Dark Matter Blob Confounds Experts

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htpc_user

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I can't believe so many people scoffing at the notion of a God. I've never been a very religious person; I was never taken to church as a child except to Bible School for a week each summer, and I've only been a handful of times as an adult. I've never really read the Bible although I did have to take a Religion class in college. I can believe that a God created the universe quicker than a big bang explosion created it. Someone here said,

"Ahh, so the universe can't "just happen", it had to be created. What if we apply the same logic to your God. Who created Him?"

To me, a God can "create himself" or perhaps "just exists". But I don't think no matter how you spin it, a universe cannot just appear from nothing. If it all started from a speck of dust then something had to create that speck.
 

fattypants

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To me, a God can "create himself" or perhaps "just exists". But I don't think no matter how you spin it, a universe cannot just appear from nothing. If it all started from a speck of dust then something had to create that speck.
"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?" -Carl Sagan
Basically, if you're going to ask unanswerable questions, why throw in an unnecessary layer of complexity? You would only provide an answer which is meaningless because it leads back to the same question.
 

DejaWiz

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Why not? Who says there has to be a need? Maybe there is a need? I guess my point is that it's possible that it's an irrelevant question or a question that can't be answered (which seems to be a common thread from both camps here).

If there is no need, then fine. No further explanation needed.


If there is a need, then why? Explanation needed.

I've heard from many religious folks over the years that fossils and dinosaur bones and physical evidence of lesser evolved humans is gods way of testing us in regards to faith.

Here's my issue with this:
If god created us in his *perfect* image, then god purposely instilled the capabilities within each of us for free will, rational thought, and meaningful deduction through sensory input of our observable, physical environment that god created for us.

This means all that we have learned over time in regards to postulate logical theories and recreatable tests such as carbon dating, DNA decoding and comparing, cloning, evolution, big bang, etc, as well as the abilities for space observation, space flight, deep ocean diving and observation, archeological strip mining, etc, are all god-given talents. Alas, all of the things we've accomplished which weren't even a thought let alone a possibility some 2100 or so years ago with the formation of the biblical faiths.

God allows us to make the choices we make because god saw fit to infallibly create humans with the capability to do so, emphasis on the choice to believe he does or does not exist, therefore can not condemn any one of us to damnation, because it is by gods own unwavering will that god created each of us just the way god wanted us to be.

I don't believe in god, and I'm happy to know for certain I'm not going to the hell I don't believe in after I die for it, because that is how god created me and what god wants for me. Because that is gods omnipotence at work...afterall, I'm one of gods perfect creations in gods own perfect image. Therefore, I fear not what god thinks of me, simply because god made me to not believe in a god or gods.

Sheesh, I hope that made any semblance of sense.
 

Mpowers

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Seriously, another 10 minutes clicking through that forum and my hope for humanity shrank a tiny 'lil bit.
 

Fendrix

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This is an epic thread. I can't tell who is trolling who.

A must read.

Seriously, another 10 minutes clicking through that forum and my hope for humanity shrank a tiny 'lil bit.

Landover Baptist Church is a trolling website/forum. A 5 second Google search pulled up their Wiki:
Wikipedia said:
The Landover Baptist web site and its associated Landoverbaptist.net Forum are a satire of fundamentalist Christianity and the Religious Right in the United States.
 

Mpowers

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Landover Baptist Church is a trolling website/forum. A 5 second Google search pulled up their Wiki:

Thanks for that. I was getting it mixed up with the Westboro Baptist folks. Some intense dedication to staying in character in that case! And the seem to know their Scripture very well.
 

Sly

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Hey, thanks btw, I have always wanted to look up easter but managed to forget about it. Went to christiananswers.net (you would think this might be biased?) But it had a better write up than wiki did! Very cool information.

The thing about living in a country full of bible thumpers is that there are dozens of Catholic groups (born-agains is just one of them). Each with their own interpretation of the bible. Go to one church belonging to one group, they explain it their way. Go to another church and they explain it in a completely different way. There are so many conflicting answers and different interpretations of a passage, that the only way to get them is to look it up yourself.

You need a priest to explain the bible for you, because if you read it yourself none of it makes sense. The Priest will choose the proper passages you should read so you don't have to go over all that... 'other'... stuff. Like, the price of a human life = 30 silver coins + an ox. Anybody know how much that is in dollars?
 

