Dark Souls 2 PC - April 25, 2014

[Stiler]

WHY downgrade the PC version though? That is what boggles my mind.

If the assets area there, if the lighting, etc all there why take it OUT for th epc's? Why not simply make it an option like every other pc game where youcan turn stuff on/off, lower detail, etc?

 

[polonyc2]

WHY downgrade the PC version though? That is what boggles my mind.

If the assets area there, if the lighting, etc all there why take it OUT for th epc's? Why not simply make it an option like every other pc game where youcan turn stuff on/off, lower detail, etc?

still no confirmation that they did that for PC...just rampant speculation based on the console releases...if they did it was probably to quell any discourse from console users who will feel slighted...I'm sure console sales are much more then the PC right?

 

[Stiler]

still no confirmation that they did that for PC...just rampant speculation based on the console releases...if they did it was probably to quell any discourse from console users who will feel slighted...I'm sure console sales are much more then the PC right?

That wouldn't even make much sense at all, to downgrade because of discourse from console users who'd get upset.

That'd be like Ubisoft making AC4 on pc/ps4/xbone look like the 360/ps3 versions.

 

[chameleoneel]

so you're saying From Software purposely set out to make a game with a new graphics engine and then downscale it?...

Uh no. I'm saying they paraded a demo, ads, and screenshots of a game that doesn't exist. Right up to release. The circumstances on why the final game doesn't look like the early demos are unknown and particularly confusing, because they had the early demos running well, on PS3. But anyway, the problem isn't that it was downgraded or any alleged reason for why it was downgraded. The problem is that they continued doing P.R. with the early demos/ads/screenshots. Right along side the release of the network betas and other screenshots, that clearly looked less good. Instead of owning up and telling us the situation or even just silently switching to only showing the actual game: they continued their optimistic quotes about the new engine and the emphasis on last gen consoles. and continued to show the old demos. They even flagged how the game actually looks, as "not final gameplay" days before release.

So basically, it was pretty easy to look at the network beta, the newer screenshots with simplified graphics, and the newer ads and think "work in progress". When really, that was "reality in progress".

Steam pulled the higher quality screenshots (presumably by From's request)

I would actually presume that Steam had them pulled. Because the old trailers and screenshots didn't go down from steam until after the downgrade controversy gained traction. Other places like the official DkS2 website and Amazon both still heavily feature screenshots from the early demos, which suggest that something about Steam itself, is the reason for pulling them. Not purely on the goodwill of From/Bamco. It's purely my speculation, but I imagine steam asked for screenshots that probably show what the PC game may actually look like, after it became clear that Dark Souls 2 does not look like the early demos.

I see a developer not experienced in PC trying their best to correct their mistakes from DS1 yet ran into a different issue this time around...the PC horsepower was too much for the last gen consoles causing a possible downgrade

That's a very likely scenario!

...I don't see this vast conspiracy...

The controversy is that they didn't tell us and they didn't quit using the juiced demos and screenshots.

Somebody watched these videos in January....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3MdOBH-jDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TowEGaVreLM

or the two making of videos I linked/talked about in previous posts, or any number of interviews/videos/ads/screenshots from the past year which I've talked about and/or linked in previous posts.....

....and then that somebody bought Dark Souls 2 thinking it would look like that. But it doesn't!

 

[LeviathanZERO]

Chameleoneel, what do you think those 1080p segments in the making of videos are from?
That is absolutely not console footage. What makes you say that? It definitely looks bland like the console footage though, that is why I believe the PC version is going to look the same.

But of course Bamco/From wont say anything...... this is so stupid.
I'm preordering on steam and canceling the CE. This whole thing has put a bad taste in my mouth...

 

[chockomonkey]

Chameleoneel, what do you think those 1080p segments in the making of videos are from?
That is absolutely not console footage. What makes you say that? It definitely looks bland like the console footage though, that is why I believe the PC version is going to look the same.

But of course Bamco/From wont say anything...... this is so stupid.
I'm preordering on steam and canceling the CE. This whole thing has put a bad taste in my mouth...

