DAN C4-SFX: The smallest water cooling case in the world

dondan said:
Today I made a short rendering with I/O on top because I still like this design. I think it looks more elegant without the cutouts on the sides. For this test I used only USB3.0 type A and USB3.1 type C on the topside. I know we already had the discussion, but what do you think?

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My view is that the top I/O solves two problems;
1. Additional cost of machining the cut out. That might not matter for the average Dancase customer who clearly supports innovation and good looks above cost.
2. Fingerprints from stray fingers as you grope around trying to make your USB device plug in for the third attempt. That's much more of an issue for the aesthetically driven dancase customer!

I like side I/O much more but then I don't want to be polishing and cleaning fingerprints every other day.

One more quick point on filters, If this case is intending to draw air in from the bottom then it's going to pull in a lot of dust from that direction so proper filtering is essential. If it's exhausting through the bottom then the same point for the top. I just opened up an old Silverstone PC which has not been opened for three years and it's as clean as a whistle because all air was input through filters. IMO it's essential.
 
Oh man, could you imagine running dual gpus with a waterbock? Bifurcation here we come! Now if only SLI was supported by more games.
 
Today I worked just for fun on a C4-SFX version based on Lian Li's unibody way to make cases (there is no inner frame only one big outer frame). Maybe a backup solution if i am not happy with the real live results of the current version.
Additional information: A unibody version like this can reduce the price from 180€ to 160-170€. Because the case will have less parts.

c4-sfx_v2.2695csv2.jpg


testkmubf.jpg
 
I think both designs look really good aesthetically and it comes down to how similar YOU want C4 look to A4. Very similar establishes a brand image; something people associate with Dan cases the moment they see it. But then it restricts you to that very image as you go. Tough call. I think there is value to being recognizable but differentiate somewhat so it won't constrain you later on.
 
One important thing to note about side/front/top I/O is that both front and top are side-agnostic. Meaning that the case could be on your left or right side without causing connectivity problems. Side I/O is not ideal because a good chunk of the users will have problems using the case.
 
If you have the case to your right, and the case has I/O on its right, then it’s inconvenient, and same for left. I/O on the front or top means you can site the case against a wall without any issues. A different solution might be to make the I/O panel swappable from left to right, or make the whole case flipable.
 
Buttoneer said:
If you have the case to your right, and the case has I/O on its right, then it’s inconvenient, and same for left. I/O on the front or top means you can site the case against a wall without any issues. A different solution might be to make the I/O panel swappable from left to right, or make the whole case flipable.
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Maybe you forgot that you can flip the case, see the pic below:

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dondan said:
Why?
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Well, If I read correctly the I/O is in a fixed position. Yes, you can rotate the case, but that isn't the perfect solution, at least not to me.

So, I/O on the side means that the case will be upside down (or not) depending solely on where you need said I/O.

Instead, if the I/O is at the top of the case or on the front then the case is side-agnostic and thus it doesn't matter if it is right-side or left-side relative to the user sitting at his desk.

It also helps with symmetry, and helps at keeping the whole ordeal more neat.
 
prava said:
Well, If I read correctly the I/O is in a fixed position. Yes, you can rotate the case, but that isn't the perfect solution, at least not to me.

So, I/O on the side means that the case will be upside down (or not) depending solely on where you need said I/O.

Instead, if the I/O is at the top of the case or on the front then the case is side-agnostic and thus it doesn't matter if it is right-side or left-side relative to the user sitting at his desk.

It also helps with symmetry, and helps at keeping the whole ordeal more neat.
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Honestly I think this is a non-issue. The case will NOT be upside down, because it's meant to be flipped 180°, it's a welcomed feature of the case, maybe a first for the SFF catgory.
Also, not all cases are symmetrical, actually in some cases an asymmetry can make the whole thing less "boring" design-wise. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure it has never been an issue so far.
 
I have the Lian Li v700 case, which was one of the first (of not the first) Lian Li case to use the unibody design. It looks great, but kinda feels dated now. The plastic clips are not good enough to hold up the weight of an ATX sized side panel, so they kinda droop a little. Making the case in this fashion would remove all the nice details that made it unique, and basically just make it an A4XL (you could make that at another time). The C4 case will already be a premium case, and I'd rather have it come with the nice design, glass side and so on at a bit higher price, than save a few € just to have it look a lot more generic. Your design is unique and looks great. Might be a little more expensive, but have confidence in it. These kinds of cases brings computers from ugly boxes into beautiful aesthetical pieces we like to look at, after spending a lot of money on an awesome system.
 
prava said:
Well, If I read correctly the I/O is in a fixed position. Yes, you can rotate the case, but that isn't the perfect solution, at least not to me.

So, I/O on the side means that the case will be upside down (or not) depending solely on where you need said I/O.