Conker

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lol you guys that think evolution is whole picture are being fooled. You don't even need argue for god or any religion to figure out your being misled by the mainstream science. Look up living fossils. Stuff that was supposively in transition were actually the same as they are now. Things have always been. There's no real evidence of any transitions anywhere. There no half morphed creature anywhere to be found. All this "Macro" evolution is a fraud. I know people will say, "Oh what about small changes which is micro evolution which add up to macro evolution?" Theres no transitions at all. We are still looking for the bones.
All we have is a lucy and a bunch of hoax'd together bones from bunch of animals and apes. What about the millions of other creatures in the world. What about all the plants and the rest. A dog has always been a dog. A cat has always been a cat no matter how many changes were made. Macro or the morphing of creatures from one species to another has never occurred. There's no evidence. So far the evidence just shows that we are trusting and believing in these scientists. Its turning into a religion in itself. We are getting into religious territory now. The belief we morphed from some ape and maybe we'll find some fossils. They've been looking for fossils ever since origin of species came out from Darwin over 100 years ago. So far we only have an ape out of all these millions of creatures out in the world today. There would be billions of transition fossils found already. All the vestigial organs are now being recognized as working organs so that theory was false. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the macro/morphing part of the evolution theory was falsified. The more facts that come up in modern times, the more we realize that evolution is slowly crumbling.

Don't be like some friends i know, "I trust in scientists to believe for me and think for me." That bull crap never got anyone anywhere. Think for yourself. You got a brain, use it. Just my opinion mostly.
 

fattypants

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lol you guys that think evolution is whole picture are being fooled. You don't even need argue for god or any religion to figure out your being misled by the mainstream science. Look up living fossils. Stuff that was supposively in transition were actually the same as they are now. Things have always been. There's no real evidence of any transitions anywhere. There no half morphed creature anywhere to be found. All this "Macro" evolution is a fraud. I know people will say, "Oh what about small changes which is micro evolution which add up to macro evolution?" Theres no transitions at all. We are still looking for the bones.
All we have is a lucy and a bunch of hoax'd together bones from bunch of animals and apes. What about the millions of other creatures in the world. What about all the plants and the rest. A dog has always been a dog. A cat has always been a cat no matter how many changes were made. Macro or the morphing of creatures from one species to another has never occurred. There's no evidence. So far the evidence just shows that we are trusting and believing in these scientists. Its turning into a religion in itself. We are getting into religious territory now. The belief we morphed from some ape and maybe we'll find some fossils. They've been looking for fossils ever since origin of species came out from Darwin over 100 years ago. So far we only have an ape out of all these millions of creatures out in the world today. There would be billions of transition fossils found already. All the vestigial organs are now being recognized as working organs so that theory was false. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the macro/morphing part of the evolution theory was falsified. The more facts that come up in modern times, the more we realize that evolution is slowly crumbling.

Don't be like some friends i know, "I trust in scientists to believe for me and think for me." That bull crap never got anyone anywhere. Think for yourself. You got a brain, use it. Just my opinion mostly.
Looks like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works. Wasted all that typing!
 

Conker

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Looks like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works. Wasted all that typing!

I know it inside out at a biological level. At a certain point a cell can't function without so many genes. You go ask anyone that knows a lot of the complexity of the human cell and the human body. The complexity of life in itself is a testament against evolution. Trillions of cells working together in unison. The more you think, the more you understand that this wasn't an accident at all. Theres too much design to really say it was all so random. Theres so much symmetry in the world. Go look at the Golden Ratio. Everything beautiful surrounds that number.

1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286213544862270526046281890
244970720720418939113748475408807538689175212663386222353693179318006076672635

Everything wasn't random at all. The more you know, the more you know realize all this random crap was all a lie. DNA code itself is against evolution. You can't cut corners when it comes to the DNA. Any big changes to any cell would cause cell death. Any weird anomalies would cause problems, it wouldn't cause advances.
 

Fendrix

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I'd like to recommend a book for you and everyone in this thread that doesn't understand Evolution and the science surrounding it:

whytr.jpg

Amazon Link
 

thedocta45

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Okay lets all get on the same page here.

The Bible is a collection of stories.