Yeap. Horrible PR on their part. That's the real shame. Why taint such an amazing game with such nonsense!?

 

[polonyc2]

That'd be like Ubisoft making AC4 on pc/ps4/xbone look like the 360/ps3 versions.

didn't I read that Ubisoft is making 2 separate versions of Assassin's Creed 5 this year?...one for the old gen and one for the new?

 

[polonyc2]

Yeap. Horrible PR on their part. That's the real shame. Why taint such an amazing game with such nonsense!?

From Software is not Valve or Ubisoft etc...they probably don't have the know how or resources to make public relations a priority...they are not going to admit that they downgraded graphics under any circumstances, that would be an even worse PR nightmare...they are telling the truth in their own way that performance necessitated the switch...all I care about is the PC version so hopefully it will look the part...all these issues have nothing to do with the PC but more about how console sales will be affected

Dark Souls is not Crysis or BF4...not many people are concerned about the graphics...it was just an added bonus

 

[LeviathanZERO]

Yeap. Horrible PR on their part. That's the real shame. Why taint such an amazing game with such nonsense!?

I wish I had a clue, cause the only thing I can surmise from this silence is they must be fast at work in "upgrading" the PC version due to the backlash......

Or, they could be doing nothing at all, and this is just a perfect example of PR at its worse....

It's mind boggling how it's so hard to get honesty out of people now days.....

 

[polonyc2]

I'm preordering on steam and canceling the CE. This whole thing has put a bad taste in my mouth...

most people who are ordering the CE are doing it for the figurine, cloth map etc...the game itself doesn't change...the collectables still look really cool

 

[LeviathanZERO]

most people who are ordering the CE are doing it for the figurine, cloth map etc...the game itself doesn't change...the collectables still look really cool

Giving Bamco $100+ at this point is rewarding them for this horrible dissemination of information. The gift's have nothing to do with it, I'm voting with my wallet, however small a point it may be.

 

[chameleoneel]

From Software is not Valve or Ubisoft etc...they probably don't have the know how or resources to make public relations a priority...they are not going to admit that they downgraded graphics under any circumstances, that would be an even worse PR nightmare...they are telling the truth in their own way that performance necessitated the switch..

I find it difficult to support apologist statements like this. It's apologist bullshit to say From can't do decent P.R.
A. a lot of P.R. is common sense
B. They've been making games for years. They are not new at making games or making P.R. Demon's Souls was not their first game.
C. with the souls game specifically, From has a history of being open and apologetic about their shortcomings with the engine and general game performance. This is a subtle reason why this whole sham has been particularly poisonous. They gave us an honest, straightforward post-mortem and apology for Dark Souls (that nobody even really asked for) and they even included Demon's Souls to an extent. And then in the drum up for Dark Souls 2, talk about how this time the engine was a large focus, was basically all new, and they were excited about what they were able to pull out of PS360. and they showed us playable demos, proving it. But they were taking us for a damn ride.

Dark Souls is not Crysis or BF4...not many people are concerned about the graphics...it was just an added bonus

I don't think comparisons to other games are even needed. Graphics aren't everything. Dark Souls 2 is reportedly a mostly fantastic game. and I really don't care that it looks the way it does. I've never truly been a graphics whore. But now especially, since I've been playing games for a long time, I'm more concerned with gameplay. Crysis 3 looks pretty great-----is an ok game.

 

[chameleoneel]

and for anyone interested, here's a link to a link of my full post on the extent to which they have taken all this (but does not include the "making of" videos, as I had not really watched them, by this point):

"Vaati" a popular DkS youtuber has a video of him playing the TGS build, which looks very similar to the initial gameplay reveal and he insists he was playing it on PS3. rather interesting, is that his video shows the full demo, with an area that most preview videos did not show:
http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewt...339820#1339820

Vaati helped work on one of the Dark Souls 2 strategy guides. A strategy guide video featuring him, was just linked on the Dark Souls 2 FB page yesterday or the day before.

here's my original post, with most of the relevant info I have compiled:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040701185&postcount=30

 

[Pivo504]

So will the pc version be as epic looking as the trailer or has it been gutted like the consoles?

