DAN C4-SFX: A water & air cooled SFF case

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    [​IMG]

    Introduction

    DAN Cases is back and this is our next tribute to the SFF community.

    I am proud to introduce you the C4-SFX. The name comes from the German envelope norm for A4 papers and the possibility to mount a SFX power supply inside. With this new product I like to address three disadvantages of the A4-SFX – limited cooling, limited front I/O ports, long production time and price tag. With the C4-SFX I like to expanse my product portfolio so it will be available next to the A4-SFX.

    The result is a 9.5L SFF gaming case with the possibility to use with high-end standardized components while keep them cool and quiet.



    How it works

    The new design used a sandwich based hardware layout and offers space for full-size graphics cards, mITX motherboard and SFX power supply. Instead of mounting a flexible riser cable the new design comes with a hard riser. Therefore the graphics card will be above the motherboard.

    To provide enough air for the CPU heatsink the case has two mount points for 120mm fan in the “bottom” area. In this area it is possible to mount a 240mm AIO. The fans sucking air from the inside and push hot airt out on the bottom side. Fresh air comes in through the topside. This creates a continuous airflow in the inside between the components.


    The case allows for easy mounting of either SFX or SFX-L power supplies. The PSU is located in the front of the chassis. Depending on the size of the PSU, up to two 2.5” HDDs or SSDs can be mounted in the drive bay. This drive bay could potentially be mounted with rubber spacers to reduce vibration. A third drive can be mounted behind the front cover.

    To increase the count of accessible front I/O ports, it features USB3.0 Type-C, USB3.0-Type-A, Line-Out and Microphone jacks.

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    Just Flip it

    It is possible to flip the case 180°. Rotate the front, mount the case feets on the opposit side and flip the side cover. Now the fan area is on the top side. The allows for switching the front I/O from the right to left side.

    [​IMG]



    Specification

    Case Dimensions (H x W x D): 242 x 127,5 x 323,6mm, 9.9L
    Overall Dimensions: 247 x 127,5 x 323,6mm (including case feets)
    Weight: ??? Kg

    Graphic cards support: Dual-Slot up to 295mm length
    Motherboard support: Mini-ITX
    Power Supply support: SFX, SFX-L
    CPU Heatsink support: Up to 60mm height
    Water cooling support: 240mm AIO
    · radiator thickness 38mm with 2x 16mm thick fans
    · radiator thickness 30mm with 2x 25mm thick fans
    · radiator thickness 27mm with 2x 25m thick fans
    · radiator thickness 22mm with 2x 25mm thick fans

    Drives: 3 x 2.5" HDD/SSD

    Front ports: 1 x USB 3.0 Type-A & 1x Type-C (internal 20pin plug), 1x Microphone, 1x Line-Out
    Power button: Premium-grade button

    Material: 2.5mm aluminum (outer parts), 1.5mm aluminum (inner parts)
    Side panels: Easily clipp able with Lian Li Push Pin technology
    Colors: Anodized sand blasted black or silver exterior, matte black painted interior

    Risercard: Includes PCIe 16x hard riser
    Fan’s: Includes 2x 120mm 25mm thick fans

    Price tag: 160-180€




    Gallery


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    FAQ

    Coming soon





    Thank you for reading and your support. Please let me know what you are think!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  2. mcbirds

    mcbirds n00bie

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    Very interesting layout. Look forward to seeing some testing.
     
  3. raymondo

    raymondo Limp Gawd

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    I welcome the versatility compared to the A4. You might want to add a dust filter option for the bottom. Some areas are way more prone to dust than the North German plain.
     
    Verdi likes this.
  4. Watermelon-

    Watermelon- n00bie

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    Great work Dan, big step up from the A4 to fix the CPU overheating issues. Any ETA?
     
  5. MIDIBoss

    MIDIBoss [H]Lite

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    Very cool! I enjoy seeing your work. The water cooling compatibility idea is good. I went with Ncase M1 for now, but smaller form factor always intrigues me becuase my machines need to be portable. Looking forward to seeing the development on this project. Question: Why do you think the waiting time for this unit will improve? Are you changing the manufacturing supplier for the Dan cases?
     
