DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Aircoookie said:
Maybe I'll go non-K i7-6700 with L9i then. If there were only a good H170 board with USB 3.1... since otherwise I could even stick with Haswell. Looking forward to the test with 6700K and C7 in the A4. My priorities: Size > idle noise > performance > load noise
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If I were to upgrade to skylake I'd probably go with an i5 6600.

I wanted to do the i3 6300 for the glorious 47W tdp, but IIRC the 6600 is only a 66Wtdp.

I'm not sure if the noise levels on the C7 are acceptable to me, I think I'm still going to get one and test it before making a final decision.
 
I would wait for the temperature results in the Dan A4 case itself. Since the cpu cooler has such close, easy access to fresh air in the case, the temperatures should be at least be a little cooler than the review linked up. That PC case is a mid-tower made for silent computing, so it does not surprise me that the temperatures seem a bit disappointing.
 
dondan said:
Ok then try repaste maybe that helps.
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Alright, I tried repasting several times with the same effect. I can get temps around the 40's at idle, but after a long CPU benchmark things stay around the high 50's to low 60's for a very long time. At full CPU load I'm getting temps in the mid-80 to high 80's. Here's what I'm using:

CPU: 135W Xeon E5 V3
Cooler: Dynatron T318
Fan: Thermalright TY-100
Paste: Noctua NT-H1

Any other thoughts? Maybe this is okay, but high CPU temps while stressed have me concerned. Thanks for your help!
 
You can try three things:

Testing the hardware outside of the M1. I think in the M1 the Cooler will recycle hot air. Because there is to much left room between outside and fan. If you get better values you can add +1-2°C and you have the value inside the A4-SFX. You wrote that the temps stay at 50-60°c after benchmarking. This is an indicator for hot air that can't go outside the case.

Maybe adding a 120mm FAN over the CPU on the sidepanel in the M1 could help.

You could also lower the temp by undervolting the Xeon use the offset mode: -0,06v -0,09v should be possible and helps to lower the temp between 5-8°C.

It could also be that you got a hot chip. For example if you have 10 Xeons E5. Maybe 2 will be under full load 70-75°C, 6 will be between 75-80°C and 2 will be 80-85°C.
 
dondan said:
You can try three things:

Testing the hardware outside of the M1. I think in the M1 the Cooler will recycle hot air. Because there is to much left room between outside and fan. If you get better values you can add +1-2°C and you have the value inside the A4-SFX.

Maybe adding a 120mm FAN over the CPU on the sidepanel in the M1 could help.

You could also lower the temp by undervolting the Xeon use the offset mode: -0,06v -0,09v should be possible and helps to lower the temp between 5-8°C.

It could also be that you got a hot chip. For example if you have 10 Xeons E5. Maybe 2 will be under full load 70-75°C, 6 will be between 75-80°C and 2 will be 80-85°C.
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Good suggestions!

- I'll definitely be moving this build into an A4, so hopefully closer proximity to the outside will help.
- I've tried playing around with fan profiles and everything seems to be working OK on the TY-100
- If I decide to undervolt, should I try to reduce target clock speeds? Or, will this just happen automatically.
 
If you reduce the target clockspeed, you can lower the voltage more but real undervolting means having the same power with lower voltage.

For my daily use case I set the max multi of my 5820k to 30 and undervolt the CPU in offfsetmode to -0,125V. In prime95k I have max temps around 66°C. I don't need more CPU power, because if I play I only play Diablo3.
I setup a custom fan profile in the ASrock UEFI. Up to 50°C CPU temp 30% fan speed, from 50-60°C up to 60% fanspeed, from 60-70 up to 80% fan speed and if i got more than 70°C the fan will go to 100%. Make sure that you setup these for all fan tables and link it to the CPU temp, because customize fan tables are buggy. It could be that the CPU fan use a different fan table after rebooting so setup it for all tables. There is also another bug. If you setup a custom fan profile and you go into the bios and change the voltage of the CPU the bios will lose all custom fan profiles.Maybe I have to update the bios :rolleyes:
 
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dondan said:
If you reduce the target clockspeed, you can lower the voltage more but real undervolting means having the same power with lower voltage.

For my daily use case I set the max multi of my 5820k to 30 and undervolt the CPU in offfsetmode to -0,125V. In prime95k I have max temps around 66°C. I don't need more CPU power, because if I play I only play Diablo3.
I setup a custom fan profile in the ASrock UEFI. Up to 50°C CPU temp 30% fan speed, from 50-60°C up to 60% fanspeed, from 60-70 up to 80% fan speed and if i got more than 70°C the fan will go to 100%. Make sure that you setup these for all fan tables and link it to the CPU temp, because customize fan tables are buggy. It could be that the CPU fan use a different fan table after rebooting so setup it for all tables. There is also another bug. If you setup a custom fan profile and you go into the bios and change the voltage of the CPU the bios will lose all custom fan profiles.Maybe I have to update the bios :rolleyes:
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Ah, thanks for the tip on the CPU fan profiles while changing the voltage! That would have driven me crazy.

