Cyberpunk 2077

That's definitely me. If they take too long, I'll forget the plot, control scheme, and my motivation for doing anything in the first place. The two large Witcher 3 DLC packs are the only ones that motivated me to return to an older game...well, those and Dark Souls, which is 1/2 muscle-memory at this point.

Exactly why I don't like long release times. I'm hoping the DLCs manage to stand on their own fairly well with a largely self contained story.
 
This is what I've been doing. I've got a lot of time in the game and I've enjoyed it thoroughly. But, the game is pretty much in an alpha state. The UI has errors, its inaccurate, or flat doesn't update. A ton of mods don't work at all or glitch (sometimes in your favor), weapon balance seems like its in an early state. Much of the cyberware doesn't work at all. Namely, anything that requires a manual activation won't work if you have arm cyberware like the Mantis Blades or Projectile Launcher installed. The list of issues goes on and on. To CDPR's credit, the quests are surprisingly complete but I suspect the ones that weren't finished just aren't in the game or have been totally disabled. I think this is one of the reasons why CDPR didn't want to quote completion times as they may not have known how many quests would be in the game on launch day.

I can go on and on about what's wrong with the game. To be honest its in an unacceptable state. That being said, the game is still really a lot of fun and it could end up being a classic that could eclipse the Witcher III if CDPR ever finishes the damn thing.

maybe it's me but I don't see how the game can be 'thoroughly enjoyable' when you admit it's in an alpha state and list a myriad of serious issues...is being able to complete quests and finish the game the barometer?...doesn't the overall experience and immersion matter?...or are you looking at the potential versus the current state of the game?
 
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My take (ymmv), it's still good. Plenty to improve for sure but I have never seen half of the serious bugs making the rounds. I've had to reload to fix a broken mission a couple of times and have seen the T pose on a motorcycle a few times, but nothing really immersion breaking. And not a single T since the last hotfix (no idea if that's luck). I'm in the 'thoroughly enjoyable' category, but totally understand if someone is annoyed by seeing a ton of bugs.
 
maybe it's me but I don't see how the game can be 'thoroughly enjoyable' and then you admit it's in an alpha state and list a myriad of serious issues...is being able to complete quests and finish the game the barometer?...doesn't the overall experience and immersion matter?...or are you looking at the potential versus the current state of the game?

Something being true doesn't require your understanding for it to be true. I really enjoyed the game. I have a lot of hours in it. I've played through it about two and a half times now. Admittedly, that's the end of its replayability as the story doesn't branch enough and the life paths are almost completely irrelevant. That being said.........

The game has a solid foundation in its world design, vehicles, weapons, etc. The basic gameplay mechanics are solid but its clear that what we are seeing is in an early stage of development. Finalized in design, but not balanced or tuned. It was more or less spreadsheet tuned. The values for weapons were input, but it feels like a first or second draft at best. The game's setting is quite immersive in spite of its issues. I had a tremendous amount of fun as the game's basic systems are all there for the most part. Police not withstanding. The story is there (albeit, being way too linear and lacking branching options), but most importantly, the quests all seem to work. There were one or two side quests that could get bugged and wouldn't allow completion, but CDPR fixed this pretty quickly. This is what allows you to experience the game as it gives you a purpose to move through the game world and to do things.

The quests being functional matters a lot. There is nothing worse than broken quests and being incapable of completing them and moving the story forward. I quit playing Dead Island within a week or two of it coming out for that very reason. I was so pissed about that game's bugs and issues that I stopped playing it and never looked back. That game was beyond broken and fixes to it made the game incompatible with your save games etc. So, I'd have had to go back 20+ hours to get back where I was and hope that all the broken quests were fixed. That's the most frustrating thing I think I've ever experienced in a game. I don't know if its anyone else's barometer but it is certainly one for me.

I do see the potential and perhaps that has a lot to do with it, but the problems I've experienced are mostly visual. NPC's in T-poses floating around nude. Adjusting my camera angle often fixed that. I've also seen V's head floating above the car for no reason. It was mostly issues like that I experienced. I recognize the deeper balance issues and broken cyberware etc., but still enjoyed it anyway. BTW, the E3 demo for Doom 3 was an unoptimized piece of shit, but I enjoyed that too. There wasn't more than an hour of gameplay there (if that) and I replayed it dozens of times because it was fun. As long as the game is good at its core, I can look past a lot of shit. I understand game development more than most so I'm probably a bit more tolerant of these issues than many people would be. However, I also have some faith in CDPR that they'll fix this game over time and make it more like the game that it was always meant to be.

