DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

[drklu]

I just meant it had an on board amp, which I don't see on the strix

 

[ultraman982]

Is it known that M.2s mounted on the back will have issues due to the heat? Or are we just making assumptions?

Are there any front mounted M.2 Skylake motherboards?

 

[Calrez]

no they aren't mini itx skylake boards that support that but there are for atx ones
front m2 on mini itx it's a new thing that came with kabylake mobos

 

[akhilv1]

Is it known that M.2s mounted on the back will have issues due to the heat? Or are we just making assumptions?

Are there any front mounted M.2 Skylake motherboards?

Overheating has only been seen with m.2 ports that sit directly under the GPU, so both ports on the Strix Z270i should be fine.

 

[akhilv1]

I just meant it had an on board amp, which I don't see on the strix

The Strix is also missing the extended vrm phases that the impact would have, but that's not a big deal since it doesn't affect overclocking much, and it's all around a bad idea to OC in the A4.

 

[ahmedelamin_]

2 questions - Has anyone come across any good carry bag that would provide enough protection to carry this case in daily?
Secondly, would you guys wait for the 1080ti, settle for a 1080, or get a Titan X? (its for rendering and 3d creation not really gaming.

 

[danger]

Talk about disappointment when finally Kaby Lake arrived with pricing and Asus Strix Z270I Gaming MB was missing in action
It looks really good though and I guess there are some weeks before we finally will get our cases so Asus got some time to release it.

That board is $180. Steep. You can thank RGB for that. I hope ASUS puts out an ITX Z270 that is more reasonably priced.

 

[Pantera_666]

2 questions - Has anyone come across any good carry bag that would provide enough protection to carry this case in daily?
Secondly, would you guys wait for the 1080ti, settle for a 1080, or get a Titan X? (its for rendering and 3d creation not really gaming.

Bag??? OMG... Just ANY backpack!!! We are talking about the A4 my brother

Titan XP now, or 1080ti Kingpin (or equivalent...) later. I predict thoose will perform almost the same just like old Titan X and 980ti Kinping (or equivalent, again...)

Another option is the good old "wait for vega"...... [insert facepalm here]

 

[raildex1]

Bag??? OMG... Just ANY backpack!!! We are talking about the A4 my brother

Titan XP now, or 1080ti Kingpin (or equivalent...) later. I predict thoose will perform almost the same just like old Titan X and 980ti Kinping (or equivalent, again...)

Another option is the good old "wait for vega"...... [insert facepalm here]

He wants a nice padded bag - otherwise you may dent the case if you drop the bag lazily.

I dunno yet - haven't seen any good ones.

 

[akhilv1]

2 questions - Has anyone come across any good carry bag that would provide enough protection to carry this case in daily?
Secondly, would you guys wait for the 1080ti, settle for a 1080, or get a Titan X? (its for rendering and 3d creation not really gaming.

My reason for downsizing from my NCase M1 is that the A4 is a lot smaller. When I fly home for break, I have to put my NCase in my suitcase and it's still a bit of a pain to take to LAN parties. The A4 should fit perfectly fine on my backpack.

 

[Jirbin]

There are also some great camera bag that would surely secure a a4 sfx inside. =)

 

[drklu]

wahaha was making a bag that fit the ncase and dan case iirc, has an insert.

 

[illram]

The main reason to wait for Vega is...that is probably when the Ti will drop.

 

[ranix]

That Asus Z270I strix really looks like the perfect choice for this case.
2xM.2 in the front and all.

1 question, If I go for a 6700 cpu will I Still have the New pcie line for 2 m.2 ssd?
Or do I need to use à 7700 cpu?

Seems like the 7700 add nothing that intérest me compare to the 6700.

 

[akhilv1]

That Asus Z270I strix really looks like the perfect choice for this case.
2xM.2 in the front and all.

1 question, If I go for a 6700 cpu will I Still have the New prie line for 2 m.2 ssd?
Or do I need to go use à 7700 cpu?

Seems like the 7700 add nothing that intérest me compare to the 6700.

We don't have enough information on that yet, but I would assume you would still have both m.2 slots because the additional pcie lanes are coming from the PCH and not the CPU. The only thing you would be missing out on is 4k streaming due to the hardware decoder built onto kaby lake.

