DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

[mrbunwah]

I have to say, I think it actually looks rather nice. That said, I wonder if the front edge could match the case profile (rounded corners), while the rear edge is kept matching the rear profile (with its angles).

 

[Hanakuso]

Not sure if it's allowed to be posted, but i'm going to sell off a lot of my compatible coolers and fans for the A4. I'll make a FS thread tonight or tomorrow.

I have the Noctua L9i, Cooltek LP53, Cryorig C7 heatsinks & Gentle Typhoon, San Ace, Delta 92mm fans

 

[Blackreplica]

Those side panels look awesome!! Any idea when you might finalize the design and start selling these?

Seeing it in the flesh though, i feel a flush mount & drilled (for ventilation) side panel may look better for this case. The only bummer about that is that you'd have to use plastic and not glass for the side window

 

[makenick]

Instead of devoting time to a new mount for the C7, it may be more beneficial to drill vent holes along the bottom of the case and mount upward facing slim case fans to breath fresh air onto the entire motherboard, video card, and m.2 SSD.

That´s the mod I will do. As far as I know only a 92 mm fan will fit. Since I am not planning to install a SFX-L PSU 25 mm height fan should be possible. I try to direct the air flow to the important points, still not sure how to do.

 

[Aircoookie]

dondan Can you check how the glass panel affects GPU temps/clocks/fps?

 

[dondan]

I am currently in the process of validating this.

 

[promaty]

Can somebody explain the point of the glass panels? More bulky + worse cooling just so you can see the components better? Don't know about you guys, but when I use my PC I usually look at the monitor, not the case..

 

[makenick]

A question of like and dislike, I usually don't look at the wheels of my car, nevertheless I bought expensive ones

Can somebody explain the point of the glass panels? More bulky + worse cooling just so you can see the components better? Don't know about you guys, but when I use my PC I usually look at the monitor, not the case..

 

[Deleted member 288494]

Can somebody explain the point of the glass panels? More bulky + worse cooling just so you can see the components better? Don't know about you guys, but when I use my PC I usually look at the monitor, not the case..

Says a guy buying a €230,- case...

 

[cowsgomoo2]

Can somebody explain the point of the glass panels? More bulky + worse cooling just so you can see the components better? Don't know about you guys, but when I use my PC I usually look at the monitor, not the case..

Not admiring your PC is a sin.

 

[rude]

Dan,

Am I understanding this right, you ordered additional cases over and above the kick starter campaign in order to sell them early Jan/Feb once the Kickstarter campaign has been shipped?

Wouldn't the extra load then be responsible for the later ship times on the Kickstarter campaign?

Just want to clarify here as I am a bit confused here regarding these practices.

Thanks,

 

[ranix]

Project distribution is not linéar.
It s not because you need 3 months to make 1000 cases that you will need 6 to make 2000.

Basically the extra case he made did not change anything regarding the schedule.

 

[JackGLemmon]

Can somebody explain the point of the glass panels? More bulky + worse cooling just so you can see the components better? Don't know about you guys, but when I use my PC I usually look at the monitor, not the case..

We need dust filter sides to put into our new beautiful builds. They could either magnetic with adhesive steel bars or ones that snap-in to the hole pattern on the sides. Glass can come any day. I am not sure the glass is going to be a big seller with the current Dancase A4 buyers as it makes the case much larger.

 

[JoeH823]

I suspect dust filters would kill cooling performance in a case this small.

 

[amvoith]

how much extra room does the window panels add for cpu cooler and ram height?

 

[ImmenseBrick]

Wow, I have been hunting for ages for my perfect itx build and while I unfortunately missed the Kickstarter, I will buy one of these puppies ASAP. The glass version looks amazing, I need this case yesterday!

 

[vipz]

how much extra room does the window panels add for cpu cooler and ram height?

With your own standoffs, as much as you want

I'm now imagining 100mm+ standoffs and towers on both CPU and GPU

 

[nekooken]

On the subject of dust filters, just thinking out loud here but would it be a silly idea to just put the filters directly over the fans and let the positive air pressure keep the rest of the dust away? I attached a quick mockup showing what I mean.

Again, just a thought..

 

[mirgus]

there should be at least a little space between filters and fan , so that they dont touch each other.
I prefer cleaning my case ones in a year then having the pc noisier then necessary. This case is so little, it should be easy to clean it with some compressed air.

