"Dark Souls : Prepare to Die Edition" coming to PC.

the game sounds interesting but I'm worried about the insanely hard difficulty level...is it hard just for the sake of being hard and to make players backtrack through potentially hours of wasted time?...limiting saves is great if done right but making the enemies insanely difficult just to make players die often does not sound fun...I don't see why so many reviewers find this so much fun

if anything it has the potential to be a major pain in the ass
 
polonyc2 said:
the game sounds interesting but I'm worried about the insanely hard difficulty level...is it hard just for the sake of being hard and to make players backtrack through potentially hours of wasted time?...limiting saves is great if done right but making the enemies insanely difficult just to make players die often does not sound fun...I don't see why so many reviewers find this so much fun

if anything it has the potential to be a major pain in the ass
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It's difficult but not cheap. I never felt the game cause me to die because of poor controls or bad camera or just unfair enemies. "I" made a mistake and the game will punish you for those mistakes. Well for 95% of the game anyways. Some of those bosses can suck towards the end.

If you can get to the spot where you were killed, you can pick up all your souls and pretty much double your XP. So don’t look at death as a compete punishment. If anything it limits grinding for levels.
 
polonyc2 said:
the game sounds interesting but I'm worried about the insanely hard difficulty level...is it hard just for the sake of being hard and to make players backtrack through potentially hours of wasted time?...limiting saves is great if done right but making the enemies insanely difficult just to make players die often does not sound fun...I don't see why so many reviewers find this so much fun

if anything it has the potential to be a major pain in the ass
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Let's put it this way; I watched a couple Let's Plays where the players were... not terribly smart or fantastic at games, and they were able to finish the game. That is not to say it isn't hard, from what little I played, it is - just that you should usually learn from your mistakes and try to figure out how to operate your build.
 
Kinsaras said:
It's difficult but not cheap. I never felt the game cause me to die because of poor controls or bad camera or just unfair enemies. "I" made a mistake and the game will punish you for those mistakes. Well for 95% of the game anyways. Some of those bosses can suck towards the end.

If you can get to the spot where you were killed, you can pick up all your souls and pretty much double your XP. So don’t look at death as a compete punishment. If anything it limits grinding for levels.
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but I hear it's not about dying because of poor controls but simply because the enemies (and especially bosses) are just crazy hard...forcing you to die and replay long stretches...it's almost unfairly hard for the sake of making you rinse and repeat...this to me does not sound fun especially when it's the developers intention for you to die numerous times because there is simply no way of defeating enemies the first time...there should always be a reasonable way to defeat any enemy the first time...maybe even after a few tries but this game sounds like you need to spend a lifetime trying to defeat even basic enemies and especially bosses

being forced to memorize layouts and enemy movements sounds very tedious...it does sound like a major grind...yes you'll feel satisfied when you finally defeat the guy you've been trying to kill for the past 12 hours but it also has the potential to turn people off
 
I think you heard that from people who couldn't figure it out. People with ADHD might not fare well in the game, as it requires a good memory and patience.

Try watching some tutorial videos on youtube by EWSGF (or something, I don't think that's right) doing PvP. It will give you some insight on basic combat in PvE as well.
 
polonyc2 said:
but I hear it's not about dying because of poor controls but simply because the enemies (and especially bosses) are just crazy hard...forcing you to die and replay long stretches...it's almost unfairly hard for the sake of making you rinse and repeat...this to me does not sound fun especially when it's the developers intention for you to die numerous times because there is simply no way of defeating enemies the first time...there should always be a reasonable way to defeat any enemy the first time...maybe even after a few tries but this game sounds like you need to spend a lifetime trying to defeat even basic enemies and especially bosses

being forced to memorize layouts and enemy movements sounds very tedious...it does sound like a major grind...yes you'll feel satisfied when you finally defeat the guy you've been trying to kill for the past 12 hours but it also has the potential to turn people off
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Just don't go rushing into an unexplored room swinging wildly and you'll be ok for the most part. Mostly what makes Dark Souls so hard is the unknown. Once you know how to handle the enemies, it can be very easy. Some guy did do a speed run of it in less that 2hrs & 30mins after all.

Layouts are easy and enemy movement isn't really a problem. They are always in the same spot.

