DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Ozymandias said:
I transplanted my 5820K X99 ITX system into the Dan A4 yesterday and a AXP100H Muscle cooler didn't fit, even with 4mm standoffs. It's a few millimeters too tall and when I bent the heatpipes to make it shorter, the blades of the underslung fan started rubbing on the retention screws. This is with Thermalright's Narrow ILM kit, which requires standoffs that raises the height of the cooler. As seen in this thread, Meccabolix didn't have the same issues with a LGA 1151 system.

I did a quick and dirty, 10 minute Intel XTU benchmark of the AXP100H with the side panel off with a Noctua NF-A9x14, a Scythe Slipstream SY1212SL12H, and Thermalright TY 100, all blowing out. The Noctua was the quietest but hottest, topping out at 80C, the Scythe was louder but livable and hit 75C, while the Thermalright was a bit quieter than the Scythe and cooled best with 71C. Maybe a draw-through orientation of the fans would have worked better, but I stopped testing after confirming the cooler was too tall.

I switched back to the Dynatron T318, paired it with the TY100 fan, and after 10 minutes of XTU it only reached 65C. So it's a clear winner temperature-wise and it fits. The TY100 fan is a gem too - I can barely tell that the computer is on at idle and it's easily masked by speakers or headphones during load.

EDIT: Added more details to make it clear this is an X99 system and as Meccabolix shows, it fits with LGA1151 motherboards.
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Ozymandias, I've been doing some benchamrking with the t318 and 5820k and I've determined that with the fan turned upsidedown in "PULL" configuration temperature lowers by 5º/9º. Have you tried?
 
krcm0209 said:
He said 7700 not 7700K.
I have a 7700 (non-K) in my case with an L9i and while running stress tests the temp goes between 77-89ish Celsius. I think the fluctuation is due to my fan curve.
Click to expand...
what app did you use for stress test?
 
okay, i decided to get the cryorig c7 heatsink and replace the fan with noctua's. but how do i attach the noctua fan on the cryorigs heatsink? ziptie?
 
Jirbin said:
okay, i decided to get the cryorig c7 heatsink and replace the fan with noctua's. but how do i attach the noctua fan on the cryorigs heatsink? ziptie?
Click to expand...

There are a few ways but this is how i did it

33390470436_d081dc1e0a_b.jpg
 
pedrofan said:
Ozymandias, I've been doing some benchamrking with the t318 and 5820k and I've determined that with the fan turned upsidedown in "PULL" configuration temperature lowers by 5º/9º. Have you tried?
Click to expand...

I haven't tried that. Just to be clear, is that with the heatsink in the case or open air? I know a lot of people are still waiting for their A4...
 
tviceman said:
I'm jealous but WTF that is messed up. I'm in the mid west and my tracking hasn't updated since German custom's notified USPS. I figured the delivery would have been chronological from east coast to west coast. It's mid March now. I'm growing unhappy about the time it's taking to get this in my hands.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I'm in LA as well and no update since it transferred to the Frankfurt airport on Feb 27th either. Doesn't seem like there's any sort of geographical logic to when/how these get processed into the US. While USPS isn't the greatest service, I order plenty of stuff from ex-US and this package definitely has the worst behavior (no updates, serious lag) of any I've seen lately. Even stuff from Asia gets a status change when entering the US, and then is tracked pretty reliably from port-of-entry to me.

I know it's been said repeatedly that Dan is a one man ... man, this is a Kickstarter so our expectations should be low, etc etc, but not sorting out drop ship logistics directly from Taiwan has significantly dampened my enthusiasm for Dan's ability to launch (not design) a product. Background to this comment: I work in product development, and in my experience ability to execute across all domains is 100% more important (and 100% harder) than coming up with the original design/idea when it comes to creating a successful product. It's definitely not something I always get right either, so hopefully we all learn from our mistakes so we can make bigger ones next time. Having said all that, much respect to Dan's initiative for taking this on as he has.
 
My A4 was delivered today! (SF) Tracking finally updated about 5am this morning saying the local post office received the parcel from DHL. Just another data point... now, guess I can't put off deciding on a cooler much longer.
 
Well i finally bought and put together my system this afternoon.

Couldn't install the Cryorig C7 using the backplate as it seems to be incompatible with the Asus Strix Z270I. Luckily they included washers.... but my temperatures seem to be pretty bad (?) sitting in the low-mid 40's on idle and under stress testing it throttles pretty much straight away (Intel 7700K at stock clocks). What have other people experienced with the 7700k? I might try reapplication of the thermal paste tomorrow but so far pretty disappointed with the noise and temps from the cooler.

