DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

I meant a pc case that is able to house all desktop parts. The most powerful 'NUC' form factor is Gigabyte's Brix 760 and that was a thermal throttling nightmare and not to mention, sounded like Flight Simulator X in gaming/heavy loads. Alienware Alpha and Asus GR8 are both small, but can't have the gpu replaced. All of the cases I mentioned use the external power brick solution. It is costly to have the daughterboard/external power brick (330w - highest at the moment) at least $100 more vs. a SFX/SFX-L psu solution.
 
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EDIT: never mind, I misread something. I thought you said "1L or less".
 
It's alright, I re-read my post and it is confusing if the whole paragraph isn't read carefully. A better way of wording it is: one would be hard-pressed to find a 5-6L pc case (1L or less than A4 SFX) with SFX & SFX-L psu support.
 
Hey dondan!

I'm really interested in this case for a long time, and i have a few idea/concern about it:
-additional space for 2,5 maybe 3,5 drive. There is only space if you have a shorter vga, or no vga. Using these kind of cut out holes on the back side of the motherboard plate (maybe a bit dangerous if the screws get close to the mb) and if you have a shorter vga, this can be done on back side of the psu shield, like you showed here, ofc that shield not made from plastic.

-usb3 cable arent a bit too thick for this small case? I really dont want a blue monstrosity in this case like this.

If that would be only an usb2, with a lot thinner cables (and lot better cable management) personally I wouldn't be mad.

(Maybe this is the reason that the asus gr8 has only usb2 in the front?)

(just checked your prototype again, that has usb3, but 2 usb port, all cables are the same? Won't 1 port be wasted with the current sfx desing?)

Keep up the good work!
 
CknSalad said:
It's alright, I re-read my post and it is confusing if the whole paragraph isn't read carefully. A better way of wording it is: one would be hard-pressed to find a 5-6L pc case (1L or less than A4 SFX) with SFX & SFX-L psu support.
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Yes I agree, 7 or 8L seems to be the sweet spot right now for a high-end SFF PC with regards to keeping everything internally and not demand very specific components. Except for lots of storage but that's debatable in my opinion.
 
I've just finished the first stage of designing a SFF case and it came to 8L. I've done a ton of layouts to arrive at this, and will probably bump it up a bit for even better airflow - has 5 120mm fans. I will integrate a fan controller to control the noise level and eventually do testing if it goes past the prototype stage.

However, if you build a case around somewhat specific components (itx form GPUs like MSI 760, gigabyte 970), i believe it is possible to get to 6L with SFX while maintaining good airflow etc. I'm going to see what I can come up with. A previous layout used a gigabyte low profile 750Ti and TFX psu but I didn't calculate volume on that.
 
barn said:
(...) -additional space for 2,5 maybe 3,5 drive. (...)
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I think it doesn't make any sense, when you are trying to make the smallest gaming case in the world and you try to stick a big 3,5 drive in it (more weight and more space).
 
yolostrats said:
I've just finished the first stage of designing a SFF case and it came to 8L. I've done a ton of layouts to arrive at this, and will probably bump it up a bit for even better airflow - has 5 120mm fans.
Click to expand...

A single fan can move 8 litres of air several times a second. Why did you need five fans? What issue were you solving?
 
I don't 'need' 5 fans. Nothing has gone beyond layout drawings and plans. I am not in the field of PC case design or whatever discipline that falls under (industrial design?) but I apply the methodology of exploring all ideas - good and bad. 5 full fans in a tiny case is overkill, I know that.

That particular design may have a problem with dead spots in corners. Or maybe all 5 are slim fans running at minimum, trying to take away heat from a 280x 250W GPU as fast as possible. Again, nothing has been tested and that is where actual answers list. Right now it's basically all about questions.

I'm not solving one specific issue, it's not that simple. I have no brief or client. Whereas necere and dondan were/are working towards more specific goals.

Edit: Quick numbers on a ITX 970 version comes to 5.61L. Not bad. Main card i'm designing for is the MSI 970 (fanless mode ftw). One aim is to keep it under 60C in light games while in this tiny case.
 
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Barbarian_PT said:
I think it doesn't make any sense, when you are trying to make the smallest gaming case in the world and you try to stick a big 3,5 drive in it (more weight and more space).
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Full quote:
-additional space for 2,5 maybe 3,5 drive. There is only space if you have a shorter vga, or no vga.
Click to expand...