The only thing I don't like about Dark Souls is it's very easy to wonder into an area you're not ready for, due to the open world aspect. For this reason I like Demon's Souls "level" format much better.

Also you don't have to go THAT far back. There is almost always a save right before bosses or close to them. Once you open up shortcuts, they will stay open forever too.
 
polonyc2 said:
the game sounds interesting but I'm worried about the insanely hard difficulty level...is it hard just for the sake of being hard and to make players backtrack through potentially hours of wasted time?...limiting saves is great if done right but making the enemies insanely difficult just to make players die often does not sound fun...I don't see why so many reviewers find this so much fun

if anything it has the potential to be a major pain in the ass
Click to expand...

man up
 
polonyc2 said:
but I hear it's not about dying because of poor controls but simply because the enemies (and especially bosses) are just crazy hard...forcing you to die and replay long stretches...it's almost unfairly hard for the sake of making you rinse and repeat...this to me does not sound fun especially when it's the developers intention for you to die numerous times because there is simply no way of defeating enemies the first time...there should always be a reasonable way to defeat any enemy the first time...maybe even after a few tries but this game sounds like you need to spend a lifetime trying to defeat even basic enemies and especially bosses

being forced to memorize layouts and enemy movements sounds very tedious...it does sound like a major grind...yes you'll feel satisfied when you finally defeat the guy you've been trying to kill for the past 12 hours but it also has the potential to turn people off
Click to expand...

How are you getting to all these wild conclusions without even playing the game yet?

Yes, it's challenging, but not in the trial-and-error sort of way. This is one of the few games that actively punishes you for mistakes. You can very well beat bosses on your first try (as I did), but most of the time you won't because you usually freak out and start running around like a headless chicken while swinging wildly. The game teaches you to keep it cool, and most importantly, patience. By simply backing away, playing defensively and watching the enemies' pattern, you'll get all the information you need.

Or you can be one of those guys that die 50 times in the tutorial level then say the game sucks because he has a life and can't waste it on games like this (then proceed to brag about his 300+ hour skyrim playthrough, this literally happened on another forum).
 
Having never played either game, does it play along the lines of say...the Witcher 2, or more action-based like Ninja Gaiden...or neither?
 
Domingo said:
Having never played either game, does it play along the lines of say...the Witcher 2, or more action-based like Ninja Gaiden...or neither?
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From the videos I've seen it seems a lot slower than Ninja Gaiden. Probably more like The Witcher.
 
Domingo said:
Having never played either game, does it play along the lines of say...the Witcher 2, or more action-based like Ninja Gaiden...or neither?
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Gameplay is like a slower Ninja Gaiden. You still roll out of the way of opponents and attacks in that same vein, but the movement is slower.

You cannot pull a Witcher and just brute force your way through a fight with health and magic. The game will reward you by eating up all of your grass and magic and then killing you.

For me, NG was harder than Demon's Souls. There were a couple of enemy-types I just never overcame the whole time I played NG, but as I played DS I gradually realized the correct strategy for beating any type of enemy.
 
Domingo said:
Having never played either game, does it play along the lines of say...the Witcher 2, or more action-based like Ninja Gaiden...or neither?
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I'd say Witcher 2 in style (there's no combos, just light attack and heavy attack) and movement, but in DS every action uses up Stamina so you can't spam dodges or attack forever.
 
polonyc2 said:
but I hear it's not about dying because of poor controls but simply because the enemies (and especially bosses) are just crazy hard...forcing you to die and replay long stretches...it's almost unfairly hard for the sake of making you rinse and repeat...this to me does not sound fun especially when it's the developers intention for you to die numerous times because there is simply no way of defeating enemies the first time...there should always be a reasonable way to defeat any enemy the first time...maybe even after a few tries but this game sounds like you need to spend a lifetime trying to defeat even basic enemies and especially bosses

being forced to memorize layouts and enemy movements sounds very tedious...it does sound like a major grind...yes you'll feel satisfied when you finally defeat the guy you've been trying to kill for the past 12 hours but it also has the potential to turn people off
Click to expand...