Other thing I noticed was the bottom of the heatsink pushes up against the RAM module, installation is super tight, pretty much had to jam it in there.

Specs:
Intel 7700K (stock) w/ Cryorig C7
Asus Strix Z270I
Gigabyte 1080Ti FE
GSkill Trident Z RGB 16GB 3200
Samsung 960 EVO 500GB m.2
Corsair SF600


DSC00099.jpg

DSC00104.jpg
DSC00101.jpg
DSC00106.jpg
 
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jtl said:
Couldn't install the Cryorig C7 using the backplate as it seems to be incompatible with the Asus Strix Z270I. Luckily they included washers.... but my temperatures seem to be pretty bad (?) sitting in the low-mid 40's on idle and under stress testing it throttles pretty much straight away (Intel 7700K at stock clocks). What have other people experienced with the 7700k? I might try reapplication of the thermal paste tomorrow but so far pretty disappointed with the noise and temps from the cooler.

Other thing I noticed was the bottom of the heatsink pushes up against the RAM module, installation is super tight, pretty much had to jam it in there.
Click to expand...

I couldn't get the backplate to sit on the the Asus either, so far only one person I know of has done so (without modifying the backplate). Try undervolting your CPU, I've been able to drop my voltage down to 1.2 without adjusting clocks or multipliers at all and it still runs stable. I'm sitting at low 30's in idle and high 70's in prime 95 (ambient temperature is mid 20's)

For noise improvements on the C7, ditch the fan and replace it with an NF-A9*14 PWM, I'm running that at the moment and I saw no temp differences but it's much quieter.
 
Yes that person who uses the C7 backplate with his Z270i Strix is me. I can't quite see why so many people are having issues using it. It works fine. You have apply a bit of muscle to the backplate legs to get them to go down enough so you can get the washers around the thread, but thats it. Other than that it works great

I personally believe not using the backplate may result in uneven pressure of the heatsink to the CPU. This may cause the temperature issues some of you are having
 
Just a general question/observation which may have been mentioned.

I am going to a LAN even and was looking to lock My PC case to the table for security, normally this is done with a padlock loop on the case or kensington lock socket. I cant seem to find either.

How are you meant to physically lock/attach this case to other object for security reasons?
 
jtl said:
Well i finally bought and put together my system this afternoon.

Couldn't install the Cryorig C7 using the backplate as it seems to be incompatible with the Asus Strix Z270I. Luckily they included washers.... but my temperatures seem to be pretty bad (?) sitting in the low-mid 40's on idle and under stress testing it throttles pretty much straight away (Intel 7700K at stock clocks). What have other people experienced with the 7700k? I might try reapplication of the thermal paste tomorrow but so far pretty disappointed with the noise and temps from the cooler.

Other thing I noticed was the bottom of the heatsink pushes up against the RAM module, installation is super tight, pretty much had to jam it in there.

Specs:
Intel 7700K (stock) w/ Cryorig C7
Asus Strix Z270I
Gigabyte 1080Ti FE
GSkill Trident Z RGB 16GB 3200
Samsung 960 EVO 500GB m.2
Corsair SF600
Click to expand...


With the default BIOS settings on the Asus Z270i, the CPU is automatically overclocked to the turbo speed of 4.5Ghz at all times.

The first thing I recommend is to turn off the turbo mode in BIOS, and run the CPU at stock 4.2Ghz. I personally did not throttle when on stock 4.2Ghz, but I was reaching the mid 90's on Aida64 stability test, and mid low 40's in idle. Still a bit to high for my taste.

My cooler is the Noctua L9i with the NF-A914 PWM fan btw. Waiting on delivery of a LP53 to test with.

I further more recommend to undervolt the CPU as suggested by others as well, this will lower your temps by 5C to 15C, depending on what voltage you can come down to.

I personally atm run my 7700k at stock 4.2Ghz, turbo mode off and have the voltage in the BIOS set to offset of -0.110 V. This give me a voltage peak of 1.072 (in CPU-Z) under load and peak temps of 83C in a 22C room. In idle I'm in the low 30's. And when playing Battlefield 1 in 4K Ultra, I'm in the high 70s.

