DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

[Eggyegg]

I thought I saw some people talking about placing a small fan (~92mm) on the bottom of the case for drawing air into the case in the last 2 pages or so. Do you think it'd work to help reduce the temp and would someone be kind enough to a) see if this idea even works, b) any changes in temps?
I really dig the window-ed version, and I'd like to help make it work for people who are interested.
I am too currently considering the possibility of raising the legs to make the clearance higher between the bottom of the case and the desk surface larger, and maybe mount a few slim fans in there to create a positive pressure case and just have the windows as a passive exhaust vent.

Edit: Answering the questions:
1) I prefer the design with the rounded edges at the front
2) Acrylic for transport's sake, but if packaging and transport isn't an issue I'd go for glass as acrylic scratches real easy and you cannot remove the scratches once they're bedded in i.e. finger nails). Though I also like the idea of just being able to go DIY at the local hardware store and get random coloured acrylic when/if I get bored of the clear colour.
3) Results - could be better
4) I'd say wait and see, continue to see if anyone here can help improve the temperatures in the case. I'd imagine people interested in the window-ed version would place the appearance of the case higher than the rest of the folk using the normal case. (may finances too) - I apologise if I offended anyone with that sentence. I would also like the option of tinted/coloured glass though I understand the problems you have listed with your description. Coloured acrylic may be a cool thing to dabble with though.

general thoughts - what's the distance between the inner surface of the acrylic and the outer surface of the case? Is it 18mm as per the glass? 18mm is a fair gap and I would highly doubt the benefits of increasing that gap any further...

 

[dondan]

Yes this will be possible if you use a thin fan under 15mm, but this is very bulky, because there are no mounting points for the fan.

 

[ranix]

thanks Daniel,

just bought the Nexus Low 700 r2 for 20 dol on amazon.

can you please also say more about how noisy this cooler is? I hope we can change the 120 *120 fan with another one even better.

thanks for you work and review.

mMay be you could search for another supplier for the window panel.
The idea is good, but there is something off with the design.
Sadly i fdon t have any design talent, but I hope someone will come with a cool idea.

 

[dondan]

Hi Ranix,

you also need the Thermalright AXP100 classic mounting stuff and fan to use that cooler on a 115x socket. Furthermore two fan Anti-Vibration rubber for mounting the Thermalright fan under the heatsink. Maybe you can get the Kit and fan without the heatsink if you contact Thermalright support. If you plan to use it on a 2011 Setup you also need the Thermalright Narrow Ilm kit and mod with a saw.

 

[mirgus]

That Fan in the botton is a pretty good idea. Question is whether drilling is needed or with luck the gaps already fit. Gonna try the Noctua 14mm Fan there. If its doesnt help the CPU because of the extra pcb at the Maximus VII impact, then it probably helps the GPU a bit

Gonna Order the corsair sf450 soon and will give u guys an opinion of the noise

 

[dondan]

It will fit inside the gab. Drilling is only needed on the Thermalright mounting kit so, that the long heatsing will fit inside the mounting overlay.

You have to unscrew the following parts:

 

[Eggyegg]

That Fan in the botton is a pretty good idea. Question is whether drilling is needed or with luck the gaps already fit. Gonna try the Noctua 14mm Fan there. If its doesnt help the CPU because of the extra pcb at the Maximus VII impact, then it probably helps the GPU a bit

What i was proposing was a larger fan than just a 92mm... possibly 1-2x 120mm fans would be awesome. But drilling would probably be required for that. If there is drilling though - I'm sure most of us can or knows someone that can manage a couple small circular holes using an electric drill with a metal drill bit attached to it. I'm not overly worried about that, neither am i planning on making an entire cutout for the fan - though that could be an option to allow the fan to half stick in and out of the case.

 

[Chapeau]

DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test


Introduction:

I plan to offer a Window Kit for the A4-SFX in summer 2017. It will be accessories so you can buy it separately. I plan to sell each side for its own,
so you can decide if you need only one side or both. Therefore I worked with Lian Li on two samples. One with tempered glass and the other one is made
out of acryl. The design isn’t final so if you have wishes or ideas to the design don’t wait and write your comment in the thread.



