DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. PalaSicka

    PalaSicka n00b

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    Ok, so I've recieved the 120 mm AIO bracket today and a Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PLPS - 120mm PWM to fit in.

    USING AIO BRACKET FOR A FAN


    Why: The GPU and CPU temps are not an issue, but the case itself is a red burning devil, working as a heater, so I got lil bit worried about other parts than GPU/CPU which are not properly vented

    Setup: Extension PWM cable coming from Motherboard spliting to the bottom 92 mm Noctua fan and the 120 mm bracket
    Main issue: the 120 mm fan-side sticks to the GPU heatsink, blocking the outcoming flow


    Max temps without 120 mm: GPU 72° - CPU 72° in Apex Legends over time

    1. INTAKE - The 120 mm oriented so the cable goes along side of the GPU
      - basically the cable blocked the GPU heatsink even more, choking it to death... temeprature raised slowly to 83°, then I stopped the test
      - obviously the PWM is not making it any favor, as the sensor checks the cooler CPU side and therefore doesn't increase the GPU cooling if needed
      - temps on CPU got surprisingly lower about 2 degrees
      - the case stayed cool, only on the IO bracket topside still around 60-75 degrees
    2. EXHAUST - The 120 mm using extension-to-extension and the wire oposite side from the GPU
      - much better temps on GPU, basically similar to "without bracket"
      - cooler side with the bracket
      - same temps on CPU as without bracket
      - heating top
      If this would be the case, there is absolutely no reason to have this fan there. Completely useless solution in my opinion
    3. INTAKE 2.0 - The 120 mm using extension-to-extension and the wire oposite side from the GPU
      - GPU temps similar to "without bracket"
      - CPU temps lower about 2 degrees
      - the case stayed cool, only on the IO bracket topside still around 60-75 degrees
    As for the installation, if you decide to go this way, prepare yoursefl for some serious puzzle solving and pain. This is a real struggle. First you need to chose the right fan. Noiseblocker BlackSilent is a great fan, but very hard to install, because it's meant for the case building, not a bracket building. "What's the difference" you may ask. In a deskop case, you have complete access to the bottom of the fan, where in DAN case, you only access is to the top of the fan. You should keep this in mind, cause there is very limited space to screw some bolts - especially when (like in my case) you have a noise-reducing rubbers on top and bottom. I had to flip the setup, use some washers and force the whole bracket-with-a-fan into the case.

    This is another problem, because there is no chance you can put the bracket in without removing the GPU! You have to remove the GPU and then - at the best scenario, fit the bracket in on the side of the GPU with the use of the opening above GPU. Then you have to push it aaaall the way to the otherside, wiggling it up and down to avoid the raiser, the bolts which hold the plastic sheet, the sidepanel-holders... Be VERY careful, cause when you put the bracket inside, you will need to shift it and the bolts and nuts holding the 120 mm fan in place can easily !!!damage the GPU raiser!!! Trust me, there is not much space to wobble around.

    This would be probably much better, if there is a +1 mm bigger opening on top. But it's not :D Touché
    hu4iypB.jpg


     
  2. DaHans

    DaHans n00b

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    Thanks for the big post.

    Where did you get the bracket? At SFF Lab it says "free shiping" but in the cart it says "$20 for shipping" and tehre are also no dates for shipping.
     
  3. aiphoenix

    aiphoenix n00b

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    Do we know if this Zotac AMP will fit in the Dan A4? It has a kinda large backplate.
     
  4. Tician

    Tician n00b

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    From the PCIe bracket we can tell that height and width will fit for sure. I can;t find dimensions, but most likely the length is within the 295mm limit of the DAN A4.
     
  5. PalaSicka

    PalaSicka n00b

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    I'm sorry for late reply. I'm in Europe. Caseking.de had it.
     
  6. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    I'm getting unexpected bad thermals and I'm not sure what the reason is. My thermals jumped up by over 15C. Where I was idling at 45C before (Ambient is 30-32C), I'm now idling at 50-60C.


    i migrated from a Dan A4 v2 to a v4 and swapped out my pump from the 92mm Asetek 545LC to the 645LT. However, to my surprise, temps shot up through the roof. I swapped cases in hopes of getting better thermals with the added A9x14 under the motherboard tray. To my surprise and shock, my temps are now worse even with the fan and the new pump. Nothing else was changed other than swapping in Pslate custom unshielded PSU cables instead of Corsair stock ribbon cables.


    Furthermore, I'm hearing a new whine/engine noise. I'm not sure if that's the turbulence from the added bottom fan or if that's how the 645LT is supposed to sound.


