DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

A 960 Evo is plenty fast for me. Yes you can run a raid 0 with multiple M.2s but honestly the price of them isn't low enough for me to want to raid them as well adding additional points of failure to a system. Some people might want dual m.2s and to that I would totally encourage them to get the Strix z270i but for me it is an extra feature that I will not be using that I don't want to pay a premium for.
 
mcheddadi said:
RAID 0
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Have a look into the bandwidth limitations on the DMI 3.0 link and compare that to how fast a single hight end nvme drive is.

DMI 3.0 bandwidth = 3.93 GB/s

960 pro bandwidth =
Sequential Read Speed 3,500 MB/sec
Sequential Write Speed 2,100 MB/sec

Raid 0 nvme drives is pointless.
 
elgardo said:
I think 3M quality is a Little bit different
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dondan said:
UPDATE:

Here are all the changes for A4-SFX v2 that are already done. Only one thing is on my list to be checked:


cover26jlfd.jpg
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Not convinced about changing the stand-offs for stamped in ones, as others have said, most people won't fit their motherboard more than once. People who are swapping it all the time are enthusiasts and will appreciate the possibility of changing the stand-offs... Unless it is cheaper I would leave them as they are.
 
mcheddadi said:
you don't need 2mm standoff. I tried the lp53 with the default 120mm nexus 7 25m fan and it fit no problems. I mounted it directly to the inside of the side panel. it was 5C cooler than the noctua 92x14mm fan on the lp53
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Can confirm that.

Was running with the Cryoig + TY-100 fan and was getting a max of 71 deg C (prime 95, delidded + liquid metal + no I/O shield + 4mm Standoffs + hifi feet), with "ok" noise levels (but which was SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Cryoig + C7 fan).

I have previously tried AXP-100H MUSCLE (max 87 deg C), and the Nexus 7000 low R2 (max of 76 deg C). Both pre-delids.

Today I swapped to LP53 + NF-A9 (92mm x 25mm fan), and am now getting a max of 64 deg C (prime 95 @ over 30 mins run time) with very impressive low noise levels (noticeably better than the TY-100 fan). To be honest, I can not see how this could be easily improved!
I have tried to capture the sound levels here....



Edit: For whats it worth, if I change the motherboard setting from a "normal" to a very aggressive fan cure you can obviously hear the fan more with the noise level probably about the same as Cryoig + TY-100, but the max temps are now 56 deg C (@ prime for 23 mins). Quite simple, it seems as if airflow wins here.
 
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All your meassurements are welcome :)

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aZfTysWc4dtJC33qkLCjLkhPnzVLtbCtjpxoZeT92ZA/edit#gid=0
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I measured today, if the fan-duct mod has any impact on cooling performence.
I measured a reduction in temperature of 3°C when my NF-A9x14 was spinning at full speed and 4°C when it was equipped with the 7V low.noise.adapter. So I think we can savely say, that a peace of paper can help reducing the temperatures.
I did't measure if there was any increase in noise, but I can safely say that I didn't notice any rise.
 
HoodedHusky said:
Can confirm that.

Was running with the Cryoig + TY-100 fan and was getting a max of 71 deg C (prime 95, delidded + liquid metal + no I/O shield + 4mm Standoffs + hifi feet), with "ok" noise levels (but which was SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Cryoig + C7 fan).

I have previously tried AXP-100H MUSCLE (max 87 deg C), and the Nexus 7000 low R2 (max of 76 deg C). Both pre-delids.

Today I swapped to LP53 + NF-A9 (92mm x 25mm fan), and am now getting a max of 64 deg C (prime 95 @ over 30 mins run time) with very impressive low noise levels (noticeably better than the TY-100 fan). To be honest, I can not see how this could be easily improved!
I have tried to capture the sound levels here....



Edit: For whats it worth, if I change the motherboard setting from a "normal" to a very aggressive fan cure you can obviously hear the fan more with the noise level probably about the same as Cryoig + TY-100, but the max temps are now 56 deg C (@ prime for 23 mins). Quite simple, it seems as if airflow wins here.
Click to expand...


3.137ghz????on your video in real temps. that's some serious underclock.
 
mcheddadi said:
you don't need 2mm standoff. I tried the lp53 with the default 120mm nexus 7 25m fan and it fit no problems. I mounted it directly to the inside of the side panel. it was 5C cooler than the noctua 92x14mm fan on the lp53
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That is interesting.
This was with stock 7mm standoffs?
"nexus 7" - you mean Nexus LOW-7000? that has a 20mm thick fan. How much room is there between the fan and cooler?
How was the noise compared to noctua on load?
 
