DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

dondan said:
I have to bag everybody to say if they are ok with paying $220 for this case exclusive tax and shipment. Also those people who only read this thread and don't write comments. Let me know if the price is ok for you.
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I trust that you are doing the best to balance price and quality, Dan. Unless there is something you have not told us, I do think it is worth waiting until you are able to test the Lian-Li D-type black riser before making a decision, as the lowered cost would make a huge difference in the success of the case. But if it came down to it I would pay $220 much for the case- hopefully overseas shipping is not too much on it.
 
I'm all in for the 3M riser choice, since it has been thought since the beginning and seems to be the best option for this particular case.

Let the orders begin! (so I'm saying I'm down with the 220$).

How much is the international shipping going to be?
 
nallez said:
I'm all in for the 3M riser choice, since it has been thought since the beginning and seems to be the best option for this particular case.(...)
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For this case, maybe the other riser is as good, as the 3M. The 3M is the top notch, used in industrial/enterprise applications. You may put a "Nasa spacial painting" on the case, because is the best, but this case don't need it.

Its a question of flexibility of the alternative riser, not quality.
 
Forgive me if I missed this on one of the 59 pages - is it possible/feasible to buy the riser from somewhere? Or is it something only obtainable through lian li?

If it's difficult to obtain, I wouldn't mind buying one from dondan in the same vein as necere selling IEC cable extensions on his store.
 
Right now we only know one that really works in that case and adds 50% to the total price. We are discussing if there is any viable alternative in the market (bending angles are the main problem).
 
I have a question here. In order to help keep costs down and improve design changes on the fly, wouldnt a 3d printer do you some good? In theory it would keep your costs down on building a prototype chassis and building different segments of the case with modified sizes could be done almost at will. I've seen some fairly decent resin printers at $500-$600(not counting material) which is alot less expensive and may help you in other areas as well. Just an idea Dondan. And the case is phenomenal by the way, the renderings are very nice.
 
Hi guys thank you for all the feedback.

I made a very short poll so I can better validating your suggestions for the price and if it is realistic to bring the case on the market.

Please let me know in this poll how much you are ready to pay and not how much you are wish to pay for the case. I don't make this poll to find out how much profit i could get, rather to know if i could make the price possible you are ready to pay.
There are many factors that are having influence on the price e.g. tax for import the cases, crowdfunding fees, paypal fees, business operating expenses, prototyping cost and a small profit for my work.

So please support me by give me 1 minute of your time and make this poll:

DAN A4-SFX POLL
 
dondan said:
Hi guys thank you for all the feedback.

I made a very short poll so I can better validating your suggestions for the price and if it is realistic to bring the case on the market.

Please let me know in this poll how much you are ready to pay and not how much you are wish to pay for the case. I don't make this poll to find out how much profit i could get, rather to know if i could make the price possible you are ready to pay.
There are many factors that are having influence on the price e.g. tax for import the cases, crowdfunding fees, paypal fees, business operating expenses, prototyping cost and a small profit for my work.

So please support me by give me 1 minute of your time and make this poll:

DAN A4-SFX POLL
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Just responded to the poll. :)
 
Is this case going to be sold from Taiwan or Germany? Did I understand correctly that youre planning on starting a company in Germany and therefor there wont be any import taxes for buyers from other EU countries, right?
 
As others have said, we can only wait until Dondan tests both risers on the prototype. I am still willing to pay $220 (not including tax and shipping) as this is truly a one of a kind PC case.

Also, I have submitted my vote on the Google Forms poll.
 
Great work dondan! I voted and really hope you are able to produce this case. I plan to use it until it falls apart.
 
tbh I'm honestly not sure why this is becoming such a huge issue. The case was originally planned as a premium custom case like the NCase, and with premium products comes premium prices. I'd honestly rather spend 220 then 160 knowing that everything is going to fit and work perfectly then to have this case delayed any further.

You can't satisfy everyone and honestly $60 shouldn't be causing this much of a problem, if it is you should probably re evaluate your finances.
 
