DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

kingtron said:
Nice ! Keep us updated please , one more question , which motherboard you will going to use ? Some boards needs a mosfets heatsink replacment if you going to use the 120mm fan
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I tried a set of Crucial VLP DDR4 (CT16G4XFD824A 2x16GB). It runs fine with both 7700K/Z270I and 1700/X370GTN. stressapptest stable at DDR4-2666 14-14-14-34-1T 1.35V with tight secondary/tertiary timings. Not great, but it's ECC Micron memory and I'm surprised it even works. Probably a decent match for dondan's cooler with a slim 120mm fan. In the ideal world we'd have some B-Die VLP sticks.
AIDA64 (median of 3 runs, stock 7700K/Z270I):

Crucial VLP (2x16GB DDR4-2666 14-14-14-34-1T):
Read/Write/Copy/Latency: 39791 MB/s, 41603 MB/s, 39012 MB/s, 45.4 ns

G.Skill B-Die (2x8GB DDR4-4133 16-18-18-38-2T):
Read/Write/Copy/Latency: 57307 MB/s, 62272 MB/s, 51561 MB/s, 37.4 ns

To give you an idea of how small these are:
001_comparison.jpg 002_nh-l12.jpg
 
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Here is a small preview of my tests today with the HSLP-48. (Copper vs. Alu)

The benefits of copper vs. alu will be smaller on lower RPMs.

i7 5820K default clock (3,4Ghz) and volatage, Room temp 25

HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2400RPM...|...63,8°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2400RPM...|...67,2°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2000RPM...|...66,5°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2000RPM...|...69,3°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1600RPM...|...70,2°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1600RPM...|...72,8°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1400RPM...|...75°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1400RPM...|...77°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1200RPM...|...80,5°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1200RPM...|...82,3°C

In the middle of all values the difference is 2,52°C (max 3,4°C, low 1,8°C)
 
Just had a thought, with the large mounting of the AM4 chips, would having a 120mm fan on the underside be more practical?
 
Has anybody tried how the new Noctua fan performs on the NH-L9i? I think the additional airflow could help to cool other components like the PSU and chipset.
 
ceski
Thanks for the update, can you please share the vlp ram part number (Micron part number not Crucial) (on the left sticker)
Because I was thinking of this one:
MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU24
From here
And I was wondering if it is the same

IMG_2236.JPG
 
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kingtron said:
ceski
Thanks for the update, can you please share the vlp ram part number (Micron part number not Crucial) (on the right sticker start with MTA.
Because I was thinking of this one:
MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU24
From here
And I was wondering if it is the same

View attachment 27100
Click to expand...
Yeah, no problem. In the spoiler:
Big:
001_big.jpg

Micron chips:
002_chip.jpg

EEPROM dump from Thaiphoon Burner:
snap67201773647PM.png
 
ceski
Thank you
Yours (Crucial CT16G4XFD824A)
Is:
18ADF2G72AZ-2G3A1

Same as ( Micron MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU24)
18ADF2G72AZ-2G3B1

I think both are the same, since Crucial is out of stock in most stores, so this will be a good alternative.

If you google search 18ADF2G72AZ-2G3B1

you will find prople using it succesufly on Ryzen also !
 
dondan said:
Here is a small preview of my tests today with the HSLP-48. (Copper vs. Alu)

The benefits of copper vs. alu will be smaller on lower RPMs.

i7 5820K default clock (3,4Ghz) and volatage, Room temp 25

HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2400RPM...|...63,8°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2400RPM...|...67,2°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2000RPM...|...66,5°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...2000RPM...|...69,3°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1600RPM...|...70,2°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1600RPM...|...72,8°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1400RPM...|...75°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1400RPM...|...77°C
HSLP-48 Copper...|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1200RPM...|...80,5°C
HSLP-48 Alu.........|...TY-100...|...Pull...|...1200RPM...|...82,3°C

In the middle of all values the difference is 2,52°C (max 3,4°C, low 1,8°C)
Click to expand...

2 degrees is also like the difference between two random fans, and maybe like a rough uneven base versus a smooth fitted base. and maybe even between the two samples from two different companies. so if we want to maximize performance, we will add up all these small differences and have the best cooler.

but we can also see why heatsinks don't use copper fins often. 2 degrees is not very much. most people would rather save $20. and more people will buy the less expensive cooler.

if the aluminum dan heatsink is a lot better than noctua, cryorig, and intel and amd box coolers, then I think dan has a big victory on his hands...
 
I'll still pay for the copper, 3-degrees is worth it, especially for those of us who go so far as to delid our processors.
 