Im helping by suggestion to cut a few, well placed, holes to squeze in a few extra hard drives, not everyone will use a high end, 3 fan vga. Can't think of any way this will make the case bigger. Its about using the space.

I didn't actually measure what where will fit because:
- I dont have the 3d model
- I'm lazy

Dondan will decide is it possible or not.
 
Hello :)

If i add these holes, you are talking about, on the motherboard tray, you can't use any gpu, because the Motherboardtray has the same length as the Motherboard itself. Because of this fact it isn't possible to add the drives behind the SFX psu. The shield behind the sfx psu is out of plastic and has only the function to protect the backside of the gpu from the metal case of the sfx psu. I have to made an optional drivebay for the place behind the psu. Maybe a feature for the second version ;).

A follower in an german forum ask me, if i can add holes on the motherboard tray for some drives to use this case as an NAS (using onboard or CPU GPU). This feature i will maybe add for the second version.

To the 3,5" HDD question: Sorry but i will never add mountingpoints for these drives. 3,5" is a dying formfactor and too big for SFF.

But in the actual sfx Version you are able to mount 2x2,5" HDDs/SSds and one MSATA or M.2 SATA drive on the Motherboard. You can reach up to 5TB in this case. (2x2TB HDD + 1x1TB SSD) If you need more and want the first version of the case you will need an external drive or an NAS.
 
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If you really need the extra space for 2.5" drives, and there is space available but no mounts, then double-sided tape is always an option for SSDs!
 
Dondan, have you created your website like Necere has for the NCase? Also, we will be able to purchase the 2nd version from that website?
 
Hi the website is under construction and will be available at the moment i start the crowdfounding campaign for the buyable first version. The second version will be buyable after the the first some month later on my site.
 
The M600 or a revamped version of the Neutronium v4 at around 4L is the smallest you can get, but that is not without sacrifices and very close, tight fits as well as limitations on desktop parts that can be used.

That being said, I wonder what cases Necere/wahaha, SaperPL, and Dondan can come up with if they teamed up together. :D
 
We could build a 0,5L Case with, i7, 16gb, Gtx 980 SLI support and all this passiv ^^.
 
heey dondan,
don't know if this has been asked before but
will the 1st run have number plates as the ncase?
loved that touch on the m1
 
There does not seem to be any room for a tag plate like the Ncase M1. That being said, I don't really mind not having one as I already know myself that not many people will own this case around the whole world. That in itself and the fact it's the smallest desktop gaming pc case to date already makes it special.
 
hmm maybe not on the outside but perhaps on the inside maybe on the back of the motherboard tray / above the graphics card (enthoo style?)
don't know how much extra that would cost but hey, no problem, getting this case would be great already.
 
Would cost more money but it could be lasered on a panel, or etched on by a manual process (as in by hand). It's number, might as well be hand numbered.

I'm not familiar with etching but it can be done with chemicals and stencils.



Dondan: I'm reserving judgement until I see good testing on a final or close to final prototype. I'd like to see temps on the CPU and GPU while doing a few different tests including medium gaming, heavy gaming and a few benchmarks but most importantly is real world gaming temps.

But not just temps, noise as well. It's easy enough to crank up fans more to make up for insufficient airflow or cooling (e.g. gigabyte 760 brix aka jet engine in a box). I'm not saying this is the situation (again, reserving judgement). I remember you did testing and it went alright, can't remember when but obviously it's at least adequate. I don't think I saw anything about measured noise or similar testing.

E.g. measured noise at various fan speeds/voltages vs temps while full load gaming.
 
As the last poster suggested, I would also like seeing pictures of non-ref gpu as well as possibly an SFX-L psu installed with a 2.5 inch ssd installed on the bottom. It would be nice to see noise/temp testing in non-ref gpu/ref gpu with sfx/sfx-l configs, kind of what Necere did with the Ncase M1 prototype.

I would suggest just overclocking an i5/i7 to 4.0GHz just to see how well the Noctua NHL-9i copes (most people will probably go with this cooler) under gaming/heavier loads. I think panels on/off temp testing you did would be nice to do for the final prototype design.
 
If i have the prototyp there will be an review of my case on an german computerside. They will test noise, temps s.o. So you will get values of independent third parties :) But of course i will do temperature, fitting and noise test with different hardwarecomponents by my own.
Iam a fan of silent systems, so it will definitely much silent as the 760 Brix ;)
 
Thanks for the quick reply Dondan. I like the fact that a third party will review the case. The test results should be fairly good in my opinion looking at the design of the case. In theory, temperatures should be quite good due to quick access to fresh air for the gpu, psu, and cpu cooler. I think those worried about noise should probably use the sfx-l psu and get a quiet non-ref gpu (asus or msi).

