DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

cowsgomoo2 said:
P56p4GF.jpg


I think two fans will break too much compatibility. Maybe the tradeoff can be letting the passively cooled part have thicker fins.
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Agree, with the added passive cooling. This looks like a good design to start from.
 
cowsgomoo2 said:
May I propose the single fan rectangular version of the previous suggestions?
I think the ram clearance will be a turn off for many users. The Nexus/Cooljag can't be used as precedents because their fans were supposed to be put on top, not below.
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It's important to remember that motherboards laid out like this do exist:
qG1AhzI.png

as well as stuff like the X99E-ITX
 
tbooth said:
So, I've done a little testing with the 2 coolers I have; the CoolJag Falcon II (w/ Noctua A9x14) and the Cryorig C7.

The tests were done in my Abee Acubic T20R with all the case fans unplugged and the side panel off.

System
Asus Strix Z270i
i7 6700K
16GB Gskill DDR2400
EVGA 1080 SC

Everything was done at stock settings except that I set the CPU fan to max. I used the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility stress test for 5 minutes.

Cryorig C7
45pIlGd.png


CoolJag Falcon II with Noctua A9x14
f8IewGX.png


I was pretty disappointed with the CoolJag, it did about the same as the C7 albeit with lower noise.

I also attempted 10 minutes of Prime95 blend and the CoolJag hit 100C on three of the cores before I hit the 5 minute mark so I stopped the test. The C7 got to 94C on one core, but made it the full 10 minutes. Maybe with a larger fan the CoolJag would have done slightly better. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't buy the CoolJag.

Oh and if anyone is wondering I got slightly better temps with the fans pulling air through the CoolJag than pushing.
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I wonder if you assembled the m.2 Heat Sink.
 
Awesome looking case. Haven't followed this thread until now. Any possibility the front USB port can be replaced with a type-C port that connects to the new USB 3.1 header found on Z270 motherboards?
 
dondan said:
The last two evenings i worked on the new heatsink.

The current heatsink with have the project name HSLP-48. It based on the AXP-100, but it is bigger and has nearly the same size as the Nexus. Currently I plan to work together with Thermalrigt so I can bundle it with the TY-100 FAN. The fan will be mounted with anti vibration rubbers so you can mount the fan in that position you need it. The heatsink will support normal RAM height. Here are some renderings. I will open a new thread in the next days.

untitled.22u0ujm.jpg

untitled.23g6uw2.jpg

untitled.24q7ump.jpg


Kickstarter-Update: 550 cases will be shiped tomorrow and the next 200 on Friday. My toner is empty so I have to wait for a new one to make the last 70 cases ready.
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I can see quite a few problems with this cooler design already if it's supposed to go over the chipset area:

1) you're blocking the access to sata or USB ports if those are next to the chipset/making it hard to fit
2) By going out of dedicated area for cooler you might obstruct add-in card like WLAN mPCIE/M.2 and audio boards.
3) With new motherboards having M.2 on the top you'll still have to tear down whole system if the cooler mounting is on the back of the board if you want to upgrade your drive.
 
SaperPL said:
I can see quite a few problems with this cooler design already if it's supposed to go over the chipset area:

1) you're blocking the access to sata or USB ports if those are next to the chipset/making it hard to fit
2) By going out of dedicated area for cooler you might obstruct add-in card like WLAN mPCIE/M.2 and audio boards.
3) With new motherboards having M.2 on the top you'll still have to tear down whole system if the cooler mounting is on the back of the board if you want to upgrade your drive.
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1. making it hard to fit doesnt mean it wont fit. just saying. and this is meant for a small case, which probably only needs 1-2 sata slots, given the use of m.2 slot/s.
2. most of the latest boards has it wlan card placed on the left side where the I/o ports are located. with all the latest b250, h270, z720 chipsets, i dont think its a problem.
3.i dont mind dissassembling the cooler when ever i want toremove or replace my m.2 ssd, treat it as an oppurtunity to clean the cooler and replace the thermal paste.

:p
 
tbooth said:
So, I've done a little testing with the 2 coolers I have; the CoolJag Falcon II (w/ Noctua A9x14) and the Cryorig C7.

The tests were done in my Abee Acubic T20R with all the case fans unplugged and the side panel off.

