Dark Matter Blob Confounds Experts

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Sly

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Ahh, so the universe can't "just happen", it had to be created. What if we apply the same logic to your God. Who created Him?
Oh, He's simply been here since the beginning of time?
So has the universe. Before the big bang, time (and other aspects of physics) as we perceive it (them) didn't exist.

Trying to reason with a religious nut is an exercise in futility. However, put two religions in the same room and they will cancel each other out. Just bring up the Egyptian and/or the Greek gods and sic those guys at Yahweh. And then just stand back while the 'nonexistent' fireworks fly.

Both sides have no physical proof of each others gods, and perfectly willing to go to great lengths rationalizing their own existence through metaphors. Makes me wonder why nobody's every tried it. It's always Science vs Christianity, but i'd like to see a debate between the different religions.
 

D4rkn3ss

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Wait, what proof would you have exactly? It says in the bible that you're not supposed to be able to find any proof of god (as that wouldn't require faith and would be too easy on all you mortals). So what would you be "proving" to them exactly? :p

aww c'mon DeathPrincess, i known you're a fucking harcore but "gee whiz nifty really" how about some common sense? cut these people some slack because i really doubt that you of all people really believe that a magic "hohoho santa" came out of the fucking nowhere with some "magic knowledge" and created it all and that explains everything you motherfucker ^^
 

Volume

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(H ψ → (ψ • G ψ))

(T1) ~ (H ψ → (ψ • G ψ)) (n) NTF

(T2) H ψ (n) 1, PC

(T3) ~ (ψ • G ψ) (n) 1, PC

(T4) ~ψ (n) 3, PC

(T4)' ~G ψ (n) 3, PC

(T5) F~ ψ (n) 3, MN

(T6) nBk 5, FR

(T7) ~ψ (k) 5,6, FR

(T8) kBn 2, HR

(T9) ψ (k) 2,7, HR

Apparently...
Witchcraft!!!!
:p
 

GoldenTiger

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I think among atheists here, people don't care about what other people worship, until it gets in the way of science. Science has no Priests or Gods. Science tries to make things finite, religion is far less forgiving.

An Atheist sees something like Star Wars as fantasy. A religious person reads the Bible, and thinks it's fact. Yet, they're both a work of fiction.

THIS! Perfect post.
 

distortion69

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"According to our current theory... This pretty much sums up most of what these eggheads know. When confronted with evidence that is contrary to their "current theories", they act surprised, and "Oh how can this be?". Just like the "Theory of Evolution" has become fact to these morons. The probability that the universe "just happened" is so enormous, that it is actually impossible for it to have spontaneously appeared. The laws of probabilty don't lie, but lets not let the facts get in the way of our theories. I am now putting on my flame suit, so fire away.

Your post shows ignorance on so many levels.

1) Calculations from deep space, compared to the MASSIVE amount of evidence for evolution.. two different situations
2) Electricity is a theory, using the word theory to try to discredit evolution is ignorant
3) When the calculations are wrong, they act surprised, they come up with new ideas, and find out why it was wrong. They then adjust their reasoning based on the evidence.
4) No scientist claims absolute knowledge, so there was always room for improvement on theories.

Here is what I think is moronic. They can't explain something millions of miles away, and they will be able to one day likely using the evidence. So knowing that, now let's question evolution. That's a logical deduction right? Let's just throw out medical science too, it was formulated using similar evidence. In fact, biology is the foundation of both.
 

distortion69

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Since when is stating my own beliefs trolling? Have I attacked anyone here? Are you people so insecure in your beliefs that you attack anyone who challenges them? I don't take offense at anything being said about me here,but I do detect a lot of hostility towards me.

It's because your beliefs are so far from reality, it is almost appalling that anyone could believe them... so our assumption is you are trolling.
 

distortion69

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Quite true. Science is based on man being the supreme being in the universe. I would suggest that YOUR fanatical fervor far exceeds mine!

WTH are you talking about... science is the goal of understanding the universe. If anything it directly shows that man is NOT the supreme being of the universe. The funniest part, is your faith believes the GOD exists outside of the universe, and isn't provable.. and created man as the supreme being of the universe. It is an awfully selfish view.
 

distortion69

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"you people"?? I beg your pardon?? did I say I am in the creationism train?