I would say the MSI Gaming X would be the best from what the cooler looks like.
 
Dan, here is an idea for a variant of the A4-SFX:

In short:
Take the A4-SFX and fold it open (like a book) such that all the hardware is now on one side. The volume is the same, but instead of short and stocky it will be tall and slim.

The longer version:
I was searching for a wall mounted ITX case that is slim and has all components on one side, such that the wall side does not require ventilation. After some searching I found the Lian-Li O5, which at first glance looked perfect. It uses a riser cable to put the GPU next to the ITX mainboard, and has wall mounting and even a nice window. But then I saw the dimensions of the case, and they are HUGE. The O5 is the smallest of the series and it is (W)384mm, (H)390mm, (D)133mm. In other words, the thickness, (D) is more that the A4-SFX, which is just silly. My A4-SFX is perfect for the PC that is in it, but I have another location where I would prefer a wall-mounted variant, and I think designing a slim version of the A4-SFX would be super easy for you. Obviously the hard part would still be funding, manufacturing, delivery etc.

The Sentry S5 and the NFC Mini S4 come very close to the design idea, but they both have their GPU oriented in the wrong direction, such that these cases still require fresh air from both sides. I think the main reason for orienting the GPU like that is because they didn't want to use a 300mm riser cable. But your success has shown that it can be done.

Anyway, just a random brain-fart from a fan.
 
Shaav said:
I would say the MSI Gaming X would be the best from what the cooler looks like.
Click to expand...

Too bad it wouldn't fit in the Dan A4, being a 2.5 slot card, 51mm wide

Next best 1080Ti options for the Dan A4 are the MSI Armor (no backplate or RGB, but has the same PCB as the Gaming X), and the Zotac Amp Edition (has backplate and RGB)
 
Any plans on selling that better centered usb on its own? Given the whole thing is held by one screw.
 
Jann5s said:
Dan, here is an idea for a variant of the A4-SFX:

In short:
Take the A4-SFX and fold it open (like a book) such that all the hardware is now on one side. The volume is the same, but instead of short and stocky it will be tall and slim.

The longer version:
I was searching for a wall mounted ITX case that is slim and has all components on one side, such that the wall side does not require ventilation. After some searching I found the Lian-Li O5, which at first glance looked perfect. It uses a riser cable to put the GPU next to the ITX mainboard, and has wall mounting and even a nice window. But then I saw the dimensions of the case, and they are HUGE. The O5 is the smallest of the series and it is (W)384mm, (H)390mm, (D)133mm. In other words, the thickness, (D) is more that the A4-SFX, which is just silly. My A4-SFX is perfect for the PC that is in it, but I have another location where I would prefer a wall-mounted variant, and I think designing a slim version of the A4-SFX would be super easy for you. Obviously the hard part would still be funding, manufacturing, delivery etc.

The Sentry S5 and the NFC Mini S4 come very close to the design idea, but they both have their GPU oriented in the wrong direction, such that these cases still require fresh air from both sides. I think the main reason for orienting the GPU like that is because they didn't want to use a 300mm riser cable. But your success has shown that it can be done.

Anyway, just a random brain-fart from a fan.
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I was thinking the same thing myself, it's not that big a deal if you orientate the sentry vertically, but if you put it lying down I don't think it's ideal having intakes on opposite sides.
 
I got a decent deal at 300€ including postage, I paid 280 on caseking but got an out is stock email... No original box or number sticker though but I'm very pleased! Silver is less popular though but it's the colour I wanted.
 
I can't decide whether a dynatron t318 with a 25mm noctua or a dynatron t408r1 cut down to 38mm with a 14mm noctua would be better... Both would be with ~3mm standoffs... Anyone have any thoughts?
 
rfarmer said:
I was checking US ebay last week and they had two A4-SFX for $499 and two for $799. The two for $499 are no longer listed but the two at $799 are. I was thinking profit much?
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It's so disheartening. I've been following this thread for a while, looking for one to buy. Can't find a silver one anywhere for a reasonable price.
 
gcj said:
It's so disheartening. I've been following this thread for a while, looking for one to buy. Can't find a silver one anywhere for a reasonable price.
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Search on the country specific eBay sites e.g. eBay.de, most people speak excellent English so you can just ebay message them and ask them if they will post to where you live for an extra bit of money. It is hard to change eBay listings to add international postage when it is already up so just offer to pay the additional postage cost if you win.