These stories fall under a few broad catagories:

1. Explain things we don't understand.
2. Explain why life sucks so bad.
3. Explain how we should act.

The reason The Bible is "falling out of favor" is because these stories no longer apply.

1. We now can explain many things.
2. Life doesn't suck that bad. ie we are not on a daily basis dieing from horrible epidemics/wars.
3. We now have governments that are able to enforce laws.

If people want to keep following a book that is no longer relivent thats their own problem.

Do a little research into who really wrote the parts of The Bible and you will be shocked.

Also picking and choosing what parts to "belive" is so ignorant.

Evilution happened deal with it.
 

Conker

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I'd like to recommend a book for you and everyone in this thread that doesn't understand Evolution and the science surrounding it:

whytr.jpg

Amazon Link


lol you guys don't understand anything. I have 7 associate degrees and 6 certifications and a bachelors of science in computers. You guys don't understand anything when it comes to critical thinking. I was in geology, anthropology, chemistry, biology, and all the them. I know how evolution works. You guys just can't accept the doubt there is within this belief. I don't care if there's nothing science can fill it with. I rather it be nothing than for it to be a lie like "macro" evolution. I stand by what i say. So far animal species have only decreased. There were more animals in the past that have now become extinct. We started with a lot and now ended up with less now not due to evolution though. You can see fossils of 500 million year old crabs the same as now. The fossils evolution supporters don't want you to see. The fossil record is against evolution of anything. I've debated many times. It can go on forever. Endless battle. Just leaving it at that. I don't care about any foundations of your beliefs if you want it to be apes. If you can't accept it being false then that's your problem.
 

Fendrix

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lol you guys don't understand anything. I have 7 associate degrees and 6 certifications and a bachelors of science in computers. You guys don't understand anything when it comes to critical thinking. I was in geology, anthropology, chemistry, biology, and all the them. I know how evolution works. You guys just can't accept the doubt there is within this belief. I don't care if there's nothing science can fill it with. I rather it be nothing than for it to be a lie like "macro" evolution. I stand by what i say. So far animal species have only decreased. There were more animals in the past that have now become extinct. We started with a lot and now ended up with less now not due to evolution though. You can see fossils of 500 million year old crabs the same as now. The fossils evolution supporters don't want you to see. The fossil record is against evolution of anything. I've debated many times. It can go on forever. Endless battle. Just leaving it at that. I don't care about any foundations of your beliefs if you want it to be apes. If you can't accept it being false then that's your problem.

nevermindpgp.jpg
 

thedocta45

[H]ard|Gawd
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I don't care about any foundations of your beliefs if you want it to be apes. If you can't accept it being false then that's your problem.

Read a book we are not decendants of apes we share a common ancestor.
 

fattypants

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lol you guys don't understand anything. I have 7 associate degrees and 6 certifications and a bachelors of science in computers. You guys don't understand anything when it comes to critical thinking. I was in geology, anthropology, chemistry, biology, and all the them. I know how evolution works. You guys just can't accept the doubt there is within this belief. I don't care if there's nothing science can fill it with. I rather it be nothing than for it to be a lie like "macro" evolution. I stand by what i say. So far animal species have only decreased. There were more animals in the past that have now become extinct. We started with a lot and now ended up with less now not due to evolution though. You can see fossils of 500 million year old crabs the same as now. The fossils evolution supporters don't want you to see. The fossil record is against evolution of anything. I've debated many times. It can go on forever. Endless battle. Just leaving it at that. I don't care about any foundations of your beliefs if you want it to be apes. If you can't accept it being false then that's your problem.
Comedy gold. Saving this for future trolling on other forums. This must be some original content. Bravo, sir! I like the way you work.
 

Aluisious

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To me, a God can "create himself" or perhaps "just exists". But I don't think no matter how you spin it, a universe cannot just appear from nothing. If it all started from a speck of dust then something had to create that speck.

For the life of me I cannot empathize with anyone who thinks there's a difference between a self causing God and a self causing universe.

A self causing god is necessarily an inferior explanation because it's the same problem, removed one step, with an entity that cannot be observed. We damn well know the universe is here, there's no debating that.
 

Aluisious

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I have 7 associate degrees and 6 certifications and a bachelors of science in computers.

The funny part is you think that makes you more credible, when everyone else just realizes you're nuts. I'm surprised the community college hasn't put up a poster advising campus security to throw you out on sight yet.
 

