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DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world
- Thread starter dondan
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pendragon1
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you must be blind or didn't look. its one page back and only on a paid/free trial site...
should be on YT next week.
edit: or someone turfed the link... look on LTT 's vessel page.
Boil
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Never saw a link myself, just the statement that it was on Vessel… Google to the rescue…
And… Pay To View, or 'free' trial…
I will wait a week…
dondan
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Linus managed to assembly a EVGA GTX 1080 Classfield inside the A4-SFX.
So all I need is to win Lotto and I too can build that machine 
Seriously impressive specs though, really makes me wish sodimm's were more popular on itx boards.
Also, Linus recommended blower style GPU's, I was under the impression that open fans would perform better given the proximity to the perforated holes?
Seriously impressive specs though, really makes me wish sodimm's were more popular on itx boards.
Also, Linus recommended blower style GPU's, I was under the impression that open fans would perform better given the proximity to the perforated holes?
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Nice, seems quite tight. No place to add LED with this one
Dondan, could you provide cable dimension so that we can order customized one ahead of receiving the case?
For SFX and SFX-L PSU.
Also do you think that his customised CPU cooler will show better result than the C7?
Dondan, could you provide cable dimension so that we can order customized one ahead of receiving the case?
For SFX and SFX-L PSU.
Also do you think that his customised CPU cooler will show better result than the C7?
EVGA cards have their own LEDsNice, seems quite tight. No place to add LED with this one
I have GTX 1080 SC, you can adjust it to all colors of the rainbow 
Linus managed to assembly a EVGA GTX 1080 Classfield inside the A4-SFX.
The sample You sent to Linus was painted with powder paint or this is anodized aluminium? I'm thinking about those scratches on PSU mounting holes. If it is painted, what kind of RAL color is it (if someone would want to repair those or similar scratches in other places)?
dondan
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Outside parts are anodized and inner parts are painted mate black. So tiny scratches on inner parts are normal if you screw it to tight. I don't know the RAL color.
Alexreffand
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You might get an answer from lian li, since they manufacture it.
I think I heard somewhere he is also planning a 6700K build in the case, which would make more sense. Perhaps he will detail the case a bit more then.
@6:45 he recommends a blower style cooler for the GPU since there are no case fans. However, I think he is wrong that an open-air would really do better, considering that the fans are directly sucking in air thru the side and the cpu is on the other side of the case doing the same.
dondan
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Luke starts filming the review of the case today. So I think we will see it in 1-2 weeks on Vessel.
Was disappointed with Linus recommending a blower-style GPU. Apparently he doesn't understand that the EVGA open air coolers (dual fan) are quieter and cooler due to more air movement at lower fan speed, shorter fins (aligned perpendicular to the log axis of the card, means that heat transfer from fins to air is more efficient as the difference in temperature between the air and fins should be on average higher) and not having to blow most of the hot air through that tiny restricted exhaust area.
D
Deleted member 222586
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Why would you be disappointed with blower-style gpu? In a case without fans it is the best possible solution.
That's true if the card is placed the way it's exhausting hot air to the inside of the chassis which is not what happens with A4-SFX.
Here card takes fresh air from the outside, heats it up a bit, fraction of a degree and exhausts it through the top of the case.
Using open air coolers is a problem with cases that let the card recycle hot air inside the case.
Nope, an open air cooler gpu can be of benefit in this case due to the proximity of the fans to the vent on the side of the case.
CrazyManCan
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Any chance we can get a custom glass side panel for this case so we can see the whole motherboard or gpu?
D
Deleted member 222586
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Jeeez mother of god. You seem to imply that air magically gets out of the case. Without fans being part of it. Also, you imply that air gets heated up "a fraction of a degree" which couldn't be further from the truth. Heck, have you tested your enclosure at all with open-air coolers? Cases with no fans are forced to recycle hot air all the time because, well, there is nothing making that air get in or out of the case. You only have to test your own case to see what happens when you use non-blower cards inside cases that have no forced airflow inside. Just go and find a 290X non-blower and play for several hours straight. Monitor the temperatures of every single component of your case, and the case itself, then panic.
I'm worried that a case designer and seller is making such statements. Have you done any thorough testing whatsoever? Because I'm starting to think that you haven't. Or else you wouldn't be making such claims.
OK.