 

[chockomonkey]

So will the pc version be as epic looking as the trailer or has it been gutted like the consoles?

It is a mystery. :ghost:

 

[polonyc2]

I keep hearing that the early parts of the game are way too easy (compared to the previous Souls games)...hopefully this is not the case...

 

[Tzzird]

I keep hearing that the early parts of the game are way too easy (compared to the previous Souls games)...hopefully this is not the case...

I didn't think so. I thought it was fairly paced. Certain bosses seemed too tough for the level of my character at a certain playthrough, but nothing a summon or two couldn't fix. My first three playthroughs on one character in Dark Souls 1 was something like: 60 hours, 30 hours, 15 hours.

With Dark Souls 2, it was very similar: 65 hours, 30 hours, 15 hours. The last five hours of the third playthrough was almost entirely PVP. So many options in this game... I love it.

 

[Cvar]

It is a mystery. :ghost:

Pretty much you will need a decent DX11 graphics card for around 720p resolutions that scores at least 500 or 30% higher for 1080p so about 650 or above if it doesn't support DX11 you probably need at least double that amount as the DX10/9 shaders are really slow. For measurements look here: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/directCompute.html .

CPU performance needs to be about 1000+ for 30fps or about 1500+ for 60fps measured here: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

In short the console versions were only getting around 15fps most of the later game (not the demo fyi) so they had to downgrade the lighting from the first part of the game as the later parts of the game are significantly more graphically complicated then the demo was. You might need 1GB of video card ram and 4GB of memory to run the game with higher textures and settings.

Basically the game on pc will ship with a few different settings medium and high to play with everything on high you will need a decent DX11 1GB video card, 4GB of Ram and at least a 1500+ cpu. If you don't have that stuff and your system ran dark souls 1 it will still probably run but probably only decently at console settings. At least that's probably what to expect at this point in time. I'm betting FromSoftware will most likely port the pc version of Dark Souls II to Xbox One and PS4 at a later date maybe this year maybe not.

 

[LurkerLito]

If you have bought stuff from GMG before and are on their email list, they sent me a 25% off coupon for DS2 today and I also got a $12 GMG credit for pre-buying it from them. It's not a general coupon code though, it is a one time use personal coupon so be sure you check your email.

 

[cageymaru]

If you have bought stuff from GMG before and are on their email list, they sent me a 25% off coupon for DS2 today and I also got a $12 GMG credit for pre-buying it from them. It's not a general coupon code though, it is a one time use personal coupon so be sure you check your email.

Thank you!

 

[polonyc2]

If you have bought stuff from GMG before and are on their email list, they sent me a 25% off coupon for DS2 today and I also got a $12 GMG credit for pre-buying it from them. It's not a general coupon code though, it is a one time use personal coupon so be sure you check your email.

25% off and $12 credit?...so you paid $25.50 total?...sounds like a great deal

 

[LurkerLito]

25% off and $12 credit?...so you paid $25.50 total?...sounds like a great deal

Yeah $37.50 total, then I have a GMG credit for future purchases of $12 so essentially $25.50, technically though that $12 isn't in mine till I buy another game from them, but I am sure I will in the future.

 

[DPI]

Must be a lot of people that got that code, overnight it shot to #1 on top sellers list. I paid $39.99 after $10 cashback on GMG. Good enough. Going to be one hell of a game.

 

[LeviathanZERO]

wow, thats a hot deal

 

[Stiler]

Yep I got the email too and promptly ordered it.

Cheapest LEGIT price for it.

 

[polonyc2]

I thought From Software was going to be releasing more details on the PC version 'a few weeks' before release...what happened?

 

[Pivo504]

Has anyone watched the videos on the website? they look pretty awesome hope the PC version follows that look...BTW is the control scheme similar to Castlevanie: Lord of Shadows? Never played a Dark Souls game so curious..