Now, having said all of that. While the game has been one of the best I've played in years, it is not without its faults. It's biggest fault lies in its story and its lack of branching storylines. It loses its replay value by being that way and I could write a very long article on that alone.
 
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My take (ymmv), it's still good. Plenty to improve for sure but I have never seen half of the serious bugs making the rounds. I've had to reload to fix a broken mission a couple of times and have seen the T pose on a motorcycle a few times, but nothing really immersion breaking. And not a single T since the last hotfix (no idea if that's luck). I'm in the 'thoroughly enjoyable' category, but totally understand if someone is annoyed by seeing a ton of bugs.

I have continued to see the visual issues from NPC's and from V in vehicles since the 1.11 hotfix. It made no difference what so ever in my experience.
 
I have around 110 hrs in so far and only a few bugs outside of visuals. For the most part everything has been working as intended and I really have enjoyed the game.
 
I enjoyed it. Yes, it's a little buggy but that didn't stop me from playing. Just save often in case anything happens. Otherwise it's an amazing game and should not be missed.
 
I'd agree that there's basically zero emotional attachment to anything in the game. Even characters you're supposed to feel for (Panam, River, Judy, Rogue, etc.) never conjured up anything for me. In the best written games (and movies), there are moments that I remember like they involved real people. Cyberpunk never really did anything like that. I bet in 3-4 years I won't remember anything about it except the hundreds of little shootouts all over the map. The writing wasn't bar or anything, they just missed the mark with emotional connections.
 
I'd agree that there's basically zero emotional attachment to anything in the game. Even characters you're supposed to feel for (Panam, River, Judy, Rogue, etc.) never conjured up anything for me. In the best written games (and movies), there are moments that I remember like they involved real people. Cyberpunk never really did anything like that. I bet in 3-4 years I won't remember anything about it except the hundreds of little shootouts all over the map. The writing wasn't bar or anything, they just missed the mark with emotional connections.

I'm about 20hrs in to Horizon Zero Dawn, started as a way to hold out for CP to be patched.
Its superbly written, you feel like you are playing the character, and graphics are top notch.
Worth checking.
 
I'd agree that there's basically zero emotional attachment to anything in the game. Even characters you're supposed to feel for (Panam, River, Judy, Rogue, etc.) never conjured up anything for me. In the best written games (and movies), there are moments that I remember like they involved real people. Cyberpunk never really did anything like that. I bet in 3-4 years I won't remember anything about it except the hundreds of little shootouts all over the map. The writing wasn't bar or anything, they just missed the mark with emotional connections.

Now that you guys mention it, I agree. I didn’t really connect with any characters in this game. I enjoyed the story but in a pretty superficial way.

I'm about 20hrs in to Horizon Zero Dawn, started as a way to hold out for CP to be patched.
Its superbly written, you feel like you are playing the character, and graphics are top notch.
Worth checking.

Fantastic game and one you can definitely form a connection with, at least as much as a video game can for me.
 
Yeah, I really wish you could hang with your choom more...

(edit to spell more better)
 
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I'd agree that there's basically zero emotional attachment to anything in the game. Even characters you're supposed to feel for (Panam, River, Judy, Rogue, etc.) never conjured up anything for me. In the best written games (and movies), there are moments that I remember like they involved real people. Cyberpunk never really did anything like that. I bet in 3-4 years I won't remember anything about it except the hundreds of little shootouts all over the map. The writing wasn't bar or anything, they just missed the mark with emotional connections.

Exactly. This is one of the worst story based games I've played when it comes to tying player (or mine at least) emotion to the setting/story/characters. Even if I watch a scene in a game I haven't played in a long time on youtube, I feel more than I do when I was playing Cyberpunk. Mass Effect, MGS V (Ground Zeroes intro, or ending cutscene of Phantom Pain), you name it.

I wouldn't say the story was bad, but it wasn't good in Cyberpunk. But I simply can't explain the extreme detached feel of it for me.
 
Some of the characters were okay. I thought the "main" people (Panam, Claire, Judy, etc.) had some decent stories. Jackie had barely any impact because of how fast he was gone. If he went out closer to the end of the story it might have had more of an emotional impact, but frankly you just don't have enough time to connect. I wanna play all of the stuff in that montage cutscene where you're out fighting people and doing crimes.
 