I really like Dark Souls but honestly the difficulty level of the game is drastically over rated (well at least on regular new game mode). You rarely get sent back very far when you die. When you do die you can get your souls and humanity back by simply getting back to where you died. And even if you don't make it back you only lose the souls and humanity, you still have all your items, weapons, armor, and level. The bosses aren't all that hard, I've beaten a bunch of them on my first try and the others in 2-4 tries. There isn't to many spots where you get jumped or trip a trap and when you do its not all that bad. The AI isn't all that bright and a lot can be beat by simply being patient and drawing them to you one at a time. And if you are having troubles you could just go level up a bit.and upgrade your stuff.
 
I agree with the post suggesting more than 10 FPS in blight town... I've died countless times due to frame rate issues. That, and maybe I can avoid about half my lag-induced backstab deaths in PvP. Also, here's hoping no exploits with level 4 characters with all stats maxed. Half my invaders have hacked stats, nothing worse than pulling off an epic backstab for 790 damage only to see their health bar didn't move....
 
oh ffs, They are going to use GFWL? Why, oh gawd why? They are just turning off half of their prospective buyers with that :(. Last game I bought that had that was GTA4.

EDIT: watched the TB link and I see the reason why now. Still doesn't stop me from hating GFWL. I will do some more research and see reviews before buying the game.

Also, I agree, TotalBiscuit nails it right on the head about the piracy issues. This is why I am always watching him, he "gets it" majority of the time. He's my mouth piece of representing my opinions. Wished he would run for office :D
 
polydiol said:
why bother bringing it to pc with GFWL?

won't bother.
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No dark souls on PC - Not surprising.

Dark souls PC petition - Hey cool, they probably won't do it though.

Dark souls coming to PC - Nice! They listened.

Dark souls will have GAWFUL - lolwut
 
I'll buy it either way. GFWL is terrible, but it didn't give me trouble with Batman AC. Signed the petition, hopefully they decide to do Steam / GoG or something instead.
 
Buxaroo said:
oh ffs, They are going to use GFWL? Why, oh gawd why? They are just turning off half of their prospective buyers with that :(. Last game I bought that had that was GTA4.

EDIT: watched the TB link and I see the reason why now. Still doesn't stop me from hating GFWL. I will do some more research and see reviews before buying the game.

Also, I agree, TotalBiscuit nails it right on the head about the piracy issues. This is why I am always watching him, he "gets it" majority of the time. He's my mouth piece of representing my opinions. Wished he would run for office :D
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Yeah I feel the same way about GFWL. TB makes a lot of good points in that video. It sucks that they're using GFWL, but like he said I'd rather have that then them spending too much time and money on another system and potentially making a bad port. August is not that far away so they're going to busy as hell porting it.
 
My strong interest stated on page 2 is effectively killed because of GFWL.
 
Derangel said:
Yeah I feel the same way about GFWL. TB makes a lot of good points in that video. It sucks that they're using GFWL, but like he said I'd rather have that then them spending too much time and money on another system and potentially making a bad port. August is not that far away so they're going to busy as hell porting it.
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That being said, while I had a high interest for this title I will stick to my choice to never purchase GFWL games again. I learnt my lesson with lost game saves, GTA IV and it's hidden Legacy DRM.
 
_PixelNinja said:
That being said, while I had a high interest for this title I will stick to my choice to never purchase GFWL games again. I learnt my lesson with lost game saves, GTA IV and it's hidden Legacy DRM.
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I don't blame you, but GFWL has gotten a lot better since GTAIV. Personally I've had had the lost save issue way back with Gears of War. I lost some with Batman: AA due to the stupid way they're encrypted to prevent you from using them when reinstalling an OS. GFWL seriously needs cloud saving support.
 
It will be interesting to see how many people disregard their beliefs to buy this game. Seems a lot of exceptions being made by some people.
 
I dislike GFWL, but I don't believe that such a nuisance is enough for me to get all "holier than thou" and never purchase the game. That seems like an extreme stance for a relatively minor issue in relation to the entire game itself.

Seriously, it's like the stupid Internet meme of disregarding a beautiful woman because she has pointy elbows or stubby thumbs (a la Megan Fox).
 