Alright, I'll play with this then. On a Xeon I can't do any overclocking (besides BClk, which won't get me far), so I'll play with undervolting.

Edit: Is the right setting to change "Vcore Voltage Additional Offset" or "CPU Input Voltage"?
 
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Dondan: I am looking to purchase the ASRock Z170M-ITX/ac mobo because I need the PCI-Express slot for my Broadcom network card. (Hackintosh build)

I noticed the Broadcom BCM94360CD is 57mm long. I also noticed the max cpu heigh is 48mm. Can I safely assume this Broadcom card will not fit?
 
@dondan - I don't know if you saw the question asked on the previous pages, but with the new manufacturer, any chance on an earlier release date?
 
I might've read wrong so please take what I said with a pinch of salt. Looming back now, I'm unable to locate where dondan said something about it.

On a side note, what do you guys recon the chances are you'll be able to squeeze a EVGA 980ti GAMING AC 2.0+ SC+ into this case? I'm worried about temps...
 
rude said:
@dondan - I don't know if you saw the question asked on the previous pages, but with the new manufacturer, any chance on an earlier release date?
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iFreilicht said:
New manufacturer? Is LianLi out of the game?
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I believe you fellows are mistaken, no new manufacturer, but a securing of an overseas (I am in the US) distributor has been mentioned recently…?
 
fminus said:
I noticed the Broadcom BCM94360CD is 57mm long. I also noticed the max cpu heigh is 48mm. Can I safely assume this Broadcom card will not fit?
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You have to try it. I think the socketpoint of the mini pcie port is lower as the topside of the cpu inside the socket. But I think it will not fit.

rude said:
@dondan - I don't know if you saw the question asked on the previous pages, but with the new manufacturer, any chance on an earlier release date?
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I don't have a new manufracture! Lian Li will still build the case. Maybe I will get a reseller, that means you buy the case not directly from me but from the webshop of the reseller. There is no chance for an early release.

Maybe I have to point out that we start producing the case end december not shipping it.
 
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rude said:
I might've read wrong so please take what I said with a pinch of salt. Looming back now, I'm unable to locate where dondan said something about it.

On a side note, what do you guys recon the chances are you'll be able to squeeze a EVGA 980ti GAMING AC 2.0+ SC+ into this case? I'm worried about temps...
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You did. He said
By the way if my deal works with the reseller I don't need a crowdfunding campaign, because they ship worldwide.
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reseller != manufacturer

Ha, I see Dan already responded.
 
dondan said:
Vcore Voltage Additional Offset is the right value.
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Hey Dan,
Thanks for your help, I'm now getting mid-30's idle and mid-70's at 100% load with a -0.11 undervolt. I'm tempted to try and push it further down to -0.125! Everything seems stable at stock clocks.

This is in an M1 with all the side panels off. Looking forward to trying this in an A4!

For those thinking about LGA 2011 in the A4, it looks like this will be possible, at least without overclocking!
 
Hey Dan thanks for your response.

I had one last question regards to cooling. In your tests and photos you use a motherboard that places the cpu towards the top. The ASRock Z170M-ITX has the CPU placed towards the bottom of the board. It would seems that it would almost align with the GPU die on the other side. Will this motherboard be an issue in regards to overall temperature?
 
jb1 said:
Hey Dan,
Thanks for your help, I'm now getting mid-30's idle and mid-70's at 100% load with a -0.11 undervolt. I'm tempted to try and push it further down to -0.125! Everything seems stable at stock clocks.

This is in an M1 with all the side panels off. Looking forward to trying this in an A4!

For those thinking about LGA 2011 in the A4, it looks like this will be possible, at least without overclocking!
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This is great. What E5 do you use?
 
Wow, 12 cores inside the A4-SFX this whould be sheer madness.
 
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dondan said:
Wow, 12 cores inside the A4-SFX this whould be sheer madness.
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Yeah! The Asrock X99 ITX board has really opened up some new opportunities.

My crazy dream is to use PCIe bifurcation to put two ITX sized GPU's side by side with water blocks in the GPU compartment. Then, I want to design a custom outflow valve so liquid enters exits from above rather than from the sides of the card. Finally, a radiator will go behind the PSU enabling a 12 core SLI or CrossFire build in ~7L.
 
jb1 said:
Yeah! The Asrock X99 ITX board has really opened up some new opportunities.