 

[Blackreplica]

Bah..when it gets dusty, its time to upgrade the internals anyway

 

[promaty]

Bah..when it gets dusty, its time to upgrade the internals anyway

Also, dust filters have to be periodically cleaned as well, no? I personally just blow some compressed air about ~once a year, seems like much less effort.

 

[bAMtan2]

On the subject of dust filters, just thinking out loud here but would it be a silly idea to just put the filters directly over the fans and let the positive air pressure keep the rest of the dust away?

this is not done. at some point in the 50s or 60s somebody probably tried it and it didn't work I think fans don't work well when the input is restricted, for starters

 

[dumplestilskin]

Has anybody considered getting a Noctua NH-L9i and replacing the 14mm fan with a 25mm fan? It would be 48mm tall which is the max spec. The 25mm fan could run at lower rpm and still have similar performance as the 14mm. I currently have the Cryorig C7 and don't love the noise level.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Here is a small preview how the A4-SFX Window Kit will looks like. I attached the acryl version. Later you will see also pictures of the tempered glass version.

Is this a joke? So you make a hole, put stand-offs and screw a randomly cut glass piece on top?

This has to be the worst side panel idea i have yet to see. By far.

Even more so because the glass? panels dont even resemble the shape of the case.

Jeeez christ. A complete disgrace

 

[pendragon1]

Is this a joke? So you make a hole, put stand-offs and screw a randomly cut glass piece on top?

This has to be the worst side panel idea i have yet to see. By far.

Even more so because the glass? panels dont even resemble the shape of the case.

Jeeez christ. A complete disgrace

so you don't like it, no need to be rude about it. I see you in all the sff threads spouting off and being rude not constructive and so I ask again; since you seem to know better, whens you sff case coming out?

and dan I like the panels and how the glass angles match the pull tabs at the back.

 

[Chapeau]

I have to say I don't love the window kit panel shape.

But I totally see why it is arranged like it is to promote cooling airflow and to reference the angles on the rear of the case.
There would be issues with spacing the entire side panel off to open a cooling gap, or doing recesses around the clear panel.

Gotta compromise somewhere!!

 

[cowsgomoo2]

Is this a joke? So you make a hole, put stand-offs and screw a randomly cut glass piece on top?

This has to be the worst side panel idea i have yet to see. By far.

Even more so because the glass? panels dont even resemble the shape of the case.

Jeeez christ. A complete disgrace

That's Lian Li's design though. Check their chassis list.

 

[dondan]

Is this a joke? So you make a hole, put stand-offs and screw a randomly cut glass piece on top?

This has to be the worst side panel idea i have yet to see. By far.

Even more so because the glass? panels dont even resemble the shape of the case.

Jeeez christ. A complete disgrace

The design isn't final. What you are see is only a sample to test everything. If you or somebody else have a idea in mind for a better looking design help me to make it better. You have now the chance to share your ideas and make it real.


@All: Later this day I will release the results of the window test. I also plan to offer a drawing from the side that everyone can easily edit with paint or photoshop to show is his idea.

 

[mirgus]

i am so hyped for this case i cant wait to mod it and install the hardware

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Will share my ideas as soon as i have inet at home (migrating atm). Hate typing on the phone.

 

[mirgus]

Am i the only one who is using the case as an excuse the upgrade the hardware ? I have to swith my Sapphire 390 against an other graphic card because its too big never thought thats a thing

 

[EdZ]

On the subject of dust filters, just thinking out loud here but would it be a silly idea to just put the filters directly over the fans and let the positive air pressure keep the rest of the dust away? I attached a quick mockup showing what I mean.

Again, just a thought..
View attachment 12283

The main reason not to is filter restriction: the larger the filter area is, the lower the overall restriction of air passing through. This is why filters for air handling systems have that 'concertina' shape, to fit the largest fitler surface area in the smallest space. Putting the filter over just the fan makes it the smallest possible filter, and thus the most restrictive possible filter.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

OK my internet is back. Sorry but I refuse to post anything bigger than 10 words on a phone, it is too painfully slow. At 10wpm (on a phone... that would be tops for me) I'd rather commit seppuku.