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  6. Ca11idus

    Ca11idus Limp Gawd

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    I'd love to get this alongside my A4 but I have some concerns. The cooling for the cpu, if not using liquid cooling seems like it will be hindered having the gpu right on top of it. The same can be said about the psu placement. I read and can see the fans on the bottom are there to aid in cooling but isn't it a bit ineffective with the hslp-48 as shown in the renderings? The airflow will hit the fin furthest to the bottom and won't be able to flow through to the heatpipes. If the orientation can be moved 90 degrees wouldn't that help the cooler more? Did you move away from the A4 design because the riser was too expensive? I would love to have this case with the A4 layout.
     
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  7. ceski

    ceski [H]Lite

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    Looks interesting. Dual 120mm AIO support (GPU+CPU)?
     
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  8. Brandonandon

    Brandonandon n00bie

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    The H100i V2 has a radiator that's 30mm thick. 30mm radiator + 25mm = 55mm. The current space you seem to be indicating is 28+27= 55. Would you consider 56+? Maybe 58 even? I don't think the Fractal Design Celsius S24 would fit. It has a radiator thickness of 31mm, so it'd be 56mm total with 25mm fans. Just curious since it seems to be the best performing 240mm AIO. This case seems entirely designed around 240mm rads so might as well support the best.
     
  9. Vlad502

    Vlad502 n00bie

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    I drop my opinion/ideas as a ilustration:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Jonas Mellkvist

    Jonas Mellkvist Limp Gawd

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    Nice Case but can already se with this open Case design you are restricted to Blower Cards on the Gpu.

    Also 60 mm size on Coolers are to little atleast 65 mm in a dream case scenario 70 mm for the new Noctua NH.L12S.

    Hard ricer in the top are blocking Airflow out of the Case.

    240 mm radiator in this size are really good job to get in
     
  11. Jann5s

    Jann5s [H]Lite

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    Dan, love your work (v1 owner), keep it up. I think this new design is awesome.

    A few tangentially related thoughts:
    • I think if you want to do small case water cooling the corsair-one has the best concept: Use the largest sides for the radiators. Also, water cool both the CPU and the GPU. I think a similar design with dancases awesomeness would be ... awesome.
    • I still have this idea of a wall mounted A4: take the A4-SFX, and put the CPU section and GPU section next to each other, "like opening a book". This is will be similar in shape as the Sentry or the S4 mini expect with the huge advantage that all heat exchanging surfaces are on one side, allowing flat placement on a closed surface.
     
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  12. Jann5s

    Jann5s [H]Lite

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    Not really, in the current A4-SFX most people use open-fan GPUs without any problems. The proximity of the GPU fans to the side panel means that they actually suck in fresh air from outside and thus create circulation inside the case.
     
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  13. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    raymondo:
    Yes you are right I will think about how adding dust filters.

    Watermelon-:
    I hope I can release it in may 2018

    MIDIBoss:
    The production time from ordering to arrive of A4-SFX is nearly 6 month. 3 month takes to production of the 3M riser. If I use a hard riser I can reduce the time from ordering to arrive to 3.5 month.

    Ca11idus:
    The case is designed to use with two 120mm fans in every use case. The fans will suck in the air inside the case and push them out on the bottom. Fresh air will come in through the top side. This will result in a continuous airflow inside the case and also between GPU and motherboard. In theory it will be possible to use bigger heatsink without fans inside the case and the continuous airflow will semi passive cool the heatsink like in a server case.
    You are right rotating the HSLP-48 will be more effective but the motherboard in my CAD has the socket to close to the bottom to fit the HSLP-48 in this direction.
    I move away from the A4 design because the production time is too long.

    ceski:
    2x 120mm AIO require two cutouts for tubing and pump and the C4-H2O has only one cutout for it.


    Brandonandon:
    You can use three different radiator thickness:

    22mm thick 240mm radiator + 2x 120mm fan with a thickness between 12 and 20mm.
    List of 22mm thick radiators: List

    27mm thick 240mm radiator + 2x 120mm fan with a thickness between 12 and 15mm.
    List of 27mm thick radiators: List

    30mm thick 240mm radiator + 2x 120mm fan with a thickness of 12mm.
    List of 30mm thick radiators: List

    So you can select between 43 different AIO solutions.


