Like I said. Just ignore his existence. Don't worry about what he says. He ignores testing in leu of his own beliefs and frequently flames people. Trolls like him are not interested in discussion but to get a rise out of you. He frequents other boards and is equally abrasive there as well.
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DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world
- Thread starter dondan
- Start date
Like I said. Just ignore his existence. Don't worry about what he says. He ignores testing in leu of his own beliefs and frequently flames people. Trolls like him are not interested in discussion but to get a rise out of you. He frequents other boards and is equally abrasive there as well.
iFreilicht
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You know guys, if you just click on a user, you get a pop-up that reads "Ignore". If you click that, you won't have to deal with any of it.
Done. Haha.
D
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Problem is that my own testing on the M1 show very different results. I can tell you that my 290X non-blower would make the M1 roasty after a few hours of intense gaming. That translates into drive temperatures spiking above 50ºC, something that is unacceptable by my standards. Mind you, the card itself will still feature very acceptable temperatures (the Sapphire tri-X is one of the best versions in regards of cooling and noise), but the rest of the case won't. To the point that the whole case is very warm to the touch.
All in all the problem itself isn't on the gpu, nor the cpu. Both components will get some form of fresh air from the outside... the problem is that the lack of airflow inside the case will force some of the heat to pass on to the case itself. And by doing that you are heating up every single component inside the case, and because there is no active cooling inside the case, there is no means of evacuating that heat outside of the enclosure.
I simply doubt claims that I find unfounded, whether they come from a company or another member. How could I agree on something without any strong backing, specially when my own experiences (and logic) contradicts it? It is very funny that some users call me a "troll"... as if they had any idea of what trolling is, in reality.
crisisv87akd
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Though I get your point, it makes no sense to be too pushy on the matter, since none of us has the case on hands. Dan does, until we receive our cases and test, we would be debating over theories built in the air.
cowsgomoo2
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But your standards has no bearings with reality. Here's a temperature analysis of failure rates of hard disks by IBM. In the end your feelings about what temperatures electronics components should run at don't matter. Humans and electronics just have different temperature tolerances.
I don't really care about heat degradation of electronics as that will take so many years, and us target audience are not the kind to still be using 5 year old CPUs and GPUs to feel the effect.
Sandybridge is over 5 years old and is what I might be using in the case until a decent upgrade is finally released.
On a side note, I hope Linus takes back what he said about open air GPU coolers in this case after testing out the EVGA card in the A4-SFX.
It is claims like these, based on no testing at all (since we don't have the case) which I generally don't like. I hope people don't order their expensive founders editions to find out later that having an open air is better. I'm not saying open air is better, i'm just not sure (but i guess it will be since Dan confirmed it). Stating that something is the best possible solution is not very constructive for the discussion.
D
Deleted member 222586
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But your standards has no bearings with reality. Here's a temperature analysis of failure rates of hard disks by IBM. In the end your feelings about what temperatures electronics components should run at don't matter. Humans and electronics just have different temperature tolerances.
I don't really care about heat degradation of electronics as that will take so many years, and us target audience are not the kind to still be using 5 year old CPUs and GPUs to feel the effect.
Well, it depends on the study you check. This guys found a direct correlation between drive temperature and failure rates
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gurumurthi/papers/acmtos13.pdf
For the record, the image you picture shows something very different that what you are mentioning: that graph shows that the failure rate is lowest at a middle-ground temperature (35ºC to 45ºC) but it increases on the sides of the graph... so, according to this study low temperatures (sub 35ºC) are as bad as high temperatures (over 45ºC).
this is not accurate. 3 fans on the GPU means 3 fans worth of airflow inside the case. that's 3 fans worth of pressure blowing hot air out of every hole in the case. please stop spreading FUD in this thread
re: hard drive temperatures. the SSD/hdd slot in this case is right next to the GPU. anything there WILL get hot. if you want it less hot, don't pick a GPU that blows hot air on it. I can get behind this idea. but we need to wait for real numbers from real testers to know exactly what happens there.
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We can put the hard drive/ssd in the front of the case
One thing you're forgetting is that the air will get quite heated when passing the GPU heatsink. This compared to a regular case fan which also pushes air in, with the exception that it won't get heated.
Now I don't know how hot the air will get, but lets say (SPECULATION) that the air exiting the GPU heatsink is 50C°. That air is going warm up the rest of the case on it's way out as the GPU fans pulls in new air.
So both the CPU and GPU will have adequate cooling as they both pull fresh air from the perforated case. RAM might be cool enough by the CPU fan as that air probably wont get as hot as the GPU air. SSD/HDD should also be fine as long as it stays under 60C°.
A blower GPU will probably keep the case cooler, but I don't know if it matter
Man, you guys are like broken records saying the same thing over and over. Dondan has tested this and we are taking his word for it. An open cooler type gpu makes sense considering there is no space in between the fans and the case vents.One thing you're forgetting is that the air will get quite heated when passing the GPU heatsink. This compared to a regular case fan which also pushes air in, with the exception that it won't get heated.
Now I don't know how hot the air will get, but lets say (SPECULATION) that the air exiting the GPU heatsink is 50C°. That air is going warm up the rest of the case on it's way out as the GPU fans pulls in new air.
So both the CPU and GPU will have adequate cooling as they both pull fresh air from the perforated case. RAM might be cool enough by the CPU fan as that air probably wont get as hot as the GPU air. SSD/HDD should also be fine as long as it stays under 60C°.
A blower GPU will probably keep the case cooler, but I don't know if it matter
pendragon1
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since these guys know so much, I'm wondering where their custom cases are...