System
Asus Strix Z270i
i7 6700K
16GB Gskill DDR2400
EVGA 1080 SC

Everything was done at stock settings except that I set the CPU fan to max. I used the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility stress test for 5 minutes.

Cryorig C7
45pIlGd.png


CoolJag Falcon II with Noctua A9x14
f8IewGX.png


I was pretty disappointed with the CoolJag, it did about the same as the C7 albeit with lower noise.

I also attempted 10 minutes of Prime95 blend and the CoolJag hit 100C on three of the cores before I hit the 5 minute mark so I stopped the test. The C7 got to 94C on one core, but made it the full 10 minutes. Maybe with a larger fan the CoolJag would have done slightly better. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't buy the CoolJag.

Oh and if anyone is wondering I got slightly better temps with the fans pulling air through the CoolJag than pushing.
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It seems like you ran the test with the CoolJag on higher clock than the C7.
 
Copper is 3 USD for half a kilo vs aluminium wich is 1 USD for half a kilo. It is NOT expensive. Please.

Curiositie said:
It's important to remember that motherboards laid out like this do exist:

as well as stuff like the X99E-ITX
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I'm not sure it's possible to make a proper cooler thats compatible with all itx boards, or even most of them, with the height limit of this case.

Another drawing of what a dual 92mmfan heatsink could look like.

SWXgqKx.png
 
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Rysen said:
Are you saying that people who own the A4 and want a cooler that will fit in their A4 and their sentry at the same time are not part of the A4 community? Or perhaps they shouldn't voice their concerns on what kind of cooler they are looking for their A4 in this thread? Some people don't buy an item to use it for one purpose and then throw it away. The whole point of pushing a new cpu cooler is that like the A4 will fit the needs of the sff community while being among the most compact, not to be the special edition for exclusive setups.
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But the whole point of the demand for a new CPU cooler is because people want the best temps for this specific case that has its own unique cooling problems. You are already buying unique case that is unlike any other used for one purpose, the A4 (same can be said about the Sentry). Why would you need to throw the CPU cooler away? It will be used for the A4. If you want the best cooling, why not have a unique custom cooler for the A4 and have a separate unique cooler for the Sentry?

You begin to lose out on performance when you focus on compatibility. Might as well just use all the other coolers already out on the market if compatibility is such a concern. Which I will likely end up doing seeing as this proposed cooler isn't even going to be compatible with the Asus STRIX z270i. Which is a shame since it looks like it will be a popular pick for mITX mobos.
 
For Copper it could be the tooling that drives up cost, and you also have to consider the weight.

If it does give 2-3C more performance though then as an enthusiast product if it costs a bit more then that's fine.

There will be a lot of testing done I'm sure - but the end result should be something special I hope.
 
iippo said:
I suppose the 600w is starting to be bit overshooting these days, especially as i have no plans to overclock.

but whats the deal with SFX-L's? Like SX500-LG compared to the SF450? ...or did that SFX-L get in the way of 3rd SSD? - so only two SSD's with SFX-L? Then again if i get 2x 1tb SSD's two would be more than enough anyways, so its really more of question whether the SFX-L is really more quiet than the 450w silverstone or not.
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Surprisingly, SX500-LG is actually louder than SF450.
1) Inferior fan quality (even though it's bigger)
2) Most users experience a coil whine

However, I bought SX500-LG before SF450 came out and I'm happy with it (GPU is a bit louder when gaming anyway). In addition, SX500-LG comes with shorter flexible cables that are easier to manage in a small case in my opinion (judging from other builds in this trend, SX500-LG seems to have more compact cables).
 
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Synomenon said:
Awesome looking case. Haven't followed this thread until now. Any possibility the front USB port can be replaced with a type-C port that connects to the new USB 3.1 header found on Z270 motherboards?
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Yes, he is working on it. It even is on his website.
 
pellen said:
Wouldn't an oblong heatsink with dual fans be wasted when the second fan will be out of the perforated area in the side panel?
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Some of the air would recirculate yes. But most of the air would still leave the case.
Take a look at modern GPUs they work the same way. Some air leaves and some air stays in the case.
 
SaperPL said:
3) With new motherboards having M.2 on the top you'll still have to tear down whole system if the cooler mounting is on the back of the board if you want to upgrade your drive.
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Solely focusing on this, mate:

1) This cooler will have the mounting hardware on the top - that's why there are gaps in the fins, as stated above.