On topic:

The A4-SFX, regardless of what I may think of its function and whether it is my cup of tea or not, is a beauty. It is a simple yet elegant design built by a company known for its craftmanship. With that said, though, Lian Li seem to employ monkeys as their designers which makes it hilarious that they have the technology, tools and professionals to build unique products but have shit-ass designers that ruin everything and have never used a computer themselves. There is no other way of understanding their poor thought-process on any of their recent cases. They always lack something. Always. I digress though...


Why is that window design the worst I have ever seen?

a) The shape has nothing in common with the original case. Nothing. Somebody said that "the shape resembles the stabs on the back of the case", which makes 0 sense at all. Simply put: the stabs on the panels aren't "part of the design". They are there simply because you need to be able to remove the panels somehow. So, if you go with push-pins (as the A4 does, or the M1) you need to be able to pull the panel from somewhere, and thus the stab is something mandatory. But it isn't part of the design itself, it is something required for anyone to use the case. You wouldn't put them if the panels were screwed, or a different method of attaching the panels to the chasis was used.

So, why would you resemble something that has nothing to do with the design? You simply wouldn't. And why, for the love of god, you wouuld go as far as to put that angled cut on the front of the case, destroying the precious round shape of the facade?

b) Stand-offs? On window? That has to be the first. And on a high-end beautiful case? That for sure is a first.

Windows aren't mounted on stand-offs for obvious reasons. They protrude and destroy the aesthetics of the case. Its a shitty implementation. More so on a small tiny case, because the protrusion is even more apparent. Heck the case becomes... like 10% bigger? More?

----

I do understand why whoever designed this went that route... it is the easiest to make a quick buck. But you can't compromise on things like this. The window either goes along the design queues of the case or you don't sell one. That simple. I understand that air comes in from the sides, so you either have perforated panels or... you find a third option. Maybe you could have the whole side be made of glass and, with very short stand-offs, the case wouldn't look as gaudy and cheap as it looks with those windows. Heck, want a better solution?

-The front and top panels are one and the same (captain obvious, I know). What would happen if you made said panel a bit wider...lets say 5mm on each side? After you bend it, you would have a 5mm overhang (on each side) on the front and top of the case. So, you could install glass side panels (with stand-offs, for breathing) that would sit flush with the front and top of the case but not with the back nor bottom. This make the whole design a tad wider but you would only modify your design a little bit and nobody would notice that the panels were mounted on stand-offs to allow the system inside to breathe because the mounting would only become obvious once you dismantle the system, or if you were to look at it from behind. Still, a far from perfect idea, but a much, much better than the one you presented.

*5mm is just an out-of-my-ass number, of course. I have no idea how thing glass needs to be in order not to be too delicate nor I know the space you need for breathing. But you get my idea.

Or don't put windows at all. Windows aren't required, and in a design like this that makes intake required via the sides you are simply tinkering with the design too much for... nothing at all.


PS: I see you erased the pictures. Good. That monster shouldn't even be posted as a joke.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

On the subject of dust filters, just thinking out loud here but would it be a silly idea to just put the filters directly over the fans and let the positive air pressure keep the rest of the dust away? I attached a quick mockup showing what I mean.

Again, just a thought..
View attachment 12283

FYI, dust will accumulate on the outside of the panels (regardless of whether you use a filter or not). Which is good because makes cleaning easier and bad because dust becomes very apparent very soon. Anybody that has used Lian Li cases knows that small holes like those used in a design like this (and the NCASE M1, for that matter) attract a ton of dust. A ton.

Also, I would not pust filters on a design that relies on the fans of the cpu and gpu to cool the whole thing. You might starve the system far too much.

 

[dondan]

DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test


Introduction:

I plan to offer a Window Kit for the A4-SFX in summer 2017. It will be accessories so you can buy it separately. I plan to sell each side for its own,
so you can decide if you need only one side or both. Therefore I worked with Lian Li on two samples. One with tempered glass and the other one is made
out of acryl. The design isn’t final so if you have wishes or ideas to the design don’t wait and write your comment in the thread.



Acryl/Plexi Version:

I use a 3mm thick acryl glass for this version. The acryl version is a bit darker then the tempered glass one. The quality is nearly on the same level
as the tempered glass version. Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. After I removed the protection foil the first time the acryl is
static charged. This means the panel attracts hair and dust. Wiping the panels with a wet cleaning rag will stop that forever.
For the final price the acryl is around 10€ cheaper.