Tudz

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"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?" -Carl Sagan
Basically, if you're going to ask unanswerable questions, why throw in an unnecessary layer of complexity? You would only provide an answer which is meaningless because it leads back to the same question.

Why throw an unnecessary layer of complication? Because its not science, its a belief system. You don't throw it on because you want to explain it rationally, you throw it on because you hold a belief system which requires it.

The "who created God" argument is far more pointless than "how did the universe come into being", because it lies outside our realm of possible understanding. We live in this world with certain physical limitations and phenomenon, of which we still do understand. If God resides in a realm beyond this with power to create this physical world, it must mean He is beyond our concepts of physics and time so "who created Him" is not the same question at all.
 

Lith1um

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How do you make an entity without there being matter in the first place? It makes more sense to me that the universe was intitially full of matter, with no life forms of ANY description.
 

fattypants

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We live in this world with certain physical limitations and phenomenon, of which we still do understand. If God resides in a realm beyond this with power to create this physical world, it must mean He is beyond our concepts of physics and time so "who created Him" is not the same question at all.
Since God is so far out of our league, there is no point in discussing God at all; it can't be proved or disproved. Let's stick to things we can know; agreed?
vkHeN.jpg
 

Tudz

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That cartoon for "religious logic" describes people on both sides of the fence in this thread.

I'd love to have a scientific discussion on the topic, but that's not possible because people just attack each other rather than actually discussing it scientifically. At best someone will bring up an argument, someone will bring up a rebuttal and then they are slammed for being ignorant.
 
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lol you guys don't understand anything. I have 7 associate degrees and 6 certifications and a bachelors of science in computers. You guys don't understand anything when it comes to critical thinking. I was in geology, anthropology, chemistry, biology, and all the them. I know how evolution works. You guys just can't accept the doubt there is within this belief. I don't care if there's nothing science can fill it with. I rather it be nothing than for it to be a lie like "macro" evolution. I stand by what i say. So far animal species have only decreased. There were more animals in the past that have now become extinct. We started with a lot and now ended up with less now not due to evolution though. You can see fossils of 500 million year old crabs the same as now. The fossils evolution supporters don't want you to see. The fossil record is against evolution of anything. I've debated many times. It can go on forever. Endless battle. Just leaving it at that. I don't care about any foundations of your beliefs if you want it to be apes. If you can't accept it being false then that's your problem.

heh
 

Vader

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I give credit to the people here who stand by their beliefs by Faith alone. It's very rare these days.

There is one glaring fact that no one, and I mean no one can prove scientifically and that is how the universe was created. In essense, the pro-Big Bang Theory people are basing their belief on faith, no? There isn't any factual evidence to prove otherwise, just like there isn't any factual evidence for Creationism, it's belief is based on faith as well. I find it funny that the relationship between the two is so far apart, yet so close in the way people put faith on both ideas yet the pro-big bangers can't believe that the religous put faith in something, the same way they do their theories.

And BTW, if you take the Book of Revelation literal, then you really don't know the bible at all.
 

distortion69

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I dunno, all the points you've made so far can come up with convincing arguments from both sides with a simple google search, so I wouldn't say the evidence is plain to see. I've just read an article where creationists use general relativity to explain an expanding young universe, and nothing on the list you posted earlier shows conclusive evidence of no God. Perhaps you can point me in the direction of the conclusive information showing there is no God which doesn't have an intelligently constructed counter argument from the creationist/biblical side?

Personally, deep down, I don't WANT to believe either. Creation and God seems to lead to an almost sadistic creator, evolution leads to "well what the fuck matters?", you could walk down the street and gun down 50 people and there would be no real consequence, if anything you're helping the species by reducing over population. And any compassion or love felt to my fellow man is a remnant of when our species had to work together to survive. Either way, it sounds pretty grim to me :p

I understand your concerns. I fail to see how what they lead to is too too important though. The most important thing to me is... is it true, or not? If it is not true (God), or we have no reason to believe that it is true, then we must deal with those feelings of what matters.

A large population of the world is atheist now, and you don't see them gunning people down because they are atheist. This is because people recognize we STILL have to work together, we still have family, and loved ones... and we still ultimately have to get along. It behooves you as a human NOT to run around killing people, or you will likely be punished or killed. If you concede that it's likely that there is no God, then you concede that as humans we've found ways to deal with this problem for years already. In the past it has been making up fake boogie men to scare people, maybe there is a better way than that.
 