I successfully managed to drop my temps under stress test with ≈ 10C.
 
jtl said:
Well i finally bought and put together my system this afternoon.

Couldn't install the Cryorig C7 using the backplate as it seems to be incompatible with the Asus Strix Z270I. Luckily they included washers.... but my temperatures seem to be pretty bad (?) sitting in the low-mid 40's on idle and under stress testing it throttles pretty much straight away (Intel 7700K at stock clocks). What have other people experienced with the 7700k? I might try reapplication of the thermal paste tomorrow but so far pretty disappointed with the noise and temps from the cooler.
Click to expand...

Nice build
I recently put together a 7700k, asus strix z270i, 16gb 4266 trident ram. I was getting 86-91c with usual windows installs and multitasking on the Nhl9i with the supplied noctua paste. Then repasted with thermal grizzly kryonaut ( Got 5c drop on my laptop ) and it maxed out at 88c. Your c7 should perform better what thermal paste are you using? make sure its a grain of rice size.

Also after about 2 hours of tinkering on XTU, i found the CPU can undervolt -50 and IGPU -125. I just left the bios CPU voltage undervolted to 1.135 volts set and forget. Temps are better for it.

One thing i noticed was my HD 630 which on 3d mark scores 30% slower compared to a Iris 540, mine performs ultra smooth and buttery on dota 2 and cs go compared to my laptops 540. Its the high speed ram that does the trick.
 
Ozymandias said:
I haven't tried that. Just to be clear, is that with the heatsink in the case or open air? I know a lot of people are still waiting for their A4...
Click to expand...
In both scenarios. I've tried with three different fans but not with ty100 because I haven´t received it yet. Two of them were 25mm fans and one was 20mm so I have tried the closed configuration only with the third. It gets so close to the case that it forces the air to go directly out through the holes, I don´t know if the ty100 would be the same as it is thinner and the air may get stuck inside the case. All in all, the pull configuraton was always better even in closed config with the fans that I've tried.

I'm also waiting for thermal grizzly conductonaut liquid metal paste to try and post my results.
 
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jtl said:
Well i finally bought and put together my system this afternoon.

Couldn't install the Cryorig C7 using the backplate as it seems to be incompatible with the Asus Strix Z270I. Luckily they included washers.... but my temperatures seem to be pretty bad (?) sitting in the low-mid 40's on idle and under stress testing it throttles pretty much straight away (Intel 7700K at stock clocks). What have other people experienced with the 7700k? I might try reapplication of the thermal paste tomorrow but so far pretty disappointed with the noise and temps from the cooler.

Other thing I noticed was the bottom of the heatsink pushes up against the RAM module, installation is super tight, pretty much had to jam it in there.

Specs:
Intel 7700K (stock) w/ Cryorig C7
Asus Strix Z270I
Gigabyte 1080Ti FE
GSkill Trident Z RGB 16GB 3200
Samsung 960 EVO 500GB m.2
Corsair SF600


View attachment 19333
View attachment 19335 View attachment 19336 View attachment 19334
Click to expand...

How are the Ti temps? Noise?
 
Has anyone weighed the LP53 heatsink without fans, and has anyone compared the performance of the LP53 and the Cryorig C7 with the same components?
 
pedrofan said:
In both scenarios. I've tried with three different fans but not with ty100 because I haven´t received it yet. Two of them were 25mm fans and one was 20mm so I have tried the closed configuration only with the third. It gets so close to the case that it forces the air to go directly out through the holes, I don´t know if the ty100 would be the same as it is thinner and the air may get stuck inside the case. All in all, the pull configuraton was always better even in closed config with the fans that I've tried.

I'm also waiting for thermal grizzly conductonaut liquid metal paste to try and post my results.
Click to expand...
When you are done with your test, can you give tell us which fan works best with T318?
I'm currently using T318+NF-a9x14 on x99+Xeon E5 V4. The fan is really quiet, but the temperature is quite high on full load. I also don't mind fan getting noise because my Asus gtx1080 turbo sounds crazy on full load..

Good to see x99 builds on A4-SFX!
 
Has anyone actually tested both Dynatron R31 and Dynatron T318?

I'm currently using T318, but I don't think no one actually uses R31 on A4-SFX.
 
cowsgomoo2 said:
Has anyone weighed the LP53 heatsink without fans, and has anyone compared the performance of the LP53 and the Cryorig C7 with the same components?
Click to expand...

You can look for Meccabolix's tests, he tried several coolers and show them on Youtube.