Bad news – from hero to zero :(

Today I made some tests of the HSLP-48 against the Thermalright AXP 100H and Dynatron T318 all with TY-100 fan. I did all tests on an open bench table and not inside the A4-SFX. In my last post I wrote the HSLP-48 is ~15°C better as the T318, but I made this statement based on the values I had in my memory of the T318 mount inside the case. It looks like these values aren’t comparable with the values on an open bench test. On an open bench table the difference is only 2°C (63,8°C vs. 66°C). Wow this is a real setback. I think it could be different inside the case, because the T318 recycle a lot of air.

Also it looks like the AXP-100 and AXP-100H both with the TY-100 fan on top performing 4-5°C better than the HSLP-48. Maybe it was a wrong decision to select 4 heatpipes instead of 6. Keep in mind the AXP-100 has a height of 58mm and the AXP-100H of 65mm and will not fit inside the A4-SFX or Sentry.

On weekend I will get a rent setup (i7 7700k and MSI H110I PRO) from Caseking. Before I order more parts I will start with a test HSLP-48 vs. C7 to see if it is worth to continue. I will also do some tests mounting the parts inside the case to see if the heatsink will perform better, because it recycle less air.

But it looks like I have to go back to the drawing board and create a version with 6 heatpipes. I think the problem is not the surface because it is big enough but maybe the 4 heatpipes are too slow in transfer heat.

Maybe the CoolJag samples are better, but I don’t believe in this.
 
Why are all 6700k temp. readings got deleted on the google sheets. Instead of putting old readings in a tab for itself.
 
kingtron: I think I am on a good way and don't need to change the manufacturer. I will optimise the current design to 6 heatpipes. Maybe i will order two samples with different fin spacing. ;)
 
Why are all 6700k temp. readings got deleted on the google sheets. Instead of putting old readings in a tab for itself.
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More details please. I could recover all the data.
 
dondan said:
I did all tests on an open bench table and not inside the A4-SFX.

Also it looks like the AXP-100 and AXP-100H both with the TY-100 fan on top performing 4-5°C better than the HSLP-48.
Click to expand...

These tests are not relevant because no one will run your heatsink outside your case! :) And no one cares how it runs with a fan on top for the same reason. It only fits in your case with the fan on the bottom!

The whole reason your heatsink design is by far the best for your case is because 1) it is sized perfectly for maximum efficiency, 2) the fan is the maximum distance possible away from the door to minimize noise, 3) the fins act as a duct, allowing pull/suck mode to work even better than push/blow mode.

That said, I won't say "no" to trying another sample with 6 heatpipes! ;)
 
bAMtan2 said:
These tests are not relevant because no one will run your heatsink outside your case! :) And no one cares how it runs with a fan on top for the same reason. It only fits in your case with the fan on the bottom!

The whole reason your heatsink design is by far the best for your case is because 1) it is sized perfectly for maximum efficiency, 2) the fan is the maximum distance possible away from the door to minimize noise, 3) the fins act as a duct, allowing pull/suck mode to work even better than push/blow mode.

That said, I won't say "no" to trying another sample with 6 heatpipes! ;)
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty others who will use this heatsink outside of this case. A good bunch of those people will also opt to use the fan on top as the dan a4 is not the only sffpc out there. Aaaaaand I'm pretty sure they will work pretty well in push pull config.
 
ceski said:
kingtron, slim 120mm clearance:

Config 1 (X370GTN, VLP DDR4, Nexus LOW-7000 R2, Nexus AM3 Bracket, Scythe SY1212SL12H-P):
View attachment 27235 View attachment 27236

Config 2 (X370GTN, VLP DDR4, Nexus LOW-7000 R2, Thermalright AM4 Bracket, Noctua NF-A12x15):
View attachment 27237 View attachment 27238
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I wish I had never seen this, must resist low profile ram... seriously though this looks awesome, did you have to remove the led heatsink near the usb IO ports or does it fit underneath? I have the same board...
 
I'm currently using the X370GTN together with a Cryorig C7 (using the NF-A9x14) on my Ryzen 1600. The temps are fine as I'm not overclocking (full load ~78C in OCCT using large data set. I think it was ~82C using medium data set). In idle the temps are like ~48C. I haven't gotten my new GPU yet so I'm using my old Radeon 280 that doesn't have a backplate. The temps on the GPU is ~75C in full load. The CPU cooler and the GPU cooler is very quiet in idle.

But my problem is that the PSU (SF450) starts it's fan after a short while even if I'm not doing anything. Might it be the heat from the back of the GPU that's causing this as it doesn't have a backplate? I think I remember people saying that you could use a small piece of the packaging from the PSU as isolation between the PSU and the GPU to prevent this? If so, I might try it out when I finally receive my new GPU that has a backplate.

