DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

AxMi-24

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Feb 12, 2015
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Yes, this is a great idea, maybe some kind of module design... I can't put this into words :(

It's not a great idea if you want to keep the cost at some sane level (people were already worried about the cost of the riser). Dondan paid something like 3k for the prototype and what you are asking is basically the same. Not sure about you but I can't even think of spending that kind of money on a case even if it has all the tiny details that I would like.

Needs to be some balance between function and cost considering the small market size.
 

Black5Lion

Limp Gawd
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Jan 1, 2013
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325
At this point I don't mind either push-pins or screws, it's up to Dondan.
With push-pins, people will complain about it being imperfectly aligned. With screws people will complain about them being visible (the paint problem could probably be solved by using washers, and thumbscrews -which is another problem (not for me) because they "stick out"-). Magnets (Like the M8) are cool, but people would complain about the panels falling off easily.
Finally with the final design Dondan proposed, cost would be a concern.

All in all, the choice is up to the case's creator. You should do what you like, because it's your case after all ;)
 

Ca11idus

Limp Gawd
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Jan 9, 2012
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499
Dondan, it is your pc child so do what you must. 300-500 run...I so need to be on that list! I've been following the Kimera Nova and I really liked that they have a subscribe for updates link in their webpage. Is there anyway that you could set one up so that we can know the moment the indigogo/crowdfunding starts so that we can jump on them like crazy computer fanatics on a newly released epeen increaser?
 

bAMtan2

[H]ard|Gawd
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Sep 16, 2008
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Yes I know but this is only possible with stamping the case. I must order 5000 cases for doing it.

you found a good compromise. screws ruin the anodized aluminum, but on the bottom they won't be seen.

ideally you'd do something else, because I think screws on the bottom will be a hassle. but the future can hold many fixes (and new production runs!!)
 

theGryphon

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 21, 2011
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Dondan, instead of screwing the panels on the bottom, why don't you have them screw on the back?
GPU side is crowded but it seems like there are spots for two scews on the back: 1) between the AC outlet and GPU, in-between the extensions of the GPU's PCI bracket, 2) On top of the GPU.

Screws on the back would be much easier to deal with, especially because the user wouldn't have to lay the case down just to take the side panel.

This way, you can also get rid of the extended lips at the back that people have been talking about :)
 

dtallon13

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Mar 15, 2015
Messages
67
It's not a great idea if you want to keep the cost at some sane level (people were already worried about the cost of the riser). Dondan paid something like 3k for the prototype and what you are asking is basically the same. Not sure about you but I can't even think of spending that kind of money on a case even if it has all the tiny details that I would like.

Needs to be some balance between function and cost considering the small market size.

That's why it's just an idea.
 

dondan

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Apr 15, 2013
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Dondan, instead of screwing the panels on the bottom, why don't you have them screw on the back?
GPU side is crowded but it seems like there are spots for two scews on the back: 1) between the AC outlet and GPU, in-between the extensions of the GPU's PCI bracket, 2) On top of the GPU.

Screws on the back would be much easier to deal with, especially because the user wouldn't have to lay the case down just to take the side panel.

This way, you can also get rid of the extended lips at the back that people have been talking about :)

Yes but on the GPU side I couldn't make a bend. There are two reasons for it, no screwspace next to the GPU and no bendingspace in the AC-plug area. I like the extensions lips on the back very much :) so I don't think about removing them.

Dondan paid something like 3k for the prototype...

$1700 ;)
 

dtallon13

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Mar 15, 2015
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Honestly I think the hybrid solution, the pins on the sides and screws on the bottom, or just screws on the bottom is perfect.
 

AxMi-24

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Feb 12, 2015
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9
Yes but on the GPU side I couldn't make a bend. There are two reasons for it, no screwspace next to the GPU and no bendingspace in the AC-plug area. I like the extensions lips on the back very much :) so I don't think about removing them.



$1700 ;)

A lot cheaper than 3k but still a bit hefty for a case :D
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
19
Dondan, instead of screwing the panels on the bottom, why don't you have them screw on the back?
GPU side is crowded but it seems like there are spots for two scews on the back: 1) between the AC outlet and GPU, in-between the extensions of the GPU's PCI bracket, 2) On top of the GPU.

Screws on the back would be much easier to deal with, especially because the user wouldn't have to lay the case down just to take the side panel.

This way, you can also get rid of the extended lips at the back that people have been talking about :)


I was thinking the same.Also magnetic closure is good too.
 

goodbyegalaxy

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Jan 7, 2015
Messages
116
The M8 (which uses magnetic side panels) has a key that lets you lock the panels in place.