Meccabolix said:
OK so this post is going to be a long but very interesting one.

All tests are done on my 6700K @ 4.4Ghz with the LP53 and Noctua NF a-9x14 PWM fan

i unplugged the titan x pascal because sometimes it makes a little rumble when idle, and the NF a9x14 PWM is so quiet you can slightly hear the graphics card in the background, we don't want to hear that, we just want to hear the CPU fan.

i applied fresh thermal paste when i changed orientation of the cooler, the thermal paste i use is Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

The first test i did was with the LP53 heatpipes in a horizontal orientation. i used the 4mm standoffs and the a9x14 fan:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17799

Prime 95 temps:

View attachment 17800

Next test was the LP53 heatpipes in a horizontal orientation. i used the 7mm standoffs (the original ones) and the a9x14 fan:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17802

Prime 95 temps:

View attachment 17803

Next test was the LP53 heatpipes in a vertical orientation. i used the 4mm standoffs and the a9x14 fan:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17804

Prime 95 temps:

View attachment 17805

Next test was the LP53 heatpipes in a vertical orientation. i used the 7mm (the original ones) standoffs and the a9x14 fan:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17806

Prime 95 Temps:

View attachment 17807

All fan speeds og the above tests were:

Idle speed: 800 RPM

Full speed: 2200 RPM

As you can see, those temperatures are very very low, but i don't know how, surely they would be higher with a smaller fan than the TY-100?????

Anyway, as you can tell, all noise tests at idle are silent, but i think the 4mm standoff tests are slightly quieter with the side panel on with max fan speed, theres hardly any difference in it, but the 4mm tests have a slightly lower pitch sound.

For fun i did one last test as i was feeling rather confident with those low temps.

I tested the LP53 heatpipes in a vertical orientation. i used the 4mm standoffs and the a9x14 fan AND used the low noise adaptor that came with the fan:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17809

Prime 95 temps:

View attachment 17810

Idle speed: 618 RPM

Full speed: 1611 RPM

Not bad! as you can tell from the video it's silent even at full fan speed! this setup is the one to go for if you want a completely silent Dan pc.

if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
Click to expand...
 
sungho said:
When you are done with your test, can you give tell us which fan works best with T318?
I'm currently using T318+NF-a9x14 on x99+Xeon E5 V4. The fan is really quiet, but the temperature is quite high on full load. I also don't mind fan getting noise because my Asus gtx1080 turbo sounds crazy on full load..

Good to see x99 builds on A4-SFX!
Click to expand...

Sure, I'm doing a table with all the data, but I'm waiting for ty100 and liquid metal paste to post all the results, but I can post what I have if you want. What I can tell you is that you should try turning the fan upside down in pull config. In my tests it was always better by 5/9ºC and its free. This may apply to all low profile heat sinks.

Push configuration tends to heat all the motherboard and it is mostly used by manufaturers because pull configuration can heat and damage evferything that's above the motherboard, so they don't take any risk, but in a4-sfx what you have is the outside, so it is save.

Regarding to the fan model I don't have the NF-a9x14 to bench it, but looking at the specks it has an air flow of 29,7 CFM at 2200 rpm while the ty 100 has 44,5 CFM at 2500 RPM, so the Ty-100 looks to be a lot better.
 
OmenemO said:
I couldn't get the backplate to sit on the the Asus either, so far only one person I know of has done so (without modifying the backplate). Try undervolting your CPU, I've been able to drop my voltage down to 1.2 without adjusting clocks or multipliers at all and it still runs stable. I'm sitting at low 30's in idle and high 70's in prime 95 (ambient temperature is mid 20's)

For noise improvements on the C7, ditch the fan and replace it with an NF-A9*14 PWM, I'm running that at the moment and I saw no temp differences but it's much quieter.
Click to expand...
Somebody reported severe temperature improvements with the C7 when adding the backplate, it was a reddit post that was copied here. I'm sorry for not tracing it down for you.

[unlazy mode] [lazy mode]
 
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Survey: Second Production Run



Currently I plan the second production run for the A4-SFX v2 that includes some improvements .

The original plan was to make this happen with my distributors/resellers. The main problem is that my resellers have to do an advanced payment.
From ordering to delivery it will takes 6 month. If you take a look on my last Kickstarter campaign we are talking about a capital with a six-digit amount.
So this is a lot of money for my resellers and will end a less high order quantity of them (~1000) . As I know there are 25.000 customers on the subscription list. So I also consider a second Kickstarter campaign.

