DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

[Philfreeze]

I got the CoolJag installed on my Asus Strix Z270i. Barely fits, but it does fit. Between the VRM heatsink, IO heatsink and Wi-Fi shroud I can just barely slide a sheet of paper through.

Spoiler: pictures

nice!
I would like too see some quick thermals too. I would also be really interested if it makes a difference if you run the fan in push or in pull configuration.
I personally would think in this case push should be superior but that is just an assumption.

 

[richiegore]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

 

[StrawKite]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

Im looking forward to seeing the resultat of this haha! God i hope it works

 

[tbooth]

What kind of g.skill ram model was that before heat sinks were removed? It looks like tridentz may JUST fit. I'm prepared to remove the heat sinks though.

These never had heatsinks, here is the link:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231964

What did you use to remove the aluminum pin?

I just bent them back and forth a few times and they broke off.

nice!
I would like too see some quick thermals too. I would also be really interested if it makes a difference if you run the fan in push or in pull configuration.
I personally would think in this case push should be superior but that is just an assumption.

I hope to be able to do some testing tonight. I'm currently pulling air through the heatsink and blowing onto the socket.

 

[Philfreeze]

Some words on the necessity of VRM heatsinks (this is Asubject where I know exactly what I am talking about since designing circuits is my job):

Spoiler: read if you want the explanation

A typical high end Intel CPU has a rated TDP of 91W, this means under high non-synthetic loads it dissipates 91W of energy in the form of heat.
Add some power for OC and you have somewhere around 100W or so.
The processor converts electrical energy manily into heat but some energy goes into other stuff too but it really isn't a lot. So we can say the CPU needs about 110W of power from the VRM.

Now we know our output power of the VRM which is 110W.
The power is distributed evenly across the power phases. Lets take the Asus STRIX Z270I board for example, it has 8+2 power phases, 8 for Vcore and 2 for the iGPU.
This means each phase has to deliver around 14W of power (110W/8).

I assume everybody of you guys knows that much. Now lets get into buck converters.
A typical buck converter has an efficiency higher than 90% at high load currents. This means we dissipates around 1.6W in the buck converter.
The power loss in the converter is split between the high side MOSFET (30%), the low side MOSFET (50%), the inductor (10%) and the PCB traces (10%).
These percentage numbers are typical figures but they pretty accurate in most cases.

As you can see the biggest part of the power is lost in the low side MOSFET, it dissipates 0.8W.
Now we need a datasheet of a typically used MOSFET like the NTMFS4C06N used in the Asus Z170I board.
On the second page you will find a section called thermal resistance maximum ratings. In this small table there are two values we want, the second and the third one.
The second one gives us the temperature increase without heatsink (junction to ambient) per watt if the chip has a big 1sq -inch copper pad used for cooling (about 650 mm^2 or 25mm x 25mm).
The third value gives us the same information but with the minimum recommended pad size. The actual value for our board will be somewhere in between these two values, so lets take the worst case value which is 162.3 °C/W.

One simple calculation later we know that the junction temperature will be 130°C over the ambient temperatrue (162.3 °C/W *0.8W).
The maximum junction temperature of this MOSFET is 150°C (some have these high power MOSFETS have a lower maximum of 125°C).

So as we can see, assuming Asus didn't do anything to cool this poor MOSFET it won't work without heatsink, right?
Well, not really. See, thermal resistance is one of this values that isn't exact all. It is used to simplify the job of the people designing electronics (like me). The given thermal resistance is usually determined in a test with natural convection (still air) because most of the time this is the scenario it is used under.
In a computer with an air cooler you will have forced convection and with that a significantly lower thermal resistance.
This combined with the fact that Ausu DID make the cooling pads under the MOSFETs significantly bigger than the minimum recommended pad means that the MOSFETS will work just fine without any heatsink.

This is why you really don't need these big blocks of aluminium on the VRM. Without any heatsink at all the MOSFETs will probably have a junction temperature somewhere around 70-100°C (maximum) which is just fine.
If you want you can always add a small heatsink (like Asrock has) on the MOSFETS and the temperature will be even lower.