Acryl/Plexi Version:

I use a 3mm thick acryl glass for this version. The acryl version is a bit darker then the tempered glass one. The quality is nearly on the same level
as the tempered glass version. Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. After I removed the protection foil the first time the acryl is
static charged. This means the panel attracts hair and dust. Wiping the panels with a wet cleaning rag will stop that forever.
For the final price the acryl is around 10€ cheaper.


(click for higher resolution)



Tempered Glass Version:

For the tempered glass version I had trouble getting what I want. In Taiwan the tempered glass market is controlled by the government, so it is very hard
to get every thickness and color. For the needed 3mm version it was impossible to get it in tea black, so I have to use the default version.
Furthermore tempered glass has restriction for the holes. I had to use a 5mm diameter for the mounting holes and the distance from the holes to the outer
surface has to be 18mm.

Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. The corners have a green gloss that is typical for not colored tempered glass. I have no static charged
problem with the tempered glass panels.



(click for higher resolution)



Temperature Values:

I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.

If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a
passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.

The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as
expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.

To explain why the temps are higher, I have to explain why the default panel will work so well:

• 
  
  
  • The fan can suck fresh air directly from the outside. Nearly 90% of the air will be taken from the outside and not from the inside.
  • The fan creates positive air pressure inside the case, because of blowing air inside. This pressure will force hot air to move outside on the top.

Now I will explain it for the window panel:

• 
  
  
  • The fan suck fresh air not directly from the outside, because there are no venting holes in the glass. So nearly 80% of the air will be used air from the
    inside. I thought the gab will be enough to getting new fresh air, but a small 92mm fan is not strong and fast enough for this. So only 20% of the air will be air from the gab.
  • The window kit isn’t closed enough, so the fan isn’t able to crate positive pressure because the air can move everywhere.

These two reasons will increase the temp more and more, because the fan recycles hot air. It will stop at the point, where the 20% exchange through the gab
is enough for holding the temperature.



Conclusion:

For myself, I am very happy with the look, quality and feel of the new side panels. I made the decision to use them permanent on my system and living with
higher temps because benchmarking is not my daily business.

But the best surprise for me of the new test is the Nexus 7000 Low R2, it looks so great and is so powerful. But the best thing it is currently the best
heatsink for the A4 and it will also work with the default panels. (I will offer a how-to later)



Your decision:

Now it is up to you. Keep in mind that I used a 140W TDP CPU with the window.

• 
  
  
  • Do you like the design of the panel?
  • What is your favorite version tempered or acryl?
  • Do you think the results are ok or should I redesign the panels?
  • What is more important design or good cooling. Adding holes will make the visibility worse.

If you think you have a idea that can change everything or an optimizing to the current design like round corners for the glass, please use the attached picture to visualize your idea.



(click for higher resolution)


With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me

Daniel

Hey Daniel..... serious serious props for posting all of that up.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone go to the trouble of testing what is a rather niche design option, let alone release temp figures like that.
If I was in a position to vote with my wallet I absolutely would having followed this thread. Basically the highest endorsement a regular internet shmuck like me can give..

Keep up the good work!!

 

[vipz]

Here is a version with round front corners what do you think?

 

[Necere]

DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test

Temperature Values:

I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.

If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.

The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.

I'm a little confused about how you managed to fit either the Nexus 7000 Low (70mm tall) or the AXP-100H (65mm tall) in there. The cooler height limit is still only 48mm, correct? Even with the extra clearance with the glass/acrylic side panel (+6.5mm, by my reckoning), it's not nearly enough. Unless you're not using the stock fans, and have underslung fans instead? But from looking at those coolers, neither one seems suitable for an underslung fan. Also, even without a fan, the AXP-100H is 51mm tall, 3mm taller than the listed limit with the default panels, yet you have cooling numbers for it with the default panels? Have I missed something, or?

 

[Hotshot619]

I think the revised rounded front end looks better than the test samples and I completely agree some simple black thumb screws would keep the sleek aesthetic over the screws that are in the samples. I don't think I would really want a windowed version before I update my hardware as temperatures are important for me since I run my PC 24/7. I think those two modifications would improve these sample window side panels.