2) This is a horrible, horrible thing to have, especially for the point you make. Having a back mounted cooler makes it infinitely easier to access. Yes, you have to undo four easy-to-access screws on the motherboard plus various cables in order to remove the board, unscrew the cooler from the back, and then mess with the M.2 slot.

However, compare that to fighting to get a screwdriver down through the small gap in the fins, between the fan blades, properly seated on the retention screws... Then you get to remove it, mess with the M.2 slot in a cramped case, and try to put the cooler back on.

Putting it back on involves seating the retention bracket just right on top of the cpu block, lowering the cooler onto the motherboard, trying really hard to get the screws to seat correctly, and then sticking the screwdriver back down the fin gap, between the fan blades, trying to get it to seat in the screw without bumping the retention plate off balance.

I have a cooler that attaches this way, and even after removing the motherboard from the case, it can take upwards of 20 minutes of frustration before everything aligns juuuuussstt right.

Not being hyperbolic at all, I would pay an extra $50 just to have the cooler screw in from the bottom of the motherboard.
 
I wonder if Asrock Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-ITX/ac would work with either that new Thermalright-Dan cooler project or the Nexus LOW-7000 R2 since those seems to be the better options to handle a 7700K. I'll wait either way to see how AMD Ryzen 7 1700 performs. But still, none of the new Ryzen stock coolers seems to fit in this case, so I hope Dan-Thermalright cooler project will happen soon enough and it has support for AM4 mobos.
 
Here is a sound and temp test of the C7 heatsink with the AR05 fan on a 6700k @4.4 Ghz:



Idle temps:

c7 with ar05 fan.JPG

Prime 95 temps:

c7 with ar05 fan stress.JPG

Idle fan speed: 1150 RPM

Full fan speed: 2500 RPM

Not quite as loud as the C7 fan, but also not quite as good at cooling.
 
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readeh said:
It seems like you ran the test with the CoolJag on higher clock than the C7.
Click to expand...

Ignore the clock speeds in the screen shots. After the benchmark runs the clock speed bounces around and it just happened to be in different spots when I took the screen shots. Both tests were @ 4.2Ghz during load.

The max temps are the relevant info.
 
Thermal and noise test with the Thermalright TY-100 fan on the C7 on a 6700k @4.4Ghz:



Idle temps:

c7 with ty100 fan.JPG

Prime 95 temps:

c7 with ty100 fan stress.JPG

Idle speed: 810 RPM

Full speed: 2500 RPM

Quieter and lower pitched than both the C7 fan and the AR05's fan, also lower temps! This is great!



Also i wanted to bring up a problem i had with the case that i have managed to fix.

As you have probably guessed i have had to take the motherboard out to install the coolers a good few times now. Well the standoffs for the motherboard have ground away the 2 of the 4 holes on the motherboard tray behind the motherboard (i have probably be screwing the motherboard screws in too tight)

So now when i try and take the motherboard out i unscrew the two screws that don't have this problem, then i have to wiggle the motherboard until the other two standoffs come out attached the motherboard.

Easy fix though, i took the 4 hex nuts that came with the AR05 cooler and screwed them onto the backs of the standoffs on the gfx card side of the motherboard tray, now i don't have a problem at all, could you use hex nuts to secure the standoffs in V2 of the dan case Dondan? i'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem.
 
tbooth said:
So, I've done a little testing with the 2 coolers I have; the CoolJag Falcon II (w/ Noctua A9x14) and the Cryorig C7.

The tests were done in my Abee Acubic T20R with all the case fans unplugged and the side panel off.

System
Asus Strix Z270i
i7 6700K
16GB Gskill DDR2400
EVGA 1080 SC

Everything was done at stock settings except that I set the CPU fan to max. I used the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility stress test for 5 minutes.

Cryorig C7
45pIlGd.png


CoolJag Falcon II with Noctua A9x14
f8IewGX.png


I was pretty disappointed with the CoolJag, it did about the same as the C7 albeit with lower noise.

I also attempted 10 minutes of Prime95 blend and the CoolJag hit 100C on three of the cores before I hit the 5 minute mark so I stopped the test. The C7 got to 94C on one core, but made it the full 10 minutes. Maybe with a larger fan the CoolJag would have done slightly better. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't buy the CoolJag.