Instead, if the I/O is at the top of the case or on the front then the case is side-agnostic and thus it doesn't matter if it is right-side or left-side relative to the user sitting at his desk.

It also helps with symmetry, and helps at keeping the whole ordeal more neat.
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Dude I think you need to sit down and go through this again...
Even if the I/O was on top. how would you solve main side panel to be on the right vs left side?

You HAVE TO flip the case for that. Top radiator will turn into bottom radiator, that's all. I'm not sure what problem you have with that. It's less of an issue to have the radiator place change than to put the glass panel to the wall.
 
Having to accept a reorientation of the radiator just to place the ports on your preferred side? That seems an odd tradeoff to me. On the other hand, how many other cases can be flipped in the first place?

Symmetrically placed ports – top or front – seems the most user-friendly solution. Front placement is more convenient (think of the system placed on a low surface under a desk), but less aesthetically pleasing than on the top IMO.

Speaking of the radiator, will one orientation be optimal in any way? I wonder whether the center-of-gravity will shift dramatically in one orientation, causing the case to be top-heavy. Conceptually, a top-mounted radiator makes sense: emitting heat upward. But Dan shows the rad on the bottom most of the time.

Thoughts?
 
Currently I plan the different test configuration for the C4-SFX:

Main Components:
-i7 8700
-Motherboard H310 or B360
-Nvidia GTX 1070 Reference
-32GB DDR4 VLP
-Corsair 450W SFX PSU

Air Cooler for active cooling:
- Noctua L9i (for A4 comparison)
- Zalman CNPS8900 Quiet
- Thermalright AXP 100

Air Cooler for semi passiv cooling:
- Cryorig C1

AIO Water cooler:
- 2x Asetek 120mm AIO 27mm radiator
- Asetek 240mm AIO 27mm
- Alphacool Eisbaer LT + Eiswolf GPX Pro ( GTX 1070 + (extra test with 30mm thick Alphacool radiator )

Case Fans
- 2x be quiet! Silent Wings 3 2200rpm
- 2x Noctua NF-F12 PWM
- 2x Noctua NF-A12x15

What do you think?
 
What about to use another radiator fans? like vardar, nidec, corsair.... etc
be quiet doesnt work very well
 
Yea these all sound great, but if you could add ek vardars to the fan test I think it would be perfect.
 
dondan said:
Currently I plan the different test configuration for the C4-SFX:

Main Components:
-i7 8700
-Motherboard H310 or B360
-Nvidia GTX 1070 Reference
-32GB DDR4 VLP
-Corsair 450W SFX PSU

Air Cooler for active cooling:
- Noctua L9i (for A4 comparison)
- Zalman CNPS8900 Quiet
- Thermalright AXP 100

Air Cooler for semi passiv cooling:
- Cryorig C1

AIO Water cooler:
- 2x Asetek 120mm AIO 27mm radiator
- Asetek 240mm AIO 27mm
- Alphacool Eisbaer LT + Eiswolf GPX Pro ( GTX 1070 + (extra test with 30mm thick Alphacool radiator )

Case Fans
- 2x be quiet! Silent Wings 3 2200rpm
- 2x Noctua NF-F12 PWM
- 2x Noctua NF-A12x15

What do you think?
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That's a good list. I'm glad you're testing the dual water block Alphacool configuration, and eager to learn how well it works.

Regarding the other components, if possible could you test some higher power and hotter components? It seems wise given the kinds of rigs A4 users are building. Specifically:

- an overclocked i7
- 600W or more PSU
- GTX 1080 or 1080ti
- Ryzen or Threadripper CPUs
- M2 drives on both sides of the motherboard
 
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dglow said:
That a good list. I'm glad you're testing the dual water block Alphacool configuration, and eager to learn how well it works.

Regarding the other components, if possible to obtain some higher power and hotter components? It seems wise given the kinds of rigs A4 users are building. Specifically:

- an overlocked i7
- 600W or more PSU
- GTX 1080 or 1080ti
- Ryzen or Threadripper CPUs
- M2 drives on both sides of the motherboard
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Unless you air cool the GPU your not going to get that far on a 120mm aio with an overclocked i7.
Although an 8700k on that Alphacool Eisbaer LT would be interesting.
 