@88records:

Right... I don't even know why not sell this case for $750. You can't afford it? Maybe you can, but maybe you don't want to. Or maybe you should re evaluate your finances!?!

The case is not going to be sold with something that don't work or fit, that's not a something to be considered. If you can't wait one more month or two, you should re evaluate your life priorities!?!?!
 
It matters a lot whether we would have to pay import taxes / VAT on top of the price. I'm from Denmark, and that stuff adds around 50% of the price on goods from outside the EU.

A case that is reasonably priced but expensive becomes crazy expensive once you add 50% to the price.

If you are able to sell it from fx Germany price becomes less of an issue. Where do you live Dondan? Europe or US?
 
andgo said:
It matters a lot whether we would have to pay import taxes / VAT on top of the price. I'm from Denmark, and that stuff adds around 50% of the price on goods from outside the EU.

A case that is reasonably priced but expensive becomes crazy expensive once you add 50% to the price.

If you are able to sell it from fx Germany price becomes less of an issue. Where do you live Dondan? Europe or US?
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10km under the danish border in germany.
Selling in the EU there will be no import tax for you.
 
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88records said:
tbh I'm honestly not sure why this is becoming such a huge issue. The case was originally planned as a premium custom case like the NCase, and with premium products comes premium prices. I'd honestly rather spend 220 then 160 knowing that everything is going to fit and work perfectly then to have this case delayed any further.

You can't satisfy everyone and honestly $60 shouldn't be causing this much of a problem, if it is you should probably re evaluate your finances.
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Nothing is lost by testing out potential alternatives. If a less expensive part can be used and is every bit as reliable, then it's a win-win. Not taking advantage of opportunities like that can kill a great product from ever getting decent sales through or traction.
 
Would it be very bad for you if I order the prototype without front I/O and only with the power switch? I can save $1200 prototyping cost and i could easily add the front I/O for the production run.
 
I don't see any problem with that. I don't think aesthetics are the main concern at this time, and $1200 are a significant value!
 
Would there be another prototype before production?

If so I don't see an issue, though you'll get several people asking why there isn't a front IO when they see pics of the prototype :rolleyes:
 
Aibohphobia said:
Would there be another prototype before production?

If so I don't see an issue, though you'll get several people asking why there isn't a front IO when they see pics of the prototype :rolleyes:
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I will buy this:
cc-8930041.jpg


and made my own front I/O for the prototype with a 3D printed holder.
 
dondan said:
liheatvs3md0xi7.jpg
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PCI-E is not something you can mess around with. If there is any problem with it, the case will be ruined. If a problem is noticed 6 months down the road, all those cases will be ruined. The bad mindshare and customer service resources required will crush you.

Charge $250 for the case with the good riser. You can always change a part later and then change the cost.

This is an incredibly niche product with no alternative. Frankly I think it should cost 2x more than the price you're proposing. A big business would want to get 50% profit margin on this. You're probably making zero profit after your labor cost is factored in.
 
Liam Li wouldn't ruin their 'reputation on an undeniably important part of their high end cases by using an inferior, unreliable product. We are talking about Lian Li here, not Corsair... :p

This might be a niche product now, but the amount of SFF products we have seen come out in the last while shows that SFF of this stature will be mainstream before we know it. SFF has grown exponentially. Just look at the ideas flowing in this sub-section.

bAMtan2 said:
PCI-E is not something you can mess around with. If there is any problem with it, the case will be ruined. If a problem is noticed 6 months down the road, all those cases will be ruined. The bad mindshare and customer service resources required will crush you.

Charge $250 for the case with the good riser. You can always change a part later and then change the cost.

This is an incredibly niche product with no alternative. Frankly I think it should cost 2x more than the price you're proposing. A big business would want to get 50% profit margin on this. You're probably making zero profit after your labor cost is factored in.
Click to expand...
 
bAMtan2 said:
This is an incredibly niche product with no alternative. Frankly I think it should cost 2x more than the price you're proposing. A big business would want to get 50% profit margin on this. You're probably making zero profit after your labor cost is factored in.
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This case looks very important to you. It's just a PC case. I wouldn't pay 2x more, and I think the majority of the potential buyers wouldn't pay that amount too. If you are wiling to pay any price, you can ask yourself a prototype to Lian Li for $ 3.000.