*you people* (evolutionists) can't stand to see somebody daring think different because immediately you have to make an hysterical scene, hey, I'm sorry you people are so insecure of yourselves that you can't stand religion.

The fun thing, he believes in his god and that is not enough for him, you suffer of the very same thing, your object of faith is science and your preachers are scientists, it's obvious your science/religion is not enough for you either, otherwise you would not go on this crusade to try and convert people into your own line of thought.

Anthropocentrism is just pathetic, it's the race's common expression of every person innermost desires, we all believe ourselves to be the center of the universe.

Science is the opposite of faith. It is a formulation of an idea based on the evidence. Evidence does not equal faith. There is no belief in science, only a rigorous system of hypothesis, testing, and evidence called the scientific method. Hypothesis are tested against the evidence, and taken to be truth if the evidence confirms... if some evidence comes along that says otherwise... the hypothesis is then not valid. Sometimes complicated issues may at first seem true under a limited understanding, but later be corrected.

There is a reason science is actually bettering mankind through scientific development in dozens of fields. I find it interesting that you likely trust science to make decisions in every part of your life except this one.
 

distortion69

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Let me clear something up. In my original post, all I'm trying to say is, as smart as these guys are, and yes they are very intelligent, they don't really know whats going on out there in the universe, but they try and make us believe that they do. If the facts don't fit their current theory, they change the theory, and you know this is true. It's truly amazing how when they present a theory, all of a sudden IT'S FACT, but if the facts end up being contrary to the theory, it's no longer fact, and the new theory becomes the new truth. I find this to be the height of conceit and terribly narcissistic. I don't have any hard feelings towards any of you who may be making fun of me and my beliefs, I am just amazed at how many people in a country that was founded on Judeo/Christian principles get angry when someone mentions God or Jesus. Next time you get the chance, read some of what the founding fathers believed. They all believed in the God of the Bible, and prayed about the correct way to go in establishing this nation. I guess they were religious fanatics too.

We have no hard feelings, it's just that people are easily offended when talking religion. I talk trash about all subjects, and folks aren't nearly as offended as when it pertains to religion. I have to say though, what you described is part of learning.What would you suggest they do, continue to believe things that they know can't be true? That is exactly the reason why faith based positions are so ludicrous.

The earth is flat...
*calculates the earth is round*
*takes pictures that the earth is round*
*flies into space, sees in person it's round*

Should we A) Still continue to believe the earth is flat, or B) change our understanding based on the new evidence.
 

CacaSapo

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This thread brought to you by "Fucking magnets, how do they work?"

PS: And I don't want to talk to a scientist, yall mothafuckers lyin', and getting me pissed!
 
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There has never been any prove that evolution exists every new fossil which should be the missing link because they have no other fossil that old is later proven wrong by a new fossil predating it, If we naturally evolved from one form to another form then why are the older forms coexisting over and over in our history?
Yes neanderthals exhisted with modern man, as well as others because my God loves diversity even to this day. If you were able to make living matter anyway you wanted wouldn't you make diversity? even today there are Caucations , African- americans, asians, and many more than I can name all different but made by God.

As far as God making the Sun on the 4th day there wasn't anyone here to see the light until later, so why do you have a problem whith when he did it?
 
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If we naturally evolved from one form to another form then why are the older forms coexisting over and over in our history?
Come back when you have at least a rough idea of how evolution works...

As far as God making the Sun on the 4th day there wasn't anyone here to see the light until later, so why do you have a problem whith when he did it?
How do you define a day without a sun?
 

spintroniX

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There has never been any prove that evolution exists every new fossil.....

As far as God making the Sun on the 4th day there wasn't anyone here to see the light until later, so why do you have a problem whith when he did it?

1) If you understood how fossils are formed, it would be no surprise there aren't many fossils. However, there are in fact PLENTY of intermediary fossils - the problem is that when we are looking for a species between A and C, and then find B - the whackjobs (like you) ask "what's between A and B?"