TL;DR:
The heatsinks on a VRM with more than 6 phases are in most situations just eye candy. You can remove them if you want to or replace them with a much smaller one.

 

[makenick]

I like the vented I/O panel. Waiting on the temp results.

Thank you

I will do a benchmark later, also need it to compare stock vs. delid 6700K

 

[illram]

Some words on the necessity of VRM heatsinks (this is Asubject where I know exactly what I am talking about since designing circuits is my job):

Spoiler: read if you want the explanation

A typical high end Intel CPU has a rated TDP of 91W, this means under high non-synthetic loads it dissipates 91W of energy in the form of heat.
Add some power for OC and you have somewhere around 100W or so.
The processor converts electrical energy manily into heat but some energy goes into other stuff too but it really isn't a lot. So we can say the CPU needs about 110W of power from the VRM.

Now we know our output power of the VRM which is 110W.
The power is distributed evenly across the power phases. Lets take the Asus STRIX Z270I board for example, it has 8+2 power phases, 8 for Vcore and 2 for the iGPU.
This means each phase has to deliver around 14W of power (110W/8).

I assume everybody of you guys knows that much. Now lets get into buck converters.
A typical buck converter has an efficiency higher than 90% at high load currents. This means we dissipates around 1.6W in the buck converter.
The power loss in the converter is split between the high side MOSFET (30%), the low side MOSFET (50%), the inductor (10%) and the PCB traces (10%).
These percentage numbers are typical figures but they pretty accurate in most cases.

As you can see the biggest part of the power is lost in the low side MOSFET, it dissipates 0.8W.
Now we need a datasheet of a typically used MOSFET like the NTMFS4C06N used in the Asus Z170I board.
On the second page you will find a section called thermal resistance maximum ratings. In this small table there are two values we want, the second and the third one.
The second one gives us the temperature increase without heatsink (junction to ambient) per watt if the chip has a big 1sq -inch copper pad used for cooling (about 650 mm^2 or 25mm x 25mm).
The third value gives us the same information but with the minimum recommended pad size. The actual value for our board will be somewhere in between these two values, so lets take the worst case value which is 162.3 °C/W.

One simple calculation later we know that the junction temperature will be 130°C over the ambient temperatrue (162.3 °C/W *0.8W).
The maximum junction temperature of this MOSFET is 150°C (some have these high power MOSFETS have a lower maximum of 125°C).

So as we can see, assuming Asus didn't do anything to cool this poor MOSFET it won't work without heatsink, right?
Well, not really. See, thermal resistance is one of this values that isn't exact all. It is used to simplify the job of the people designing electronics (like me). The given thermal resistance is usually determined in a test with natural convection (still air) because most of the time this is the scenario it is used under.
In a computer with an air cooler you will have forced convection and with that a significantly lower thermal resistance.
This combined with the fact that Ausu DID make the cooling pads under the MOSFETs significantly bigger than the minimum recommended pad means that the MOSFETS will work just fine without any heatsink.

This is why you really don't need these big blocks of aluminium on the VRM. Without any heatsink at all the MOSFETs will probably have a junction temperature somewhere around 70-100°C (maximum) which is just fine.
If you want you can always add a small heatsink (like Asrock has) on the MOSFETS and the temperature will be even lower.

TL;DR:
The heatsinks on a VRM with more than 6 phases are in most situations just eye candy. You can remove them if you want to or replace them with a much smaller one.

Thanks for this detailed explanation. If I work up the courage/motivation to do this I may do so, as it would let me orient the Cooltek LP53 so that the fins were perpendicular with the RAM and the air flow would go vertical. As seated now it's just pushing air right into the IO panel and the RAM, which I am worried about. Haven't benched it yet.

 

[dominathan]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

I can't wait to see if this works!!! If it does, I'm going to need to find myself a vice.

 

[ahmedelamin_]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

Would also be very very interested in such results.

 

[fxxxit]

Just got the automated email response for shipping to Australia.

Just have to wait for Ryzen and a decent ITX MOBO and maybe Vega..
I imagine that that AMD builds will have the same if not more problems with coolers, doubt the stock 95w cooler is going to fit.