    I'm at a loss on what may be the issue here:


    Specs are

    8700k delidded with aftermarket copper IHS

    Asus Strix 370-i

    Corsair LPX

    Samsung 970 Pro 1TB

    Corsair SF600 with Pslate custom cables

    EVGA 2080 TI XC Ultra Gaming

    Thermal Grizzly Kryptonaut
     
  7. myzhi1

    myzhi1 n00b

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    I would say idle temps of 50-60 usually means the heatsink is not attached correctly, or with a AIO, there’s a problem with the water flow, either with pump or blockage somewhere.
     
  8. Tician

    Tician n00b

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    Try to remove and place your cooler back, could be bad contact.
     
  9. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    What's everyone's delta between their motherboard temps and their CPU temps in HWMonitor?

    In my Dan V4 + 8700k delidded + Asus STRIX 370-i + Asetek 645LT + 2 Noctua A9x14 92mm fans @ 2200RPMs

    Idle
    Motherboard sensor = 37C
    CPU sensor = 44C

    Gaming Load (Rainbow Six Siege)
    Motherboard sensor = 45C (52C Max)
    CPU sensor = 68C (82C Max)

    Are these temperatures abnormal or normal?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  10. duke00

    duke00 n00b

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    we need your fan rpm to the temps to say yes or no ^^
     
  11. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    Both Noctua A9x14's spinning at 2200RPMS
     
  12. DermicSavage

    DermicSavage [H]ard|Gawd

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    So I'm really late to the party here, but I'm planning a new Ryzen build and see the A4 SFX is all out of stock now in the US. Is there a common schedule of production runs for this case?
     
  13. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Buy it from Overclocker UK, from what I understand their shipping to the US is very fast.
     
  14. DermicSavage

    DermicSavage [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thank you! I have an order in with them now.
     
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  15. ManaNeko

    ManaNeko n00b

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    For those interested in making a Ryzen 3900X build. You might want to have a look at this.
     
  16. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Today I tested the PCIe 4.0 compatibility with all A4-SFX generations and here are the results:

    a4sfx-riserckjpe.jpg

    Windows 10 crashed with a blue screen directly after the boot logo on the v3 and v4 risers. Only the 3M Twin Axial riser was able to handle PCIe 4.0.
    I made a 6 hours benchmark run through Futuremark, Valley Benchmark and some games without a problem. So if you have a v3 and v4 case, don't worry just setup PCIe link speed gen3 in UEFI. Currently the performance loss is 0%.

    Tomorrow I will do some thermal test on the Ryzen 3700X.
     
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  17. Dadebraafsie

    Dadebraafsie n00b

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    hello all ,

    ive made a new build yesterday , with an 3700x , aorus x570 mobo , aorus gen4 M.2 ,corsair lpx and gtx1080 .
    as a cooler ive used the alpenfohn blackridge .
    trying to mount the cooler on that mobo seemed to be real horror . the supplied AM4 mounting brackets and screws dont fit nicely or give you a secure feel.
    first you have to remove the oem backplate and plastic brackets from amd 's cooler . your left with 4 bare holes to put small screws through . you have way too much play with small screws and big holes .
    also the height of the alpenfohn brackets is very high , there absolutly no self centering of the whole mounting problem . all in all it looks very crappy for a cooler being designed for this case :s

    then problem nr 2 , but that more gigabyte related .

    the aorus m2 does fit the m.2A socket thats just above the x570chip . they've came with a two way alu chipsetcooler with fan , and the m2 sits inbetween the two cooler parts .
    BUT : the M2's alu heatsink is a good 2 mm too tall , you can mount the top cooler part but it doesnt make contact with the lower part anymore . so your heatsink is way less efficient .


    after some thougts i lefft the upper part away from the system and put an extra cooler on top of the alpenfohn ( stock cooler doesnt cut it ) blackridge.jpeg . not 100 percent satisfied but its doable ,
    the cpu coolers flow blows over the M2/chipset combo aswell .
     
  18. Van0

    Van0 n00b

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    I too installed a 3700x and a Black Ridge with 120mm fan. In my case on the Aorus B450 board. That cooler truly is a PITA to install. firstly I had to cut off the edge of the install brackets as they were sitting on some motherboard components. Secondly, as the screws move in the bracket to accommodate AM3 motherboards, I had a bit of a slip and slide to align them with the AM4 holes. To make things more difficult, the 120mm fan is pushed over by 1-2mm as the wifi module on the motherboard is slightly longer than the other ports and was hitting. Then tightening the cooler, the brackets bent a bit so that each screw is screwed in at different amounts. I did manage to get all the screws on firmly, not too tight.

    Proceeded with reinstall of windows and tested CPU to make sure the slip and slide didn't ruin the thermal pasting. All good. At stock I get 87C in prime95 small FFTs. I reduced package power to 80W (from 88W) and now it is at 82C with <1% performance drop in Cinebench. Idle temps are a bit of a mess. Can get as low as 40C but as high as 60C. but this seems to line up with most people on r/amd. So hopefully AMD pulls their finger out with the drivers, etc.