Besides that, genome sequencing provides the smoking gun proof of evolution. If you had bothered to learn anything in your life that possibly contradicts your world view, you would know this. But hey, if you don't believe in the theory of genetics, when your wife has a baby with the neighbor I'm sure you can consult the bible to figure out whose kid it is.

2) Had you also read the bible, you would know that your god created the oceans and the plants before the sun. For those of us who don't live in fantasy land, this is a major plot hole.
 

dadman

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Someone care to explain the exact process on how life actually started? Did a bolt of lightning strike the earth and create some DNA or something? And if it did, how did it survive or multiply? Can I take some DNA today, place it in a Petri dish under the most ideal conditions, and have it survive and reproduce itself? No. Thats why evolution makes no sense, it's based on assumptions only.
 

DeathPrincess

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aww c'mon DeathPrincess, i known you're a fucking harcore but "gee whiz nifty really" how about some common sense? cut these people some slack because i really doubt that you of all people really believe that a magic "hohoho santa" came out of the fucking nowhere with some "magic knowledge" and created it all and that explains everything you motherfucker ^^

What "people" am I a part of?

I'm just stating that believers of a book that says "there is no evidence of god" are unlikely to be dissuaded by presenting evidence that "there is no evidence of god". :p
 

Imaulle

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Someone care to explain the exact process on how life actually started? Did a bolt of lightning strike the earth and create some DNA or something? And if it did, how did it survive or multiply? Can I take some DNA today, place it in a Petri dish under the most ideal conditions, and have it survive and reproduce itself? No. Thats why evolution makes no sense, it's based on assumptions only.

biopoiesis. they've been able to create amino acids in a lab from non organic materials using a simple chemistry set
 
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Someone care to explain the exact process on how life actually started? Did a bolt of lightning strike the earth and create some DNA or something? And if it did, how did it survive or multiply? Can I take some DNA today, place it in a Petri dish under the most ideal conditions, and have it survive and reproduce itself? No. Thats why evolution makes no sense, it's based on assumptions only.

So...you want billions and billions of years of evolution to happen (grow something new/old) in a petri dish (in what time frame?)? My Science/Your God, I hope you're young! ;)

We actually do ALREADY see bacteria evolve though!
 

PaperclipGod

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Someone care to explain the exact process on how life actually started? Did a bolt of lightning strike the earth and create some DNA or something? And if it did, how did it survive or multiply? Can I take some DNA today, place it in a Petri dish under the most ideal conditions, and have it survive and reproduce itself? No. Thats why evolution makes no sense, it's based on assumptions only.

Every scientific theory can be derived from observable phenomenons. Religion derives from myth and heresay.

Why are you so afraid of logic and reasoning? Is your faith really so threatened that theories derived from basic observable concepts like gravity and bacteria need to be attacked to maintain your religious convictions?

If you truly have faith, then no amount of secular reasoning should matter to you. But since you're trying to combat secular reasoning with your own form of rudimentary logic, I can oly assume that faith isn't enough for you, and you need your god to make sense on a physical level. So... either you're a heathen who is falling from gods path, or you're a budding secularist.
 

pelo

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What "people" am I a part of?

I'm just stating that believers of a book that says "there is no evidence of god" are unlikely to be dissuaded by presenting evidence that "there is no evidence of god". :p

If we're going to be technical about this, most atheists are actually not atheists at all. Rather, they're agnostic. Agnosticism doesn't necessarily mean "God" in the Abrahamic "man-like" thing, but rather the concept of a God that can range from anything like a mathematical formula to some weird flying spaghetti monster. It defies logic to claim that it can't possibly exist thus you can't discard it as a possibility. It's the Bertrand Russel definition of atheism/agnosticism that most people ascribe to when they consider themselves atheist. That is, you're an atheist to everyone who doesn't understand the true definition of agnostic, but as soon as you step inside an academic setting with people who understand the dilemma then you're all agnostic.

To put it bluntly in a plain and understandable TL/DR fashion:

Saying there is no God or God-like thing is as illogical as claiming as a fact that there is one. We're all agnostic until we can be absolutely sure it's one or the other.
 