It's an excellent project, the result seem excellent, but I think Dondan don't want to sell only 20 to 50 cases and close the business. I think you're looking only for your needs here, and not for the market potential of this product, and Dondan's business. If this come out with a competitive price, every one of us will show our cases in our country's forums and the market will grow exponentially!

Don't understand why do you think Lian Li material don't have enough quality!?
 
The issue is not that the LiHeat cables may be 'poor quality' (they've been independantly tested, we know they work), but that they may not fit in the case (or may not have a sufficiently small minimum bend radius while remaining in spec).

Until Dondan has a cable in hand to test with, there is no way to tell if the LiHeat cable will be an option without redesigning the case again.
 
Hi guys here is a small update from me:

- over 200 people take part of my price question poll. This poll will run until Sunday and then I will review the results.
If you forget doing it here is the link: DAN A4-SFX POLL

- I payed the prototype and after the new year in china(18.03.15-23.03.15) I will plan the next steps with Lian Li's engineering team.

- I found an interesting new shield risercard with 30cm length an a none-conductive outside. Furthermore the price is very nice and it have the D-Type design. I ordered one and will test it in 2 weeks if it could reach PCIe Gen3.

- Actual I rethink about the design of the front I/O. The main goal is reducing the price of the case and having a prototype that looks similar to the final case. Furthermore i found out that the depth of LianLis angled front I/O is around 22mm so we would lose 9mm GPU size or I must increase the length of the case.
Here are some designs I made with a short description of advantages and disadvantages. If it would be my decision I would only take the power switch because I like it simple.

frontioi6yaw.jpg
 
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I vote for just a power button. I think most people use a usb hub or usbs in their monitor and I for one havent even connected my front usb header in Ncase because the cable is really bulky and takes up a lot of space and in a small case like this all the extra space is welcome. Plain power button also looks the best imo :cool:
 
I'm happy with the audio on the back but use a USB based Yubikey for security so would like at least one USB but would still buy a case with none.

If you're going to put a USB on the front make it a double unit (i.e. two in parallel), this would be a single square cutout (so cheaper) and would look more balanced with the circular power button.
 
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Alternative 2 (power button only) should do just fine since it's such a very small case (meaning that I don't think it'd be too big a deal to reach around the back for usb port access when needed). Alternative 3 would also work.

Not sure if I'll be getting one, but I see no reason to go with anything less than the maximum quality 3M riser. For me, even $300 would be ok. $220 is nothing for a premium case with a premium riser.
 
I see no reason to keep including the front audio connector. I don't think I have used them in ages...
 
Padraig said:
If you're going to put a USB on the front make it a double unit (i.e. two in parallel), this would be a single square cutout (so cheaper) and would look more balanced with the circular power button.
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+1, do it like Silverstone SG06, looks perfect and you'd still have two USB :)
 
dondan said:
If it would be my decision I would only take the power switch because I like it simple.
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+1 to that.

In my opinion #2 is the best option with #4 behind it, it has a very minimalistic and sleek design, we'd all save money, less messy front I/O wires that you have to route, and less internal restrictions. I feel that the front audio and USB would be a waste and cost extra money, most current mITX motherboards have a healthy amount of USB3 and USB2 in the back, and a lot of peripherals only support up to USB2 anyway. As for the front audio, I feel a lot of power users who buy premium products like custom cases would have AMPS/DACS, or at least have a more proper sound solution, or even just route their headphone jack to the back of the case.

I feel people can agree with what I stated, but I too would like to see people's opinions as a consumer for this product, this case is very very interesting to me.
 
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Well, it looks like there are people here who NEED front usb and some who absolutely never use it. Front IO is a rather minor change of a few holes an an extra circuitboard. Maybe Dondan could sell a variant with and one without front IO without too much trouble... So everyone is satisfied :D
 
For me one front USB would be enough. I use an external amp anyway, so I wouldn't use a front audio jack.

Maybe you should make another poll!
 
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