Pretty cool, but I would do it the right way if I was going to do a paint job on the case. I still think a limited edition of the case would sell fast.
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DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world
- Thread starter dondan
- Start date
Hotshot619
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That's very thoroughly tested with interesting findings, I have been playing around with dropping my PSU around 32mm (1.25 inches) or even more if I remove the SSD tray entirely (would justify me getting that 960 Evo
) myself. I am thinking the TY-100 might have enough juice to affect temps. I wonder if more space might help it over the 10mm you lowered your PSU. I was also thinking what would happen if instead of treating the top fan as an exhaust as another intake. Generally speaking I don't think it would be a benefit as some of the warm air from the PSU would be recycled into the case but the cooler air from outside might offset that and be a net positive.And in my case (haha), my GPU dumps quite a fair bit of heat through that front top mesh, so an intake fan there is directly competing with the GPU exhaust, so the hot air is forced to travel out through a different vent, and travel through the case over the other components. For mine, that area is clearly naturally setup to be an exhaust location.
Having another intake in the top front might be worth a try, but not sure if it will be helpful, or rather possibly could make things worse.
a) You will be applying a positive pressure against the PSU exhaust, reducing PSU airflow
b) increased positive pressure competes with other fans trying to pull air into the case too, such as the CPU and GPU fan, so there could also be a slight detrimental effect to those fans.
Interesting thought nonetheless, and we could be surprised. You also mentioned dropping the PSU a whole inch, might help a bit too.
Having another intake in the top front might be worth a try, but not sure if it will be helpful, or rather possibly could make things worse.
a) You will be applying a positive pressure against the PSU exhaust, reducing PSU airflow
b) increased positive pressure competes with other fans trying to pull air into the case too, such as the CPU and GPU fan, so there could also be a slight detrimental effect to those fans.
Interesting thought nonetheless, and we could be surprised. You also mentioned dropping the PSU a whole inch, might help a bit too.
cowsgomoo2
Limp Gawd
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Did you notice any changes to PSU fan speed? I found that my PSU is the loudest component in the system. My GTX1060's backplate isn't touching the PSU. I was wondering if a 80x10mm fan above the PSU would draw out the hot air between the PSU and the GPU and reduce the PSU's temperature.
My PSU is one which is quite the opposite. On the Bench, the fan barely spins and it wasn't until I actively covered the intake opening and ran a full system load test for at least 30 minutes before the fan even turned on, and even then only at minimum speeds where the sticker on the fan can still be seen rotating, not yet a blur. While running in the case, I'm drawing 480 watts at the wall, and the fan only Just starts to spin up after 10 minutes, and the moment I stop furmark, the fan stops within a second. I am worried that the fan isnt running enough for my PSU. The bearings on my GPU are louder than the PSU fan.
Having an exhaust fan over the PSU will help draw some air through the PSU and should help with cooling your PSU. I am able to feel a light draft of air over the intake area for the PSU on the side panel of the case when I ran the top exhaust fan, but the PSU fan was still off. Without having your scenario to test, I would expect that it should provide some benefit for you.
My 80x10mm fan was a $5 ebay one. Took more than a month to arrive, but I ordered it long before my case arrived.
Having an exhaust fan over the PSU will help draw some air through the PSU and should help with cooling your PSU. I am able to feel a light draft of air over the intake area for the PSU on the side panel of the case when I ran the top exhaust fan, but the PSU fan was still off. Without having your scenario to test, I would expect that it should provide some benefit for you.
My 80x10mm fan was a $5 ebay one. Took more than a month to arrive, but I ordered it long before my case arrived.
You gotta fix the cheap button mate. It's literally the only thing on the case you touch on a daily basis.
Thanks everyone for all the advice. I ended up pulling it apart and I think my problem was bad thermal paste application and/or imperfect mounting of the heatsink. I re-applied using thermal grizzly kryonaut, made double sure everything was mounted right, tinkered with voltage offset and ended up around -0.075.
After running some quick stress tests temps have improved immensely, so I clearly f*ed something up before. Still idling around low 40's however under stress testing temps are maxing around 75-80 deg, whereas previously I was straight up throttling @ 100 deg within 30 seconds. Yesterday was a very hot day though, ambient temp was probably 10+ degrees higher than today.