If you are concerned about temperature read this article (German): DAN Cases A4-SFX im Test: Das kleinste Gaming-Gehäuse der Welt kann was (Seite 3)
I would use a 90W CPU + 180W GPU and you are good to go.
I would use a 90W CPU + 180W GPU and you are good to go.
Come on man, did you even read my post? As I said in it, I too think that the temperature on CPU and GPU will be really good as all fans can draw fresh air straight from the vents (as both Dondan's data and the computerbase link shows, no argue there).
I'm just saying that the case temperature probably will be higher with an open cooler, and at the same time a GPU with a blower cooler will probably be hotter as it's not as efficient as an open cooler.
I'm guessing that the case temperature in the A4-SFX doesn't matter that much though. There isn't that many passively cooled components that rely on the case temperature, and the chambers in the case will only make it better
Dondan, is there any data on the difference in case air temperature using blower style vs open cooler? (please don't take this as criticism, I'm only curious as I haven't seen any data on air temperature inside the case...or have I just missed it in this massive thread?)
dondan
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First Post in this thread in the Cooling Spoiler. But only for the GPU itself not for the case temp.
Working with DEMCiflex on it.
Dan: i don't think this graphics card exists
I change it. Thanks
Stack effect is something that happens in big structures with little forced ventilation. In this case with an open air GPU, hot air gets pushed out because there are fans pushing it in. It has to get out somewhere.
The GPU fans act as intake case fans. Bigger cases must have additional fans to avoid recirculating exausted air (and are inefficient in this sense), which do not happen in this case due to the low internal volume.
Why the change?
I just had to replace my Silverstone 450W SFX, because it can't handle overclocking the new titan and 6700K. My PC just started to turn off, then reboot during bechmarks. Installed the Corsair SF600 that I had laying around waiting for the A4-SFX, and all issues went away, even got higher overclocks
It was the first time I had issues with the Siliverston 450W (ST45SF-G)... then again, I never overclocked my maxwell titan.
I just had to replace my Silverstone 450W SFX, because it can't handle overclocking the new titan and 6700K. My PC just started to turn off, then reboot during bechmarks. Installed the Corsair SF600 that I had laying around waiting for the A4-SFX, and all issues went away, even got higher overclocks
It was the first time I had issues with the Siliverston 450W (ST45SF-G)... then again, I never overclocked my maxwell titan.
are you the first person with TITAN XP in mini ITX? congratulations
maybe DAN will send you a case first crisisv87akd
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dondan Any chances on the PCI riser to be pushed slightly further down so we can fit MSI's cards?
dondan
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Sorry no chance, because the GPU Slot bracket will move inside the AC-Power-Inlet and this isn't possible.
Damn, didn't know cards from MSI won't fit at all. Since the GTX 1080 is using the Twin Frozr 6 as well as the RX 480 I don't know what to do. Wanted to get the RX 480 into the DAN because no other AIB is either fitting (ASUS, Powercolor) or nearly as great as MSI (Sapphire...).
Anyone plans to get a RX 480 into the DAN case?
Anyone plans to get a RX 480 into the DAN case?
dondan
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The problem is not the TF 6 cooler it is the high position of te PCIe Power Connector. For the RX480 it is lower so the card will fit.
Spicychicken
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Sent you a PM.
QuantumBraced
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I think the point was made on this thread by myself and others regarding the absurdity of the Razer Core, i.e. that it costs $500 and the economics of it and its intended use don't make any sense, especially considering it is actually 0.5L larger than the A4-SFX. And I was REALLY glad to see Linus make the exact same point/comparison in his Razer Core in-depth review video. It's on Vessel (still haven't cancelled my subscription I got for the A4-SFX build video), and you'll see it on YouTube in a few days, and I guarantee you the end of the video will put a smile on your face!
Curiositie
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I love that visual comparison of the two, really helps give an idea of size.
QuantumBraced
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I just had to replace my Silverstone 450W SFX, because it can't handle overclocking the new titan and 6700K. My PC just started to turn off, then reboot during bechmarks. Installed the Corsair SF600 that I had laying around waiting for the A4-SFX, and all issues went away, even got higher overclocks
It was the first time I had issues with the Siliverston 450W (ST45SF-G)... then again, I never overclocked my maxwell titan.
Yeah, I think you're in the 480-500W range, so a 450W wasn't enough. Though I think the SF450 can actually provide up to 515W of continuous power, so if you'd had it you might have been barely okay, though it's clearly better to have a bit of overhead. And if you had an X99 system with an overclocked 8 or 10-core chip then you'd need 600W. But I think we can all agree 700W unnecessary overkill.
Boil
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My feelings are that the Corsair SF600 is THE optimal SFX PSU for a SFF mITX / single GPU build…
As long as you don't surround it with hot air, because then the fan will ramp up easily and be noisy. We'll see what effect the A4 case will have on it. Also, curious to see what effect the dense Demciflex filters will have on it.
It's way louder than the Corsair SF450. The SF450 will be sufficient for my needs.
Thanks for the quick reply. Just to help me understand this: the dimensions of both cards are identically (1080 is 3 mm longer, same width and height) and both have the PCIe connectors at the end of the pcb. Why is the RX 480 working in the A4 and the 1080 not?
vAro: bottom of PCIe to top of card is the same for all MSI gaming cards (140mm). Bottom of PCIe to top of PCB is different for each. Compare close up photos of the power socket relative to the rest of the cooler for each card. Bit-tech has some good shots.