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I give credit to the people here who stand by their beliefs by Faith alone. It's very rare these days.

There is one glaring fact that no one, and I mean no one can prove scientifically and that is how the universe was created. In essense, the pro-Big Bang Theory people are basing their belief on faith, no? There isn't any factual evidence to prove otherwise, just like there isn't any factual evidence for Creationism, it's belief is based on faith as well. I find it funny that the relationship between the two is so far apart, yet so close in the way people put faith on both ideas yet the pro-big bangers can't believe that the religous put faith in something, the same way they do their theories.

And BTW, if you take the Book of Revelation literal, then you really don't know the bible at all.

You have a deep, fundamental misunderstanding of the "big bang theory" and inflationary cosmology. Whether the conditions that lead to the big bang were set up by a god or happened by some other means is not a question the theory can, or has ever attempted to answer. The theory doesn't offer an explanation of cause, only how it proceeded once it was underway. There's no faith involved in understanding the theory or the processes involved. There is a mountain of factual evidence and bodies of work to support it. It's not a closed case yet, but the physics involved are well understood and it would take an earth shaking revelation of the kind never before seen in ALL of science to upend this body of work.

I think your viewpoint comes from this incessant insistence by religious people to label science as faith. It's dishonest and plainly wrong. It also comes across as ignorant because you've argued against a point that science never tried to make.
 

distortion69

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I can't believe so many people scoffing at the notion of a God. I've never been a very religious person; I was never taken to church as a child except to Bible School for a week each summer, and I've only been a handful of times as an adult. I've never really read the Bible although I did have to take a Religion class in college. I can believe that a God created the universe quicker than a big bang explosion created it. Someone here said,

"Ahh, so the universe can't "just happen", it had to be created. What if we apply the same logic to your God. Who created Him?"

To me, a God can "create himself" or perhaps "just exists". But I don't think no matter how you spin it, a universe cannot just appear from nothing. If it all started from a speck of dust then something had to create that speck.

But who created the person that created that speck?

It is not about what is easier to believe for you, it is about what is true. Even if you DID get to the fact it was created, there is no way to discern what created it, if it was even a "being". It is just as likely to me that it was a form of astronomical evolution. One thing for certain, is there is definitely no direct path to any religious text... the only way to come to those conclusions defy logic. Otherwise, belief wouldn't be called faith.
 

Vader

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You have a deep, fundamental misunderstanding of the "big bang theory" and inflationary cosmology. Whether the conditions that lead to the big bang were set up by a god or happened by some other means is not a question the theory can, or has ever attempted to answer. The theory doesn't offer an explanation of cause, only how it proceeded once it was underway. There's no faith involved in understanding the theory or the processes involved. There is a mountain of factual evidence and bodies of work to support it. It's not a closed case yet, but the physics involved are well understood and it would take an earth shaking revelation of the kind never before seen in ALL of science to upend this body of work.

I think your viewpoint comes from this incessant insistence by religious people to label science as faith. It's dishonest and plainly wrong. It also comes across as ignorant because you've argued against a point that science never tried to make.

Answer this question, is the Big Bang Theory a fact or not? It's not. The bottom line is this, you are putting "Faith" into a thoretical conclusion based on a set of facts that still have not proven it true. And that, my friend, is the only fact pertaining the "big bang theory.

It's an unjustice and typical of the scientific community to say things like they are facts when they are not. Instead of saying, "we believe based on yada yada yada" we hear, "this is how the universe was created yada yada yada" when the fact is, it's hasn't been proven. By doing so, you ARE putting Faith in your belief that the underlying culmination of facts tell the complete story and that is the only thing dihonest here.

The "theory" is flawed by one simple fact, it can't explain the absolute begining meaning, if "something" started the process, then where did that "something" come from?
 

Sly

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Answer this question, is the Big Bang Theory a fact or not? It's not. The bottom line is this, you are putting "Faith" into a thoretical conclusion based on a set of facts that still have not proven it true. And that, my friend, is the only fact pertaining the "big bang theory.