 

[tviceman]

I thought I saw some people talking about placing a small fan (~92mm) on the bottom of the case for drawing air into the case in the last 2 pages or so. Do you think it'd work to help reduce the temp and would someone be kind enough to a) see if this idea even works, b) any changes in temps?
I really dig the window-ed version, and I'd like to help make it work for people who are interested.
I am too currently considering the possibility of raising the legs to make the clearance higher between the bottom of the case and the desk surface larger, and maybe mount a few slim fans in there to create a positive pressure case and just have the windows as a passive exhaust vent.

That Fan in the botton is a pretty good idea. Question is whether drilling is needed or with luck the gaps already fit. Gonna try the Noctua 14mm Fan there. If its doesnt help the CPU because of the extra pcb at the Maximus VII impact, then it probably helps the GPU a bit

Gonna Order the corsair sf450 soon and will give u guys an opinion of the noise

I brought up the idea of doing this on the previous page or two. I wasn't the first to mention it, though. In order to mount a bottom fan you would need to drill holes for ventilation and remove the drive cage. Without drilling holes for ventilation there is no where for the fan to suck in fresh air.

 

[Pantera_666]

Considering that temperatures with windowed panels will be JUST worse...

Here are my two cents:

- Acrylic windows for lower cost, and weight
- Screw-less, glued window (call it double side tape or whatever glue method other cases use...)
- About the same ventilation that the other(s) prototypes (very little...)
- 3mm (maybe 5mm???) distance (spacers, mounts, screws, whatever...) from the case/chasis
- Don't throw the original design to the trash, while adding a window regardless
- You can play with the distance between the vent holes and the window for easier manufacturing/fabrication (common sense, this was just 5 minutes in microsoft paint...)


Another thing, and don't get me wrong, but...

Prava has some points... He can sound rude (maybe a douche?), but he has the balls to say it...

dondan :

As much as i really like and appreciate (and support...) your hard work and effort, your version of windowed panels has a lot of flaws in the design/looks...

Forget the temps, they are gonna be JUST worse...

Nothing you can do about it, it's not your fault...

I'm saying this with all the respect that you deserve... Please make a revision, i really want to get one regardless of the temps...

 

[stelsevo]

Hi Ranix,

you also need the Thermalright AXP100 classic mounting stuff and fan to use that cooler on a 115x socket. Furthermore two fan Anti-Vibration rubber for mounting the Thermalright fan under the heatsink. Maybe you can get the Kit and fan without the heatsink if you contact Thermalright support. If you plan to use it on a 2011 Setup you also need the Thermalright Narrow Ilm kit and mod with a saw.

Mounting stuff and fan from AXP-100 Muscle is ok?
Is it possible to mount slim 120mm fun on Nexus?
Waiting for how-to.

 

[pendragon1]

DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test


(click for higher resolution)


With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me

Daniel

any chance you can do a copy of this overlaid on a side on view of the case edge? that way we can see where the push-pin sockets are and the corner edges. any way that they could make the metal panel as small as possible and the glass a little bigger, maybe use the push pin sockets(or replace them, can they come out?) to attach the glass too.

 

[makenick]

When I think about this sidepanel and bad temperatures, what about drilled (or something else cutted out) acryl? It´s transparent and has better airflow.

dondan I imagine board temperatures with blow-out-fans should be higher, do you have results?

 

[makenick]

I brought up the idea of doing this on the previous page or two. I wasn't the first to mention it, though. In order to mount a bottom fan you would need to drill holes for ventilation and remove the drive cage. Without drilling holes for ventilation there is no where for the fan to suck in fresh air.

Right. Because it is out of range so no danger for fingers I will drill big holes or use my Dremel to cut something else.

What i was proposing was a larger fan than just a 92mm... possibly 1-2x 120mm fans would be awesome. But drilling would probably be required for that. If there is drilling though - I'm sure most of us can or knows someone that can manage a couple small circular holes using an electric drill with a metal drill bit attached to it. I'm not overly worried about that, neither am i planning on making an entire cutout for the fan - though that could be an option to allow the fan to half stick in and out of the case.