    Vlad502:
    Top picture: This is possible out of the box:
    Bottom picture: I will check on a prototype a side panel with vent holes on both sides so I will check the possibility of rotating the psu like in your picture. But the airflow inside the case should provide enough fresh air for the psu also facing the fan to the inside. There is not enough space to mount a radiator on the top side.

    Jonas Melkvist:
    The case will work with blower and axial fan cards. Increasing the width of the case is not an option. With the 240mm AIO you will have a much better cooling option as with the NH-L12S. Furthermore you can simply install better heatsink like the Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP-200 without a fan a cool them semi passive with the two 120mm fans in the bottom.[/SIZE][/B]
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
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  14. bAMtan2

    bAMtan2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I prefer the A4 design. But if you must make a larger case, I recommend supporting 2.5 slot video cards, and larger CPU cooler from Noctua, Silverstone, etc. Congratulations for your new design!
     
  15. Blackreplica

    Blackreplica Limp Gawd

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    dondan

    The case is looking good, and generally I do like it but do please consider also providing accomodation for a second radiator!

    1) Is it at all possible to have provision for another 240mm radiator at the top of the case? It would add a bit more height but it would be super powerful in this configuration

    2) Or perhaps make the case a little bit wider so a GPU 120mm AIO can fit between the GPU backplate and the PSU (the PSU fan can actively cool the GPU Rad

    EIther way, please do consider modifying the case slightly so that it can accomodate a second AIO. It will differentiate your product as well from the many SFF cases out there which can only really properly fit one radiator (corsair ONE being the only exception)
     
  16. galletabah

    galletabah Limp Gawd

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    180° psu please, taking fresh air
     
  17. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Blackreplica:
    If you add a second radiator on top the case size will be 274x322x127,5 this will result in a 11,2L case and this is nearly the same volume as the Ncase M1 that has support for two radiators. This will not make this project unique and could end in a not successful Kickstarter campaign.


    galletabah: This will require also vent holes on the left side of the outer panel. I will check this on my prototype. I have the feeling that this can ruin the cooling principle. The idea is that the fans in the bottom are suck air inside the case and move them out over the bottom side. Fresh air can came trough the topside and has to pass the ITX board and SFX psu. If I add more and more holes to the sides the air will take the easiest way. This will be through the side vent holes and will block the airflow on the CPU heatsink. I will check this on the prototype ;)
     
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  18. Blackreplica

    Blackreplica Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the reply Dan...I can understand your design choice. I much prefer your case to the NCase anyway (which has too messy of an interior layout for my liking). I guess I'll have to go custom waterloop to build in your case if I want to watercool both CPU and GPU

    Anyone got a pump/res combo suggestion which fits below the PSU?:D
     
  19. richiegore

    richiegore Limp Gawd

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    Any reason not to turn the case upside down? Is it just because of the power supply? Looks pretty cool if you want to overclock an 8+ core chip.
     
  20. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    richiegore: The main featur for this is having the front I/O ports on the left or right side depending of is the case on your left or right side on the table.
     
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  21. Tephnos

    Tephnos Limp Gawd

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    Loving the look of this, and sandblasted panels too, which the NCASE couldn't end up doing! I really dislike how easily dirtied looking brushed aluminium gets so this is awesome.

    Agree with comments elsewhere - reverse the PSU if that's how we're doing this. I don't want the fan spinning up for no reason due to hot GPU air.
     
  22. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Vlad502: This is not possible because the I/O mount ports are attached to the outer ring that is part of the complete inner frame.
     
  23. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm a watercooling enthusiast, and I would like to see more features for custom loop watercooling. The radiator area is perfect, but some space to mount a compact pump and reservoir would make this a killer product.
     
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  24. senderson

    senderson n00bie

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    i want it. And i mean NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
     
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  25. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    KazeoHin: I'am not very familar in this sector do you knwo some smal form factor pumps and reservoir for mount points. Maybe I can work something out with EK.
     
  26. richiegore

    richiegore Limp Gawd

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    Sorry, what I meant was why did you not design it pretty much exactly as it is, but with the whole case turned upside so the radiator is on the top? Obviously you would need a cover for the top of the radiator but it wouldn't be that different and maybe it would benefit from hot air rising?
     