It's an unjustice and typical of the scientific community to say things like they are facts when they are not. Instead of saying, "we believe based on yada yada yada" we hear, "this is how the universe was created yada yada yada" when the fact is, it's hasn't been proven. By doing so, you ARE putting Faith in your belief that the underlying culmination of facts tell the complete story and that is the only thing dihonest here.

The "theory" is flawed by one simple fact, it can't explain the absolute begining meaning, if "something" started the process, then where did that "something" come from?

Big bang theory is based on observation of what we currently understand from the laws of physics. Scientists have observed that everything in the universe is moving away from each other from a single point. The amount of energy expended from that, coupled with how we understand the interchangeability between matter and energy is what made the big bang theory. At no point did someone just come up with it out of nowhere without a logical argument. The big bang itself can't be proven, but the individual components that constitute the theory are things that we observe and prove every day.

Compare that to creationism where *poof* everything is just as is with no rhyme or reason. With absolutely no basis. All you have is a book that's been heavily edited, chapters picked and chosen according to popular opinion at the time.




There was nothing in the beginning but seemingly almost endless chasm called the Ginnungagap. Ginnungagap was a void like the Greek Chaos. Ginnungagap was bordered by Niflheim, which is the place of darkness and ice, far to the north; and Muspelheim, a place of fire, far to the south. Out of this chaos the first being came into existence from the drop of water when ice from Niflheim and fire from Muspelheim met.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

In the begining there was only chaos. Then out of the void appeared Erebus, the unknowable place where death dwells, and Night. All else was empty, silent, endless, darkness. Then somehow Love was born bringing a start of order. From Love came Light and Day. Once there was Light and Day, Gaea, the earth appeared.

In the beginning of the world, there was nothing but darkness. On great god named Ometeotl watched over this darkness in complete solitude. However, one day, Ometeotl gave birth to four other gods. These gods created the world, filling it with giants. The god named Tezcatlipoca the Jaguar made himself into the sun. He ruled the world. But then, the god Quetzalcoatl knocked Tezcatlipoca into the ocean with a club. Quetzalcoatl turned himself into the sun. He appointed himself ruler of the world and created people with which to populate the earth. Tezcatlipoca returned and knocked Quetzalcoatl out of the sky. A great wind tore across the world, destroying everything except for a few people, who were turned into monkey. Next, the god Tlaloc became the sun. He repopulated the earth with another group of people. However, in an attempt to regain his throne, Quetzalcoatl sent a rain of fire down upon the earth, killing all of Tlaloc’s people except the few that became birds. Then, the goddess Chalchiuhtlicue became the sun. However, during this war between the gods Tezcatlipoca caused great floods to cover the earth. All of the people drowned except for those who turned into fish. Due to Tezcatlipoca’s actions, the entire earth was covered with water, with no land in sight. Finally, Tezcatlopoca and Quetzalcoatl stopped their quarrel and lifted the waters off of the earth. Then, Quetzalcoatl went to the land of the dead where the bones of the people lay. He tricked the god of the underworld, Mictlantechutli, into letting him take back the bones of the people back into the world. Quetzalcoatl then dripped his own blood onto the bones. The bones transformed into living, breathing people, the Aztecs.

Which one do you believe in? The Norse? Catholics? Greek? Aztec? With nothing but faith, how can you show that the other stories are any less real than yours?
 

wtiger

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
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1,600
I can't believe so many people scoffing at the notion of a God. I've never been a very religious person; I was never taken to church as a child except to Bible School for a week each summer, and I've only been a handful of times as an adult. I've never really read the Bible although I did have to take a Religion class in college. I can believe that a God created the universe quicker than a big bang explosion created it. Someone here said,

"Ahh, so the universe can't "just happen", it had to be created. What if we apply the same logic to your God. Who created Him?"

To me, a God can "create himself" or perhaps "just exists". But I don't think no matter how you spin it, a universe cannot just appear from nothing. If it all started from a speck of dust then something had to create that speck.

Perhaps that's the problem. You haven't been immersed in it over a long period of time. I was constantly exposed to religion from a very early age until college. Nothing creates atheists like constant exposure to religion and seeing how truly idiotic it is. The majority of people I know who went through the same private schooling are also atheists.
 

doz

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
6,106
Ill sum this up real quick.... God is santa claus for adults... 'nuff said!
 