I'm not all that happy about contacting the retailer about getting a replacement if it could be fixed somehow. I don't want to be without a working PC :)
 
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richiegore said:
I wish I had never seen this, must resist low profile ram... seriously though this looks awesome, did you have to remove the led heatsink near the usb IO ports or does it fit underneath? I have the same board...
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If you use a 12-13mm thick fan, it's a perfect fit. If you use a 15mm fan like the A12x15, it won't work in Config 1 (hits the 24-pin ATX cable) or sticks out a bit in Config 2. It's not required, but you can swap out the LED heatsink with something shorter to make it align better in Config 2 (as pictured).

kingtron said:
ceski
Thanks !
How did you attached the Nexus to the X370GTN ? Thermalright's retention kit ?
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Config 1: I used the AM3 hardware included with the Nexus. All AM4 motherboards ship with clip-style mounting adapters pre-installed above and below the socket which means a lot of old coolers work fine.

Config 2: I asked Thermalright for an AM4 mounting kit and it works fine (AXP-100H style).
 
A4-SFX v2 Kickstarter campaign passed half a million euros today, congrats dondan! I'm sure store orders could be nailed within a week or so as well!

Would be amazing if production could be moved forward a bit so that people could get their cases before x-mas! ;)
 
solidus2 said:
A4-SFX v2 Kickstarter campaign passed half a million euros today, congrats dondan! I'm sure store orders could be nailed within a week or so as well!

Would be amazing if production could be moved forward a bit so that people could get their cases before x-mas! ;)
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It's mainly down to 3M producing the risers.
 
PowerfulSFF said:
It's mainly down to 3M producing the risers.
Click to expand...

But if he are confident he can order the 3M ricers earlier and get out the cases to end customers to Christmas maybe :)

Im sure if Dondan order alot of extra ricers and ramped up the production he could sell the extra cases that got left over in the stores.

Because alot of people dont like to wait and are the Case avaible on Overclockers and Casking and they could buy it imeditly they will sell.
 
It seems a lot of alternitive PCI risers are coming onto the market from the likes of Silverstone, Lian-Li and Ryjintek, If they can deliver same/similar performance to the 3M for less, would they be worthy of consideration?
 
Aegelward said:
It seems a lot of alternitive PCI risers are coming onto the market from the likes of Silverstone, Lian-Li and Ryjintek, If they can deliver same/similar performance to the 3M for less, would they be worthy of consideration?
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I would not like to gamble on PCI risers. They have to transfer 16x 8Gb/s while delivering 75W of power. Put the price in perspective of the price of your graphics card. Are you really willing to cheap out on a riser that may cripple your 700$ GPU?

To me, the Dan case, and the popularity of similar designs, using risers, shows that the layout of mini-ITX is just wrong, and GPUs should have the components on the other side of the PCB. Not likely that will happen soon, but one can dream.
 
http://store.supermicro.com/92mm-fan-0145l4.html
I found this 11.500rpm cpu fan and also saw it on linustechtips. The question is if it will fit into the case (v.1). Since the asetec aio is not gonna fit due to missing vents&screwholes i believe this fan could give a 15-20% temp drop into my system. Currently i'm running a 7700k delid at 4.8GHz with temps around 85C (10min. Prime)
 
pionir said:
http://store.supermicro.com/92mm-fan-0145l4.html
I found this 11.500rpm cpu fan and also saw it on linustechtips. The question is if it will fit into the case (v.1). Since the asetec aio is not gonna fit due to missing vents&screwholes i believe this fan could give a 15-20% temp drop into my system. Currently i'm running a 7700k delid at 4.8GHz with temps around 85C (10min. Prime)
Click to expand...


I'm gaaaaaaming, on a jet plane. Don't know when temps 'll drop again.
 
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pionir said:
http://store.supermicro.com/92mm-fan-0145l4.html
I found this 11.500rpm cpu fan and also saw it on linustechtips. The question is if it will fit into the case (v.1). Since the asetec aio is not gonna fit due to missing vents&screwholes i believe this fan could give a 15-20% temp drop into my system. Currently i'm running a 7700k delid at 4.8GHz with temps around 85C (10min. Prime)
Click to expand...
Have you ever wanted to be in a room with a loud and never ending roar of a small little 92mm fan running at 11.5K RPM?! Well if you do it can be all yours for as little as 3 payments of $10.15! Call now at 1-408-503-8000 today!!!
 
you can get em cheaper if you google the pn#: PFR0912XHE-CX20 but I wouldn't try and run them off a normal fan header, they take 4.5 amps!

oh and linus just happened to put up a vid of it. so you can hear it!! not sure why he paid over $50 for it!?
 
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