Great to see lots of builds coming together though.

Yup me too. Although I have my build ready to migrate from my Silverstone SG13 to the A4.

Following this thread closely to see what CPU cooler solution works as I refuse to put an ugly Noctua in this case.

 

[Meccabolix]

Hi everyone, I just did a test with the C7 cooler on the AR05 heat sink:



Idle temps:



Prime 95 temps:



Idle fan speed: 980 RPM

Full fan speed: 2500 RPM

Again, i'm running a 6700k at 4.4Ghz and it hits 100°C even with the loud C7 fan on the prime 95 test, avoid the AR05 cooler if you want to overclock. It took much longer to get to 100°C than the ar05's fan though, which is something.

I also removed the heat sinks from the Tritan Z's in preparation for the nexus cooler.

 

[Blackreplica]

Hi everyone, I just did a test with the C7 cooler on the AR05 heat sink:



Idle temps:

View attachment 17368

Prime 95 temps:

View attachment 17369

Idle fan speed: 980 RPM

Full fan speed: 2500 RPM

Again, i'm running a 6700k at 4.4Ghz and it hits 100°C even with the loud C7 fan on the prime 95 test, avoid the AR05 cooler if you want to overclock. It took much longer to get to 100°C than the ar05's fan though, which is something.

I also removed the heat sinks from the Tritan Z's in preparation for the nexus cooler.

Any chance you're planning to do the same thing with the noctua slim fan and C7 heatsink?

 

[Meccabolix]

Any chance you're planning to do the same thing with the noctua slim fan and C7 heatsink?

Yup, when it finally gets delivered along with the lp53

 

[mcheddadi]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

Im looking forward to seeing the resultat of this haha! God i hope it works

I also ordered this one too to try, there is a rather good chance it might work

http://imgur.com/a/r8j6O


I'll heat the pipes and clamp them in a vise too. 8mm should definitly be possible and even more with grinding the fins above the ram or using shorter motherboard standoffs

 

[mcheddadi]

if we can squish it in a clamp I think we got a winner here. jump to 11m29s in the video

 

[makenick]

do some benchmarking, PLEASE!

10 minutes Prime 95 26.6 results, ambient temperature around 25° C:

CPU is running with -0,12 V offset. After test the whole system calms down way faster compared to Jonsbro + 25 mm fan. For me it seems to be a good idea to blow air outwards of case. I´m quite happy with that result and curious about temperatures when delidded.

 

[Wazzuppi]

Just got the automated email response for shipping to Australia.

Just have to wait for Ryzen and a decent ITX MOBO and maybe Vega..
I imagine that that AMD builds will have the same if not more problems with coolers, doubt the stock 95w cooler is going to fit.

Great to see lots of builds coming together though.

I am waiting on Zen, Vega here in melbourne, will probably sit on my case for a few months until i see benchmarks

10 minutes Prime 95 26.6 results, ambient temperature around 25° C:

View attachment 17392

CPU is running with -0,12 V offset. After test the whole system calms down way faster compared to Jonsbro + 25 mm fan. For me it seems to be a good idea to blow air outwards of case. I´m quite happy with that result and curious about temperatures when delidded.

Best temps yet, im curious about the Big Shiruken 2 results aswell

 

[dominathan]

https://www.quietpc.com/shuriken-big-2

I think I might try to "squish" this in a vice, as long as the heat pipes don't kink I think it could be ok. Only have to reduce its height by 8-10mm... It reviews very well here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1270-page8.html

Actually, won't that just have the same turbulence issues we're dealing with the others?

 

[mcheddadi]

Actually, won't that just have the same turbulence issues we're dealing with the others?

if you leave at least 2mm then it's ok, as they showed previously with swapping the c7 cooler's fan with the noctua A9x14. and if it makes too much noise then it'll be a confirmation that 120mm fans arn't exempt from this turbulence effect lol.

 

[Diverge]

until you see server RAM with heatsinks, RAM heatsinks aren't necessary and can be removed

I have plenty of server ram in my esxi server. I also know ram heatsinks are a gimmick. You totally misinterpreted my post.