But like dondan said, he can't use custom parts like that on such a small production run.
 

fusionxr

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Jan 30, 2015
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I'm struggling to understand why push pins aren't strong enough to hold the side panels in place. Will the case be on top of a washing machine? Or in a constant earthquake like environment? Are people going to open the side panel 5 times a day with a hammer and wrench - thus damaging the pins? But even during normal use, those push pins are not flimsy enough to automatically start warping after a few gentle uses. If people are worried about security then maybe 1 screw at the back attached to the side panel via a small angle bracket would suffice.

If it's simple and it works, then why overcomplicate things and try to fix it. Dondan said he only wants one design for the first run, and adding more bends will drive up the price.
 

goodbyegalaxy

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Jan 7, 2015
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I think the screw talk started from this post... dondan asked if people would prefer 1.4mm case length increase or adding screws to the side panels.

I'm not really sure how the screws ended up on the bottom - is it just to save the 1.4mm? The best option to me still seems like avoiding the screws and adding 1.4mm... it's like the width of a dime, no one would ever notice that while the screws add an inconvenience for working with the case.
 

Diverge

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Nov 22, 2005
Messages
542
I'm struggling to understand why push pins aren't strong enough to hold the side panels in place. Will the case be on top of a washing machine? Or in a constant earthquake like environment? Are people going to open the side panel 5 times a day with a hammer and wrench - thus damaging the pins? But even during normal use, those push pins are not flimsy enough to automatically start warping after a few gentle uses. If people are worried about security then maybe 1 screw at the back attached to the side panel via a small angle bracket would suffice.

If it's simple and it works, then why overcomplicate things and try to fix it. Dondan said he only wants one design for the first run, and adding more bends will drive up the price.

I'm with you. ncase m1 has push pins, works great. Various Lian Li cases that I have also have them, they also work great.

Other Lian Li's that I also own, that have screws, are pretty tedious to use... if you don't use the exact # phillips head, you end up ruining the head of the screws.
 

lamboman

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Jul 17, 2007
Messages
598
I've been following this project for a couple of weeks, looks utterly stunning and will absolutely be jumping at the chance to buy one.

In relation to the above two posts, from what I'm following it appears that the reason for adding screws to the bottom was to ensure a more flush fit of the side panels without warping?

Unless I'm completely missing the purpose of using screws at the bottom in the first place, surely all that will happen is the bottom will be flush and the rest of the panel will be exactly the same as if the screws were not there in the first place?

Just adds extra cost and inconvenience IMO, and the push-pins have proven themselves on various other cases. Add to that the issues with the screws leaving marks, risk of stripping, etc. I have a Q25B and part of the reason I bought it was because of the push-pin screwless side panels. Last thing I'd want is, well, screws!
 

Hanakuso

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Mar 3, 2011
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Good point. It's very easy to cross-thread or strip aluminum, especially when use steel screws
 

dondan

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Apr 15, 2013
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Here is a small explanation, why we need the bottom bend of the sidepanels:

The main problem, is the pushpin. Every pushpin has a bit of free space, so that the pins in the clips can move a bit. In an vertical clip the pin can left and right and in an horizontal clip the pins can move up and down.

unnamedoaogy.jpg


The point of view on the case is for the next explanation is directly on the side.

Version1 (only horizontal clips):
On the bottom and top side I use horizontal clips and no vertical clip on the right side. If I only use them without the bottom bend the sidepanel will move around 0,75-1,5mm down and will not clear fit with the topside (See picture). Maybe you can arrange them but after some vibrations, it could be, that they move down again. Furthermore it isn't possible, that LianLi mount the pins not centered, (the upper pins 0,75mm higher and the bottom pins 0,75mm lower) so that the sidepanel can't move. They said for mass production it isn't possible because there is a bit of variance for the mointpoint of the pins.

Version2 (horizontal and vertical clips)
This will hold the panel in the correct position, BUT only if I use vertical clips on the back and front side. But on the A4-SFX there is only space for add them on the front side. This menas, if I only have one or two on the frontside the sidepanel will move down on the back. This is the reason why you see on the actual prototype pictures the topplate in the backarea.

dsc_0133spuhcg6sow.jpg




This is the reason why I use the bottombend. I only need horizontal pushpins and the sidepanel will 100% stay in position. Furthermore it will not affect the price of the case ;)
 

El-Dubya

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Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
51
Wow, I don't know where my mind was this whole time but I kept asking myself why people had issues with these push pins and now looking at A4's closer, they don't really seem as secure as ones from Jonsbo or Silverstone:

DSCN1344_zpsfx0vuenp.jpg


(especially with the small tabs on each side of Lian-Li's version). I know Silverstone/Jonsbo push pins are solid with no wiggle room at all.

