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Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Feb 21, 2017.
What is your idea for cooling in the A4?
It will be harder doing it on the A4, but I'm thinking about making it completely sectioned out internally, only having a few holes at the bottom for wires, and a full spine instead of the half one with plastic. The mod will work a lot better in the Ghost S1 with a small tophat than on the A4. That plus fan to side panel mod on the cpu cooler should help quite a bit with the overall temps.
It will be enough if you setup "Long Power Duration = 95W" in UEFI. If not the CPU will run with TDP ~200W and you need min 240mm AIO. 105W more TDP for a average performance gain of 8% this is so crazy.
Intel's architecture is hitting a brick wall. Their unrealistic tdp's are going to leave a lot of less informed consumers with thermally throttled cpu's
We'll see how it goes with the Black Ridge. I hope to be able to squeeze a small OC out of my 4790k.
My 7700K(delid) is going strong inside A4, but the high watt GPU's are driving up the temps as well. 9900K and a 2080ti would be a nasty combination inside the A4. I would definitely wait for Intel's 10nm or Ryzen 3 on 7nm if I were to buy a new cpu.
Damn, doesn't work with my RAM. Oh well.
That's the plan. We won't see major improvement in perf/watt until the next manufacturing node.
I need to try the same with my A4. So sick of the heat in this thing!
Ducting/sealing the cpu fan to the case vent/side panel will make a massive difference in any sff system. Same goes for the gpu too. If both are sealed to the side panels they act as case fans producing huge positive pressure inside the case. I did that in my Sentry for my gpu and cpu. Worked great. Sealing the two chambers probably wouldn't be necessary.
Problem is I'm using the Asetek AIO that is already "sealed" to the bottom and I have an aftermarket GPU that will be pretty tough to seal to the side.
Configure "Long Power Duration" = 95W or lower in UEFI and attach a 120mm slim fan on top of the pump between side panel and pump (outblowing) and you will have good temps.
Are pre-orders for the cooler cheaper than the retail price? On the product page its 37.99 pounds sterling at check out its 31.99. Anyone else getting this?
Also, will the corsair vengence LPX ram work with this or will I STILL have to remove the heat sinks because I could have sworn those are 34mm in height but I could be wrong.
Yeah. Mine was cheaper than retail. Mine was 29.99GBP
According to the good peeps @SFF they'll fit as they build 31 mm. What say you, dondan ?
Just FYI, a long time back I've replaced my G.Skill Ripjaws V heatsinks (which are too tall for Black Ridge) with cheap aftermarket heatsinks from China. Both of them (the original and aftermarket) are pasted on with thermal stickers and easy to remove and replace. I assume this is the same for most RAM out there, except for those RGB ones.
Thanks! Could you share a little more about the whole process? And where you got those replacements?
U dont even need those heatsinks on the ram modules.
Just pry off the heatsinks carefully with a flat tip screwdriver, since they are just pasted on with stickers. Then get replacements like:
And since Kingston Valueram comes without heatsink, you may not actually need them like mirgus said.
P.S. I'm not responsible for any damage caused. Please check that they are stickered on.
I do this completely at my own risk. I guess the Flare X is double sided, but do I use some form of thermal pads inside the new heatsinks? On both sides? Thanks!
Those aftermarket heatsinks will come with stickers. The G.skill Ripjaws V heatsinks were just stickers as well.
If the preapplied tape doesn't work there is thermal adhesive tape available on e-tailers like Amazon. I used this to reattach a heatsink that fell of some crucial ddr3 memory. Holds stronger than the original. Very sticky, seriously you have to handle it with tweezers because it sticks to everything. I have used it for other projects like adding heatsinks gpu VRMs too.
A die shrink isn't going to solve your problem. In fact, it'll make it worse. The smaller the die, the more concentrated the heat, the harder it is to dissipate. Dan himself said this is why he didn't rate the heat sink for a specific TDP. It's just not a good idea to put high end Intel chips in SFF builds unless you either undervolt, de-lid, or both.
If it's just for performance, 10nm on Intel's side will have very slow clocks relative to the 5ghz that we have on 14+++. That won't be worth waiting for. Ryzen 3 on the other hand, maybe.
Thank you so much, appreciated! <3
I wonder how this would perform passively? I have an underclocked undervolt 35W part, no 2.5mm drive, no GPU and a pico PSU rather than a full PSU that goes to an external linear power supply.
I don't have the cooler to varify but based on my experience, you'll want airflow of some kind. Any at all will make a difference. Most completely passive things like tablets, modems, routers have a tdp of 5-10W. Most fanless pc's, like industrial pc's, with tdp ~35w or more typically sink to the case itself which is usually a huge chunk of aluminum, like 2kg of finned aluminum. This cooler is more like ~400g.