 

[repentsinner]

We don't have enough information on that yet, but I would assume you would still have both m.2 slots because the additional pcie lanes are coming from the PCH and not the CPU. The only thing you would be missing out on is 4k streaming due to the hardware decoder built onto kaby lake.

Doesn't the 4K decoding only affect IGP though? Presumably nobody will not be running an large-ish AIB GPU in the A4-SFX..

 

[repentsinner]

In the interest of dubiously conducted science for absolut_zero who was asking about NF-A9x14 vs. NF-B9 redux-1600, here's a bunch of thermal testing. TLDR- The NF-B9 redux-1600 is far quieter at full tilt, and keeps the temps about the same. IMO well worth the $11USD additional, if you're after a quiet build.

Note that all tests were not performed in an A4-SFX, so expect the results to change when the components are installed in the chassis. I ran all the tests within ~40 minutes of each other, so the ambient temperature might have drifted a degree or two. I wasn't very thorough to ensure that p95 was on the same stage of testing when I took each measurement, and I have subsequently noticed that the results change a little depending on what p95 is doing. Maybe this invalidates all the results, use your judgement.

I originally installed the NH-L9i with the main axis of the fins running front to back. Some thermal imaging revealed that the PCH heatsink is pretty hot though, so I thought I'd try rotating the CPU cooler 90° to get some air flowing out in that direction.

Summary:

• NF-A9x14 top speed is ~1000rpm faster than the NF-B9 redux-1600, and is quite loud at full. Even at the same speed the A9 sounds louder and slightly 'less pleasant' (higher pitched, a little rougher).
• At full tilt for both fans (2600rpm for A9 and 1600rpm for B9), the fans perform more-or-less the same from a cooling perspective.
• Rotating the CPU cooler to dump air on the PCH doesn't seem to make much difference within my ability to measure effectively.
• I suspect I need to learn how to use p95 better to make sure the workload is more accurately the same when capturing results for each test.

 

[DrFino]

Overheating has only been seen with m.2 ports that sit directly under the GPU, so both ports on the Strix Z270i should be fine.

The problem with a back mounted M.2 in the A4 is that it is sitting between the mobo and the GPU with relatively little air flow. I could definitely see them getting pretty hot between there.

 

[akhilv1]

The problem with a back mounted M.2 in the A4 is that it is sitting between the mobo and the GPU with relatively little air flow. I could definitely see them getting pretty hot between there.

I think it should be fine. The rear m.2 doesn't have any airflow in my current NCase either and I've never experienced overheating on my 950 pro.

 

[akhilv1]

Doesn't the 4K decoding only affect IGP though? Presumably nobody will not be running an large-ish AIB GPU in the A4-SFX..

I don't know how exactly the decoding is supposed to work but all I've heard about it so far is that kaby lake is a requirement and that it's some kind of hardware based DRM. I'm thinking that they're just using some kind of physical validation that's built onto the CPU rather than decoding on the IGP, and the decoding should directly transfer over to the add in card as long as you're running kaby lake.

 

[ahmedelamin_]

There are also some great camera bag that would surely secure a a4 sfx inside. =)

That't actually a good idea. With the amount people will be spending on the case + internal components (up to around £2500) I'm sure there will be a market for a custom carry case specifically for this case.

 

[Hotshot619]

I'm probably going to buy something like the newly introduced AOC I1601FWUX and get a custom made bag with foam cutouts to take it all traveling. Toss in a 60% mech keyboard and a small mouse and I'll have the ability to be fully mobile without having to sacrifice pretty much anything.

 

[CrazyManCan]

Dan, will you be able to give us the shipping order for kick starters this weekend?

 

[absolut_zero]

In the interest of dubiously conducted science for absolut_zero who was asking about NF-A9x14 vs. NF-B9 redux-1600, here's a bunch of thermal testing. TLDR- The NF-B9 redux-1600 is far quieter at full tilt, and keeps the temps about the same. IMO well worth the $11USD additional, if you're after a quiet build.

Note that all tests were not performed in an A4-SFX, so expect the results to change when the components are installed in the chassis. I ran all the tests within ~40 minutes of each other, so the ambient temperature might have drifted a degree or two. I wasn't very thorough to ensure that p95 was on the same stage of testing when I took each measurement, and I have subsequently noticed that the results change a little depending on what p95 is doing. Maybe this invalidates all the results, use your judgement.