Case is 112 mm wide, so unfortunately no chance for a 120 mm fan. Half stick in an out maybe a problem because housing foot are just a few mm of hight.

 

[mirgus]

I think the sight Panel for the gpu is perfect, doesnt Effect the temperature and there is more space for modding

Dan will u make a poll with the suggestions?

 

[pellen]

I think the sight Panel for the gpu is perfect, doesnt Effect the temperature and there is more space for modding

Dan will u make a poll with the suggestions?

I'm guessing that the GPU temps aren't as affected because of the blower style cooler, as all air coming in thanks to the spacers is fresh, and then blown outside of the case when it has gotten heated up by the GPU.

 

[Jann5s]

Here is a version with round front corners what do you think?

I would like this better, it will match better with the case. The temperatures are disappointing tho, the original design is really efficient. Isn't it an option to just add more holes to the original panel to have a "window"

 

[dondan]

Chapeau: Thank you.

vipz: Looks great, but it will not work with the A4-SFX because the backside isn't rounded.

Necere: He he, yes the trick is to mount a Thermalright TY-100 FAN under the heatsink (Nexus=50mm, AXP100H=52mm). The Nexus will fit with default panel but the AXP100H only with the window kit.

Pantera_666: Thank you for your design idea. I think it will be impossible to glue the acryl if is surounded by venting holes. Furthermore your version is without stand offs so it will be impossible to mount the acryl because there is not enough space between PSU and side panel.

stelsevo: Maybe yes, but this will not help by getting better temps, because the fan is bigger as the heatsink. So much air will not go though the heatsink.

Pendragon: I will correct it for you if the stand offs in your drawing will collide with the pins. But keep in mind, if you make the metal panel smaller you will lose the stiffness, so it could be if you remove the panel it will bend and stay in that form.

makenick: Yes with the default panel the temps are higher if the fan pushing the air outside the case. But with the window kit it will lower the temps, because it will help pushing more hot air outside the case.

mirgus: If we finalized some Window ideas I will make a poll.

 

[cowsgomoo2]

I don't see any space to mount the fan below without modding.

 

[dondan]

You can easily unscrew the block under the heatsink, than you have 22mm left space. Furthermore the default mounting kit will not work, because of the high push-pins so as I told, you have to use the mounting kit of the thermalright axp100, that perfectly work with that heatsink.

 

[makenick]

That Fan in the botton is a pretty good idea. Question is whether drilling is needed or with luck the gaps already fit. Gonna try the Noctua 14mm Fan there. If its doesnt help the CPU because of the extra pcb at the Maximus VII impact, then it probably helps the GPU a bit

Gonna Order the corsair sf450 soon and will give u guys an opinion of the noise

The corsair sf 450 is also my current favorite. A test recommend a cold bottomside or some airflow at the bottomside for it to be silent. I also think the M2 at the backside of my board like some airflow to not be grilled by warmth from board and gpu backside. Looking forward for a nice modding-time

 

[dondan]

Here are some[ ideas of adding vents for better cooling:

 

[HoodedHusky]

Love #7 (in glass!), or #5 (with the extra 2 mounts)

Now all we need to do is to clean up the mounting screws.

Maybe make them into a "feature", something like an illuminated standoff you can get for mounting signs?

 

[mirgus]

Best way to Figure out what Works, i would make some Design ideas out of cardboard to Check whether it acutally Works.

 

[stelsevo]

You can easily unscrew the block under the heatsink, than you have 22mm left space. Furthermore the default mounting kit will not work, because of the high push-pins so as I told, you have to use the mounting kit of the thermalright axp100, that perfectly work with that heatsink.

Dondan, can you share photo with nexus + thermalright fan?

 

[vipz]

vipz: Looks great, but it will not work with the A4-SFX because the backside isn't rounded.

I understand if you don't want to change the pull-tab's design, but other than that what is preventing the pull-tab to be changed to a roundrect shape?

Personally I don't see the trapezoidal pull-tabs to be anywhere near a defining feature of the A4's design. I don't think it's a good idea to base the shape of the window on it.

