new device. There's still plenty of people with shitty internet, and for them to bring a console home to find it can't use half of it's features is a kind of slap in the face. My family still lives in an area where they get to choose between a shitty 3G cellular internet service and shitty satellite service. 50 GB caps per month is pretty damn harsh. Yes, it's fun to tease them by showing off your cheap cable internet, but this type of shit sucks for them.
 

JohnDoe9541

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I'm equating it because if you literally buy a fucking PS4, and bring it home and do not plug an internet connection in, it will not be able to play DVDs or Blu-rays. What about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Yea because people buy a PS4 day one for the Blu-ray right?
 

next-Jin

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My family still lives in an area where they get to choose between a shitty 3G cellular internet service and shitty satellite service. 50 GB caps per month is pretty damn harsh. Yes, it's fun to tease them by showing off your cheap cable internet, but this type of shit sucks for them.

That day one Wii-U patch must have been an absolute bitch.

My apologies for your purchase.
 

Ocellaris

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I'm complaining because it's lazy as hell on the developer's side.

Not necessarily lazy, just a choice. It takes a lot more work to make the update available via internet download than it does to simple include the files with every console. More likely that they are doing it to save money up front (they pay the licensing fee for playback when the file is downloaded, not when they produce the console).

Anyway I don't see the day one updates from either console being a problem. The target audience for these consoles is well connected, and both companies have had production up and running for weeks (possibly months) in an attempt to make the quantity they want to have for the holiday season. I would much rather get a day one update than open the box and deal with old buggy code on either system. I suspect each console will be receiving a few additional updates before the end of the year as well, to address problems and missing functionality.
 

Godmachine

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Well, theres this thread that is on fire at GAF, xbone is having some major issues behind the scenes, launch could have some issues:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705667

CBOAT has even posted. If you know what that means.....

This is hysterical.

KuVgiU7.gif
 

nalc

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As an engineer, I don't have a problem with the concept of needing a day one patch for something. It's not like the guys are in the office at 11pm the night before launch, putting the finishing touches on the software to get it to go out at midnight, so the stores can update the consoles individually before they launch them. There's probably a pretty significant approval/release process, followed by lead times to get the software to incorporate into the production hardware that's going to be available on launch day. Chances are, a month ago or longer, the development team was told that they need to snap a line and release the best they had at the time in order to have it on the consoles on launch day. And, chances are, they didn't just all go on vacation after that, they've been making further improvements. And they're going to have to snap a line and put everything that's ready at that point in time into a release for the day 1 patch, then they're going to have to snap a line again for future patches. There's always work going on, and if you draw a line in the sand and say "I need to launch what I have at this moment, otherwise it won't be through the release and production process in time for launch day", the next working day it's going to be outdated, because more work will have been done. If you want to wait until all work is stopped and the software is as good as it's going to get and won't need any further updates, you're going to be waiting until it's obsolete.
 

ballistic90

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As an engineer, I don't have a problem with the concept of needing a day one patch for something. It's not like the guys are in the office at 11pm the night before launch, putting the finishing touches on the software to get it to go out at midnight, so the stores can update the consoles individually before they launch them. There's probably a pretty significant approval/release process, followed by lead times to get the software to incorporate into the production hardware that's going to be available on launch day. Chances are, a month ago or longer, the development team was told that they need to snap a line and release the best they had at the time in order to have it on the consoles on launch day. And, chances are, they didn't just all go on vacation after that, they've been making further improvements. And they're going to have to snap a line and put everything that's ready at that point in time into a release for the day 1 patch, then they're going to have to snap a line again for future patches. There's always work going on, and if you draw a line in the sand and say "I need to launch what I have at this moment, otherwise it won't be through the release and production process in time for launch day", the next working day it's going to be outdated, because more work will have been done. If you want to wait until all work is stopped and the software is as good as it's going to get and won't need any further updates, you're going to be waiting until it's obsolete.

Day one patching itself isn't a huge deal by itself, but when it's required for a majority of the console's core features to work at all is when it becomes an issue to me.
 
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