My crazy dream is to use PCIe bifurcation to put two ITX sized GPU's side by side with water blocks in the GPU compartment. Then, I want to design a custom outflow valve so liquid enters exits from above rather than from the sides of the card. Finally, a radiator will go behind the PSU enabling a 12 core SLI or CrossFire build in ~7L.
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Gonna have to be two R9 Nanos then, I believe all the other ITX GPUs out there are all dual slot even after switching the bulky stock coolers for a water block, because of the video out ports…

What pump/res you gonna use, and where is it gonna go…?
 
Boil said:
Gonna have to be two R9 Nanos then, I believe all the other ITX GPUs out there are all dual slot even after switching the bulky stock coolers for a water block, because of the video out ports…

What pump/res you gonna use, and where is it gonna go…?
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At that point a Fury X2 seems to make a lot more sense.
 
Boil said:
Gonna have to be two R9 Nanos then, I believe all the other ITX GPUs out there are all dual slot even after switching the bulky stock coolers for a water block, because of the video out ports…

What pump/res you gonna use, and where is it gonna go…?
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Yep, would have to be R9 Nano right now. I'm hoping there will be other ITX options next year with Pascal or Arctic Islands.

Still thinking on the pump and res, my thought is that it would sit below the GPU and radiator. So far, I have not found an option that would work well, still searching on that one.

I don't think I would be able to do larger than a 25mm thick 120mm rad + 12.5 mm thick fan, which has me concerned with cooling two R9 Nanos. Maybe next year there will be something with lower power that would make more sense.

iFreilicht said:
At that point a Fury X2 seems to make a lot more sense.
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Yeah it would, but unfortunately I think that this is going to be a liquid cooled model, there wouldn't be anywhere to put the radiator in the A4.
 
dondan said:
Wow, 12 cores inside the A4-SFX this whould be sheer madness.

@All: Some asked i this thread if there is a bag for the A4-SFX. Maybe this one will fit:

http://www.amazon.de/Lowepro-Event-...5&sr=1-2&keywords=Lowepro-Event-Messenger-150
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I already purchased this standby for my A4. http://store.lowepro.com/nova-sport-35l-aw

It fits A4, based on the measures, you can throw in some stuffs as well e.g. Controller, mouse, cable, keyboard, etc. Amazon US is selling it for less than $30. A value buy!
 
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jb1 said:
Yeah! The Asrock X99 ITX board has really opened up some new opportunities.

My crazy dream is to use PCIe bifurcation to put two ITX sized GPU's side by side with water blocks in the GPU compartment. Then, I want to design a custom outflow valve so liquid enters exits from above rather than from the sides of the card. Finally, a radiator will go behind the PSU enabling a 12 core SLI or CrossFire build in ~7L.
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Holy shit, are you me? Thats exactly what i was thinking about the last weeks. The R9 Nano might be the perfect (yet expensive) candidate for a project like this. I didnt like the card when it first came out, but with its uniquely short PCB at 15,3cm it will allow a 120mm rad, maybe even a 140mm, depending how much space the front-oriented powerplugs take.

With the new 1-Slot liquid-cooling options from EKWB or Aquacomputer a "Sandwich"-Crossfire-Setup should be possible.
Like you pointed out, it will require a custom-made bridge-like connector part that will replace the stock connectors on both waterblocks. I'm thinking of a shared block-type connector, that splits the waterflow into two channels. I should fire up solidworks and do a CAD-Modell of this...
 
What do you think of this heatsink for X99/narrow ILM in place of the T318? It will fit in A4-SFX?




1.5U active CPU-Cooler / CPU-Kühler T2NA-BSI8-D125D
for Socket R / LGA 2011 Square Intel Core i7,
Xeon E5 series

1.5U special design Copper skived fin CPU-Cooler
Dimensions: 106Lx70Wx44Hmm, Weight: 622g
Delta AFB0712HHB PWM Fan, 750-5400rpm(+/-10%), 39.45 CFM, max. 47.4 dB-A
Fastener: Screw + Spring
RoHS & REACh compliant, Made in Taiwan by Cooljag

It is written "square ILM" but we can see on the photo that is "narrow ILM", and it is in the "2U narrow ILM" section... And the fan is announced to a maximum of 34 db ... ??

And there are other radiator for narrow ILM in the section .. May be one more effective than the T318?
 
Zurec said:
Holy shit, are you me? Thats exactly what i was thinking about the last weeks. The R9 Nano might be the perfect (yet expensive) candidate for a project like this. I didnt like the card when it first came out, but with its uniquely short PCB at 15,3cm it will allow a 120mm rad, maybe even a 140mm, depending how much space the front-oriented powerplugs take.