 

[SideSwiped]

What's the story with the DEMCiflex Dustfilter? $45 for USA customers on overclockers? Are there other options?

 

[MrLahn]

if you leave at least 2mm then it's ok, as they showed previously with swapping the c7 cooler's fan with the noctua A9x14. and if it makes too much noise then it'll be a confirmation that 120mm fans arn't exempt from this turbulence effect lol.

I already posted that I swapped my C7 fan with the Cryorig XT140 (140x140x13mm fan), and it was just as noisy as C7 fan.

 

[blonda007]

What's the story with the DEMCiflex Dustfilter? $45 for USA customers on overclockers? Are there other options?

I used this

2 x NCASE-M1-Top

 

[danij3l]

that ain't gonna win any beauty contests

 

[mirgus]

I think they should be installed inside the case and not outside of the case.

 

[Blackreplica]

To those considering custom cables, my cables from moddiy have arrived. Lengths are exactly as requested (as i wrote in the order comments) and quality looks very good. I paid $67usd for a 150mm 24pin atx cable, 250mm 8 pin EPS cable, and 2 200mm PCIE cables.

For those with corsair SF PSUs, I made my order for this item: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Corsair-SF600-Premium-Single-Sleeved-Modular-Cable-Set-(Black{47}Red).html

And then specified the lengths i needed in the order comments just before confirming the order. I didnt get any acknowledgement of my request for custom lengths but they arrived exactly as requested.

Note: in case you didnt know,the requested lengths will be for cable length and will not include the length of the plugs

Will post pics when my build is done. I sure hope the cable lengths work for the strix z270I!!

 

[StrawKite]

How wide is the space on the GPU side of the case? 5 cm or something like that?

 

[Shaav]

41mm

 

[iippo]

is there any page, where people have collected some general info on what works with the case and what not?

i got two of these nice cases for myself, but frankly havent had the time to concentrate and really find out what im still lacking in order to move my kids computers stuff to the DAN case.

i have Silverstone SX600-G, would someone know what cable length is ok for it? i was thinking i need to probably order shorter cables from somewhere, as i have no skills to make short ones myself. also i have no idea of the optimal SATA cable lengths, but atleast those are cheap and easy enough to get.

i have to LP53's atm, i suppose if i want to use them i need to buy couple slim noctua fans and somehow attach them with cable ties or something? this actually works fine for long term without making weird noises etc?

ive got yet no idea when ill do the 2nd case - whether i move my own comps stuff inside it or build Ryzen set in it - but i think ill be needing new PSU in the near future. Whats the current silent PSU to go for?

thanks

 

[Aircoookie]

There is a GPU compatibility list and IIRC it was attempted to start some spreadsheets for compatibility.

For the SFX psu, the included stock cables work ok, exact lenghts needed for custom cable vary with GPU size and motherboard layout.

Cable ties seem to work fine, but I'd maybe try using rubber pads in between or something.

Go with SF450. It seems to even be more silent than your SF600.

 

[illram]

is there any page, where people have collected some general info on what works with the case and what not?

i got two of these nice cases for myself, but frankly havent had the time to concentrate and really find out what im still lacking in order to move my kids computers stuff to the DAN case.

i have Silverstone SX600-G, would someone know what cable length is ok for it? i was thinking i need to probably order shorter cables from somewhere, as i have no skills to make short ones myself. also i have no idea of the optimal SATA cable lengths, but atleast those are cheap and easy enough to get.

i have to LP53's atm, i suppose if i want to use them i need to buy couple slim noctua fans and somehow attach them with cable ties or something? this actually works fine for long term without making weird noises etc?

ive got yet no idea when ill do the 2nd case - whether i move my own comps stuff inside it or build Ryzen set in it - but i think ill be needing new PSU in the near future. Whats the current silent PSU to go for?

thanks

Cable ties/zip ties on the LP53 work fine and no rubber mount is needed for silent operation. Just stick it right on the cooler. You could also fashion a metal retention hinge or use rubber bands, even. Whatever works to just make it secure. You want to minimize adding any height to the Noctua A9x14 at all since one of the primary benefits of the LP53 +A9x14 is you are going to have more clearance between the side panel and the fan, versus something like the C7. Sticking anything in between is going to add uneccessary height.

