DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

David A4

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Dec 29, 2016
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Anyone made any advancements on that mentioned acrylic side panel extension? at least a template file?
 

illram

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Also on stock they are not comparable. Some chips become hotter than other.


If they made every test on the same CPU it isn't worthless, because you will see what heatsink is the best. But you have no guarantee that also if you have the same CPU and ambient temp, that you will get the same temps.

I agree there must be some variation, and that's why sites like anandtech and frostytech don't use real off the shelf chips in CPU tests. I just think 20 degrees is too high. Different processors abilities to hit certain clocks at certain voltages and the heat they emit varies, that's true. But at stock settings my understanding is different chips perform mostly similar such that a 20 degrees total swing seems pretty huge, especially while trying to maintain roughly the same voltages and clock speeds. If two 7700K chips both can hit 4.5ghz (stock turbo speed) at 1.136v for example, assuming same cooler, same case, same benchmark, same RAM voltages and timings, proper mounting, etc., what would account for a 20 degree swing? That's a big difference.

That would, to me, make cooler reviews using real CPU's worse than useless and actually totally misleading. So throw Tweaktown out the window for example. Or your CPU cooler reviews, where you had a bunch of coolers within 20 degrees of one another. If what you're saying is true, had you simply swapped out a different chip of the exact same model, all of the coolers could have potentially tested wildly differently either hotter or cooler, which would completely re-arrange your chart. I don't think that's the case--I think your tests are more or less accurate and are holding up with the consensus in the thread from other users. You can see in the spreadsheet also that at the same voltages, assuming the users correctly input their vcore and temps, temps are roughly similar with the same coolers and same chips and same test conditions. (At least, not 20 degree differences!)

I would guess, even with variations in thermal application and proper mounting, you see maybe tops 5 degree swing in either direction. I'd be concerned if I consistently was getting over 5-10 degrees on the same cooler and the same CPU, at the same voltages and clocks, etc., unless I knew there was something unique about my setup, like worse air flow or something.
 
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dondan

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I had a focus on that topic in the sandy bridge and ivy bridge time. I was very active in the overclocking scene and had 15x i5 2500k here. For example two 2500k where able to do 5 Ghz with 1,356V in Prime95 I got different temps with the same heatsink and ambient temp. But the range was max. 10°C. For sandy bridge the DIE and heatspreader was soldered, but today Intel use thermal paste. The thermal paste is the reason why the range is higher today, because sometimes it isn't attached propper.
 

dopa

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Feb 15, 2017
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The spreadsheet seems to get cleaned out, and then have everything re added, every day or so. I have no idea why.
Some people filter out some stuff in place, instead of making a copy of the page so it wouldn't affect other viewers.
 

tbooth

Weaksauce
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May 8, 2005
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Starting to regret stepping up from my 1080 superclock to 1080ti FE.... my dan case has transformed into a turbojetengine.

How is the idle noise?

I'm about to step up as well, thinking about selling it as soon as I get it and buying an SC2 or FTW if it'll fit.
 

richiegore

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Feb 1, 2017
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richiegore: The values on the list aren't compareable. Because every CPU is different also in the same series. For example: If you buy 9x i7-6700 and test it on the L9i and a9x25: three will be in the 65-70°C range, three will be in the 70-75°C range and three will be in the 75-85°C range. So you can compare only heatsinks that were tested on the same unique CPU.

The list is good for getting an idea what other users have if you trust the values.
That's true, I did say there are a lot of factors at the start, still it does seem that the l9i with a 25mm fan is a good performer, just not sure how noisy it is with the standard 7mm standoffs... Maybe I'll get a 20mm thick delta! ;-)
 

David A4

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Dec 29, 2016
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148
How is the idle noise?

I'm about to step up as well, thinking about selling it as soon as I get it and buying an SC2 or FTW if it'll fit.
It's fine in idle, but its honestly terrifying under load, thinking about replacing my heater with this card in the winter and run bench testing to keep my room warm.
 

maven1975

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May 24, 2014
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Im on the fence between a 7700K Vs 5820k build. Currently have all the parts in front of for both builds. However, Im still torn and don't want to open the wrong items.

What platform would run the best performance wise without having to babysit the thermals?

I am completely bummed to look at this 1080ti FE knowing that its just not going to work. :/ Previously, I had a Silverstone SG13 X99 build with a 1080 FE and it was fine audibly. Guess that just not the case this time around.


Thanks in advance!
 
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ReaperX22

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Oct 29, 2013
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Im on the fence between a 7700K Vs 5820k build. Currently have all the parts in front of for both builds. However, Im still torn and don't want to open the wrong items.

What platform would run the best performance wise without having to babysit the thermals?