 

[Cvar]

Has anyone watched the videos on the website? they look pretty awesome hope the PC version follows that look...BTW is the control scheme similar to Castlevanie: Lord of Shadows? Never played a Dark Souls game so curious..

It's a 3rd person controller oriented game but it's control scheme is fairly unique and works pretty well for the most part. It's highly recommended that you use a controller for it though.

 

[Pivo504]

why controller? I find m&k to be better in 3rd person games for me at least..max payne castlevania ect are all a lot better

 

[skizzled]

why controller? I find m&k to be better in 3rd person games for me at least..max payne castlevania ect are all a lot better

Probably because Dark Souls on PC had more than it's fair share of issues regarding mouse and keyboard control. It was From's first foray into the PC market and it just shows their lack of experience with the platform. In general, it was much easier to play with a controller than a mouse and keyboard. Though, there are fixes out there that improve the usability greatly. Hopefully From gets it right this time.

Really, it comes down to what you are comfortable with and how well the developer implemented the various control schemes. Ports of console games, more often than not, are better with a controller. In my experience, at least.

I find playing Dark Souls with the PS4 controller to be an awesome experience.

 

[chockomonkey]

why controller? I find m&k to be better in 3rd person games for me at least..max payne castlevania ect are all a lot better

The reason I feel a controller is better is because it gives you more control over roll and attack direction. The keys on a keyboard would lock you into 0, 45, 90 ect degree angles of movement whereas you can get the whole spectrum with a thumb stick.

 

[chameleoneel]

The steam page has had an additional update, further removing even more screenshots. That seems to be indirect confirmation that the remaining screenshots are meant to be representative of the PC game. Which is to say; Dark Souls 2 PC looks like the console versions but with higher res textures and higher internal rendering resolution. It would appear that if there are any added effects, they are minimal.

I want to stress that isn't necessarily a bad thing and neither was it ever properly expected that the PC version would look any better. It's just another notch on the board for how awfully misrepresented this game has been. Which is a huge shame. Dark Souls 2 is a very good game with plenty of artistic visual merit in its own right. It just isn't the visual we were lead to expect, PC or PS360.

 

[polonyc2]

I want to stress that isn't necessarily a bad thing and neither was it ever properly expected that the PC version would look any better. It's just another notch on the board for how awfully misrepresented this game has been. Which is a huge shame. Dark Souls 2 is a very good game with plenty of artistic visual merit in its own right. It just isn't the visual we were lead to expect, PC or PS360.

that's a contradiction...if it was never expected then how could they have misrepresented anything?...the visual upgrade you were 'led to expect' was created in the minds of certain parts of the fanbase...if the PC version has higher res textures, lighting etc then it is a major upgrade...DS2 was never going to look like Crysis 3...when I viewed a video of someone playing the beta a few months back I also commented on the fact that the game 'looked' terrible in terms of graphics...the only official comments From Software has made in regards to the PC version were the 60 fps and higher res textures comment...early videos were not final code so things change like they do with most games...Dark Souls 1 wasn't anything amazing graphically even with dsfix but it looked really good (with low res textures in a lot of places)...but the gameplay was the absolute best and I'm expecting the same with DS2 with any additional graphics features as a bonus or cherry on top

 

[Stiler]

that's a contradiction...if it was never expected then how could they have misrepresented anything?...the visual upgrade you were 'led to expect' was created in the minds of certain parts of the fanbase...if the PC version has higher res textures, lighting etc then it is a major upgrade...DS2 was never going to look like Crysis 3...when I viewed a video of someone playing the beta a few months back I also commented on the fact that the game 'looked' terrible in terms of graphics...the only official comments From Software has made in regards to the PC version were the 60 fps and higher res textures comment...early videos were not final code so things change like they do with most games...Dark Souls 1 wasn't anything amazing graphically even with dsfix but it looked really good (with low res textures in a lot of places)...but the gameplay was the absolute best and I'm expecting the same with DS2 with any additional graphics features as a bonus or cherry on top

"Created in the minds of certain parts of the fanbase???

