DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Hello dondan, I found out the v1 after the first kickstarter was over and missed the few samples for sales after. I did not missed this time #212 ! Very happy, the case will be used for a small gaming computer dedicated for a racing simulator I'm building at home...

dondan said:
It depends on 3M. Manufacturing the riser take the biggest part of the time.
Click to expand...

Just a question about the riser, probably already asked a million times... is there any way the small "pcb" part could be black and not green ?

Thanks !
 
LuDo16 said:
Hello dondan, I found out the v1 after the first kickstarter was over and missed the few samples for sales after. I did not missed this time #212 ! Very happy, the case will be used for a small gaming computer dedicated for a racing simulator I'm building at home...



Just a question about the riser, probably already asked a million times... is there any way the small "pcb" part could be black and not green ?

Thanks !
Click to expand...

Dan said that 3M would use a black PCB if Dan ordered at least 10.000 PCIE risers, so the short answer is NO :(
 
Congrats to Dan for another successful kick starter campaign!

I have been thinking about how to build with the v2 case when I get it. One of the build decision will be whether to use a blower style gpu or an open air type with multiple fans. I think someone posted a test before where blower style will have higher gpu temps, open air type will have higher cpu temps. (I'm curious to know if anyone has run into thermal issues from a blower gpu?)

Anyhow, I have also been thinking about how to best use the new 92mm case fan. From Dan's tests, it seemed like the case fan will make a bigger difference with the windowed panels than the perforated panels. And it make sense, most of the intake air will probably escape from the side. I have an idea where using an open air gpu, and a custom shroud over the case fan and direct most the intake air between the protective plastic and the mb. Essentially blowing most of the heat out before it can affect the cpu temp too much.

I don't have the v1, so I'm basing this idea on the photos and videos, might be complete flawed. Still, curious to know what Dan thinks of this idea.
 
rmmdunn99 said:
Guys, I have the Cryorig C7 in my v1 case, it's pretty damn loud. Is this the best cooler for the case?

Is the Noctua l9i any quieter? And is there a notable difference in temps between the two? Or is there another cooler that may be even better.
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Use the fan from the l9i. This will cool approx the same, but make your c7 way more silent. I use it on my lp53
 
A question then: You don't need to buy That Complete I9i cooler to get just the FAN, or...? I read the fan on the I9i is 92x92x14mm... Can I buy any Noctua-fan with those dimensions?
 
LuDo16 said:
Hello dondan, I found out the v1 after the first kickstarter was over and missed the few samples for sales after. I did not missed this time #212 ! Very happy, the case will be used for a small gaming computer dedicated for a racing simulator I'm building at home...



Just a question about the riser, probably already asked a million times... is there any way the small "pcb" part could be black and not green ?

Thanks !
Click to expand...
I just do a cover for the pci riser.
Now I will paint in black and done!
1tJxpZK.jpg
 
OK. now that Kickstarter is done ...offer a black A4 in EU with a nice number under 50. PM me.
 
Does anyone know a good marketplace for 2nd hand parts to these M-itx Chassis?
I've been looking everywhere and anywhere, even for new M-itx boards. They sure are hard to find...

Z97 M-itx 2nd hand doesn't even exist, and its only been 2 years... Any help would be much appreciated!
 
AntaresLight said:
Congrats to Dan for another successful kick starter campaign!

I have been thinking about how to build with the v2 case when I get it. One of the build decision will be whether to use a blower style gpu or an open air type with multiple fans. I think someone posted a test before where blower style will have higher gpu temps, open air type will have higher cpu temps. (I'm curious to know if anyone has run into thermal issues from a blower gpu?)
Click to expand...

Yes - Congratulations Dan on another successful campaign!

AntaresLight, keep in mind that both NVIDIA and AMD will have new GPUs out between now and January 2018 [with launches timed for the holidays; possibly just paper launches but that's another discussion]. Point being the GPU trend is more performance while using less power, so your entire wishlist will probably need an update, even if Dan surprises us by beating the January 2018 goal.