With the new 1-Slot liquid-cooling options from EKWB or Aquacomputer a "Sandwich"-Crossfire-Setup should be possible.
Like you pointed out, it will require a custom-made bridge-like connector part that will replace the stock connectors on both waterblocks. I'm thinking of a shared block-type connector, that splits the waterflow into two channels. I should fire up solidworks and do a CAD-Modell of this...
Click to expand...

There are others thinking about similar builds! Although not necessarily in the A4:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1870298

Important notes:
- Only the Asrock X99 ITX board on the P1.20E BIOS supports PCIe bifurcation at this time
- This seems to be the best candidate: http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

I'm hoping there will be other options besides the R9 nano next year for this type of project, it is quite expensive! Maybe Nvidia Pascal or AMD Arctic Islands will have more cards like this.

A shared block-type connector would be the way to do it! I'll be curious to see what you come up with in solid works.

As for radiator and pump, I'm having trouble finding things that would be small enough. Dondan, do you know the width of the GPU compartment? Edit: from earlier in the thread, it looks like 40mm thickness max.
 
jtd871 said:
KSliger reported here https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/two-portable-sff-gaming-cases-under-7l-and-under-5l-w-500w-psu.200/page-2#post-4146 that other boards do support bifurcation:
"Some boards require a resistor modification (Z97E-ITX/ac-n), others like X99 need a BIOS flash and then there's some that work with bi/tri/quadfurcation right out of the box like Quanmax KEMX-8201..."
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Good point! Sorry I missed these–– I remember seeing somewhere that the Z97E-ITX/ac-n can be special ordered.

Also, I wanted to pitch this pump as an idea:
https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-ddc-3-2-pwm-laing-ddc-3-2-pwm

ddcpwm-1_800a.jpg


Dimensions (W x D x H): 90 x 62 x 38 mm

If rotated on its side it will be 38 mm thick, which should just fit in the A4 below at 120 mm rad.
 
promaty said:
Might I ask what is the point of having these wings at the back? Does it fly? :)
a4sfx_7.jpg
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Verison 1 will not fly. But I believe Dondan is creating a kit to sell separately to allow the A4 to float around the room while using it....those wings are to keep it balanced and to prevent turbulence :D
 
jb1 said:
There are others thinking about similar builds! Although not necessarily in the A4:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1870298

Important notes:
- Only the Asrock X99 ITX board on the P1.20E BIOS supports PCIe bifurcation at this time
- This seems to be the best candidate: http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

I'm hoping there will be other options besides the R9 nano next year for this type of project, it is quite expensive! Maybe Nvidia Pascal or AMD Arctic Islands will have more cards like this.

A shared block-type connector would be the way to do it! I'll be curious to see what you come up with in solid works.

As for radiator and pump, I'm having trouble finding things that would be small enough. Dondan, do you know the width of the GPU compartment? Edit: from earlier in the thread, it looks like 40mm thickness max.
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Some very quick mockups as how i think such a bridge could look like. Since i dont know the exact dimensions of the EK-cooler, measurements arent accurate. I haven't found any blueprints online so far. The biggest drawback would be the fact that such a bridge needs to be manufactured in two parts, as the connecting cavity cant be milled into it any other way.

Since the laing-based pumps are the smallest available, i would absolutly go for one of those, be it the EK one or another. I think one should fit on the bottom, if you have no ssd's placed there.
Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that you need to unscrew the PCIe-risercable, and with a ribbon for pcie-bifurcation, the room under the graphics cards will be pretty crowded too. And both GPUs are only supported by the IO-Bracket then. Anyways, nothing that cant be overcome i think.
 
Zurec said:
Some very quick mockups as how i think such a bridge could look like. Since i dont know the exact dimensions of the EK-cooler, measurements arent accurate. I haven't found any blueprints online so far. The biggest drawback would be the fact that such a bridge needs to be manufactured in two parts, as the connecting cavity cant be milled into it any other way.

Since the laing-based pumps are the smallest available, i would absolutly go for one of those, be it the EK one or another. I think one should fit on the bottom, if you have no ssd's placed there.
Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that you need to unscrew the PCIe-risercable, and with a ribbon for pcie-bifurcation, the room under the graphics cards will be pretty crowded too. And both GPUs are only supported by the IO-Bracket then. Anyways, nothing that cant be overcome i think.
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This looks great! Thanks for sharing–– I wonder if the input/output flow connectors have a similar design for each EK block, or if they're all different. Also, EK might be willing to provide specifications, I can try emailing them.

laing pumps look great! Thoughts on a reservoir?
 
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