    I'll edit with exact cinebench and max temps but so far PBO and autoOC seem to have no effect. Probably due to the power limit and slight throttling at high temps. Might make a difference to those with the 92mm AIO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  19. Dadebraafsie

    Dadebraafsie n00b

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    blackridge2.jpeg i partly solved the problem and used the original backplate , ive used the oem screws from two two plastic halves and put them with washers into the blackridge brackets . this way the cooler is fastened properly onto the mobo .
    you also bend your mobo way less the tricky parts is to fasten the two bolts under the heatsink , had to force a small screwdriver through the fins
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  20. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Is it true that in V4, the PSU mount is raised 5mm to allow for easier installation of the 92mm AIO? I've read that in a few places, but the change isn't listed on SFFLab or Dan's website and looking at the case, the PSU mount doesn't seem to have moved. Can anyone clarify?
     
  21. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    It was a change Dan wanted to implement but was unable to due so due to certain constraints.
     
  22. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    I see. Yeah, I struggled to imagine how it would be possible. It's too bad, it was the change I was most excited about. Seems like the 645LT isn't really that much easier to mount than the 545LC, though the improvements help a little. I blame Corsair's cables, why do they have to be so insanely stiff for an SFF product, it makes no sense. Custom sleeved cables are even bulkier.
     
  23. Dawelio

    Dawelio n00b

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    Bit late to the party here I see, so a bit of a long shot, but is the V2 still available perhaps?...

    May I ask, why go for the 3800X over the 3700X? You'll pay more for essentially the exact same performance. Even going with the hotter chip (65W TDP for the 3700X and 105W TDP on the 3800X). And also why get an X570 board and not X470 instead? Is PCI 4.0 really that necessary for you? If not, then go for an X470 board and save some cash, as well as some small chipset fan headaches.

    May I ask, why did you decide to switch from USB 3.0 port to USB Type-C?...
     
  24. Aegelward

    Aegelward n00b

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    How easy is it adding a fan below the motherboard in a Dan V2 or is it worth upgrading to a V4?
     
  25. Dawelio

    Dawelio n00b

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    As far as my understanding goes, the dimensions of the case itself are the same and hence will be the same difficulty in the V4 as in the V2.
     
  26. Aegelward

    Aegelward n00b

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    t
    Oh Ok, for some reason i was under the impression the motherboard had been raised a few mm to accommodate a fan underneath it.
     
  27. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    According to the v4 change log: 92mm fan mount point under the motherboard
     
  28. nve

    nve n00b

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    I have just finished installing the Black Ridge in my A4 v2 case with the Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM fan configured in pull mode (it's pushing the air from the inside of the case towards the side panel). I have a SuperMicro C7Z370-CG-IW board with an 8700 (stock, not delided) together with 2x Supermicro 16GB 288-Pin DDR4 2666 (PC4-2666) Server Memory (MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU26) VLP memory. I had to remove the VRM cooler from the motherboard and I replaced it with smaller height copper heatsinks, as you can see from the photos. I have also installed SilverStone heatsink on the 970 Pro.
    I have also installed an NF-A9 PWM under the Corsair SF600 power supply configured to pull the air under the case into the case itself.
    I have not undervolted the CPU (I'm not sure which setting in the board's BIOS is responsible for it).

    Currently, I am able to have the CPU run at a multiplier of 36 with EIST and Turbo Mode active. I've tested this configuration with OCCT running with AVX Linpack for 30 minutes and 90% Memory used. The CPU, according to HWMonitor, used 67 W of power and reached a temperature of 77 degrees C, all while the fans were running at maximum RPM (approx 1860).

    If I go further with the multiplier to 37, then my CPU consumes 71 W of power and the same test run does not finish, because the CPU goes over the 85 degrees C threshold. A similar situation appears for a multiplier of 38, where the CPU consumes 80 W of power.

    I have the following questions:
    Can I expect better temps with this cooler?
    Have I installed it correctly? I've used the ThermalGrizzly Kryonaut paste.
    Can anyone point me to the right setting in the stuffy SuperMicro BIOS to undervolt the CPU, if that will help with the temps?
    I have set Power Limit 1 to 65W and Power Limit 2 to 95W in the BIOS.

    Any suggestions you may have are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
     

    Attached Files:

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  29. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    Fan mounting points were added. The only complication I faced with a v2 was having to reconfigure/bend the v2 PCIE riser cable so that the bend is more flush with the edge of the motherboard tray.
     
  30. Van0

    Van0 n00b

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    That's push mode. Meaning pushing air through the radiator. You'll get better performance in pull mode, pulling fresh air through the side panel and heatsink. I also got improved temps sealing the gap between the fan and heatsink. You can use electrical tape or make a paper shroud, etc.
     