Oh and if anyone is wondering I got slightly better temps with the fans pulling air through the CoolJag than pushing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the doing those tests. I think the advantage of the Cooljag over the C7 is only really apparent with the side panel on and inside of the Dan A4. The primary benefit of the Cooljag, from the other posts I have seen, is its not dealing with the air turbulence issue that the C7 fan is. So don't ditch the Cooljag yet, until you can see how it does inside the A4. From everything everyone else has been saying it seems to be the quieter performer. Also you did Prime95 26.6 right?
 
mcheddadi said:
We're can we buy the thermalright 100mm fan alone?
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Scythe sells a slimmer 12mm 100mm fan, you can find it on Amazon or Newegg. It's only voltage controlled though. I have one but haven't had a chance to test how noisy it is (doesn't fit on top of the LP53 on my motherboard), but Scythe is pretty well regarded for quiet stuff.
 
illram said:
Thanks for the doing those tests. I think the advantage of the Cooljag over the C7 is only really apparent with the side panel on and inside of the Dan A4. The primary benefit of the Cooljag, from the other posts I have seen, is its not dealing with the air turbulence issue that the C7 fan is. So don't ditch the Cooljag yet, until you can see how it does inside the A4. From everything everyone else has been saying it seems to be the quieter performer. Also you did Prime95 26.6 right?
Click to expand...

Ahh ok. Yeah, I'll retest once I get my A4, I'll probably try reversing the fans again as well. The CoolJag is definitely quieter.

Yeah I used Prime95 26.6.
 
dominathan said:
Dan's seems similar to the PH-TC12LS. Just with mountings on the bottom

IMG

Speaking of... Why did this heatsink do so badly in Dan's tests?
Click to expand...

cowsgomoo2 said:
I don't remember this heatsink being tested. There may not be space to fit a fan below.

Edit: seems that it was tested and performed worse than all the other coolers?!

IMG

With the default fan it beat out the NH-L9i by a huge margin.
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Review @ FrostyTech shows 32-43 dB and beating the Noctua L9i by about 3c. Heatsink is 48.25mm high without fan per mfg, fins are 19mm tall with 29mm clearance from socket per Frosty and no fins or plate to remove like the CoolJag.

Maaaybe could undermount a slim fan with zipties?
 
Thermals and noise test with the Thermalright AXP-100H MUSCLE with its TY-100 fan on a 6700k @ 4.4Ghz:



Idle temps:

Thermalright with ty100 idle.JPG

Prime 95 temps:

axp-100h muscle.JPG

Idle speed: 810 RPM

Full speed: 2500 RPM

Temps are about as good at the C7 with the C7 fan, but not quite as good as the C7 with the TY-100 fan.

But in low usage its SILENT! and at max fan speed its pretty quiet, its got the lowest pitch of any of the other combinations i've tested (probably due to the fan being so far behind the side cover and underneath the heatsink), so it's much easier on the ears.

The axp-100H is ever so slightly too tall (as others have pointed out) with the normal standoffs, i have ordered a number of different length standoffs to see what the ideal standoff length I need is (as people have also suggested) . The side panel very nearly fits on with all 4 clips as it is.

I am sticking with this combo for now as it's quieter than the rest, i ordered a nexus last week but it may take a while to arrive, i will test it with the TY-100 and the other fans if people want me to, I am also waiting on the LP53 + NF a9x14 which should come soon.
 
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XPAction said:
what temp can you get if you let the fan blow the other way?
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98°C unfortunately, and its pretty loud too, i cant understand why though (it's not rubbing against anything)

just to clarify, the test with 93°C is the fan pulling air in (the same position as you would have it on top of the heatsink)

the 98°C temp is pushing air out from the motherboard, there seems to be so little space that it struggles to find any air to push (also half of the fan is taken up by the little block that's directly touching the CPU so its not getting any air from that))
 
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Meccabolix said:
98°C unfortumatly, and its pretty loud too, i cant understand why though (it's not rubbing against anything)

just to clarify, the test with 93°C is the fan pulling air in (the same position as you would have it on top of the heatsink)

the 98°C temp is pushing air out from the motherboard, there seems to be so little space that it struggles to find any air to push (also half of the fan is taken up by the little block that's directly touching the CPU so its not getting any air from that))
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
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