Imaulle

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429385_3121992881690_1020618379_3036184_1162657657_n.jpg
 

distortion69

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There has never been any prove that evolution exists every new fossil which should be the missing link because they have no other fossil that old is later proven wrong by a new fossil predating it, If we naturally evolved from one form to another form then why are the older forms coexisting over and over in our history?
Yes neanderthals exhisted with modern man, as well as others because my God loves diversity even to this day. If you were able to make living matter anyway you wanted wouldn't you make diversity? even today there are Caucations , African- americans, asians, and many more than I can name all different but made by God.

As far as God making the Sun on the 4th day there wasn't anyone here to see the light until later, so why do you have a problem whith when he did it?

I have an equally ridiculous question: If large portions of the English language derived from French, how come people still speak French?

The entire paragraph above shows you really have no idea how evolution works.

The funny part is, there are libraries of information on evolution.. more than you could read in your lifetime. There are some unanswered questions, but it is a consistent theory. You won't spend 20 seconds to read and actually learn how it works, just quote some nonsense you read on some propaganda site. However, when it comes to supernatural claims that claim of 900 year old humans, talking bushes, and other insanity... no, no holes there.
 

pelo

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I have an equally ridiculous question: If large portions of the English language derived from French, how come people still speak French?

The entire paragraph above shows you really have no idea how evolution works.

The funny part is, there are libraries of information on evolution.. more than you could read in your lifetime. There are some unanswered questions, but it is a consistent theory. You won't spend 20 seconds to read and actually learn how it works, just quote some nonsense you read on some propaganda site. However, when it comes to supernatural claims that claim of 900 year old humans, talking bushes, and other insanity... no, no holes there.

It's actually far more simple than that.

His idea of evolution is a staircase with a finish line at the top -- species in this analogy would be the stairs. Thus you go from one species to the next in a race to the supreme species. Of course, that's wrong. Evolution is far more simple. The term "species" is just a notion that we humans thought up. Evolutionary theory works devoid of species and just happens, where any and every change (let's say in the DNA) that can be considered a positive attribute and provides for the success of other creatures that are alike is proof of evolution.

If you want to conduct an experiment in a laboratory setting you can head to your local university, ask to spend a couple of weeks at a microbiology lab and I can guarantee you that you'll have witnessed evolution within that time frame. If you'd like a more visible example then go to a rescue shelter and ask to see a dog.

As far as nature is concerned, there are no species. A more favorable description would be a tree where branches loop and branch off into all sorts of directions, with a countless number of twigs springing from the branches. The question shouldn't be whether you go from a step to the next but if you perceive any beneficial change at all that gets passed on? The answer to that is a resounding "yes."
 

pelo

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Wow! So, how would an amino acid become a life form capable of reproducing?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01/replicatingrna/

Self-replicating RNA. If we're to follow our DNA trail backwards it leads to single-celled organisms (mainly the mitochondria in our cells are actually tiny little bacterial cells) which favored RNA over DNA for genetic information and protein synthesis.

But that's beside the point; what does him having to prove to you why it's evolution prove that Christianity or any other religion is right? If you're genuinely curious then you can ask me and if you don't like the answers you can go out and verify or disprove that hypothesis and conclusion yourself rather than point to a book and tell everyone it's so because... well... it is? I get that you hate science and the way it goes against your beliefs, but the mere fact that you're typing on a computer and staring at a screen while bits of information are travelling across wires hundreds/thousands of miles away should certainly give a "theory" some credibility, no?
 

TheCommander

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Bzzt, wrong. I know for certain the Christian god does not exist and it's easy to prove. The problem is the massive denial of believers, not the logic.

Sorry but you dont know anything on that matter. Neither does any religious person or atheist.
 

TheCommander

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If we're going to be technical about this, most atheists are actually not atheists at all. Rather, they're agnostic. Agnosticism doesn't necessarily mean "God" in the Abrahamic "man-like" thing, but rather the concept of a God that can range from anything like a mathematical formula to some weird flying spaghetti monster. It defies logic to claim that it can't possibly exist thus you can't discard it as a possibility. It's the Bertrand Russel definition of atheism/agnosticism that most people ascribe to when they consider themselves atheist. That is, you're an atheist to everyone who doesn't understand the true definition of agnostic, but as soon as you step inside an academic setting with people who understand the dilemma then you're all agnostic.