Joined
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Answer this question, is the Big Bang Theory a fact or not? It's not. The bottom line is this, you are putting "Faith" into a thoretical conclusion based on a set of facts that still have not proven it true. And that, my friend, is the only fact pertaining the "big bang theory.
The Big Bang theory is a body of work comprised of hundreds of falsifiable theories, each of which have been thoroughly tested and that have stood up to rigorous investigation. To say the Big Bang theory is a fact is about as accurate as saying the theory of gravity is a fact. We fundamentally still don't completely understand how gravity works at the quantum level or how it translates to the force we feel everyday, yet we know it does work and are continuing to get closer to an answer. Similarly, we're still researching the intricacies of the masses, velocities and temperatures of matter in the femtoseconds after the Big Bang occurred and we're continuing to get closer to a more complete picture.

Let me stress this though; The immediate, absolute, most primal point of time in existence (or anything prior to that) is out of bounds for scientific research. None of the physical forces, or time, or matter, or mass and energy as we experience them existed before this period. We must rely on our knowledge and the existence of these things to take measurements and test predictions, so by definition we can not know what came before them.

It's an unjustice and typical of the scientific community to say things like they are facts when they are not. Instead of saying, "we believe based on yada yada yada" we hear, "this is how the universe was created yada yada yada" when the fact is, it's hasn't been proven. By doing so, you ARE putting Faith in your belief that the underlying culmination of facts tell the complete story and that is the only thing dihonest here.
Again, the Big Bang theory is not about how or why the universe was created. It's about what happened in it immediately after it came into existence. Please try to understand that.

The "theory" is flawed by one simple fact, it can't explain the absolute begining meaning, if "something" started the process, then where did that "something" come from?

You're still misunderstanding so let me say this in the most straightforward way I can: The Big Bang Theory says nothing about the origin of our universe, period. You're faulting the theory for not answering a question it is not intended to answer.
 

wabbitseason

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
1,511
"According to our current theory... This pretty much sums up most of what these eggheads know. When confronted with evidence that is contrary to their "current theories", they act surprised, and "Oh how can this be?". Just like the "Theory of Evolution" has become fact to these morons. The probability that the universe "just happened" is so enormous, that it is actually impossible for it to have spontaneously appeared. The laws of probabilty don't lie, but lets not let the facts get in the way of our theories. I am now putting on my flame suit, so fire away.

Hahahahahah. Go die in a fire and let humanity proceed in our march to the stars.
 

michael.pa2

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
2,998
Ill sum this up real quick.... God is santa claus for adults... 'nuff said!

Hey,don't insult Santa! :mad: When's the last time you heard of him flooding the entire world,leveling a city,or unleashing plagues? If you're naughty the most you get from him is coal in your stocking,not a trip to Hell.
 

D4rkn3ss

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
2,619
Fucking vampires are terrifying, aren't they.

it was actually kind of cool seeing Kate Beckinsale dual wield those modified full auto 92's in the first Underworld ^^

In the beginning of the world, there was nothing but darkness. On great god named Ometeotl watched over this darkness in complete solitude. However, one day...

bug off Ometeotl!!
 

chockomonkey

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
8,298
Big bang theory is based on observation of what we currently understand from the laws of physics. Scientists have observed that everything in the universe is moving away from each other from a single point. The amount of energy expended from that, coupled with how we understand the interchangeability between matter and energy is what made the big bang theory. At no point did someone just come up with it out of nowhere without a logical argument. The big bang itself can't be proven, but the individual components that constitute the theory are things that we observe and prove every day.

Yep, and no one has said otherwise. This is how science works. And those who toot the horn of the big bang theory DO INDEED have faith that that's what happened. For this reason i don't understand why people have such issues with faith.

Compare that to creationism where *poof* everything is just as is with no rhyme or reason. With absolutely no basis. All you have is a book that's been heavily edited, chapters picked and chosen according to popular opinion at the time.

I don't know any religious person who believes this. However, for whatever reason people who do not have religious beliefs often project this onto those with religious beliefs.

Which one do you believe in? The Norse? Catholics? Greek? Aztec? With nothing but faith, how can you show that the other stories are any less real than yours?

Wouldn't it make more sense, certainly due to the vast similarities between the religions on earth (and the fact that they were all written by human beings), that they are all the same one religion simply interpreted differently (and thus written differently) by different humans?
 
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