I watched the "secret ending" on YouTube today and I'm kind of pissed that wasn't a standard option or at the very least easier to achieve. I really want to try my build in that solo chaos. Shame.
 
Some of the characters were okay. I thought the "main" people (Panam, Claire, Judy, etc.) had some decent stories. Jackie had barely any impact because of how fast he was gone. If he went out closer to the end of the story it might have had more of an emotional impact, but frankly you just don't have enough time to connect. I wanna play all of the stuff in that montage cutscene where you're out fighting people and doing crimes.
Exactly if they allowed you to experience the events in the montage perhaps I'd have cared about Jack. But my main issue with the story is the lack of satisfying closure or reason to replay. All the endings are just variations on a theme.

Also one of the writers tweeted that they like to "frustrate players with ambiguity", well ain't that a great attitude to have as a writer?
 
I watched the "secret ending" on YouTube today and I'm kind of pissed that wasn't a standard option or at the very least easier to achieve. I really want to try my build in that solo chaos. Shame.
The thing it is tied to is completely arbitrary. Why do you need johnny silvertongue's permission to raid arasaka alone?
 
Also one of the writers tweeted that they like to "frustrate players with ambiguity", well ain't that a great attitude to have as a writer?

Suppose it can work if they did it right. Clearly their execution wasn't that good. Story was enough to hold up the game. Just wasn't great.

I'm hoping the DLC stories are largely standalone and can build up some emotion/attachment and player investment on their own.
 
Ori creator calls Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky developers 'snake oil salesmen'

Moon Studios CEO and Ori game director Thomas Malher, accused them of "lies and deception", selling features that don't exist and, by overhyping their games, making fools of players...he also criticised journalists and gaming "celebrities" (including Geoff Keighley from TGA) for "happily playing along, each and every single time."...

https://screenrant.com/cyberpunk-2077-no-mans-sky-devs-lies-called-out-by-ori-developer/
 
Ori creator calls Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky developers 'snake oil salesmen'

Moon Studios CEO and Ori game director Thomas Malher, accused them of "lies and deception", selling features that don't exist and, by overhyping their games, making fools of players...he also criticised journalists and gaming "celebrities" (including Geoff Keighley from TGA) for "happily playing along, each and every single time."...

https://screenrant.com/cyberpunk-2077-no-mans-sky-devs-lies-called-out-by-ori-developer/
Someone has a bad case of sour grapes. Their failure is better than his biggest success, that must sting. this is like when the creator of ethan carter trash talked gamers for choosing Alien Isolation over his game where every door was openable.

I can't speak for No man's sky not my cup of tea, but CP2077 was easily one of the best games of 2020. Case in point, I've already played 120 hours, and still having fun with it. Yet some dev fueled by jealousy is telling me that I should hate it. And join the angry mob demanding blood. Sorry bud, I still won't deny my own experience.
 
He's not exactly wrong, though. They did hype up features that were not in the game, and the game is demonstrably buggy as shit.

I agree it's overall a decent game and I did enjoy it, but it's nothing like what it was sold as being.
 
Someone has a bad case of sour grapes. Their failure is better than his biggest success, that must sting. this is like when the creator of ethan carter trash talked gamers for choosing Alien Isolation over his game where every door was openable.

I can't speak for No man's sky not my cup of tea, but CP2077 was easily one of the best games of 2020. Case in point, I've already played 120 hours, and still having fun with it. Yet some dev fueled by jealousy is telling me that I should hate it. And join the angry mob demanding blood. Sorry bud, I still won't deny my own experience.

the article is talking directly to people like you...it's what I've been saying all along...just because you like the game and it has less bugs on PC doesn't make the bugs and other issues irrelevant...the article said it best...

"Yeah, the backlash is coming, but usually you see a ton of people then arguing that they like the game that came out of it anyway. That is so not the point. It doesn't matter if the snake oil actually tastes fine. Don't sell me on features that don't exist. Don't paint a picture that you'll not be able to deliver. Just don't f--king lie to me. You're f--king over gamers, you're f--king over journalists (that should know better, so shame on you!) and you're f--king over other developers."