To put it bluntly in a plain and understandable TL/DR fashion:

Saying there is no God or God-like thing is as illogical as claiming as a fact that there is one. We're all agnostic until we can be absolutely sure it's one or the other.

I totally agree. It's too bad some of the people here claim that they know for "certain."
 

dadman

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So...you want billions and billions of years of evolution to happen (grow something new/old) in a petri dish (in what time frame?)? My Science/Your God, I hope you're young! ;)

We actually do ALREADY see bacteria evolve though!

So you are saying that an amino acid takes billions of years to evolve? How does it live that long in the first place? And I don't believe that I mentioned the Bible in any of my posts.

I am certain that God exists for what it's worth.
 

Ashbringer

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If by compelling you mean completely unscientific because it offers no falsifiable hypothesis, then yeah.

Recent news about how the earth maybe generating it's magnetic field through an outside source of electricity. In the electric cosmology model, this would be expected as space isn't empty, but teeming with charged particles. There is evidence of this happening. Only electricity creates magnetism.

Another recent discovery was these giant massive bubbles coming out of the milky way. Nobody knows where the electrons are coming from.

I believe that electricity plays a much larger roll in the universe, and that common cosmology has mostly ignored it.
 

satsunada

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So you are saying that an amino acid takes billions of years to evolve? How does it live that long in the first place?

Life finds a way. Well.. that and generally smaller things have to replicate and grow faster. So chances are, one of a few trillion amino acids mutated and then that mutation mutated and then so on. It's not something we can generally replicate in a lab setting, we lack the time and quantity. So in that regard, it's much like religion.
 

PaperclipGod

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If only these religious nutbags would just keep their delusions to themselves and not try to legislate them onto the rest of us.
 

Sly

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Sorry but you dont know anything on that matter. Neither does any religious person or atheist.

Yahweh (Christian God) vs Zeus vs Ifrit vs Baphomet. Can you prove that the Christian God any more real than the others? Can anyone from each of their followers present a viable argument to prove that their god is the real one? Each one can present their case, each based completely on faith and claim that the others are merely superstition.

Assuming that there are a thousand religions on earth. Odds of god being real is about a thousand to 1.
 

pelo

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Yahweh (Christian God) vs Zeus vs Ifrit vs Baphomet. Can you prove that the Christian God any more real than the others? Can anyone from each of their followers present a viable argument to prove that their god is the real one? Each one can present their case, each based completely on faith and claim that the others are merely superstition.

Assuming that there are a thousand religions on earth. Odds of god being real is about a thousand to 1.

It's an argument that's all-too-often discarded but a great one. Most X believers (where X can be anything from Christianity to some tribal belief in Papua New Guinea) believe that they're beliefs are right and therefore discredit (and must in order to provide credence to their own) every other. In a sense, everyone is an "atheist," just a few of us decided to take it a single step further.

Anyway, very interesting article. I stumbled upon a few of them yesterday regarding the same discovery. It's interesting because only a few days ago I was watching one of those Science Channel shows where they were discussing dark matter and how they observed galaxies colliding and yet the dark matter seemed to pass right through without any observable attraction. Shows how much we still have to go :p
 

dadman

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If only these religious nutbags would just keep their delusions to themselves and not try to legislate them onto the rest of us.

Seems to me that the reverse is true. I haven't tried to force anything on anybody in this thread. I have only stated what I believe. Sorry if you are offened by that.
 

dadman

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Life finds a way. Well.. that and generally smaller things have to replicate and grow faster. So chances are, one of a few trillion amino acids mutated and then that mutation mutated and then so on. It's not something we can generally replicate in a lab setting, we lack the time and quantity. So in that regard, it's much like religion.

I believe that mutations in general don't live very long, and can't reproduce either. Bacteria build up immunities to antibiotics just like we build up immunities to them. It's called adaptation, not evolution. By the way, there is no know cure for any virus, we can only suppress them. Viruses do not respond to antibiotics either.
 
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