 

[Kreyyr]

After completing my build I ran some benches. Maybe some of you are interested in the results

CPU: i7-7700K delidded + Noctua NH-L9i

Idle: about 38°C (980 rpm)
Prime v26.6 blend: max 89°C (2500 rpm)​

 

[Yoshikan]

Guys, for those who buys an Asus Z270I and who plan to buy custom cables by Cablemod, wait for yout motherboard, there's a 20% discount coupon in the box.

 

[jtcera]

rder for th

To those considering custom cables, my cables from moddiy have arrived. Lengths are exactly as requested (as i wrote in the order comments) and quality looks very good. I paid $67usd for a 150mm 24pin atx cable, 250mm 8 pin EPS cable, and 2 200mm PCIE cables.

For those with corsair SF PSUs, I made my order for this item: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Corsair-SF600-Premium-Single-Sleeved-Modular-Cable-Set-(Black{47}Red).html

And then specified the lengths i needed in the order comments just before confirming the order. I didnt get any acknowledgement of my request for custom lengths but they arrived exactly as requested.

Note: in case you didnt know,the requested lengths will be for cable length and will not include the length of the plugs

Will post pics when my build is done. I sure hope the cable lengths work for the strix z270I!!

I asked them if I can order the same set in all black. I don't like the red/black mix.

 

[p0lish]

To those considering custom cables, my cables from moddiy have arrived. Lengths are exactly as requested (as i wrote in the order comments) and quality looks very good. I paid $67usd for a 150mm 24pin atx cable, 250mm 8 pin EPS cable, and 2 200mm PCIE cables.

For those with corsair SF PSUs, I made my order for this item: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Corsair-SF600-Premium-Single-Sleeved-Modular-Cable-Set-(Black{47}Red).html

And then specified the lengths i needed in the order comments just before confirming the order. I didnt get any acknowledgement of my request for custom lengths but they arrived exactly as requested.

Note: in case you didnt know,the requested lengths will be for cable length and will not include the length of the plugs

Will post pics when my build is done. I sure hope the cable lengths work for the strix z270I!!

Ya let us know, I was thinking of doing custom cables as well with the strix!

 

[StrawKite]

41mm

thanks. Do you happen to also know how wide a gpu is with a waterblock mounted to it?

 

[dondan]

The last two evenings i worked on the new heatsink.

The current heatsink with have the project name HSLP-48. It based on the AXP-100, but it is bigger and has nearly the same size as the Nexus. Currently I plan to work together with Thermalrigt so I can bundle it with the TY-100 FAN. The fan will be mounted with anti vibration rubbers so you can mount the fan in that position you need it. The heatsink will support normal RAM height. Here are some renderings. I will open a new thread in the next days.

Kickstarter-Update: 550 cases will be shiped tomorrow and the next 200 on Friday. My toner is empty so I have to wait for a new one to make the last 70 cases ready.

 

[akhilv1]

The last two evenings i worked on the new heatsink.

The current heatsink with have the project name HSLP-48. It based on the AXP-100, but it is bigger and has nearly the same size as the Nexus. Currently I plan to work together with Thermalrigt so I can bundle it with the TY-100 FAN. The fan will be mounted with anti vibration rubbers so you can mount the fan in that position you need it. The heatsink will support normal RAM height. Here are some renderings. I will open a new thread in the next days.

Kickstarter-Update: 550 cases will be shiped tomorrow and the next 200 on Friday. My toner is empty so I have to wait for a new one to make the last 70 cases ready.

Seems like a pretty good design. I'm sticking with the stock cooler for now, so when the time comes, I will definitely be pre-ordering this cooler.

 

[mcheddadi]

FULL COPPER please. I don't mind paying extra, or at least the contact with the cpu so we can Liquid metal thermal paste. btw whats with the big gap in the fins?

 

[dondan]

The gab is necessary for mounting the rentention kit. I hink full copper will end up in a price nobody is ready to pay. But I will check that later.