I am completely bummed to look at this 1080ti FE knowing that its just not going to work. :/ Previously, I had a Silverstone SG13 X99 build with a 1080 FE and it was fine audibly. Guess that just not the case this time around.


Thanks in advance!

What are you using it for? Production or gaming. Or bit of both, in which case which one more frequently?

IMO a 7700k at stock (4.5ghz turbo maintained) with an undervolt will keep temps lower and maintain lower audio levels under load. And should handle everything you throw at it. The 5820k has a much lower entry clock speed and has a slower IPC as well.. So you really need to consider your use case scenario.

Me? I'd go the 7700k. But that's me. :p

EDIT:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1826?vs=1320

5820k barely wins in Cinebench.. The clock speed differential contributes here. But gives you a general idea as well.

The 5820k will be cooler running out of the box, but assuming you OC I think temps are less of your issue, and more about what's going to work better.
 
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bAMtan2

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Im on the fence between a 7700K Vs 5820k build.

I'm picky about noise. I think a small case is pointless if it's more noisy than a big case. So I think that only a 7700 (non-k) makes sense in this case, especially given the poor selection of small coolers we have available. (Intel chose the speed of the 7700 because it is very power efficient.)
 

mcheddadi

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Aug 24, 2015
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you can definitely get silence and 91W cpus .

lp53 with a nf-a9x14-pwm and you won't hear it at all. whisper quiet even with max prime95 sustained load.

lp53 can be had on ebay for a reasonable price. I got it at $48.89 shipped. and the fan is less than 20$.
 

maven1975

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May 24, 2014
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you can definitely get silence and 91W cpus .

lp53 with a nf-a9x14-pwm and you won't hear it at all. whisper quiet even with max prime95 sustained load.

lp53 can be had on ebay for a reasonable price. I got it at $48.89 shipped. and the fan is less than 20$.

I have the fan :)

What made you choose the ASUS board over the Asrock? I like the thunderbolt 3 option on the Asrock but also like the two m.2 slots on the ASUS.

Was there a definitive reason you chose ASUS?
 

maven1975

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What are you using it for? Production or gaming. Or bit of both, in which case which one more frequently?

IMO a 7700k at stock (4.5ghz turbo maintained) with an undervolt will keep temps lower and maintain lower audio levels under load. And should handle everything you throw at it. The 5820k has a much lower entry clock speed and has a slower IPC as well.. So you really need to consider your use case scenario.

Me? I'd go the 7700k. But that's me. :p

EDIT:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1826?vs=1320

5820k barely wins in Cinebench.. The clock speed differential contributes here. But gives you a general idea as well.

The 5820k will be cooler running out of the box, but assuming you OC I think temps are less of your issue, and more about what's going to work better.
I wanted to use it 80% Games/HTPC and 20% Photo/Video (Non Professional) level work.

The thought was to build something with grunt for both.

Although, it seems that without overclocking the 5820, I might be wasting cash. Im also not too sure how well this Dynatron T318 will cool a OC 5820k anyways...
 

ReaperX22

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Oct 29, 2013
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I wanted to use it 80% Games/HTPC and 20% Photo/Video (Non Professional) level work.

The thought was to build something with grunt for both.

Although, it seems that without overclocking the 5820, I might be wasting cash. Im also not too sure how well this Dynatron T318 will cool a OC 5820k anyways...

7700k sounds like the goods to me! If you haven't already got them, the 7700 non k may even be an option as someone mentioned above.. 4.2ghz turbo is still plenty for everything.. Runs cooler and in turn, quieter in theory than the 7700k. Also able to be undervolted. I personally wouldn't bother with X99.
 

maven1975

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May 24, 2014
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7700k sounds like the goods to me! If you haven't already got them, the 7700 non k may even be an option as someone mentioned above.. 4.2ghz turbo is still plenty for everything.. Runs cooler and in turn, quieter in theory than the 7700k. Also able to be undervolted. I personally wouldn't bother with X99.
I will stick with the 7700k if I can keep it cool at stock.

Might as well get the higher frequency.

Unless I'm missing something
 

Doosh

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Apr 5, 2017
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Update:

A4-SFX v.2.0 and window kits will be available in may 2017 on Kickstarter!


Because I have so many interests on that case, I will do a second Kickstarter campaign for version 2.0 end of May 2017. Also the window kit will be available in this campaign. If you already have a spot on Caseking or Overclockers.uk don't worry you will also get the version 2.0. But my resellers aren’t able to make a order that everyone will get a case, so I will be on Kickstarter again to give everybody the chance to get an A4-SFX case.