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  31. JD21

    JD21 n00b

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    Hi, I've been reading through this thread trying to find a good CPU cooler, I've got an Alienware X51 R2 that I've upgraded with an ASUS GTX 1070 Turbo (which runs great in this case to my surprise), but I've been trying to find a solution for my i7-4790 as the stock cooler is usually around 65-70°C playing BF1 and I read on another forum about a guy that used a Thermalright AXP-100 Muscle and got good results in his X51 R2.

    I recently bought a Thermalright AXP-100H Muscle as it's the only AXP-100 model I could find that didn't cost a fortune in $AUD, however it's not working out as I had hoped.

    With the side panel off, I've mounted the fan under the fins to push air up through the fins but that was worse than stock, I've mounted the fan on top to pull and get around the 60°C area but the height of this cooler only gives the fan about 5mm of clearance when the side panel is on and gets too hot 75°C+, with the fan on top set to push, the environment in the case gets too hot 75°C+.

    As this case doesn't have the greatest airflow, the stock cooler is made to pull air through the heatsink and exhaust out the back with an air shroud, I've read that the LP53 is good as well as the L9i so I was thinking that I could either get one of those and set the fan to pull and use the stock air shroud to exhaust or perhaps all I need is just a better fan for the stock heatsink?

    The X51 R3 has a Dell AIO liquid cooler made for this system but those AIO units are around $285AUD!!!

    Sorry if I haven't written clear enough or not the place to ask this, but this thread has a lot to do with small form factor CPU cooling so I thought I'd post here. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  32. mirgus

    mirgus Limp Gawd

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    The thermal design is horrible. I think the best cooling results u will get, with a cooler that is using the stock shroud. Otherwise the perfomance will be worse when the sidepanel is closed. So if u dont want to modify the case, try to stick with the stock shroud. Just swapping the fan will probably make your setup more quiet but i dont think that the cooling perfomance would increase.

    The only thing is see as an improvement would be a cooler with similar size, which can still use the stock shroud an some additional 40mm fans at the back of the case

    BTW u get the dell water cooling setup for much cheapter! around 50$
     
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  33. JD21

    JD21 n00b

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    Thank you for your very informative answer :)

    Yea that's what I was thinking, if the L9i or LP53 gave a bit better performance I should hopefully be able to fit the stock air shroud on top, which of those two has been the best or are they both equal? :) Anyone interested in buying a Thermalright AXP-100H Muscle in Australia?

    Where have you seen the Dell X51 R3 water cooling unit for $50? Do you have a link? :-D
     
  34. Van0

    Van0 n00b

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    I've had both coolers before, with the LP53 fan replaced with the Noctua 92mm PWM and the LP53 performs slightly better temp wise. Definitely worth a shroud as well.
     
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  35. JD21

    JD21 n00b

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    Sound promising, what was your idle & load temps and with what CPU and case? :)
     
  36. JD21

    JD21 n00b

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    Well... I put the stock heatsink back on and changed the stock fan with an Xbox 360 Slim fan and it's about 5 - 10°C ish cooler and quieter than the stock fan :-D
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  37. PalaSicka

    PalaSicka n00b

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    I don't like this setup. I think it can't work in DAN case, unless you custom-seal it, which is so much hassle, that any other solution is definitely better.
    1. In push config - you push case air through the heatsing, you push already very hot temp. to cool the heatsink - this won't obviously work, cause the inside temp in dan case and especially in this area can be 60+ degrees. That can't really cool anything
    2. In pull config - because it doesn't stick to the side panel, you get mixed hot air from inside the case and fresh from the side. You block part of the fan with the heatsink itself = worse efficiency (either have to run on higher speed or have worse temps). Last but not least, you will have heaps of airflow loss, because it will just go everywhere through all the other opening around the heatsink into the fan.
    20EOH09.png
     
  38. PalaSicka

    PalaSicka n00b

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    At the end of the day, I've decided to completely remove the bracket and the 120x120x2,5 mm fan. I am pretty sure it would work well with 1,4 mm fan, but the effect of the current setup is from what I see completely negligable at the cost of higher noise level.

    With that in mind!!! I am really happy I haven't installed the 120mm AIO cooling in my case, cause from what I've learned, it can very negatively affect the GPU temps.
     
  39. ranker2

    ranker2 n00b

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    Are any of the following motherboards incompatible with the Blackridge + 120mm Noctua fan + VLP RAM:

    ASRock-Z390M-ITX-AC
    Gigabyte Z390 I AORUS PRO WiFi
    MSI MPG Z390I Gaming Edge AC
    ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming
     
  40. m-jeri

    m-jeri [H]Lite

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    Time for me to show my build.

     
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