(click for higher resolution)



Tempered Glass Version:

For the tempered glass version I had trouble getting what I want. In Taiwan the tempered glass market is controlled by the government, so it is very hard
to get every thickness and color. For the needed 3mm version it was impossible to get it in tea black, so I have to use the default version.
Furthermore tempered glass has restriction for the holes. I had to use a 5mm diameter for the mounting holes and the distance from the holes to the outer
surface has to be 18mm.

Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. The corners have a green gloss that is typical for not colored tempered glass. I have no static charged
problem with the tempered glass panels.



(click for higher resolution)



Temperature Values:

I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.

If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a
passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.

The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as
expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.

To explain why the temps are higher, I have to explain why the default panel will work so well:

• The fan can suck fresh air directly from the outside. Nearly 90% of the air will be taken from the outside and not from the inside.
• The fan creates positive air pressure inside the case, because of blowing air inside. This pressure will force hot air to move outside on the top.

Now I will explain it for the window panel:

• The fan suck fresh air not directly from the outside, because there are no venting holes in the glass. So nearly 80% of the air will be used air from the
  inside. I thought the gab will be enough to getting new fresh air, but a small 92mm fan is not strong and fast enough for this. So only 20% of the air will be air from the gab.
• The window kit isn’t closed enough, so the fan isn’t able to crate positive pressure because the air can move everywhere.

These two reasons will increase the temp more and more, because the fan recycles hot air. It will stop at the point, where the 20% exchange through the gab
is enough for holding the temperature.



Conclusion:

For myself, I am very happy with the look, quality and feel of the new side panels. I made the decision to use them permanent on my system and living with
higher temps because benchmarking is not my daily business.

But the best surprise for me of the new test is the Nexus 7000 Low R2, it looks so great and is so powerful. But the best thing it is currently the best
heatsink for the A4 and it will also work with the default panels. (I will offer a how-to later)



Your decision:

Now it is up to you. Keep in mind that I used a 140W TDP CPU with the window.

• Do you like the design of the panel?
• What is your favorite version tempered or acryl?
• Do you think the results are ok or should I redesign the panels?
• What is more important design or good cooling. Adding holes will make the visibility worse.

If you think you have a idea that can change everything or an optimizing to the current design like round corners for the glass, please use the attached picture to visualize your idea.



(click for higher resolution)


With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me

Daniel

 

[mirgus]

prava, never read so much bullshit in one post. Congratulations. And i am not telling this because i am a fanboy, its just completly stupid what u suggest. This case shall be the smallest, so every mm counts and thats one of the main "buy" arguments. Not excuses there, thats why the sidepanel s are optional.
Why the window is installed that way is obviously...
The shape is arguably. I like it tho, although wont buy it because of transport reasons.

Dan i think the Acryl version looks better and is easier to handle... wouldnt break easy and can be replaced easily and its more transportable.

I think completly round corners on each corner would be awkward.
The 2 edges at the back fits perfectly, would be a mix of the to edges at the back and round edges at the front much more expensive? That way it would follow the shape of the case

 

[thehack]

prava, never read so much bullshit in one post. Congratulations. And i am not telling this because i am a fanboy, its just completly stupid what u suggest. This case shall be the smallest, so every mm counts and thats one of the main "buy" arguments. Not excuses there, thats why the sidepanel s are optional.
Why the window is installed that way is obviously...
The shape is arguably. I like it tho, although wont buy it because of transport reasons.

Dan i think the Acryl version looks better and is easier to handle... wouldnt break easy and can be replaced easily and its more transportable.

I think completly round corners on each corner would be awkward.
The 2 edges at the back fits perfectly, would be a mix of the to edges at the back and round edges at the front much more expensive? That way it would follow the shape of the case

I wouldn't worry much about what he says. If they trolling just put them on your block list, no need to feed 'em. I only noticed because I wasn't logged in.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

prava, never read so much bullshit in one post. Congratulations. And i am not telling this because i am a fanboy, its just completly stupid what u suggest. This case shall be the smallest, so every mm counts and thats one of the main "buy" arguments. Not excuses there, thats why the sidepanel s are optional.
Why the window is installed that way is obviously...
The shape is arguably. I like it tho, although wont buy it because of transport reasons.

Dan i think the Acryl version looks better and is easier to handle... wouldnt break easy and can be replaced easily and its more transportable.