Many do not consider the loss of your saves when you have completed 3/4 of the game nor being stuck in a cycle where you have to continuously install the service (with it failing each time) a 'minor issue'. The qualms with GFWL are valid.

And no it's not like that -- it would actually be akin to frequenting said beautiful woman and discovering she is a cantankerous maniac (with memory loss to boot). Would you to go back to her after the bad experience?

Like TB said in his video, if you are fine with GFWL by all means purchase the game. But there is no reason to belittle those who have issues with the service.
 
erf said:
Self-entitlement dominates another gaming thread.
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You really need to learn the correct usage of that term. Disliking something that has been PROVEN to be a piece of shit and problematic and deciding not to purchase something based on experiences with it is far from self-entitlement. Self-entitlement would be demanding that the developers make the game easier because you don't like challenges.
 
I have had far more issues with steam than GFWL in my 5 years of PC gaming.

Achievements+PC graphics (1440p or 3D) with Dark Souls is a win in my book.
 
Well that sucks. Never used GFWL, does this basically mean it wont be available to purchase through Steam and I'd have to *gasp* go buy a physical copy of the game?!

This is probably the reason why gamers love the PC platform (choices) and at the same time why developers hate the PC platform (choices). At least with the consoles, you get what they give you and that's it. We're so used to choices that we demand what we personally like and well... I think it's the PC gamers that kill the PC platform, not piracy.
 
Skillz said:
Well that sucks. Never used GFWL, does this basically mean it wont be available to purchase through Steam and I'd have to *gasp* go buy a physical copy of the game?!

This is probably the reason why gamers love the PC platform (choices) and at the same time why developers hate the PC platform (choices). At least with the consoles, you get what they give you and that's it. We're so used to choices that we demand what we personally like and well... I think it's the PC gamers that kill the PC platform, not piracy.
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It means no matter where you purchase the game it will have GFWL. Therefore if Dark Souls is distributed on Steam (which I suppose will be the case) the game will have layered DRM ; Steam + GFWL which is redundant and unnecessary.

And while I do not really understand your second paragraph, yes of course that is why gamers love PC -- the very nature of the platform is such that it is about choices. You lost me at the PC platform being killed though. PC gaming is nowhere near dead.
 
Honestly, I'm one of the people who has nothing but issues with GFWL. I've managed to get it working 80% of the time, I simply have to tweak the MTU on my PC (I have a customer VPN installed that needs a MTU lower than 1500, GFWL doesn't work with that).

I also have to enable UPNP AND make my PC an exposed host, why it needs both, I don't know, and I really don't like having to put my PC in that position, but so far so good.

But having to do this any time I want to play one of these games is annoying. Every other online service "just works" or maybe requires 1 or 2 ports to be forwarded. Why MS is unable to configure a decent piece of Software... well TB touched on that in his video that was linked above.

I'll definitely by this game, I'd been debating getting a console in order to play it for a long time. But I'll wait for a really good Sale in order to get it. I'm not going to pay full price for a "partially broken"/Super inconvenient piece of Software.

Pirating the game due to GFWL would be entitlement, ordering it for a 50% off or better sale on steam is not.

I understand the reasons for using GFWL, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it, in fact, I'd rather the petition be directed at Microsoft to fix their software.
 
Derangel said:
You really need to learn the correct usage of that term. Disliking something that has been PROVEN to be a piece of shit and problematic and deciding not to purchase something based on experiences with it is far from self-entitlement. Self-entitlement would be demanding that the developers make the game easier because you don't like challenges.
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Self-entitlement - Mentally/Psychologically convincing oneself that they deserve better treatment/better "product" concerning any and everything that is personally attainable or offered as a service through hard work.

Come up with a better solution concerning online DRM, then get back with me on my understanding of what "self-entitlement" means. Until then go on whining about the relatively small inconvenience that GFWL presents in your life.
 
erf said:
Come up with a better solution concerning online DRM, then get back with me on my understanding of what "self-entitlement" means. Until then go on whining about the relatively small inconvenience that GFWL presents in your life.
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Easy Solution: Do like CD Projekt and use none.

Even Steam has issues, but GFWL are much more widespread and much more serious as a whole (I also suffered the disappearing save bug in several games, also not being able to move saves between my PC and my laptop).
 
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