Put a 250W card, non-blower inside. Play for a few hours while monitoring the temperature of the your components and case itself (ie put a probe on the case itself). Enjoy. So many of you have yet to try high-powered gpu cards in small enclosures. It seems you will find out about the truth the hard way.
What makes it worse is that, somehow, you actually claim that blowers are worse. I have no idea how could you ever get to that conclusion. You couldn't reach it testing, because testing will yield completely different results.. so, how?
Jeeez prava, you always can twist someone's words...
I was of course talking about an open air card that has fans so there is airflow induced by those fans. And if this card gets fresh air from the outside all the time and has exhaust pointed straight out of the case vertically then there shouldn't be any problem with that.
We have different scenario though where in horizontal position there's some chance of hot air gathering above the gpu + there's not so much fresh air coming from below of the gpu while in vertical position open air card works whole lot better than all three other configurations (two horizontal and veritcal with blower).
Of course when you get you card to run up to thermal target temp then it's not fraction of degree anymore, and maybe that was an understatement but the core of the problem is that if you let the card exhaust air to the inside of the case without pushing it out with fans then you'll have your card recycle and heat it up.
I was of course talking about an open air card that has fans so there is airflow induced by those fans. And if this card gets fresh air from the outside all the time and has exhaust pointed straight out of the case vertically then there shouldn't be any problem with that.
We have different scenario though where in horizontal position there's some chance of hot air gathering above the gpu + there's not so much fresh air coming from below of the gpu while in vertical position open air card works whole lot better than all three other configurations (two horizontal and veritcal with blower).
Of course when you get you card to run up to thermal target temp then it's not fraction of degree anymore, and maybe that was an understatement but the core of the problem is that if you let the card exhaust air to the inside of the case without pushing it out with fans then you'll have your card recycle and heat it up.
Sure, if you make it yourself.
D
Deleted member 222586
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I was talking about the same scenario. Case with no fans, gpu card with fans. How could I talk about a gpu without fans? There aren't any unless you go sub 75W. I'm not talking about that.
You just try your case with a 290X (or 780 TI or 980 TI... or any high-powered card that is over 200W) open-air card. Play several hours. Then tell me how roasty everything is. You just have to test it. Nothing else.
CrazyManCan
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Any companies that can do this for you if you provide the measurements?
Asking to put over 200W or 250W TDP card in such small space like SENTRY... really prava?
If You have some more of such ideas about our pc case, please share with us in our topic, or visit our SENTRY website. You don't have to insult other people. We don't share Your frustration about... no one knows about what. Please keep calm.
p.s. This is a DanA4 topic. Please keep with the main subject.
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people are saying what they're saying because dan himself tested the different video card designs and found that the third party coolers perform better in A4-SFX. so yes these conclusions are from testing!
as the previous posters note, third party cooler designs work so well because they input air directly from the outside. NO OTHER CASE DOES THIS. in the old days we needed to build a duct.
I myself used to have the perception that a blower design would work better. I was wrong. the heat-exhaust benefit from using 1 blower fan outputting directly is not as large as the cool-input benefit from using 3 bigger fans. more fans win in A4-SFX.
dondan
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prava:
If you are standing far away from a campfire what happen? You will be cold. What happen if you move now next to the campfire? You will be warm. But in both situations the campfire has the same temperature and the airflow is the same.
So for a tiny case it is normal that the outside is warm because of the distance to the components. Keep in mind that the A4-SFX is made out of aluminum that have a better thermal absorption as for example plastic, so the outer surface will be faster warm.
Yes you are right, but I call it physic and not magic. It is called Stack effect. >> Stack effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are right a fan is more efficient as the stack effect, but because of the small size of the A4-SFX static pressure and the stack effect is enough.
You are right a radial/blower style GPU helps to reduce the temperature of the inside, because you move the air directly out so that the warm air can't get in contact with other components. For a open air style card you move the warm air from the GPU inside the case. While these air moving up with the principle of the stack effect it has more time having contact with other surfaces. But of the point of GPU temperature open air style cards are better because they have a bigger heat sink and more fans.
PS: I thought reference = Radial Style and custom = Blower Style. But I think I found my mistake. They call the reference blower style because the Gefore FX 5800 Ultra looks like a blower.