That said, rather than shrouding a fan, an old modder trick is cutting away part of the frame and slapping a plate on it to make a blower - that's how I cool my motherboard MOSFETs since my CPU is under water. The intake side of this fan is open, the exhaust blocked off with a black plate, and as you can see from the dust it moves a lot of air:
https://image.************/eqCGCk/2017_06_28_13_01_51.jpg
This would be ideal for taking in air from between the -A4 case feet, and jetting it across the floor of the case, without too much hassle from power supply cables.
 
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rmmdunn99 said:
Ok thanks, I'll try to order one. How do you attach it to the heatsink? Is there a clip that will work or will I need to use some sort of zip ties or something?
Click to expand...
You could 3d print something, but I use cableties and most others use that as well or rubberbands, string etc
 
Living Weapon said:
Yes - Congratulations Dan on another successful campaign!

AntaresLight, keep in mind that both NVIDIA and AMD will have new GPUs out between now and January 2018 [with launches timed for the holidays; possibly just paper launches but that's another discussion]. Point being the GPU trend is more performance while using less power, so your entire wishlist will probably need an update, even if Dan surprises us by beating the January 2018 goal.

That said, rather than shrouding a fan, an old modder trick is cutting away part of the frame and slapping a plate on it to make a blower - that's how I cool my motherboard MOSFETs since my CPU is under water. The intake side of this fan is open, the exhaust blocked off with a black plate, and as you can see from the dust it moves a lot of air:
https://image.************/eqCGCk/2017_06_28_13_01_51.jpg
This would be ideal for taking in air from between the -A4 case feet, and jetting it across the floor of the case, without too much hassle from power supply cables.
Click to expand...

Living Weapon,

Thanks for sharing. If I understand you correctly, that's similar to what I was thinking of doing. The reason I wanted to direct the air to only in between the mb and the gpu is because one the cpu side, with most itx layout, the rams are blocking the air from the front. On the gpu side, if I use a blower style, it won't help. If I use open-air style it may help a little, but I was basing on someone else's test that with an open-air gpu, cpu will have higher temps and thus need more cooling. Which is why I came up with the "air barrier" idea to cool the space in between. The cables are certainly going to get in the way though. It'll all depends on the setup I get next year of course. Can't wait :)
 
Dan is the one who did the original test finding that having more fans is better for the GPU. He also found that pulling air into the case for the CPU is also best. The reason both these things are true is because putting cool outside air on the heatsink you want to cool will always be best, no matter how hot and stuffy the inside of the case gets.

To relieve the internal temperature you can add an output fan to the new bottom slot in a4v2. Dan did test this configuration in the past and the result wasn't impressive, but more testing can be done to make sure because we know from many tests that simply removing the IO cover lets a lot of hot air out and improves CPU temperatures.

The key thing though is pushing as much cool air as possible onto as big a heatsink as possible. Everything else is secondary. Dan knows how important this is, which is why he recommends the biggest video cards that can fit, and he himself is making the biggest CPU heatsink that can fit.

AntaresLight said:
Living Weapon,

Thanks for sharing. If I understand you correctly, that's similar to what I was thinking of doing. The reason I wanted to direct the air to only in between the mb and the gpu is because one the cpu side, with most itx layout, the rams are blocking the air from the front. On the gpu side, if I use a blower style, it won't help. If I use open-air style it may help a little, but I was basing on someone else's test that with an open-air gpu, cpu will have higher temps and thus need more cooling. Which is why I came up with the "air barrier" idea to cool the space in between. The cables are certainly going to get in the way though. It'll all depends on the setup I get next year of course. Can't wait :)
Click to expand...
 
Has anyone summarized NOT IN THIS THREAD the consensus of the best cooling options for the A4?
Preferably in a few categories such as maximum cooling, quietest, compromise, etc...
I would expect the document to change over time as new things are tried, but it is too hard to go through this thread and find the latest relevant info.