I added a German address of someone I know which allowed me to bid but I suppose you could just add a random address of the country it's located in. Just make sure the guy knows your proper address to send it to and uses tracked postage.

Of course there is some risk involved in doing this and eBay may not help you if something goes wrong so be careful.
 
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dondan said:
This isn't possible because I had to make a change on the inner frame.
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dan, what's your opinion of the suggestions to add support for "wider" doors to support bigger coolers inside? imagine it could fit 2.5 slot GPUs and a bigger CPU cooler. is this something worth considering? what are the trades here?
 
bAMtan2 said:
dan, what's your opinion of the suggestions to add support for "wider" doors to support bigger coolers inside? imagine it could fit 2.5 slot GPUs and a bigger CPU cooler. is this something worth considering? what are the trades here?
Click to expand...
To me these types of questions always put me at a strange dilemma. The A4-SFX does not fit 2.5 slot GPUs, it does not allow for water cooling nor overclocking 100W CPUs. However, it does provide performance that comes pretty close at a volume that is nothing short of amazing. I think if you are really asking yourselves these questions you've bought the wrong case.

That said, this is an enthusiast forum, and I do understand the unsatisfiable need to want more using less. If nobody ask these questions, maybe Dan wouldn't even have started this amazing project.
 
I have a little project in hands, I'm planning on getting liquid cooling inside a4-sfx.

The goal is to fit it in 47mm of total height.


I've found all the parts on internet!!:

· Rad: 106x81x25

1.jpg

It can be modified to be to be thinner by cutting the metal bezel, but it fits as it is.
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...oling-system-devices/1358964_32263003396.html

There is a silverstone rad that's slimmer (22mm) and bigger that may fit over the ram using a smaller fan:
td03-slim-34right-top.jpg

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=598&area=en


· Fan: 80x80x10mm fan

1.jpg

It fit as it is, but Im planning on cutting all the plastic housing to insert it in the metal bezel of the rad to save some mm for better breathing. Ty100 may fit also modding it.
Cc.porsche.com/icc_euro/ccCall.do?rt=1490866599&screen=1920x1080&userID=SGS&lang=sp&PARAM=parameter_internet_sp&ORDERTYPE=991110&MODELYEAR=2018&hookURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.porsche.com%2fspain%2fmodelstart%2f



· Cpu Block: 40x40x10mm

1.jpg

I've found this block, it's made out of copper, so it can be used with liquid metal thermal paste. There are a few better 10mm cpu blocks out there, atached to liquid pump kits, but this one is sold separately,
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/For-...ics-GPU-Endothermic-Head-Hot/32687537364.html

----------------------------------
Total height: 25+10+10=45mm

It fits over the cpu




· Pump:

1.jpg

The pump can fit below the cpu behing the power supply's cables.
I'm researching for the better pump, I think that anyone may fit.


-------------------------------------------

Notes:

· Extra milimeters are used for the cpu block mount, so no milimeters left,
· Using a naked cpu may save 1 or 2 mm more.
· Inserting the fan in the rad bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm or simply using a gpu fan.
· Cutting the rads metal bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm (or fitting silversonte 22mm rad)



What do you think??
 
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i though about something similar, but after some research, i realized that 80/90 mm rads are not enough for a 95w cpu... nevermind a gpu or noise levels...
 
pedrofan said:
I have a little project in hands, I'm planning on getting liquid cooling inside a4-sfx.

The goal is to fit it in 47mm of total height.


I've found all the parts on internet!!:

· Rad: 106x81x25

1.jpg

It can be modified to be to be thinner by cutting the metal bezel, but it fits as it is.
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...oling-system-devices/1358964_32263003396.html

There is a silverstone rad that's slimmer (22mm) and bigger that may fit over the ram using a smaller fan:
td03-slim-34right-top.jpg

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=598&area=en


· Fan: 80x80x10mm fan

1.jpg

It fit as it is, but Im planning on cutting all the plastic housing to insert it in the metal bezel of the rad to save some mm for better breathing. Ty100 may fit also modding it.
Cc.porsche.com/icc_euro/ccCall.do?rt=1490866599&screen=1920x1080&userID=SGS&lang=sp&PARAM=parameter_internet_sp&ORDERTYPE=991110&MODELYEAR=2018&hookURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.porsche.com%2fspain%2fmodelstart%2f



· Cpu Block: 40x40x10mm

1.jpg

I've found this block, it's made out of copper, so it can be used with liquid metal thermal paste. There are a few better 10mm cpu blocks out there, atached to liquid pump kits, but this one is sold separately,
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/For-...ics-GPU-Endothermic-Head-Hot/32687537364.html

----------------------------------
Total height: 25+10+10=45mm

It fits over the cpu




· Pump:

1.jpg

The pump can fit below the cpu behing the power supply's cables.
I'm researching for the better pump, I think that anyone may fit.


