DAN C4-SFX: A water & air cooled SFF case

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Today I reviewed the result of the second survey.


    [​IMG]


    94,4% of all voters like the design of the C4-SFX. So this makes me happy because it looks like I found a new outer design that is different to the old one that match your taste.


    Relating the front logo question there is no real winner. So this is something I have to decide by myself. I think there are people that can’t life with the front logo because they like it clean. On the other hand people that like the logo will also buy the case without it. So I think I will do it like with the A4-SFX and make the C4-SFX without front logo.


    For the back side 68,5% like to have venting holes. What I forget to say, these holes have no real function and will not have a real impact on cooling performance. Maybe this question is now biased because it is based on wrong hopes. In my opinion it would be the best to make the backside clean. External water cooling lovers can easily mod the case and everyone else will have a clean back side that looks more aesthetic then pre drilled tube holes. But the last word isn’t spoken I have to think about going the democratic or the dictatorial way.


    Now we come to the last question. This one was the most important for me. For around 55% of the participant 2 Slot is enough and 45% like to have 2.5 Slot card support to fit cards like the Asus GTX 1080Ti Strix.


    I thought the last days about it and found a solution that match everyone tastes. The C4-SFX will be the first sub 10L case that will fit both 2 and 2.5 Slot cards.

    In the first step I made the cutout and mounting bend 10mm longer. I removed the slot bar so the I/O ports of the card will be not covered if you shift it. I
    n the second step I created a cover that will be useable in two directions. Direction one will support 2 Slot cards if you rotate the cover and screw it again to the case it will support 2.5 slot cards. I made two different types of covers. One cover with center bar and the other without it. What version do you prefer?


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Supporting both card types require also changes on the riser car. So I have two ideas for it. The first idea is including two risers one for 2.5 slot cards and the other for 2 slot cards. The second idea is adding a second PCIe port to the current riser. Both PCIe Ports will be connected to the same lanes so you can’t use them simultaneous but both ports will have full PCIe 16x speed.


    [​IMG]




    What do you think?



    Thank you for your support.

    Daniel Hansen
     
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  2. Notional

    Notional n00bie

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    1. Cover B seems to be a really good solution to the different use cases. I think this case is mostly made for AIO CPU cooling, so why need such high CPU cooler depth? It's an expensive case so I think people will have large graphics cards with a great cooler on it for silence, so 2½ should at least be supported.

    2. I really like the font on the DAN logo and I think it should stay. It breaks the blandness of a completely clean front, which just ends up looking a little boring.

    3. In the rendered pics, the panels are dark grey compared to the black interior. The colour contrast looks amazing. Would you make the panels dark grey?

    4. You say you can turn the case upside down. But in the bottom of the front, the metal piece bends into the case to hold the side panels. That leaves a hole between the feet and the front panel. Will this be covered?

    5. I would love to have the power button on the lower left side and the USB's on the top left side. Would it be possible to turn the entire front around while still having the AIO in the bottom? Like unscrew the entire front and turn it around?

    This case looks amazing. I can't wait for the Kickstarter. Keep up the good work :)
     
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  3. masteralef

    masteralef n00bie

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    I'll just note about Cover A- if there's no really good reason to have the middle bar, get rid of it. Too many GPUs have venting holes in weird positions, and they sometimes line up with that middle bar. No reason to block vents if it's unnecessary.
     
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  4. davaeron

    davaeron n00bie

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    1. For the front. Well, i reviewed renders and part of me agrees with Notional that without logo it would be boring somehow.

    2. In survey i voted for the clean backside because i thought that it will not have any impact on cooling performance and seems that i was right.

    3. For the GPU cover, i like Cover B.

    4. And for the PCIe riser, i like your second idea about 2 ports 1 riser =)
    If consumer will receive 2 risers he might end up loosing 1 that was not installed.
    Spare parts gets lost over time.

    Looking forward for the Kickstarter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  5. AlMiDaX

    AlMiDaX n00bie

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    1) I was among those who prefer to have a clear front without Logo, but if you manage to make it less noticeable or reduce its size, I'll be totally fine with it. My suggestion is to make the logo the same color as the case but with a different finish (the Silver Ncase M1 is a great example).

    2) As for the back side, I honestly prefer it with venting holes, the case looks just right with them. I know that it won't make a huge difference, but still I rather have them than not.

    3) Definitely opt for cover B. As the A version may partially block the exhaust flow in some cards.

    4) For the PCI riser, as long as performance isn't affected, you should go for the most cost effective solution.

    ---

    In the next survey, I think you should ask how people intend to use the case: either with bottom radiator or with the radiator at the top (flipping the case 180°) - That could bring interesting results.
     
  6. Calrez

    Calrez n00bie

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    1. Dan logo should stay
    2. clean backside is cool as well
    3. cover a
    4. 2 slot is fine with me no need for double slot riser nonsense, this supposed to be cheaper bcs of the cheaper riser pls don't take it away
     
  7. cowsgomoo2

    cowsgomoo2 [H]Lite

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    You could go back to the flexible riser. 2.5 slot support is pretty cool.
     