I think this will your last chance to get an 100% guaranteed spot for an A4-SFX, because I will focus on a new project after this and maybe only a few will find a way on retail market in 2018.(The new project will not be finished before end 2018)

The price for the A4-SFX v 2.0 will the identical to 2016.

Regards
Daniel

Hi Daniel

The new project after A4-SFX v2 that you mention, will that be another PC case? Are you able to provide details on you next project?

In terms of the A4-SFX case, for a hi-end gaming PC rig, do you have a component list that you could recommend for build?

Thanks
D
 

dondan

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The new project after A4-SFX v2 that you mention, will that be another PC case? Are you able to provide details on you next project?

Yes it will be a itx case. I will give you more information in summer 2017.


In terms of the A4-SFX case, for a hi-end gaming PC rig, do you have a component list that you could recommend for build?

Here are recomendet configurations (waiting on Ryzen ITX):

Pricebreaker: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-678544
Performance: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-678542
High-End: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-677321
Enthusiast: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-677324
 

phoxx

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Jun 6, 2016
Messages
36
So since I have been waiting for M-itx boards to come out for AM4. I have been looking at undervolting for the 1800X.

Then I came across this:



Left side is volts, Top is speed in mhz and the numbers throughout are in watts.

If I can lock in a high of 3.7 ghz @ 1.1 volts, I would be happy with the 79 watts useage.

I will probably first just start out undervolting without changing any speeds to see how my chip does.
 
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antioch

Limp Gawd
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Jan 4, 2006
Messages
337
Has anyone found a good replacement power button/switch yet? If so, would you mind sharing, please?
 

Trudy

n00b
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Feb 15, 2017
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Can I get your 2 cents on Dynatron T318 versus Cooltek LP53?
What i can gather it seems Dynatron has more mass?
 

Vlad502

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
67
I have a little project in hands, I'm planning on getting liquid cooling inside a4-sfx.

The goal is to fit it in 47mm of total height.


-------------------------------------------

Notes:


· Extra milimeters are used for the cpu block mount, so no milimeters left,
· Using a naked cpu may save 1 or 2 mm more.
· Inserting the fan in the rad bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm or simply using a gpu fan.
· Cutting the rads metal bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm (or fitting silversonte 22mm rad)



What do you think??
- IMO radiator is small (only 80mm?), but i have no experience with water coolers (afraid of water leaking);
- Tubing result with clearance too, maybe;
- Parts in one place:
Aluminum 80mm Radiator
CPU Pure Copper Waterblock 40x40 CPU1
CPU Bracket
Syscooling SC-300T Water Cooling Pump
Tubing 8x11mm?
Total = 60 bucks (without 80mm Fan)
Price for good heatpipe cooler;
- If you decide to use naked cpu (probably Intel), you need Die Guard;
- 80mm Slim Fan -> low airflow and static pressure.
 
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Mackan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
379
Update:

A4-SFX v.2.0 and window kits will be available in may 2017 on Kickstarter!


Because I have so many interests on that case, I will do a second Kickstarter campaign for version 2.0 end of May 2017. Also the window kit will be available in this campaign. If you already have a spot on Caseking or Overclockers.uk don't worry you will also get the version 2.0. But my resellers aren’t able to make a order that everyone will get a case, so I will be on Kickstarter again to give everybody the chance to get an A4-SFX case.

I think this will your last chance to get an 100% guaranteed spot for an A4-SFX, because I will focus on a new project after this and maybe only a few will find a way on retail market in 2018.(The new project will not be finished before end 2018)

The price for the A4-SFX v 2.0 will the identical to 2016.

Regards
Daniel

Great to hear this. I assume you haven't locked down the v.2 features yet? Will the extra spot for a 92mm fan be there? Is it possible to source shorter USB internal cable from Lian Li? Or do they need to be ordered in bulk as well?
 

phoxx

n00b
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
36
So since I have been waiting for M-itx boards to come out for AM4. I have been looking at undervolting for the 1800X.

Then I came across this:



Left side is volts, Top is speed in mhz and the numbers throughout are in watts.

If I can lock in a high of 3.7 ghz @ 1.1 volts, I would be happy with the 79 watts useage.

I will probably first just start out undervolting without changing any speeds to see how my chip does.


Oh and by the way, this was 100% on all cores.
 

Lazer1337

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
305
- IMO radiator is small (only 80mm?), but i have no experience with water coolers (afraid of water leaking);
- Tubing result with clearance too, maybe;
- Parts in one place:
Aluminum 80mm Radiator
CPU Pure Copper Waterblock 40x40 CPU1
CPU Bracket
Syscooling SC-300T Water Cooling Pump
Tubing 8x11mm?
Total = 60 bucks (without 80mm Fan)
Price for good heatpipe cooler;
- If you decide to use naked cpu (probably Intel), you need Die Guard;
- 80mm Slim Fan -> low airflow and static pressure.
80mm rad is sufficient for cpu alone.
 