If you are standing far away from a campfire what happen? You will be cold. What happen if you move now next to the campfire? You will be warm. But in both situations the campfire has the same temperature and the airflow is the same.
So for a tiny case it is normal that the outside is warm because of the distance to the components. Keep in mind that the A4-SFX is made out of aluminum that have a better thermal absorption as for example plastic, so the outer surface will be faster warm.
Yes you are right, but I call it physic and not magic. It is called Stack effect. >> Stack effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are right a fan is more efficient as the stack effect, but because of the small size of the A4-SFX static pressure and the stack effect is enough.
You are right a radial/blower style GPU helps to reduce the temperature of the inside, because you move the air directly out so that the warm air can't get in contact with other components. For a open air style card you move the warm air from the GPU inside the case. While these air moving up with the principle of the stack effect it has more time having contact with other surfaces. But of the point of GPU temperature open air style cards are better because they have a bigger heat sink and more fans.
PS: I thought reference = Radial Style and custom = Blower Style. But I think I found my mistake. They call the reference blower style because the Gefore FX 5800 Ultra looks like a blower.
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QuantumBraced
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A great video by Linus! Just to play devil's advocate, I had a few concerns:
Again, a pretty odd motherboard choice for a show-off build. Yes, you gain quad-channel memory (largely irrelevant), but you lose audio, USB 3.1, M.2, Wi-Fi, and only have 2 USB 3.0 ports. I'm not sure a 1TB M.2 wouldn't offer a more tangible performance benefit over quad-channel RAM, tho both would be negligible effects. I hope all the server stuff, SODIMMs, custom cooler, etc. won't confuse some newbie builders and give them the wrong impression of the case.
His solution to the audio issue i.e. using a monitor's built-in audio via the graphics card's HDMI connection/using a USB headset, is not very good, considering this is supposed to be an ultra-amazing performance PC. Most monitors don't have audio, those that do have poor DACs, inferior to the onboard audio of the ASRock consumer X99 ITX board, and inferior to an external dedicated quality DAC (which any respectable audiophile should have). The same goes for headsets with built-in DACs. He should have used an external DAC in one of the USB 3.0 ports, and a USB hub in the other for peripherals.
The SSD was also an odd choice. I'm not sure Linus realizes there is an additional SSD spot behind the front panel. Samsung now makes 4TB SSDs. He could have put 2 of those in RAID for insane performance and capacity. Or even three if he'd chosen an SFX PSU. I'm really not sure why he went SFX-L. Yes, it's technically the highest wattage you can fit in the case, but extra wattage does not give you extra performance. 700W is a complete waste for a single GPU system. And despite having a smaller fan, I'm not sure the Corsair SF450/S600 wouldn't be quieter, as SilverStone stuff is is not really the best quality (I love SilverStone, but it's true).
Also, the A4-SFX is smaller than any shoebox I've seen.
But this is all clearly nitpicking, I just like thinking about this stuff. Overall, it was a great video, although I think it could have been longer, like last year's, and we could have given more of a review of the system. I can't wait for the case review, and I also hope he does another video with that EVGA 1080 build. You know it's Linus in that shot because of the sandals and socks.
Again, a pretty odd motherboard choice for a show-off build. Yes, you gain quad-channel memory (largely irrelevant), but you lose audio, USB 3.1, M.2, Wi-Fi, and only have 2 USB 3.0 ports. I'm not sure a 1TB M.2 wouldn't offer a more tangible performance benefit over quad-channel RAM, tho both would be negligible effects. I hope all the server stuff, SODIMMs, custom cooler, etc. won't confuse some newbie builders and give them the wrong impression of the case.
His solution to the audio issue i.e. using a monitor's built-in audio via the graphics card's HDMI connection/using a USB headset, is not very good, considering this is supposed to be an ultra-amazing performance PC. Most monitors don't have audio, those that do have poor DACs, inferior to the onboard audio of the ASRock consumer X99 ITX board, and inferior to an external dedicated quality DAC (which any respectable audiophile should have). The same goes for headsets with built-in DACs. He should have used an external DAC in one of the USB 3.0 ports, and a USB hub in the other for peripherals.