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Dan, push the system to the max and run an 8700K + 1080ti combo. Most of the people here are power users and would want to know how top tier hardware behaves in a small case with a single 240 or dual 120
 
dondan said:
Did anyone know a roundup review of these radiator fans?
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http://thermalbench.com/2017/05/25/darkside-gentle-typhoon-1150-rpm-120-mm-fan/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/11/12/darkside-gentle-typhoon-1850-pwm-120mm-fan/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/

http://thermalbench.com/2015/06/29/ek-vardar-f4-120er-120mm-fan/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/05/05/ekwb-vardar-ff5-120-fan/

http://thermalbench.com/2015/04/10/blacknoise-nb-eloop-b12-4-120mm-fan/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/04/10/blacknoise-nb-eloop-b12-1-120mm-fan/

http://thermalbench.com/2016/07/12/corsair-ml120-pro-120-mm-fan/

http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/22/alphacool-susurro-120mm-fan/

You have a lot of sounds compares on this yt channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CoolingTechnique/videos
 
Thanks for the links. I made the decission to drop my current fan list and use 2x EK-Vardar Evo 120ER (2200rpm). This is the newest version of the Vardar. The gently typhoon black looks also very interesting, but no one offer them in Germany.
 
dondan said:
Thanks for the links. I made the decission to drop my current fan list and use 2x EK-Vardar Evo 120ER (2200rpm). This is the newest version of the Vardar. The gently typhoon black looks also very interesting, but no one offer them in Germany.
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Thanks Dan, those are the exact models I was planning to use.
 
Hi everyone,

I like to start a discussion about cooling configurations you plan to use inside the C4-SFX. Air cooling, AIOs, fan's and custom water loops everything is allowed.

Maybe we can find some best practice configuration that will help everyone to find suitable cooling solutions for the C4-SFX. Furthermore I hope to see uniq ideas that I not thought about.

With best regards
Daniel Hansen
 
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If I have the chance to get this case then I would use it with 2x120 AIO’s, one for the CPU (most probably a delidded 8700K) and one for an EVGA1080ti Hybrid with 120mm AIO.
 
Since the EVGA is a Asetek based AIO you could easily fit a second AIO based on Asetek design. If you plan to use a non Asetek based AIO for the CPU it could be that it will not fit because the total space is 303mm. And some manufacturers use 120mm radiators that are longer than 151.5mm.
 
What is the model number of the Asetek 120mm CPU AIO that is compatible with the C4 ? (in case for a dual AIO)
570LC ?
 
You get me wrong. Nearly every AIO you can buy is made by Asetek. Asetek is the OEM for NZXT, Corsair s.o. Here is a list:

https://www.asetek.com/desktop/do-it-yourself/

Asetek don't sell their AIOs to B2C only to B2B except of the 92mm AIO version. So you don't need to buy a AIO from Asetek itself you only have to make sure you buy a AIO from a brand that use Asetek as OEM.

Example:

Thermaltake water 3.0
Corsair H55
NZXT Kraken X31
 
kingtron said:
If I have the chance to get this case then I would use it with 2x120 AIO’s, one for the CPU (most probably a delidded 8700K) and one for an EVGA1080ti Hybrid with 120mm AIO.
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I would second this with the evga 120 clc and a evga 1080ti/1080 hybrid to match. Hard to beat no maintenance and evga warranty.
 
I like the unibody version better. Aesthetically it looks better and represents DANCASE better IMHO. I kinda like the Ghost S1 too, but it's a little heavy, and ind the end I'm put off by the tophats (although I see why others like this).
 
The setup I'm thinking of would consist of a 24cm CLC for the CPU. 2 fans on it that are somewhat airflow focused, to provide lots of air in the case. I plan on turning the case around as I want a window and use it on my right side, placing the CLC on top. As for the GPU, I'm hoping to get a 2-3 fan cooler that is only 2 slots tall. As I'll use a window, there needs to be ½ a pci slot of space, so air can actually reach the GPU fans. The airflow created by the radiator fan should help with that. So I need the 2½ slot PCI adapter thing in my build. Only annoyance with this setup, is negative air pressure sucking dust in everywhere (even through USB ports). So hopefully the bottom will be very open, when turning the case upside down (but I plan on using a dust filter), so most air will be sucked through there.


That being said, I've looked a lot at tempered glass sides, especially from glass shops. It should be possible to do a proper glass side. Remember that the case side is very small, meaning the window will be small and light as well. So you might be able to use smaller screw holes, even if they are close to the edges. Most tempered glass panels stick out from their case a little. To me that is just a sign that it is glass and thus a sign of quality. So 2-3 mm thick glass side that sticks out a little is fine, as long as the edges are rounded.
I simply hate acrylics, as they crack around the screw holes, expands when heated up (they will in such a small case), thus making cracking noises when they cool down. They get scratched easily and get static electricity thus sucking dust onto it. At least that is my experience with my Lian Li v700 case. But also my age old Cooler Master (back when they made alu cases). I hope you might reconsider on the tempered glass part. If not, I will get a custom one. I want real glass for the first time ;)
 
Oh, btw. Have you seen the new side panel "hooks" that Lian Li has made? You won't need any holes in glass panels with them, as they are glued:


That is a steel case, but it 130$ with 2 glass panels.
 
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