After running some quick stress tests temps have improved immensely, so I clearly f*ed something up before. Still idling around low 40's however under stress testing temps are maxing around 75-80 deg, whereas previously I was straight up throttling @ 100 deg within 30 seconds. Yesterday was a very hot day though, ambient temp was probably 10+ degrees higher than today.
Can you post pics of external radiator?
I want to see how external radiator works with A4-SFX.
![IMG_9461[1].PNG](https://hardforum.com/data/attachment-files/2017/03/75212_IMG_94611.png "IMG_9461[1].PNG")
Photos of the top fan experimentation
PSU lowered by 10mm
Spacers for the PSU for the purposes of this test. 3mm threaded spacers. They are not screwed down on the psu end of the spacer, but the pressure applied by the cables kept it in place firmly.
80mm taped to the chassis. PSU lowered 10mm.
Tape mounting system
5mm from blades to top of Power plug.
And how it looks under the top panel. with tape
92mm Noctua. A tighter fit, and sits close to the PSU plug. PSU lowered 10mm too.
A good size for the grills, more visible than the black fan.
PSU lowered by 10mm
Spacers for the PSU for the purposes of this test. 3mm threaded spacers. They are not screwed down on the psu end of the spacer, but the pressure applied by the cables kept it in place firmly.
80mm taped to the chassis. PSU lowered 10mm.
Tape mounting system
5mm from blades to top of Power plug.
And how it looks under the top panel. with tape
92mm Noctua. A tighter fit, and sits close to the PSU plug. PSU lowered 10mm too.
A good size for the grills, more visible than the black fan.
Photos of the top fan experimentation
PSU lowered by 10mm
Spacers for the PSU for the purposes of this test. 3mm threaded spacers. They are not screwed down on the psu end of the spacer, but the pressure applied by the cables kept it in place firmly.
80mm taped to the chassis. PSU lowered 10mm.
Tape mounting system
5mm from blades to top of Power plug.
And how it looks under the top panel. with tape
92mm Noctua. A tighter fit, and sits close to the PSU plug. PSU lowered 10mm too.
A good size for the grills, more visible than the black fan.
I really really like your build! Did you unscrew the heatsink on the mosfets to fit the lp53? Or is that just not on the H97I Plus? Because I have the z97i plus, and I did unscrew it, but screwed it back in. It is a tight fit with the Lp53+a9x14 but it is really quiet.
I might redo some cabels by what is see in your pics.
I think the fan in/out is better over the mobo/gpu part instead of PSU. That's where my case is warm. On the PSU side (both in and out) is totally cold, but on the top where the mobo is, it is warm to touch.
HoodedHusky
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Since this time around you could order way higher quantity, get cheaper but still quality riser and not have some one-time fixed costs (case tooling costs, setting up the company etc.), you could probably sell it on Kickstarter for 200 eur including shipping and profit. 199 eur tag would definitely look more appealing to customers.Hi folks just because I have received in the last time a lot of mail about availability and some featurerequests and pricing questions, I thought it's about time for a status update. Unfortunately, some thread pages in future some people will not see this post, I would be grateful if you do not resent me if I quote this post to answer the questions.
- General:
Overall, the project in the four main forums has now been clicked 1.1 million times.- Availability:
I have more than 2500 registration of potential buyers on my website
(Thank you so much for that!)
In mid-year it was planned to offer the case from the beginning to the end of December on a crowdfunding platform. Meanwhile I am in contact with a large reseller who wants to market the A4-SFX in his shop. If I could make the deal, the cases will be order in early January and can be purchased from you in the store in March or April. If I could not make the deal, I'll use crowdfunding.- Sales price
The sale price will move depending on the order quantity of the reseller between 200-230$. In this price, of course, is the very high quality 3M risercabel.- Riser:
To be realistically the final price of the first series will be very close to 230$, because no reseller will be order 1000 cases in the first run from an unknown company.