Maybe Dan should host this page or set up his own blog/forum! :)
 
swooby said:
Has anyone summarized NOT IN THIS THREAD the consensus of the best cooling options for the A4?
Preferably in a few categories such as maximum cooling, quietest, compromise, etc...
I would expect the document to change over time as new things are tried, but it is too hard to go through this thread and find the latest relevant info.

Maybe Dan should host this page or set up his own blog/forum! :)
Click to expand...

This topic has been discussed to death and back in this forum. There is no point in making a dedicated post for that as Dan's HSLP-48 will be the best option for this case.

https://hardforum.com/threads/dan-hslp-48-a-powerful-sub-50mm-heatsink.1925480/

This is what we want.

Readily available options are the thermolab lp53 with a low profile fan. The cooljags that are no longer in production with some mods. L9i and C7 are decent too.
 
Philfreeze said:
But you just debunked that yourself with the copy+paste of:
"Air with forced convection
In other words, there's a fan blowing onto the heatsink. Copper heatsink will perform better than aluminium."


My guess as to why aluminium is more common is that it is cheaper, more robust and significantly lighter (which makes is cheaper to transport) while being only marginaly worse than copper.
Click to expand...
dondan said:
Update:

Today I tested the heatsink inside the case again and also did some special tests:

Normal tests:

5820K 6x3,4Ghz - Bench Table
Prime95 v26.6 8K Test – 20min each (AIO 60min)

Heatsink-----------------------Fan-----------Position---Mode-------RPM--------Room Temp-----Core Temp
HSLP-48 Alu (CoolJag)...........TY-100..............under..........suck-in......2400..............25........................68,5°C
HSLP-48 Alu (CoolJag)...........TY-100..............under..........push-out....2400..............25........................68,5°C
HSLP-48 Copper (CoolJag)... .TY-100..............under.........push-out....2400..............25........................69,5°C
HSLP-48 Copper (Lian Li)........TY-100.............under.........push-out.....2400..............25........................71°C
HSLP-48 Alu (Lian Li)...............TY-100.............under.........push-out.....2400..............25........................73°C
Asetek 92mm AIO ...................A9x14...............Top............suck-in.......2200..............25........................74°C


The interesting part of this test is, that the perforce between CoolJag and Lian Li is now very closely. I think the reason for this is
the heat level inside the case. Furthermore this must be also the reason why the the CoolJag alu version is better as the copper version, because
copper absorb heat better as alu. (It could also be that this is a measuring inaccuracy affected by room temp.)
Keep in mind that all tests was not made with the Noctua 120mm fan, because I need to order low profile ram and low profile 8pin ESP connector to fit on my motherboard.


So from now it looks like the HSLP-48 will perform 7-10°C worse inside the A4-SFX. Maybe the 120mm Noctua fan can change this. For the noise level I can say that with the
TY-100 fan on full speed the setup it is far away from being silent. This can be also changed with the Noctua A12-15 fan.



Special tests:

I also did some special tests with a paper covering the bottom and side part of heatsink excepting a hole for the fan. A forum user some pages ago
came with this idea. This solution will reduce the temp for 0.5°C so it looks like the fan does not recycle hot air so a special duct will not help to get better temps.


I also tested the influence of removing the I/O shield on the cooling performance.

5820K 6x3,4Ghz - Bench Table
Prime95 v26.6 8K Test – 20min each

Heatsink-----------------------Fan-----------Position---Mode-------RPM--------Room Temp-----Core Temp
HSLP-48 Alu (CoolJag)...........TY-100..............under..........suck-in......2400..............25........................64,8,0°C (no I/O shield)
HSLP-48 Alu (CoolJag)...........TY-100..............under..........push-out....2400..............25........................67°C (no I/O shield)

As you can see the suck-in mode can benefit from it and temps are 3,7°C lower.
Click to expand...