Ozymandias

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
1,610
I have a little project in hands, I'm planning on getting liquid cooling inside a4-sfx.

The goal is to fit it in 47mm of total height.



I've found all the parts on internet!!:

· Rad: 106x81x25



It can be modified to be to be thinner by cutting the metal bezel, but it fits as it is.
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...oling-system-devices/1358964_32263003396.html

There is a silverstone rad that's slimmer (22mm) and bigger that may fit over the ram using a smaller fan:


http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=598&area=en


· Fan: 80x80x10mm fan


It fit as it is, but Im planning on cutting all the plastic housing to insert it in the metal bezel of the rad to save some mm for better breathing. Ty100 may fit also modding it.
Cc.porsche.com/icc_euro/ccCall.do?rt=1490866599&screen=1920x1080&userID=SGS&lang=sp&PARAM=parameter_internet_sp&ORDERTYPE=991110&MODELYEAR=2018&hookURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.porsche.com%2fspain%2fmodelstart%2f



· Cpu Block: 40x40x10mm


I've found this block, it's made out of copper, so it can be used with liquid metal thermal paste. There are a few better 10mm cpu blocks out there, atached to liquid pump kits, but this one is sold separately,
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/For-...ics-GPU-Endothermic-Head-Hot/32687537364.html

----------------------------------

Total height: 25+10+10=45mm

It fits over the cpu




· Pump:



The pump can fit below the cpu behing the power supply's cables.
I'm researching for the better pump, I think that anyone may fit.


-------------------------------------------

Notes:


· Extra milimeters are used for the cpu block mount, so no milimeters left,
· Using a naked cpu may save 1 or 2 mm more.
· Inserting the fan in the rad bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm or simply using a gpu fan.
· Cutting the rads metal bezel may save another 1 or 2 mm (or fitting silversonte 22mm rad)



What do you think??

That CPU block won't transfer heat to water well so I don't think it'll work for a CPU. I think you'd be better off getting an Asetek 545LC. That link also shows you what a CPU block baseplate should look like for good thermal transfer. If the radiator and a slim fan don't fit over the motherboard in the Dan A4, they should fit in the same area you want to put a pump, in the 2.5" HD bay. The biggest disadvantage I can think of is that you'll be blowing hot air at the PSU and video card so there likely wouldn't be a net decrease in noise.
 

David A4

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
148
Nvidia truly is crazy, i havent had my 1080ti for 3 days and its already obsolete with the new Titan Xp full gp102 announced today....it sits at average of 96 degrees celcius....could you imagine that in the dancase???
 

darksable

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Mar 9, 2015
Messages
431
Nvidia truly is crazy, i havent had my 1080ti for 3 days and its already obsolete with the new Titan Xp full gp102 announced today....it sits at average of 96 degrees celcius....could you imagine that in the dancase???



I wouldn't exactly call a 6-10% increase in performance for DOUBLE the already $600 pricetag something that makes your card obsolete, mate. :p

The Titan lineup is a bit of a joke - always has been. Always will be.
 

David A4

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
148
I wouldn't exactly call a 6-10% increase in performance for DOUBLE the already $600 pricetag something that makes your card obsolete, mate. :p

The Titan lineup is a bit of a joke - always has been. Always will be.
In Canadian Pesos that is an insane price, i'll just pretend that it doesnt exist to make me feel better about my purchase.
 

illram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
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If the new Xp can hit >90c°, I wonder whether this is any indication that the Ti has some headroom above it's 84° max.
 

maven1975

n00b
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May 24, 2014
Messages
32
IMG_3192.JPG
It's here!!!

I won't have my case until tomorrow, but this thing is GIGANTIC!!

Seriously doubt it's gonna fit :/

Still have my unopened Founders Edition Ti. I am really hoping this Strix will fit because I want a quieter solution.

MSI is having issues with their firmware locking the fans at 2000rpm. I remember seeing someone on this thread stating it was like a heater. That's probably the reason :)

UPDATE- Ugh!

After doing the math... it looks like the card is 7.5mm to wide. That stinks!!!!!
 
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David A4

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
148
View attachment 21296 It's here!!!

I won't have my case until tomorrow, but this thing is GIGANTIC!!

Seriously doubt it's gonna fit :/

Still have my unopened Founders Edition Ti. I am really hoping this Strix will fit because I want a quieter solution.

MSI is having issues with their firmware locking the fans at 2000rpm. I remember seeing someone on this thread stating it was like a heater. That's probably the reason :)
Im fairly certain it wont fit, its a 2.5 slot card...
 
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