  8. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    The result will be, that the most people will mount it on top, because they think that the "hot air will rise" principle will affect cooling performance if they mount it in the way I show on the renderings. There is no case like this on the market so they have no experience with this layout. With my tests I hope I can show that there will be no difference between radiator on bottom or on top. It was the same with the A4-SFX people will only trust and change there mind after they see benchmarks on the real prototype or a independet review. This is the reason why I will not put this question in a survey :)
     
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  9. AlMiDaX

    AlMiDaX n00bie

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    Oh that's definitely not an issue, this case is so flexible that you can even flip it 180° so people will be ok in a way or another. Personally my main concern of having a top air intake is... dust.
    Sorry if I sound annoying lol, but this is my dream case :angelic:
    Looking forward to the test results though!
     
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  10. Ca11idus

    Ca11idus Limp Gawd

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    I love the riser card and bracket idea to support bothe 2 and 2.5 gpus.

    I voted for the vented rear but if that has no added benefit then the cut out for the water hoses should be added. This with a rubber cover will give the case a lot more versatility.

    Speaking of veraatility. The A4 lacked versatility in pursuit for the absolute minimum space while supporting higher end products. This case should be the opposite. Give us as much freedom and versatility as you can. Make it a modders sfx heaven.

    You know what everyone asked for in the A4 that couldn't be met. Try incorporating some of those ideas to the C4.

    I love how this case is turning out.
     
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  11. richiegore

    richiegore Limp Gawd

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    Is there an need for the cover plate? Just leave the gap as added ventilation.... No point in adding cost to the case...
     
  12. Blackreplica

    Blackreplica Limp Gawd

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    Dondan,

    Great innovation with the 2.5 slot gpu fitment but do use a single riser cable if possible to keep things simple and reduce cost.

    If the rear vents serve no purpose why not have the watercooling cutouts then which actually have a use? I actually think it makes the rear of the case look better but even if it didnt, who looks at the rear anyway? My V1 A4 case with the big hole above the GPU pcie slot doesnt bother me in the least bit because i never see it :)

    I also am hugely in favour of the cover B design. No crossbar to get in the way of things
     
  13. Ca11idus

    Ca11idus Limp Gawd

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    The design shows a single riser card with fitments for both 2 and 2.5 slot cards.
     
  14. Fernando93

    Fernando93 n00bie

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    Waiting for the Kickstarter too...
     
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  15. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    I played with my rendering tool:

    [​IMG]
    (click for 4K view)
     
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  16. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    dondan what would you recommend to protect the radiator? Aluminum and copper fins are such soft metals and get dinged very easily. Would a fan grill be sufficient. A filter might be more protective (but counter productive...)
     
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  17. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    dondan Amazing render, can you do some horizontal position renderings also ? I have voted without the logo because If I have this case I would rather put it in a horizontal position and the logo will be vertical.
     
  18. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    kingtron:

    What do you mean with horizontal? The rendering above is horizontal. Or do you men vertical like this:

    [​IMG]

    Someone in a German forum requested this picture:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  19. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    I meant like this:
    DCAA209D-29A9-4FF9-B1E4-060923331361.jpeg
    without the upper side panel from different angles, showing the rubber feets on the lower side panel.
    If I get the chance to have it, then this is how I plan to place it, inside a TV stand table as a console replacement HTPC:
    34E82DD2-83F6-4F9D-B4C8-B266161CBD50.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  20. Ca11idus

    Ca11idus Limp Gawd

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    OMG This is amazing!!!

    But where would all the cables go? It would need an extra buffer zone to hide the cables. But this looks incredible. Like the Gigabyte Bryx UHD's big brother.
     
  21. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Cut a hole in your desk and put the C4 over it :)
     
  22. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    kingtron: i will do do some renderings for you on Sunday. I think of adding 4 glueable feets so it is useable in the orientation.
     
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  23. MostComfortable

    MostComfortable Limp Gawd

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    I love this, terrific design, and its still smaller than the M1.

    PS - Still thrilled with my A4, love having it as my HTPC!

    https://i.imgur.com/aB1ub7A.jpg
     
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  24. AlMiDaX

    AlMiDaX n00bie

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    dondan any chance we get an HDMI port on the front I/O? I mean, it's no big deal, but that would be a cool addition. :)
    I know it's going to take a while but I can't wait to have this beauty on my desk!
     
  25. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am thinking of a version with tempered glass window kit. Yes you are looking right, there are no venting holes on the side panel. I think the fans in the bottom create enough airflow through the complete case so the GPU will get enough air.

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    AlMiDaX: I think it is too early to add support for VR.
     
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  27. Chapeau

    Chapeau Gawd

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    I'm so interested in how testing compares between top and bottom radiator solutions...:)(y)
     
  28. Philfreeze

    Philfreeze [H]Lite

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    You should make a survey where we can grade how much we would approve of each feature.

    So for example we could rate the clean front with 1-5 points and the branded front with 1-5 points.

    Then you can basically total up the points and you should see which version would have a higher acceptance rate (instead of which one people prefer). This is a much more important number for you since you want the maximum possible consumer base.
     
  29. TiRi

    TiRi n00bie

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    Does the C4-SFX case support the EK A240G Kit? I would love to use it.