Well here we go. Who debunked who? I'm no engineer, I don't know why in paper copper looks better but in theory it doesn't perform as well. I was just saying that this topic has been discussed many a times before and the copper base and pipes with alu fins work really well. Check out the HSLP-48 Alu (CoolJag) vs the HSLP-48 Copper (CoolJag) which, unlike what you said, is marginally better than the Copper version.

Debunking is not what I wanting to get at. I just wanted to let people know that I've been through these silly discussions where templars of the holy copper cult swear that copper will perform the best because it is of superior quality and it should conduct heat better. Now the tests were only run for 20 minutes and it may be a different story with more time but that is up to Dondan to test.

Let your temps be low and your sffpc tiny!
 
swooby said:
Has anyone summarized NOT IN THIS THREAD the consensus of the best cooling options for the A4?
Preferably in a few categories such as maximum cooling, quietest, compromise, etc...
I would expect the document to change over time as new things are tried, but it is too hard to go through this thread and find the latest relevant info.

Maybe Dan should host this page or set up his own blog/forum! :)
Click to expand...

That's a good idea! Noctua L9i is the one people prefer. To beat it significantly, you need Dan's cooler or the asetek water cooler. Everyone buying v2 should just get Dan's cooler.
 
Did somebody try a PH-TC12LS CPU Cooler? It's exactly 48 height and has a gap between the heat transfer plate and the fins. I just wonder if there's enough space to squeeze a fan there?
 

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Your pic is my reflection said:
Did somebody try a PH-TC12LS CPU Cooler? It's exactly 48 height and has a gap between the heat transfer plate and the fins. I just wonder if there's enough space to squeeze a fan there?
Click to expand...

No space for a fan under tryed to mod One and i could not use the mounting kit att all after grinding in the CPU plate top.

Dondan tryed it passive without fan
 
my evga 1070 failed during gaming (one of the first 1070s on the market, evga forgot to attach heat spreaders on the memory)
now my evga 1080 failed during gaming (i think - have not tested all components yet in another build)

could be just an evga issue
another thing i'm wondering about is the graphics card is sitting in a unique spot - behind cpu
Maybe cpu heat is going backwards and heating up the graphics card?
For CPU cooling i have lp53, a9x14, 4mm standoffs very much like in this video : youtube watch?v=3hPI9L7c6wQ
i probably will remove the 4mm standoffs as they make the cpu even closer to the gpu and maybe heat is transferring from cpu to graphics card?
 
nekooken said:
Has anyone managed to get a Cooler Master GeminII M5 into their A4? If so, what are the temps like?

I know Dan is also developing a similar cooler, but this one can be had at a local shop for 50 bucks.
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I had that cooler back in my FTZ01, and I'll just throw out there... Its mounting system will make you rip your hair out if you try and fit a fan underneath.
 
Strafer said:
my evga 1070 failed during gaming (one of the first 1070s on the market, evga forgot to attach heat spreaders on the memory)
now my evga 1080 failed during gaming (i think - have not tested all components yet in another build)

could be just an evga issue
another thing i'm wondering about is the graphics card is sitting in a unique spot - behind cpu
Maybe cpu heat is going backwards and heating up the graphics card?
For CPU cooling i have lp53, a9x14, 4mm standoffs very much like in this video : youtube watch?v=3hPI9L7c6wQ
i probably will remove the 4mm standoffs as they make the cpu even closer to the gpu and maybe heat is transferring from cpu to graphics card?
Click to expand...

I think you just got unlucky! :) the temperature of the back of the motherboard tray would probably be 10's of degrees lower than the graphics card itself...
 
Jonas Mellkvist said:
No space for a fan under tryed to mod One and i could not use the mounting kit att all after grinding in the CPU plate top.

Dondan tryed it passive without fan
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that I have to contradict you but Dondan in the referenced post said he used a Scythe SY1012SL12M fan with this cooler.
If there was a cooler that could cool a cpu passively I think there would not be the need for a special cooler Dondan is developing now.
 
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