I originally installed the NH-L9i with the main axis of the fins running front to back. Some thermal imaging revealed that the PCH heatsink is pretty hot though, so I thought I'd try rotating the CPU cooler 90° to get some air flowing out in that direction.

Summary:

• NF-A9x14 top speed is ~1000rpm faster than the NF-B9 redux-1600, and is quite loud at full. Even at the same speed the A9 sounds louder and slightly 'less pleasant' (higher pitched, a little rougher).
• At full tilt for both fans (2600rpm for A9 and 1600rpm for B9), the fans perform more-or-less the same from a cooling perspective.
• Rotating the CPU cooler to dump air on the PCH doesn't seem to make much difference within my ability to measure effectively.
• I suspect I need to learn how to use p95 better to make sure the workload is more accurately the same when capturing results for each test.

Excellent comparison. I wasn't expecting the comparison to be this detailed, specifically with the addition of the Flir thermal images. I'm also flattered that you mentioned my name in this review. I asked for a comparison not just for my interest but for all those who are interested with the Noctua NH-L9i cooler because its fan can be swapped easily.

With the result from your review and your opinion, the NF-B9 redux-1600 is the best alternative fan for NH-L9i specially if someone wants a quiet cpu cooler.

Thank you very much and kudos for an awesome job!

 

[Blackreplica]

Full details on the Strix z270I board is up on the asus product page

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-Strix-Z270I-Gaming/

I was wondering a few things though:

1) Can you RAID drives used in both M2 slots on this motherboard? Edit: checked the product page again, yes you can. How fully SICK it would be running 2 x 960 pros in RAID 0 in a Dan A4!
2) Is there a way to make the usb 3.1 front panel header work with the front type A port of the Dan A4? An adapter of some kind maybe?

 

[FISCHER]

Best L9i combo is with the 92mm be quiet silent wings 2 fan 1800rpm has better static pressure cant beleive no1 has tried it. Not only better performance than any noctua fan but also deadly silent.

Where can I find this fan in the US?

Is there an alternative fan that puts out the same amount?

 

[OmenemO]

I was wondering a few things though:

1) Can you RAID drives used in both M2 slots on this motherboard? Edit: checked the product page again, yes you can. How fully SICK it would be running 2 x 960 pros in RAID 0 in a Dan A4!

Just one M.2 card is saturating the DMI 3.0 link bandwidth, running 2 in raid 0 won't gain you any speed.

 

[Chief-hat]

Best L9i combo is with the 92mm be quiet silent wings 2 fan 1800rpm has better static pressure cant beleive no1 has tried it. Not only better performance than any noctua fan but also deadly silent.

I'm not sure that's completely accurate, maybe I'm missing something?

It seems that for the Be Quiet SILENT WINGS 2 | 92mm PWM (link) the Air pressure is 1.98 (mm H2O), this while the Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan (link) has Static Pressure of 2,28 mm H₂O.

I would agree that the listed sound volume is lower for the BQ, but the listed pressure is higher for the Noctua.

Personally, I've invested in the L9i heatsink and swapped out the bundled NF-A9x14 PWM (14 mm) fan for the NF-A9 PWM (25 mm) fan. I'm still waiting for delivery of the second fan, so I don't have any performance/sound comparisons yet.

 

[akhilv1]

Full details on the Strix z270I board is up on the asus product page
2) Is there a way to make the usb 3.1 front panel header work with the front type A port of the Dan A4? An adapter of some kind maybe?

theres a regular header on the board as well so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[l1ghts]

Responding to two questions:

My 850 Evo 1TB tops out at around 49C in my Node 202. Sits at the back of the mITX board with relatively no airflow. A bit hot for my taste, but so far seems fine.

I also carry/bike around my Node 202 semi-daily in a LBB Peloton backpack, along with a CM Storm Quickfire TK, mouse, mousepad, headphones, 3D mouse, and GeChic portable monitor. I don't think you're really going to find a practical bag for the A4 and the rest of your gear, since it's still comparatively a lot of stuff, so I was happy that the Peloton happened to work well. It just barely fits everything in there with room at the front for cables. This is probably the first time I've come to appreciate the sternum and waist strap on a backpack though. The Dan A4 would be a dream case for me since it isn't as wide as the Node 202 and would create sort of a "tube" cavity in the bag, and I could then just stuff all my peripherals down there. Right now everything just sort of rides on top, but close enough that I can close the rolltop and be mostly confident with it. Looking to get the A4 eventually to make my life easier when I need the firepower.