-------------------------------------------

Notes:

· Extra milimeters are used for the cpu block mount, so no milimeters left,
· Using a naked cpu may save 1 or 2 mm more.
· Inserting the fan in the rad bezel may save another 1 or 2 mmor simply using a gpu fan.
· Cutting the rads metal bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm (or fitting silversonte 22mm rad)



What do you think??
Click to expand...
I love the idea, I hope you try it out.
 
Pantera_666 said:
i though about something similar, but after some research, i realized that 80/90 mm rads are not enough for a 95w cpu... nevermind a gpu or noise levels...
Click to expand...
I don't think so, it is the average size of the heatsinks that we are using, even though, there is a bigger silverstone rad that fits over the ram. Maybe some vendor can do a 100x100x20mm rad or so to fit better.

Remember that water transmits heat 20 times faster than gases, so it is more efficient.
 
You may want to try with stock C7 with the original cryorig fan, then add a noctua F12 outside the case, should get 35-40C idle, ~50-60C with normal load, and 70C at load, and should still be relatively inaudible. Though it won't score in the looks department. Not sure how it works, but temps with a single fan, no matter what size or speed, still gives terrible results. ( and room temp is 28C)
 
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What do you guys think about the dimensions of the AMD Wraith Stealth cooler? I've only read about the Wraith Spire but that one is simply too big. Can't seem to find any info regarding it's size :/
 
Specs:
  • i7-4790k
  • LP53 + NF-A9x14
  • 16gb ram
  • ROG Impact VI
  • GTX 1070 FE
  • m.2 ssd 128gb
  • SSD 480gb
  • 450W PSU
C7 vs LP53 + NF - A9x14
kRfdxmr.jpg


Zip Ties for mounting NF - A9x14 on LP53
jpR31Acg.png


Vertical Orientation
09HZ51r.png

  • Mounted Heatpipes in a Vertictal orientation, which people appear to have been getting the best results with, however I don't know if in my case this could be a problem - because I have components blocking the lower region of the MOBO.
  • Left is my mobo, Right is a mobo from a youtube video by BLIX

Thoughts
Here are my results from some testing over the weekend, however, they are a bit varied, not really "concrete" idle and load temps - I was too lazy for that, sorry. :)
  • If you ask me today if LP53 is worth it? I really do not know. My results indicate below that the C7 + Noctua fan might be a better option?
  • However, I think a lot of this has to do with my ROG motherboard - I get the feeling that the heat might be getting caught by the component below the heat-pipes.

Open Test Bench - Bios Temps
BDCx9uO.png



Please note that these temps can't represent "Real World Performance", I mostly just wanted to get an overview of the temperatures quickly - all these benchmarks are taken in the following way:
  • 5 min
  • Open Test Bench
  • Idle temp in bios
  • Bios reset, Ram upped to 2400mhz
oc6R27K.png


LP53 Vertical
cPaqJ9t.png


LP53 Horizontal
m5Xkt0U.jpg


Stock Intel, Cryorig C7 & LP53 + NF A9x14
HYm25Oy.png



Sound Levels
Some notes about the noise during the bios temp benchmarks:
  • LP53 + NF A9x14 (quietest)
  • C7 (slightly higher)
  • Stock Intel (loudest)

Mass Effect: Andromeda Benchmark - Thermal Paste Temps
oQ9fAL8.png


  • These benchmarks are benchmarked with all components inside the Dan SFX A4 case with various types of thermal pastes. My application of the paste can certainly have influenced the results, but so far I have had the best temps with NT-H1. All were taken in Mass Effect: Andromeda MP menu.

bxt4qiNg.png


Additional Thoughts
ksLzBH4.jpg

(These are not my benchmarks, taken from the forum here) :)
  • Not really sure how these results have been so varied between the C7 and LP53 + Noctua fan as shown in the table above
  • But again as mentioned previously, it might be related to the layout of my particular mobo
  • One thing I can say though is that the A9x14 is much quieter than the stock C7 fan :)
 
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