To give you some insight into the pricing, I have here a short list:
(At a price of 230 incl. VAT. = 119%)
- case about 45%
- Riser 30%
- Fixed costs (replacement parts, tooling costs, lawyer's fees ,tax consultants, s.o.), shipping, my profit and profits of the reseller = about 25%
- VAT 19%
I did not calculate the development costs, the Monetary is about 3000 and thousands of hours work. The reason for the high costs on the case itself is because I did not have my own fabric where I can build the cases. At first LianLi see me as a customer, but also as an competitor so I have to pay a higher price for the case.
If I could I would like to sell the case for 100 , but desire and reality are far apart.
As riser cable I will use the cable from 3M for the first series. For later series, it may be that I will use the new secret LianLi cable. However, this results in high tooling costs for adjustments to the PCB so that is the same as the 3M one. Producing a prototype with this exact PCB will need more time, so I choose the 3M one. The priced difference will be $ 20 between the cables, therefore, the new cable will not make the case much cheaper. By the way I'm not allowed to show pictures of the new riser yet
- Feature Request
I am grateful for every idea that you have to improve the product. However, these ideas are no longer included in the current revision from now, because the current revision is final. Maybe some ideas will be implemented in future revisions. [/ Indent]
- ToDo
currently I work on the user manual. This will be completed in 1-2 weeks and I'll then upload it on my website. Of course it will be included with the final case.
If my 2011 Narrow Ilm Bracket of Asetek will arrives next week for my Corsair H110, I will publish a tutorial on how to use an AIO water cooling external WITHOUT modding with the A4-SFX.
Thank you for reading and for the many interests here in the forum.
Many greetings
Daniel Hansen
Photos of the top fan experimentation
PSU lowered by 10mm
Very, very nice!
So to the obvious question: what are your results regarding temps from this?
EDIT: just read your prior post, good thinking! I'm going to put one fan pushing air into the top of the PSU and test a second above the CPU pulling out of the case.
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drklu
2[H]4U
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That wasn't my system, just commenting on how it was done.
Thank you for your excellent research! It is clear that dan's case was perfectly designed from the beginning. The problem is we don't have the perfect parts for it. I believe the large GPU heatsinks that fit tightly are quite perfect. But to balance the 2-3 large fans on that side of the case, we need a large and perfectly configured CPU fan on the other side.
It is my understanding that fans perform better pushing against something, rather than pulling against something. That's why we attach fans to heatsinks to blow on them, rather than to case doors to pull through them. So I wonder if anyone has tried a large thin fan (maybe SST-FN123 or R4-XFXS-16PK-R1 ) blowing onto a small heatsink (L9i) with custom ducts (made of tape or paper?) both between the heatsink and the fan, and again between the fan and the case vents.
Not too pretty at the moment but it'll all be mounted to my wall or desk eventually. (Also this isn't my usual desk in the pics).
I Still stand by my theory that extending the bottom vents across the whole bottom plate and giving the ssd tray an option to mount a fan is the best option.
The installation of a fan over the back area had no benefit in my testing, and I suspect mostly because the amount of airflow from my GPU is greater than what the 80x10 could push, and therefore it was not helpful, except that it made more noise!
I would not say that pushing is better than pulling, technically a fan in a tube would have just as much airflow on the intake as the exhaust, but without the tube, the airflow pattern is quite different between the intake and exhaust, especially if the fan is partially obstructed at the intake side. Intake can be thought of as air coming in from various directions, but generally smooth and converging towards the fan. The exhaust in free air could be somewhere between a column of air to almost only outward directed air. Fan blades that are heavily forward raked tend to be better at providing a column of air as the forward rake helps to pull air inward toward the hub. Obstructions on the fan intake prevent smoother laminar flow over the blades, so the blades stall and it becomes more of an impeller spinning outwards. A fan can be more effective blowing air onto a heatsink because it has more turbulence which helps to increase the transfer of heat from the heatsink surface to the air. There are many factors at play, so its not always as simple as that.
Regarding ducting, that is definitely what I plan to do for my dan case once I have the fans I want and have time to work on my build more. My NCase M1 has cardboard ducting that has worked very well for the noisy silverstone PSU. If we are talking a few mm, the quickest and easiest way to seal a fan to a surface is to use stickytape where 2-3mm of its edge is stuck onto the edge of a fan say, and then folded over and stuck back onto itself and the last 2-3mm back onto the fan or cardboard edge. This can create a self adjusting flexible seal that can meet up with the side panel.