I have a 25W tdp Xeon E3 cpu, basically a very low clocked quad core i7, even with a Noctua NH-l9x65 cooler (with the stock noctua fan) on there it idles around 37C and gets up to 50C. (I'm sure that's partly Intel's paste TIM to blame)
It's not a tremendously expensive cooler so if you're already going to buy it anyway it could be worth a try though.
You do know that 50C is insanely low for intel silicon even soldered stuff...
Hell, even GPUs tend to not ramp their fans until the cards are around 70C+.
It very well could use a lot less power than the 14nm equivalent depending on how many transistors we are gonna see on 10nm. I doubt we will see "very slow clocks" on Intel's 10nm when it comes to high-end, but we are most likely going to see cheaper/low power cpu's using 10nm till it matures further and when that happens we are gonna see the release of their high-end generation.
I won't be upgrading to 9900K because of obvious reasons, I have my 7700k delidded and undervolted in my A4-SFX (with a NH-l12) as I'm moving it over to the Ghost S1 for better cooling. Right now I'm running at 4.5 and expecting to hit 4.7/4.8 ghz with a 2080ti if I can isolate the cpu from the gpu/psu a little better.
I realize 50C is well within spec. I'm saying my lower tdp cpu with a much bigger cooler runs that warm with a 92mm fan at 1800rpm. I suppose I could turn the fan off just for giggles.
Wooh! Preordered one from OCUK too! Can't wait to start trying fan configurations. With this I won't need the 3D printed shroud anymore
Every single high end K sku on a Z platform has had at least 91W TDP since well, forever. There's no reason to believe that'll change this generation, especially given all the issues Intel has had making a working chip to begin with. The die shrinks always benefit the low power systems. High end rarely changes.
You're right, what Intel labels it doesn't change but TDP from Intel is pretty misleading. It's only measured at base clock. Any boost at all over base clock (which it will be almost constantly in any gaming or professional work scenario) and you can throw that tdp out the window. Base and boost used to only be 200-400mhz different during the quad core days so even at full boost the power draw/heat dissipation would be close to the rated tdp. Now we have boost clocks that are 1ghz or more above base clock. Intel has lowered the base clock way down to keep the tdp in check for their marketing material. But if these 6 and 8 core cpu's boost on all cores rather than just one or two, a cpu like the 9900K will draw around 200+ Watts according to reviews. So while cpu's used to always be around 80-95W, this generation is really stretching the validity of the tdp as Intel measures it due to the artificially low base clock. Most people won't care because they can put a 240mm AIO or 160mm tall twin tower cooler on it but for sff enthusiasts it's a problem. Intel marketing says 95w but realistically it's more like 140-150W in real usage. That's going to be frustrating for people new to sff systems or 9th gen Intel cpu's. We'll see what 10nm brings to the table but I'm not holding my breath for earth shattering increases in perf/watt.
We'll see how this cooler handles these cpu's. Surely someone is going to try it.
My body was so ready for this.....then saw that lack of X79/X99 support.
I probably would have bought one too if that were the case. Its hard to give up these old CPUs.
Yeah, the project started to cool the x99 on the asrock x99e-itx and after the 4 sample coolers came in Dan opted out due to the added cost of implementing x99 support. Sad times...I have been computerless for over a year due to it. I immediately sold my A4 and have been waiting on the Ghost S1.
I can't imagine the cooler outperforming a C7 Cu + A9x14 in the stock config with the 92mm fan. With a 120mm fan, it could get another 4-5 degrees, but VLP DDR4 right now is a really tough requirement. I'm still excited for it and look forward to numbers, but I'm keeping my expectations in check.
That cooler will smash the C7 easily
I would like to use the 120mm fan underneath. What VLP ram would you guys recommend for Z370 mITX motherboards?
Any chance this will compete well against an AIO 120? (I know its a silly question but I'm an ITX user with a larger case)
My mobo really could use some airflow over the VRMs but I'm not sure it's worth replacing my existing AIO if i'll just be fighting core temps instead.
I just got these: https://enoch.systems/en/p/components/memory/m4ui-8gs1vc0k-c.html
Took a couple of weeks to get, but worth it.
Here they are with an Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac and Noctua NH-L12 (had to mod the cpu voltage regulator heatsink to fin the 120x25mm fan): https://imgur.com/a/huqyude
Right now I have my A4 side panels off, and will likely switch to a Ghost S1.