No....it was created when they published videos (of actual gameplay) showing off the better graphics then release looked nothing like the earlier videos.

Just like Watch Dogs.

Is this going to affect me buying the game/enjoying it? No.

Is it disappointing through? Yes.

 

[polonyc2]

No....it was created when they published videos (of actual gameplay) showing off the better graphics then release looked nothing like the earlier videos

early gameplay videos aren't meant to represent final build quality...they even put that disclaimer in a lot of early gameplay videos nowadays...yes it's disappointing but DS2 will definitely be a visual upgrade over its predecessor...I would like both gameplay and graphics to be top of the line but I'm not too devastated based on reviews of the game itself

 

[Focker]

early gameplay videos aren't meant to represent final build quality...they even put that disclaimer in a lot of early gameplay videos nowadays...yes it's disappointing but DS2 will definitely be a visual upgrade over its predecessor...I would like both gameplay and graphics to be top of the line but I'm not too devastated based on reviews of the game itself

The difference though is that usually they put those comments in the videos because they expect the game to be better than the pre alpha builds lol.

 

[Pivo504]

Focker: you are correct in on that one lol the videos on the web site look amazing and I'm hoping the pc version looks like that...or it at least looks like lord of shadows 2 for pc..

 

[Gabriel]

Damn, I haven't gotten that e-mail and I bought lots of games from GMG before.

 

[DPI]

The steam page has had an additional update, further removing even more screenshots. That seems to be indirect confirmation that the remaining screenshots are meant to be representative of the PC game. Which is to say; Dark Souls 2 PC looks like the console versions but with higher res textures and higher internal rendering resolution. It would appear that if there are any added effects, they are minimal.

I want to stress that isn't necessarily a bad thing and neither was it ever properly expected that the PC version would look any better. It's just another notch on the board for how awfully misrepresented this game has been. Which is a huge shame. Dark Souls 2 is a very good game with plenty of artistic visual merit in its own right. It just isn't the visual we were lead to expect, PC or PS360.

I'm not going to worry and draw conclusions every time the screenshots change on steam. Game is 3 weeks away, we'll all know then. Until then its just speculation. And I could care less how it looks on 360, this isn't the forum to air those gripes.

 

[chameleoneel]

that's a contradiction...if it was never expected then how could they have misrepresented anything?

ok man. I admit my specific wording may be a little contradicting, but I think my position on this whole situation is clear, at this point. So I'm not really appreciating having to decode every bit of what I say, but here it goes:

Dark Souls 2 was grossly misrepresented. From paraded a demo, bullshots, and trailer materials for months (right up to release), that was running on consoles, which looked notably better than the game that shipped on March 11th. The PC version was/has never been specifically shown. But, it was known back then that a PC version was being made. So it would have been assumed, at those earlier times, the PC version would look similar to the early demos, as well.

The game we got on March 11th, looks significantly different. Less good. Some really crappy misrepresentation and lying by omission was conducted by From Software/Namco-Bandai.


After March 11th, it became clear to me that the PC version would also not look like the early demos. There was no reason to expect that, anymore. There were some people that were holding onto blind faith. But I knew they were misguided or at least generously optimistic.

Dark Souls 2 is still a very good game. and in it's own merits, has aspects about it's visuals and art direction that are still very good, still praise worth. Had I been shown the game that shipped on March 11th, all along, I would have zero problem. And I imagine many others would also have little to no issue.

I had already posted on twitter, facebook, and youtube to Bamco, Playstation Access, IGN, and Angry Joe. and mainstream sites like Kotaku and [H] had started to run articles/front page posts on the issue. My work was essentially done as far as what I could possibly do to let From and Namco-Bandai know they really screwed this up.

But there was still some need here, to meter people's expectations for the yet to release/yet to be shown PC version. So after dumping all the info I had compiled into a couple of threads here, I started to try and get people to realize the upcoming PC game would likely not look like the early demos with the notably better graphical features. There has just been no reason at all to expect that, after March 11th. I even layed out a best case scenario and what I thought was most probable. It turns out the best case didn't even pan out.