 

[SFF-FAN]

In the interest of dubiously conducted science for absolut_zero who was asking about NF-A9x14 vs. NF-B9 redux-1600, here's a bunch of thermal testing. TLDR- The NF-B9 redux-1600 is far quieter at full tilt, and keeps the temps about the same. IMO well worth the $11USD additional, if you're after a quiet build.

Thank you for this comparison. Will definitely swap for a 25mm fan.
Cloud anyone make a comparison between these three fans?
- NF-B9 redux-1600 PWM
- NF-A9 PWM
- Silent Wings 2 92mm, PWM

This would help a lot!

 

[spda242]

That board is $180. Steep. You can thank RGB for that. I hope ASUS puts out an ITX Z270 that is more reasonably priced.

Yeah, RGB lightning, "love" to pay for that reminds me of when I bought my TV, had to waste lot of money on features that I didn't want like 3D, DVR functionality etc just to get a good one.

 

[Aircoookie]

Yeah, RGB lightning, "love" to pay for that reminds me of when I bought my TV, had to waste lot of money on features that I didn't want like 3D, DVR functionality etc just to get a good one.

I also can't understand the fact why consumers are willing to pay almost double just because of 5 multicolor LEDs and some crappy configuration software, although it is so easy to DIY a better RGB solution (thats if you really need it) for less than $10... It's not entirely the manufacturers fault if this is what people want to buy, and us enthusiasts are the one who have to pay a premium for s**t we don't need.

 

[Jonas Mellkvist]

I agree that it's better to just ignore a post if you're just going to be a dick to the person.
It's a frustration thing, and noob is one of the more tame things someone could call you when annoyed


To be fair that's not what Jonas is asking, I think.
He's asking if an open/ non blower cooler will increase CPU temp, and that chart doesn't really address that.
I'm not actually sure if dondan has published info on that specifically, now that I think about it

You understand My question perfect.

Do the open Air design on Gpu increase temp on CPU and other components in the case ?

Thats why many use blower designs in small Cases to get the heat out.

 

[Blackreplica]

Paul's Hardware briefly introduces the Strix Z270I in his Asus booth coverage, at the 6 minute mark

Based on what I'm seeing, the RGB LEDs are unlikely to shine through the side panel since they appear to be mounted behind the board itself

 

[mirgus]

You understand My question perfect.

Do the open Air design on Gpu increase temp on CPU and other components in the case ?

Thats why many use blower designs in small Cases to get the heat out.

Never experienced a case, where an blower cooler could perform better then an normal custom cooler. Even without case fans

 

[Jonas Mellkvist]

Never experienced a case, where an blower cooler could perform better then an normal custom cooler. Even without case fans

Ofc will the Gpu temp be lower with a Open air design then the Blower card.

But Open air leave alot of heat in the Case and this heat must go throw the case up to the top and out and this must do that other components heats up.

A blower card get the heat out directly in the back and dont get dump in the case at all.

 

[mirgus]

What other components? The GPU is alone in its chamber

 

[akhilv1]

You understand My question perfect.

Do the open Air design on Gpu increase temp on CPU and other components in the case ?

Thats why many use blower designs in small Cases to get the heat out.

I would think that the difference would be negligible since the GPU and CPU are in basically different chambers with very little space for the air to pass through to the other side. Most open air cards end up blowing hot air through the top so most of it should be vented off the top.

 

[repentsinner]

Thank you for this comparison. Will definitely swap for a 25mm fan.
Cloud anyone make a comparison between these three fans?
- NF-B9 redux-1600 PWM
- NF-A9 PWM
- Silent Wings 2 92mm, PWM

This would help a lot!

If someone wants to source and/or send me a Silent Wings 2 92mm, I'll happily add it to the comparison list

They just don't seem readily available in the US, and brief searching puts them in the $30-40 range to land one here. Compared to the already-quite-excellent NF-B9 redux-1600 at $11 shipped, seems like we're venturing way into diminishing returns territory here. Maybe in other markets this pricing/availability relationship is flipped?