Edit: Hmm, without any on the back side though, as Dondan just described, even these might not clamp down any differently. Oh well...screws it is I guess.
 
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lamboman

Gawd
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Jul 17, 2007
Messages
598
Ah, I was looking at the pictures previously posted completely incorrectly, thank you for the clarification.

Honestly, I still think that having horizontal push-pins along with the extra 1.4mm length is the neatest solution. None of this pushing the side panels up and adjusting their fitment when re-fitting them etc. Again, based on the experience of my own Q25B, it's just very convenient.

The only caveats I can see with the push-pins are wear (though I'm doubtful this will be an issue), and also the small size of the case making the side panels difficult to remove, though this is easily sorted by adjusting the location of the push-pins (moving them further away from the rear of the case).
 

fusionxr

n00b
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Jan 30, 2015
Messages
57
Hello guys, I found a solution that should be good for everybody.

I use a mix out of screws and pushpin technology.
You mount the sidepanel with pushpin and fix it on the bottomside with screws.

The advantages are:
- You will not see screws
- Clear fitting and best hold

panelh4omp.jpg


About the SFX-L v.1.1 question, I don't know if this is a newer version.

If this doesn't increase price or require a larger than normal moq then it's perfect. I'm actually considering buying this case without the riser. Is that possible?
 

Repp

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Jan 2, 2015
Messages
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Has there been any new info about the release date or is "in the middle of 2015" still in order?

I skimmed through the thread and I didn't see anything new regarding the release date, but I could have just missed the posts about it.
 
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goodbyegalaxy

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Jan 7, 2015
Messages
116
Honestly, I still think that having horizontal push-pins along with the extra 1.4mm length is the neatest solution. None of this pushing the side panels up and adjusting their fitment when re-fitting them etc. Again, based on the experience of my own Q25B, it's just very convenient.

I guess I still don't understand what the extra 1.4mm was going to be for - if it was in fact for the horizontal push-pins and would avoid the screws altogether, then I agree, that seems like a much better solution.
 

dondan

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Apr 15, 2013
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No the extra 1,4mm should be for the vertical clip in the front (because without adding 1,4mm ther is no room for it in in the frontbend), but as I wrote I need a vertical clip on the front and the back for a perfect hold. The problem is, that I can't add a second vertical in the back because there is no room for it, so the sidepanel will move down in the back.This means the front clip is useless without a backclip(vertical).
So I don't add 1,4mm and don't use a frontclip (verticalclip) . Instead I use for a perfect hold the bottom bend + four horizonatal clips like ont the picture above.
 
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Skelett666

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Mar 2, 2015
Messages
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No the extra 1,4mm should be for the vertical clip in the front (because without adding 1,4mm ther is no room for it in in the frontbend), but as I wrote I need a vertical clip on the front and the back for a perfect hold. The problem is, that I can't add a second vertical in the back because there is no room for it, so the sidepanel will move down in the back.This means the front clip is useless without a backclip(vertical). So I don't add 1,4mm and don't use a frontclip (verticalclip) . Instead I use for a perfect hold the bottom bend + four horizonatal clips like ont the picture above.

Ok ok ok. It's perfect!! Less designing and more folding alu sheets and making holes and putting in boxes! Go! Go! GO! *putting euros in envelope* :D :D :D
 

theGryphon

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 21, 2011
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dondan, just checking, can there be a space for a vertical pushpin at the top corner, as I Gimp'ed here?

121xukx.jpg


Edit: Sorry, wrong picture, now corrected...
 
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dondan

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Apr 15, 2013
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Yes, but if you have a high GPU, it will collidate with the clip. Furthermore on the Motherboardside it will be a problem. We need every mm to get the motherboard inside. Also if I add it on the same position on the motherboard side it would be very hard to screw the motherboard screw under this clip. I think the actual solution with the bottom bend is good enough. If you dont like the two screws on each sidepanel on the bottom don't use them ;).

If I got the prototype I will test everything, how hard is it to mount motherboard s.o. Maybe we can do it like you draw it for production run or the next version.
 

backfeed

Limp Gawd
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Jun 22, 2010
Messages
480
If you dont like the two screws on each sidepanel on the bottom don't use them ;)

Yes, that's the best thing about this compromise; a slight sag of the side panels is a perfectly acceptable trade off to avoid the screws, for me. It's a clever solution, I think.
 

dondan

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A guy in a german forum asked me if I could make rendered pictures of the silver version.


 
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