I think completly round corners on each corner would be awkward.
The 2 edges at the back fits perfectly, would be a mix of the to edges at the back and round edges at the front much more expensive? That way it would follow the shape of the case

I am not talking about making the whole thing bigger for gods sake. I'm only suggesting that the windows version would be a bit wider to properly accommodate the panels without protruding. Overall width would be the same as with this current window implementation.

Again, the panel would only be wider if you were to put a window in it. Normal version = no change needed.

DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test


Introduction:

I plan to offer a Window Kit for the A4-SFX in summer 2017. It will be accessories so you can buy it separately. I plan to sell each side for its own,
so you can decide if you need only one side or both. Therefore I worked with Lian Li on two samples. One with tempered glass and the other one is made
out of acryl. The design isn’t final so if you have wishes or ideas to the design don’t wait and write your comment in the thread.



Acryl/Plexi Version:

I use a 3mm thick acryl glass for this version. The acryl version is a bit darker then the tempered glass one. The quality is nearly on the same level
as the tempered glass version. Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. After I removed the protection foil the first time the acryl is
static charged. This means the panel attracts hair and dust. Wiping the panels with a wet cleaning rag will stop that forever.
For the final price the acryl is around 10€ cheaper.


(click for higher resolution)



Tempered Glass Version:

For the tempered glass version I had trouble getting what I want. In Taiwan the tempered glass market is controlled by the government, so it is very hard
to get every thickness and color. For the needed 3mm version it was impossible to get it in tea black, so I have to use the default version.
Furthermore tempered glass has restriction for the holes. I had to use a 5mm diameter for the mounting holes and the distance from the holes to the outer
surface has to be 18mm.

Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. The corners have a green gloss that is typical for not colored tempered glass. I have no static charged
problem with the tempered glass panels.



(click for higher resolution)



Temperature Values:

I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.

If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a
passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.

The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as
expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.

To explain why the temps are higher, I have to explain why the default panel will work so well:

• 
  
  
  • The fan can suck fresh air directly from the outside. Nearly 90% of the air will be taken from the outside and not from the inside.
  • The fan creates positive air pressure inside the case, because of blowing air inside. This pressure will force hot air to move outside on the top.

Now I will explain it for the window panel:

• 
  
  
  • The fan suck fresh air not directly from the outside, because there are no venting holes in the glass. So nearly 80% of the air will be used air from the
    inside. I thought the gab will be enough to getting new fresh air, but a small 92mm fan is not strong and fast enough for this. So only 20% of the air will be air from the gab.
  • The window kit isn’t closed enough, so the fan isn’t able to crate positive pressure because the air can move everywhere.

These two reasons will increase the temp more and more, because the fan recycles hot air. It will stop at the point, where the 20% exchange through the gab
is enough for holding the temperature.



Conclusion:

For myself, I am very happy with the look, quality and feel of the new side panels. I made the decision to use them permanent on my system and living with
higher temps because benchmarking is not my daily business.

But the best surprise for me of the new test is the Nexus 7000 Low R2, it looks so great and is so powerful. But the best thing it is currently the best
heatsink for the A4 and it will also work with the default panels. (I will offer a how-to later)



Your decision:

Now it is up to you. Keep in mind that I used a 140W TDP CPU with the window.

• 
  
  
  • Do you like the design of the panel?
  • What is your favorite version tempered or acryl?
  • Do you think the results are ok or should I redesign the panels?
  • What is more important design or good cooling. Adding holes will make the visibility worse.

If you think you have a idea that can change everything or an optimizing to the current design like round corners for the glass, please use the attached picture to visualize your idea.



(click for higher resolution)


With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me

Daniel

OK so not only it looks like shit but performance goes to the dumpster. 25ºC difference, no less.

And the reason to release this is...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

PS: shared a suggestion regarding window implementation. But knowing how much it effects performance I wouldn't release a thing with it either way. Your call though.

I wouldn't worry much about what he says. If they trolling just put them on your block list, no need to feed 'em. I only noticed because I wasn't logged in.

You don't even know what a troll is, do you?

 

[Ozymandias]

dondan, I think the tempered glass version looks better. I'd also suggest using thumbscrews, like on the Lian Li PC08. The Phillips head screws look very cheap.

I'm looking forward to more information about the heatsinks! Thanks!

 

[dondan]

Here is a version with round front corners what do you think?