I too am tempted to install a fan in the bottom, but I need to weigh that up against; 1) Cutting the case, 2) needing to lift the case up at least another 5+mm to give the bottom fan some room to breathe, 3) the amount of air a 92mm fan can push might not be that substancial. Maybe if I get my GT92x25mm in the bottom that might make a bigger difference, but theres still the issue of suffocating the fan and reducing efficacy. Would just love the idea of pushing out all the hot air from the front of the case, and out the back.
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Julio Espinosa
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dondan
[H]ard|Gawd
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I would buy it, no matter the price
If you could see the rendering of the concept of my next project ...
Too bad that it will take some month before I can show it
Itx30 is 1cm less heatsink than lp53, and has roughly equal performance with the a9x14 as l9i
Because the Strix offers something people prefer over the other cards? You can't be serious on asking why someone has a preference on one thing over another.
CknSalad
Limp Gawd
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Looks like until there is a new low-profile cpu cooler, the Cooltek LP53 with the Noctua slim fan is the best in terms of performance and noise.
ok I finished my build with some IMO clever routing of the sf450 cables I managed to make a pretty clean install. tried the axp-100 full copper but the only way it went in is with the motherboard plate completely off the case and with no I/O shield. this required 4 "L" bracket to suspend the motherboard and using the two bottom ones to hold the pci-e extender. this way it was flush flush flush. my zotac 1070 amp has a back plate also. I had problems fabricating the brackets so I just got tired and lazy. I gave up mid way and just used the lp53 with a noctua a9x14-pwm fan. that way I don't have to mod the case or my z270i strix motherboard. also, this combo is SILENT and best temps yet according to meccabolix.
fitting the two 2tb hhd on the bracket way pretty hard with the default power cable that came with the corsair psu, but it worked in the end pretty cleanly two. i'm running 39C temps with just booting in the motherboard on 4.120ghz speed. delidded 6700K with coolabratory liquid metal ultra on the IHS and for the lp53. more test with prime 95 when I install windows 10.
btw if anybody wants my modded full copper axp-100.
also I wanted to fit two ty-100 fan on top of the case and one bellow the motherboard, but the gap is too narrow without spacers above the psu, above the mobo the pci-e riser stopped me and bellow the mobo the opening was not big enough on the motherboard plate.
dondan if you're reading
If for dan a4-sfx v2 you could lower the 4 motherboard spacers by 3 to 4 mm so we can fit a fan above it and open the gap in the motherboard plate bellow the motherboard by maybe 3 mm to fit a ty-100 fan and lower your psu plate by 4 mm, or at least pre drill some alternative mouting holes for the motherboard spacers to lower it and for the psu to be able to mount it lower. Give us some options and let us decide if we want to compromise or not. also if you drill some vent holes bellow the hhd bracket so we can mount a fan there too.
finally you should make a 10mm wide opaque acrylic spacer strip that would have the side panel sit farther outward so we can fit up to 60mm coolers( also we could run a led strip in it for extra rgb goodness lol).
fitting the two 2tb hhd on the bracket way pretty hard with the default power cable that came with the corsair psu, but it worked in the end pretty cleanly two. i'm running 39C temps with just booting in the motherboard on 4.120ghz speed. delidded 6700K with coolabratory liquid metal ultra on the IHS and for the lp53. more test with prime 95 when I install windows 10.
btw if anybody wants my modded full copper axp-100.
also I wanted to fit two ty-100 fan on top of the case and one bellow the motherboard, but the gap is too narrow without spacers above the psu, above the mobo the pci-e riser stopped me and bellow the mobo the opening was not big enough on the motherboard plate.
dondan if you're reading
If for dan a4-sfx v2 you could lower the 4 motherboard spacers by 3 to 4 mm so we can fit a fan above it and open the gap in the motherboard plate bellow the motherboard by maybe 3 mm to fit a ty-100 fan and lower your psu plate by 4 mm, or at least pre drill some alternative mouting holes for the motherboard spacers to lower it and for the psu to be able to mount it lower. Give us some options and let us decide if we want to compromise or not. also if you drill some vent holes bellow the hhd bracket so we can mount a fan there too.
finally you should make a 10mm wide opaque acrylic spacer strip that would have the side panel sit farther outward so we can fit up to 60mm coolers( also we could run a led strip in it for extra rgb goodness lol).