Also, I shudder when I hear the Gigabyte Brix 760, as that thing is so flawed in its technical design.
 
The cpu cooler is the possible weak point, as I see it, when it comes to temperature and noise. I'm not convinced about the Noctua NH-L9; some reviewers say it's great (but only considering its extremely small size), some say it's really bad (worse than Intel's stock crap)...

But I read somewhere that Noctua has a new version of the NH-L9 on the way (maybe it'll have another model name), with a thicker heatsink. As far as I recall, the current model is 37mm (with fan) and this case has room for slightly more than that. So hopefully the new version will still fit in this case.
 
This isn't a normal case, It's a compact high-end case. There are bigger cases with good OC specs (big tower cooler, WC, etc...)

This isn't the perfect all terrain product, but the most compact high end gaming product in the market. If we are allways trying to add features, the case will become bigger and bigger.

The OC you might achieve in this case is so irrelevant, that shouldn't be a concern. The cooler will be almost outside the case, so it's highly probable you will ear it.
 
backfeed said:
The cpu cooler is the possible weak point, as I see it, when it comes to temperature and noise. I'm not convinced about the Noctua NH-L9; some reviewers say it's great (but only considering its extremely small size), some say it's really bad (worse than Intel's stock crap)...

But I read somewhere that Noctua has a new version of the NH-L9 on the way (maybe it'll have another model name), with a thicker heatsink. As far as I recall, the current model is 37mm (with fan) and this case has room for slightly more than that. So hopefully the new version will still fit in this case.
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Most games are still GPU-dependent, so FPS improvement from overclocking is negligible. NH-L9 should be able to handle any CPU at stock.
 
I know. I'm just not convinced that the NH-L9 is all that good, and there is already enough space in this case for a larger cooler, so hopefully something better (noise/efficiency) will come to the market sooner or later. I'd like to see a minimized Scythe Shuriken-like cooler with a larger slower-spinning fan. :)

Oh, and I'm not considering overclocking. I'm not convinced that it's good enough (for me) even for stock clocks, is what I mean. Take note that I hate noise, and am in a minority. :D
 
dondan,

Iam very interested in your design, and will be one of first supporters to crow founding campaign.

Currently, as a proud owner of Ncase M1, can you provide us with some renders between the two cases, to allows to visualize the spacial differences? If by any manner you fill not being "ethical" to wahaha360 and Necere, could just pick up their idea to add a coca-cola can.

Regards,
 
Reviews for Noctua NHL-9i:

Overclockers Club

Tweaktown

Thorough YouTube User Review

The cooler should be just fine for 4.0GHz since you pretty much should be able to stay at stock volts. If not, worst case you can just undervolt a little bit to get cooler temps at stock clocks. Are there any good alternatives to the noctua nhl-9i that are under 50mm in height? I saw the Silverstone AR06, but that's 58mm in height and is on average just 2C better than the nhl-9i as well as being harder to install. I think cooling is just limited under 50mm in general, but this case is made for having a nice, small, quiet pc machine.
 
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Yeah, from what I've found the NH-L9i is your best choice. For i5/i7 users this isn't really an super overclocking case, but I don't think that really matters.
 
All I really care about is the GPU temps and the noise generated overall in the case in a high end system configuration (GTX 970/980 with i5/i7 cpu) under 2-3 hour gaming session loads. I'm definitely getting this case if it does quite admirably on these merits.
 
backfeed said:
I know. I'm just not convinced that the NH-L9 is all that good, and there is already enough space in this case for a larger cooler, so hopefully something better (noise/efficiency) will come to the market sooner or later. I'd like to see a minimized Scythe Shuriken-like cooler with a larger slower-spinning fan. :)

Oh, and I'm not considering overclocking. I'm not convinced that it's good enough (for me) even for stock clocks, is what I mean. Take note that I hate noise, and am in a minority. :D
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Replace fan with a 25mm thick one and turn down the RPM.
 
cowsgomoo said:
Replace fan with a 25mm thick one and turn down the RPM.
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SPCR tried that (with Noctuas own 92x25), but unfortunately it made very little if any difference.

There's also the Alpenföhn Silvretta, at 45mm height including the fan, but I have no idea if it's any good.
 
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