There were a lot of excuses made for Cyberpunk 2077 and No Man's Sky, largely by people who downplayed the issues for consoles because they were on PC. Yet when EA or Activision releases a broken game, they're crucified by fans and held up as the worst companies in the world"
 
I actually had no idea about the promises, since I didn't watch any of the production videos or articles. I wanted to go in with a fresh mind and just enjoy the game for what it was.

Definitely can understand if people had been seeing all the stuff for years maybe they would feel betrayed. But you have to judge the game on it's merits as it was released. And, aside from the bugs, it's actually an amazing game.
 
I actually had no idea about the promises, since I didn't watch any of the production videos or articles. I wanted to go in with a fresh mind and just enjoy the game for what it was.

Definitely can understand if people had been seeing all the stuff for years maybe they would feel betrayed. But you have to judge the game on it's merits as it was released. And, aside from the bugs, it's actually an amazing game.

I did see all of that stuff. I bought the game and put almost 400 hours in it so far. I thought it was fantastic, but at the same time I acknowledged that the game wasn't what was promised and it really needs to be fixed. I also have to acknowledge the fact that people accepting games in this near alpha state sets a bad precedent. It tells companies like CDPR that its OK to lie to us and cheat us so long as they make it up to us later. You know who says stuff like that? Hookers who get beat up by their pimps and abused wives.

I'm fully aware that the game being enjoyable is besides the point. The fact that I enjoyed the game so much certainly softened the blow of it not living up to expectations. It's not just the fact that the game is buggy or unpolished. It's the fact that features that were advertised for years aren't there. Some of this we expected because CDPR was honest about it but the vast majority of things they touted weren't in the game and can't be added to it in short order. The game is at least a year or more behind where it should be based on that advertising.
 
Yeah, I can see that. But the game is still amazing. I'm at like 175 hours, I never put anywhere near that number in any other game.
 
"Yeah, the backlash is coming, but usually you see a ton of people then arguing that they like the game that came out of it anyway. That is so not the point. It doesn't matter if the snake oil actually tastes fine. Don't sell me on features that don't exist. Don't paint a picture that you'll not be able to deliver. Just don't f--king lie to me. You're f--king over gamers, you're f--king over journalists (that should know better, so shame on you!) and you're f--king over other developers."

The irony is I was never sold on all the bells and whistles that didn't make it fully into the game anyway, or even much of what I saw from promotional material (since I wasn't fond of what I saw in terms of tone for the most part). I was only in it since it was developed by the same company as TW3 and it had a cyberpunk setting---that to me was the selling point, since it was so hard to tell otherwise what the game was actually about even leading up to release.

So seeing something like wall-riding being cut made no difference to me tbh. It ended up having more of the tone I was after which wasn't reflected at all in their marketing, though not enough as I would have liked. Still an excellent, if shorter game.

I'm not sure how many really cared enough about such changes that it affected their order or enjoyment, either, though I recognize that some also projected their own desires for a cyberpunk game onto the game in a major way.
 
If anyone's bothered by head bob Nexus has a mod that removes it completely when still or moving when not using a weapon even when crouched. The mod's main feature is removing camera shake that can persist when using some weapons even when additive camera motion option is set to off in settings. Can post the link if it matters to the forum. Edit: But it can be searched ok on Nexus or Google.
 
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If anyone's bothered by head bob Nexus has a mod that removes it completely when still or moving when not using a weapon even when crouched. The mod's main feature is removing camera shake that can persist when using some weapons even when additive camera motion option is set to off in settings. Can post the link if it matters to the forum. But can be searched ok on Nexus or Google.
Tried searching for 'bob' and 'headbob' without success using Nexus' search. Mind linking it here?
 
I did see all of that stuff. I bought the game and put almost 400 hours in it so far. I thought it was fantastic, but at the same time I acknowledged that the game wasn't what was promised and it really needs to be fixed. I also have to acknowledge the fact that people accepting games in this near alpha state sets a bad precedent. It tells companies like CDPR that its OK to lie to us and cheat us so long as they make it up to us later. You know who says stuff like that? Hookers who get beat up by their pimps and abused wives.

I'm fully aware that the game being enjoyable is besides the point. The fact that I enjoyed the game so much certainly softened the blow of it not living up to expectations. It's not just the fact that the game is buggy or unpolished. It's the fact that features that were advertised for years aren't there. Some of this we expected because CDPR was honest about it but the vast majority of things they touted weren't in the game and can't be added to it in short order. The game is at least a year or more behind where it should be based on that advertising.