It would be also possible to combine it. Unlimited quantities for the Kickstarter customers and a small quantity of 200-300 cases for the resellers for those are afraid of Kickstarter. And a 100% guarantee that Kickstarter customers shipment will start before reseller shipment.

Please help me to find the way you prefere:


SURVEY: A4-SFX - Second Production Run


Thank you

Daniel Hansen
 
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dondan said:
And a 100% guarantee that Kickstarter customers shipment will start before reseller shipment.
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I'm sure managing the logistics of all this is miserable and I think you handled it well overall, but I think this would be where you could theoretically run into problems again. If the first case starts shipping to Germany one day and US four weeks later (just making up estimates here of course), but you ship to resellers in the middle, I could easily foresee people getting frustrated again this time around.

Just attempting to anticipate future pain points, though I personally didn't mind it myself.
 
I guess you could have a distributor tier of the kickstarter get x many cases for the price of blah and then everyone sort of wins?
 
Since I already have my A4 and don't need another I wont mess with the survey with my option but I would have to agree with Joe here. Promising something in the future is just asking for more head ache and complications. I would think your best best is to just do another Kickstarter. It's clear that you have the means and capability to fulfill your end of the agreement and deliver a product(which is what most people are afraid for when buying something via kickstarter) . I would think most people on the list would be happy with just using kickstarter now that the A4 has been such a success as it is here, there is no glaring problems, QC issues, and the reviews are all mainly positive. Best of luck whatever you decide, but remember to try and keep the logistical nightmare easier on yourself as it will lead to more time and better products. (I'm hoping your cooler takes off like the A4 has)
 
sungho said:
When you are done with your test, can you give tell us which fan works best with T318?
I'm currently using T318+NF-a9x14 on x99+Xeon E5 V4. The fan is really quiet, but the temperature is quite high on full load. I also don't mind fan getting noise because my Asus gtx1080 turbo sounds crazy on full load..

Good to see x99 builds on A4-SFX!
Click to expand...

If you can get your hands on it, I highly recommend the Nexus Low-7000 R2 coupled with the Thermalright Narrow ILM bracket to use a Xeon E5 in the A4. I used the T318+TY-100 fan for about a year with a Xeon E5 V3 and found the temperatures too high to be comfortable. I think the TY-100 will improve things over the A9x14, but not substantially (100mm vs 92mm fan). Still need to do stress testing, but I'm expecting about 15 degrees less on load than with the T318.
 
Hey Dan for your improvements on the dancase v2, is it not possible to make minor adjustments to the top of the case to allow installation of slim fans? there is a bracket above the PSU that if removed would allow a fan to stick there, that, and perhaps ventilation holes below the case where the SSD's mount to give ppl who have sfx PSU's an option to mount a fan below there?
 
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The current HDD bracket design allows for a 15mm drive to be placed on the bottom but not screwed in on the sides. Can extra holes be added to allow 15mm drive to be screwed in? Even mounting the drive upside down should be fine (extra holes at the top of the sides of the bracket instead of bottom).
 
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I thought it could work with the bottom fan so I tried to include it, but it will not work. This distance between clips is 92.8mm so very tight but it will work. The problem are the two holding screws of the side panel. So only a 80mm fan will work but I think there is no high quality 80mm fan on the market so we should drop that idea.

unbenannterjz2.jpg
 
dondan said:
Maybe the most genius build with the A4-SFX. MaximumBurrito is the creator of this build. To activate crossfire he used a Bifurcation riser.

img_4895-jpg.19311


If you use a single slot watercooling heatsink on the 1080 ti with singl slot bracket and second 3M Riser - SLI will be possible too.

unbenanntt1km9.jpg
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Maximum burrito really maximized his dan case!
 
dondan said:
I thought it could work with the bottom fan so I tried to include it, but it will not work. This distance between clips is 92.8mm so very tight but it will work. The problem are the two holding screws of the side panel. So only a 80mm fan will work but I think there is no high quality 80mm fan on the market so we should drop that idea.

unbenannterjz2.jpg
Click to expand...
Hey Dan to avoid that weld/sauter point, couldnt a custom bracket be made that allows a fan to mount and slide it in the SSD mounting holes?
 
theoretical yes but it will increase the price and only 5% of the users will use it. I will think on it this night maybe there is a more easie way.
 
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