But it still remains that Dark Souls 2 is a very good game. So my most recent post was mostly meant to remind people that since March 11th, there was no reason to think DkS2 would look like the early demos. The game itself is good. My implication users her is that should they be able to get passed the initial upset, upset that has mostly been carried this far, by users themselves (it's not their fault, however), there is still a game to be played.

...the visual upgrade you were 'led to expect' was created in the minds of certain parts of the fanbase...

Post March 11th, I would agree that some people have remained too optimistic for the PC version. I have been here, trying to impress some 'reality' onto these people.

if the PC version has higher res textures, lighting etc then it is a major upgrade

That's not a major upgrade. That's essentially the same game, with high res textures and higher internal rendering resolution. A PC port. Not an upgrade. Those things (textures/framerate/resoluton) are the only thing that has ever been said about the PC version. and certainly in the situation of Dark Souls 2's misrepresentation; should not be confused with the entirely different effects package that the early demos ran on. That's the 'upgrade' you are confusing, that some people were still holding out for.

........DS2 was never going to look like Crysis 3....early videos were not final code so things change like they do with most games...Dark Souls 1 wasn't anything amazing graphically even with dsfix but it looked really good (with low res textures in a lot of places)...but the gameplay was the absolute best and I'm expecting the same with DS2 with any additional graphics features as a bonus or cherry on top

Now I'm wondering if you have really even been following all of this very closely or what? I'm not apologizing for what From and Bamco have done with Dark Souls 2. Watch Dogs was recently put through the ringer for considerably less relative difference.

It is very true that many games change significantly throughout their development process. A. it is generally expected they actually look better, over their development life. Final graphics are often one of the last things that get worked out in a typical dev process B. even if things do go downhill, most games generally don't feed press and potential buyers a fake product during the entire development process. There's really only been a hand full of games that have ever done that. Grossly misrepresented their product right up to launch day. In hindsight we can say "early demos". But even at the beginning of March, we couldn't be sure. Because IGN was running "making of" videos where footage of how the game actually looks was flagged as 'not final gameplay'. But the 'early' stuff, edited right next to in in the 'making of' videos, was not. From and Bamco wanted us to believe we were getting that game, right up to the moment we put the disc into our PS360. and they often edited the footage, to really make it seem that way. I posted about this earlier, showing an example.

Around network beta time, they could have been more humble and announced that they experienced some set backs, had been too ambitious, and that the network beta and screenshots released after that time period were more representative of the final game.

Anyway I've already said all of this, many times...

early gameplay videos aren't meant to represent final build quality...they even put that disclaimer in a lot of early gameplay videos nowadays..

To my knowledge, the only time Dark Souls 2 footage has ever been blatantly, obviously flagged with on screen text, or even qualified by an interviewer----was late February/Early march, when IGN posted the 'making of' videos. I have seen one other screenshot of some very tiny text at the bottom of a screenshot, with disclaimer text for Dark Souls 2. I am unsure what it was from. It looked like possibly an advertisement. I have been unable to find the original image. (the image I saw was cropped. I'm not even 100% sure it was from Dark Souls 2 material). If you go back and look at all of the interviews, preview videos, advertisements, gameshow demos, and direct capture gameplay videos on youtube----the general narrative is "This is Dark Souls 2". Which has turned out to be completely not true.


Anyway, I'm finished stressing about this. I have done everything I can to make From and Bamco 'feel' this. and I have done everything I can to get potential customers to understand what has happened and how they have been treated as fans and/or potential buyers. As far as I'm concerned, the recent additional changes to the steam page are confirmation of what the PC game will look like. Which was the last expected piece of the puzzle.

However, if they announce a 'next gen' version in a few months, utilizing the early effects package, I will be pooping on their FB and Twitter pages, yet again, as they spent months saying "no plans for next gen" "we are excited to focus on current gen". and then in late february they say "we had next-gen in mind all along".