Pretty much. Anyone who is comparing relative sales to different games is missing the entire point. You can enjoy a game but also realize it had borderline deceptive marketing and a poor release state.
 
I actually had no idea about the promises, since I didn't watch any of the production videos or articles. I wanted to go in with a fresh mind and just enjoy the game for what it was.

Definitely can understand if people had been seeing all the stuff for years maybe they would feel betrayed. But you have to judge the game on it's merits as it was released. And, aside from the bugs, it's actually an amazing game.
In the same boat. I didn't follow any of the hype over the past years, apart from simply knowing a Cyberpunk game was coming, seeing some of the art and screenshots, and that it had kept getting delayed. I've got better things to do with my time, TBH, and I've actively avoid publisher and "game-friendly" media and forums since the absurd hype and embellishments that Bethesda put out for Oblivion. The only preconception I had was it was to be based on the P&P game I played as a kid.

So I'm judging the game for what it is, not for what promises may have been made -- and it's a pretty good game. It's far better than a lot of AAA games that are substandard or rehashes of stuff we've seen for 10 years.
 
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the article is talking directly to people like you...it's what I've been saying all along...just because you like the game and it has less bugs on PC doesn't make the bugs and other issues irrelevant...the article said it best...

"Yeah, the backlash is coming, but usually you see a ton of people then arguing that they like the game that came out of it anyway. That is so not the point. It doesn't matter if the snake oil actually tastes fine. Don't sell me on features that don't exist. Don't paint a picture that you'll not be able to deliver. Just don't f--king lie to me. You're f--king over gamers, you're f--king over journalists (that should know better, so shame on you!) and you're f--king over other developers."

There were a lot of excuses made for Cyberpunk 2077 and No Man's Sky, largely by people who downplayed the issues for consoles because they were on PC. Yet when EA or Activision releases a broken game, they're crucified by fans and held up as the worst companies in the world"
I've read it, and say go to hell to him, don't tell me what to think and how to behave. Whatever gamers got out of Mass Effect Andromeda being crucified? That those who actually liked the game didn't get any additional content, and the whole storyline is abandoned for good. Thanks, that's so great. Did it change how games get released? No. it didn't make any difference apart from ruining it for the rest of us.

I wish too that Cyberpunk 2077 was the best game ever, but it's not. That doesn't mean it's the worst ever.
 
I actually had no idea about the promises, since I didn't watch any of the production videos or articles. I wanted to go in with a fresh mind and just enjoy the game for what it was.
I like to experience and find out about every intricacy of games first hand, to me every tiny bit of information is a spoiler, not just story elements.
Anything I learn about the game takes away from the experience.

It's very easy to set yourself up for a disappointment if you follow the hype train. I never did that. I've seen the official trailers, but not much else. And I don't feel like I was lied to by those.

Was I not disappointed by Cyberpunk? Yes I was, but not in the ways everyone else seems to be. The expectations I see people talk about are often fantasmic outlandish and unrealistic.
It seems to me, as I've read a few articles they reference where they got their ideas from that many of the things are based on mistranslated or misunderstood german and polish interviews with the devs, not actual marketing material.
 
So vague the description is basically meaningless. If I had an engineer list that in a user-facing set of release points, I'd hold his face in it and yell "No! Bad!" I get there was some mem corruption vulnerability which is why they're not explicit, but they can at least summarize why files were removed/replaced.
or why.
Like seriously, why are they using this language? This is meaningless. What is a non-ASLR DLL and why do I need to care as a gamer? I just want to know what issue was fixed or improved or changed, not the nitty gritty technical details like this is github
 
So vague the description is basically meaningless. If I had an engineer list that in a user-facing set of release points, I'd hold his face in it and yell "No! Bad!" I get there was some mem corruption vulnerability which is why they're not explicit, but they can at least summarize why files were removed/replaced.

it fixed a vulnerability that allowed crafted save files to take advantage of a buffer overflow, which redirected the running thread to an old DLL from 2010, at a fixed address which lacked modern protections...the vulnerability meant that save files, which are normally considered a bit safer to download, could essentially be turned into executables that could carry out "any locally executed virus" on a user's PC - without the user noticing...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ods-and-custom-saves-after-exploit-discovered
 
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