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illram
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I am genuinely curious what that something is. I don't know as I haven't compared the different AIBs. Perfectly valid question. Enlighten me.
Judging from past Strix (since AIB TI's aren't currently out) vs other cards, better thermals and noise levels, the combination of both, or at the very least just the lower noise level which seem to be very important to many people using this case. Sure it was a valid question (followed by "just get something else" sounds like you weren't "genuinely curious" about the answer to the question), but "just get something else" is not a good suggestion unless we know for sure that there is absolutely no way a 1080TI Strix cannot fit.
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I wanted to get the lp53 too, but it will take weeks to get it. I guess I'll just get the nh-l9i if it roughly the same performance.
cowsgomoo2
Limp Gawd
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More "VR-ready" because it comes with two HDMI ports out of the box. All other GTX 10xx have only 1 HDMI port.
RGB lighting.
Giant heatsink and better thermals.
Matches the Asus Z270i motherboard for MORE RGB.
Cherry Dude
Weaksauce
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Finally, I have the time to comment my own question.
Pretty much agree with Rappy and cowsgomoo2 - because I expect lower noise level, better cooling and two HDMI. But of course, reviews are needed.
The whole thing is only wishful thinking, I don't think my SF450 is enough for it. So, a new PSU minus whatever someone will give for a used 1080 = might not be as "cheap" an upgrade as I had hoped
Pretty much agree with Rappy and cowsgomoo2 - because I expect lower noise level, better cooling and two HDMI. But of course, reviews are needed.
The whole thing is only wishful thinking, I don't think my SF450 is enough for it. So, a new PSU minus whatever someone will give for a used 1080 = might not be as "cheap" an upgrade as I had hoped
Meccabolix
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I made a quick chart of all of my cooler temp tests altogether in case anyone is interested, it saves people looking around the forum for them (all tests done with 6700k @4.4Ghz with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut thermal paste):
High rez HERE
Loudness key:
1: Silent
2: Very quiet
3: Quiet
4: Moderate
5: Loud
High rez HERE
Loudness key:
1: Silent
2: Very quiet
3: Quiet
4: Moderate
5: Loud
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D
Deleted member 288494
Guest
I'm urged to get an LP53 but does anyone know if they're offering AM4 brackets should the need arise.
Cherry Dude
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That is one pretty damn fantastic post
Looking for some help here... Just put together my build (case is very cool/small/well built) but I'm getting crazy high temps no matter what I do.
I'm running a 7700K delided (w/ CLU), using Thermal Grizzly Kyronaut w/ a C7 w/ the Noktua fan swap. I've also disabled turbo and taken core voltage down to 1.10V - during Prime95 I'm seeing temps 100C+ after 5 min or so (when I quit the testing).
Those temps are just way too hot... I checked to make sure the C7 was properly seated, I have the backplate on (Strix mobo), tightened appropriately, correct amount of thermal paste (re-applied just in case), etc.
Any thoughts on something to try? (other than the obvious swap your CPU/cooler)
I'm running a 7700K delided (w/ CLU), using Thermal Grizzly Kyronaut w/ a C7 w/ the Noktua fan swap. I've also disabled turbo and taken core voltage down to 1.10V - during Prime95 I'm seeing temps 100C+ after 5 min or so (when I quit the testing).
Those temps are just way too hot... I checked to make sure the C7 was properly seated, I have the backplate on (Strix mobo), tightened appropriately, correct amount of thermal paste (re-applied just in case), etc.
Any thoughts on something to try? (other than the obvious swap your CPU/cooler)
Hotshot619
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Just to clarify meccabolix are all of these tests with the IO shield off?
Nullbnx, how confident are you that the 7700k delid was done correctly? Maybe you are not making great contact with the IHS?
Nullbnx, how confident are you that the 7700k delid was done correctly? Maybe you are not making great contact with the IHS?
Quite confident... I'm just guessing the fan/C7 combo just is not powerful enough to dissipate the heat.
Room temps are normal - 70F-ish