 

[Pantera_666]

Thank you for your design idea. I think it will be impossible to glue the acryl if is surounded by venting holes. Furthermore your version is without stand offs so it will be impossible to mount the acryl because there is not enough space between PSU and side panel

Thank you for your quick answer Dan, but you didn't paid enough attention to my post....

1.
You said: "it will be impossible to glue the acryl if is surounded by venting holes"
I said: "You can play with the distance between the vent holes and the window"

2.
You said: "Furthermore your version is without stand offs so it will be impossible to mount the acryl because there is not enough space between PSU and side panel"
I said: "3mm (maybe 5mm???) distance (spacers, mounts, screws, whatever...) from the case/chasis"

 

[StrawKite]

Just drill some holes in the acrylic, that'll fix the heat. And make the holes in a nice pattern.

 

[amvoith]

Make the entire side panel an acrylic window. Then use an adhesive to attach the panel clips to the window. You can use a tint around the edge of the panel to hide the adhesive of the clips when looking at the case.

Then offer a version with cut outs/holes in the window for airflow and a solid version for those of us who plan to watercool this beast and don't really need much airflow

 

[Blackreplica]

I think a flush mount acrylic panel with holes for venting (same pattern as the regular side panel) is the best option still dondan. Just my 2 cents.

 

[updawg]

My suggestion for the glass/acrylic side panels would be to narrow the window so you can just see the GPU and then put a hole pattern on the metal itself above and below the window. Similarly on the CPU side I would only keep the window over the motherboard because no one wants to see the excess of wires on a PSU, and that way you can put vent holes over the PSU.

 

[dondan]

mirgus: Thank you for that tip. Today I test two design ideas with a window made out of cardboard. I will show results later.


stelsevo: Yes I will do this later. Currently my focus is on the window kit and planing the shipment of the Kickstarter cases.


vipz: I love your idea using the round corners for the rear protrusions. But we will have one problem with this version, what will be if a customer buys only the left side Window Kit. This user will have a case with two different rear protrusions.


Pantera_666: You are right sorry for that. I think your idea itself can work, but I don't think it will solve the heat problem. Furthermore I don't like the holes around the glass. What does the other think?


StrawKite: I did this with a cardboard prototype window to test it. I will shoe you results later.


amvoith: I have a bad feeling with gluing the pins to the acryl. The panels can become warm that can weak the glue. If you remove the panels often, I am afraid that the glue connection can break. This could end in many warranty cases. Also the idea with different versions for water and air cooling users will be too much overhead.


Blackreplica: Yes you are right, but we will have two problems: 1.) How we mount the pins on the panel? 2.) A laser made acryl panel with 1700 holes (like the default panel has) is unpayable.


updawg: Maybe I have to make a drawing in CAD to visualize what you mean. I think it will not look very good, but I will try it.

 

[jjsyht]

I'm not interested in a window, but...
Why would you want to show your psu & cpu fan (except it would be the Only case where cpu AND gpu are shown on their best side). This side is messy and only shows 2 fans, and D's tests shows its no good for temps - not worth it in my opinion.

Now, not having a cpu side window would also mean that gpu side window can be smaller (wont be symmetrical anyway), showing only the gpu. The advantages would be

• No ugly slot/cables in view
• Smaller opening close to the fans would (probably) mean more airflow from outside

My 2c.
Am still not getting a window though.

 

[dondan]

Today I made some prototype Window Panels out of cardboard with my plotter, to test some designs. Here are the results:

 

[jjsyht]

Wow, didn't think the holes would make that much difference.
If the cpu was starving for air, wouldn't it be the same for psu? So maybe more intake near the front... Like #2

 

[mirgus]

Nice test personally i would vote for the gap in the middle. just looks cleaner

2 would be my favorite and 4 the alternative

Temps with Glas could be a bit higher because of the heat radiation (dont know whether its the right english Term). Glas does Reflect radiation pretty good
Awesome results!

 

[Deleted member 288494]

Quite surprised by the improvement of just the line in the middle. As said before, the PSU also needs ventilation so I'd say the line would be best, or a completely perforated windows of course. That way, it would also be possible to keep the original thickness?