The SSD was also an odd choice. I'm not sure Linus realizes there is an additional SSD spot behind the front panel. Samsung now makes 4TB SSDs. He could have put 2 of those in RAID for insane performance and capacity. Or even three if he'd chosen an SFX PSU. I'm really not sure why he went SFX-L. Yes, it's technically the highest wattage you can fit in the case, but extra wattage does not give you extra performance. 700W is a complete waste for a single GPU system. And despite having a smaller fan, I'm not sure the Corsair SF450/S600 wouldn't be quieter, as SilverStone stuff is is not really the best quality (I love SilverStone, but it's true).
Also, the A4-SFX is smaller than any shoebox I've seen.
But this is all clearly nitpicking, I just like thinking about this stuff. Overall, it was a great video, although I think it could have been longer, like last year's, and we could have given more of a review of the system. I can't wait for the case review, and I also hope he does another video with that EVGA 1080 build. You know it's Linus in that shot because of the sandals and socks.
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CknSalad
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Linus video was not bad, but just lacked depth to me as others have mentioned it being more of an overview build. I think tek syndicate or hardware canucks may have been better for in-depth reviews. Linus does have the fanbase and viewership advantage, though I worry his viewership will still question the validity of such a small case without case fans.
There will be a separate video review of the Dan Case in the future.
CrazyManCan
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Is anyone else going to review the case?
I suggest you read the thread and read up on the basic laws of physics before making a fool of yourself.
D
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Those basics being...?
cowsgomoo2
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I thought we had that discussion a while back in this thread, prava. I told you that in the case of Dan A4, the GPU fans and the CPU fan act as both case fans and radiator fans due to the proximity to the vents of the case. You claimed that air is being recycled due to a few mm of gap between the fans and the vents of the case. The discussion stopped there. I'd like to say that the few mm difference is inconsequential according to my experience with ducting in the Ncase M1.
crisisv87akd
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A great video by Linus! Just to play devil's advocate, I had a few concerns:
But this is all clearly nitpicking, I just like thinking about this stuff. Overall, it was a great video, although I think it could have been longer, like last year's, and we could have given more of a review of the system. I can't wait for the case review, and I also hope he does another video with that EVGA 1080 build. You know it's Linus in that shot because of the sandals and socks.
There will be a second video as mentioned before. This video was just to show how much power you are capable to fit on such a small form factor, thanks to new technologies and Dan's case. That should be obvious since the processor alone costs around $4.000 and the RAM around $800, something that 99% of people would never spend to build a mini PC. About the SSD it could be for different reasons, he explained that the RAM and motherboards were supplied and he didn't buy them, perhaps he just doesn't have 2 Samsung SSD at the moment of the video, since each of them costs $1.500. Not saying he can't afford them, just saying that reasons can be many.
Overall the video was nice, I felt that Linus was hyped about the product, that made me feel good about buying Dan's case, if it can satisfy a guy who works with different premium PC products and still get hyped about it, it's a good sign. Something that was really important, and I think it wasn't mentioned, was noise levels on that configuration, as for the rest, it was a solid video considering there will be a second one with the review.
prava I think discussing is not a bad thing, despite other rude comments around. But some people won't be open minded to do so. You are doing good by questioning and reasoning. On the mean time the best to do is to keep Dondan words and his own experience, and once we receive the case, we can experiment and test all we want and share experiences, just ignore some of the comments on this thread.
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Fans are part of it: the fans on the graphics card, the CPU cooler and in the PSU.
What do you think happens to all that air being sucked into the case by those fans? Think the case blows up like a balloon until it bursts?
Dondan has, yes.
Have you?
No?
Please, don't let that stop you from being opinionated.
Have you even looked at the case?
Didn't you notice how the GPU, CPU and PSU fans are about a millimeter from well-ventilated side panels?
Now you may think they will refuse all that fresh air from outside and stubbornly recycle hot air through the millimeter gaps, but the concept isn't new, Shuttle has been building cases with ventilated side panels and GPUs next to them for over 15 years and it turns out they defy your expectations and draw air in from the outside.
Again totally missing the difference between the average ATX tower and a well-designed SFF enclosure.
You are aware that you are in the SMALL FORM FACTOR sub, right? Try to understand what SMALL FORM FACTOR means and why we are here.
Very simple: two or three 80-100mm fans will suck in more air than one 60-70mm fans.
Dondan has tested the case. You have not. Yet you are accusing him of not testing. Again, the audacity.
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