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  27. Woxys

    Woxys [H]Lite

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    I like the main concept behind this case, cold air sucked in on one side and hot air exahusted on the other like a perfect sealed duct, but i think the design and the cooling would really take advantage of the Vlad502 first 2 pictures suggestion. The hot air that rises it would be exahusted out at the top and this way the dust can be controlled more (usually the dust falls on the objects so if you suck air from the top it will acumulate more in the case).
     
  28. Smitty2k1

    Smitty2k1 Gawd

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    What a time to be alive!
     
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  29. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Neat, especially this space between the front bezel and side panels as well as the AIO hanging under the case.

    I like the general idea, but there are few things that I'm not so sure about:

    1) GPU hanging upside down, especially when it looks like you can mount quite heavy cards in there. I get that it's because of the clearance for the hoses, but still feels off.

    2) You might want to check if your calculated AIO hoses length is enough for AM4 boards since those might accept only one orientation of the waterblock because of the hoses interfering with memory slots. At least in my X370GTN they do.

    3) Will the 2.5" bracket fit with AIO installed (distance between the hose connectors on AIO may vary) ? One drive fits behind the front panel?
     
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  30. Vlad502

    Vlad502 n00bie

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    Sorry, i deleted my previous post.
    I think io board with power (reset) button can be modular (custom front panels?!), mounted with screws and another side just cover plate mounted same way.
     
  31. sforma

    sforma n00bie

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    dondan , as happy A4 kickstarters supporter & buyer, i would buy this case if it can watercool both GPU and CPU.

    Regards,
     
  32. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    richiegore:
    It is design to also use it in this way, because you can flip the case to use in both orientations. I will make a rendering to make this more clear.

    Woxys:
    We are in temperature ranges where thermal convection has no chance agains the two 120mm fans in the bottom. And I can only say it again, just flip the case an all outer panels and use it with fans sitting on top side ;) I designed it to use it in both orientations

    SaperPL:
    The hard riser is a PCB that is screwed on the case with a PCIe socket with GPU holding clip there is no chance that the GPU sack down. Please give me the tube length of your AIO so I can check it.

    Vlad502:
    At first I also thought about using a cover plate for the I/O to make it more flexible, but I drop this idea for a cleaner look.

    sforma:
    Just use a custome water cooling solution and you can do it ;)
     
    richiegore likes this.
  33. darrpara

    darrpara Gawd

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    Not sure if it is clear from what I am seeing: would this be able to have a AIO cpu cooler and AIO GPU cooler?
     
  34. SticKx911

    SticKx911 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I was hoping for a case with water cooling built in. Like a reservoir or rad built into the frame. I guess that's not a cost effective option since no one else does it either.
     
  35. Calrez

    Calrez n00bie

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    When can we expect a kickstarter for this case tho?
     
  36. incompleteusernam

    incompleteusernam n00bie

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    I like the idea of the case. But instead of having to deal with AIOs, why not just increase the width of the A4 by 30mm to make it compatible with coolers like the Noctua L9, L12, and the new L12S? The A4 was perfect in everything except CPU cooler limitations.
     
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  37. Calysto

    Calysto n00bie

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    It looks good and appears to have a better finish than the A4-SFX, at least from the renders.
    I don't know if having the PSU fan pulling hot hair from the back of the graphics card is a good idea but probably proper testing will clarify that.
     
  38. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Silverstone Tundra TD-03-Slim, 310 mm of thick tubing, same for whole Tundra series. Note the clips attached to the block/pump are on two sides making it possible to mount it on AM4 only in two opposite orientations, one of which faces memory slots.

    http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=598&area=en
     
  39. azagar

    azagar n00bie

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    That 60mm air cpu cooler height restriction. :(

    Maybe the community can compile a theoretical min/max configuration with 60mm coolers. Dan mentioned the C1 in passive mode but that would be 61mm and would require a lot of testing since that seems to be very unlikely to function well with a GPU practically touching it. It seems like 240 AiO for cpu and triple fan open back GPU will be the min/max.
     
  40. Rorschach

    Rorschach Limp Gawd

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    Heee's baaack :cool:

    Excellent ideas dondan !

    Yes, I also subscribe - really hope for dual AIO 120 mm support so there is the option to cool both cpu and gpu.