Cyberpunk 2077

Battlefield 4?

does that site that gave you that stat track upgrade surges for other games? Because...

Battlefield 4???

Probably meant BF3. But BF4 sold very well to though. But BF3 absolutely pushed upgrades. It was fairly demanding when it came out but pushed graphics ahead.
 
Ehh you can say the same for almost every other big budget rpg out there. Choice is mostly an illusion. The time/resources needed at a tripleA level to craft multiple paths for the player to take is astronomical.
This game is about on par with 'player choice' as every other high profile big budget rpg out there. It's the mid tier and indie budget games which tend to offer more branches, but the trade off is the production quality of the game is usually much lower.
Plus, at an aaa level, I can see an exec saying "why dedicate tons of resources to game areas many will never see if we allow for major path divergence?".
 
Battlefield 4?

does that site that gave you that stat track upgrade surges for other games? Because...

Battlefield 4???

Probably meant BF3. But BF4 sold very well to though. But BF3 absolutely pushed upgrades. It was fairly demanding when it came out but pushed graphics ahead.

No, I mean BF4. A lot of people upgraded for both games but I remember Newegg discussing the immense amount of hardware sales, not just on their site, in the weeks leading up and after the release of BF4.

The game was a lot harder on hardware at the time than you remember. It wasn't until Pascal's release two and a half years later that 4k 60fps with a single card was feasible.
 
Somehow the UI being ugly as shit with a PAYPAL :D button and it being hosted on MediaFire makes me not want to download it

Bonus WTF points for the dev talking about how it triggers the Apex Legends anti cheat (???) because it edits files. Like what in the fuck.
 
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Alright gentlemen, I was wrong. Historically Console sales are higher than PC, so I assumed.

Not sure this makes the money they spent any less valid. Unless we're saying that being a minority makes you deserving of less. I bought on PC because I wanted the best experience, but I have cousins & nephews that bought for PS4 because that is what they had. How does being the minority make them any less deserving of the experience CDPR's own marketing said they would have? Just seems like a pointless argument to me.
That, and saying that 41% is a "minority" as if it should be disregarded is super disingenuous.
 
Console players were offered a refund, if they dont like it they can go somewhere else and stop complaining that a new game doesn't look and play as well on their 8 year old hardware as it does on gaming PC's.
 
Alright gentlemen, I was wrong. Historically Console sales are higher than PC, so I assumed.

Not sure this makes the money they spent any less valid. Unless we're saying that being a minority makes you deserving of less. I bought on PC because I wanted the best experience, but I have cousins & nephews that bought for PS4 because that is what they had. How does being the minority make them any less deserving of the experience CDPR's own marketing said they would have? Just seems like a pointless argument to me.
Nobody said their money was less valid. Mr strawman should leave the conversation.
As for deserving less of an experience? Of course. Why would you expect the same experience on a non-pro ps4 as on a PC ?
I haven't been following cdpr marketing religiously so I don't know what is it exactly that they said, that is so triggering.

The game has bugs, period, whining that poor console peasants have it worse is pointless. Until now with every console port PC players had it worse, just think about the state HZD came out for PC just recently. For once the cookie bites back, and they are threatening class action? This is pathetic imo.
 
Nobody said their money was less valid. Mr strawman should leave the conversation.
As for deserving less of an experience? Of course. Why would you expect the same experience on a non-pro ps4 as on a PC ?
I haven't been following cdpr marketing religiously so I don't know what is it exactly that they said, that is so triggering.

The game has bugs, period, whining that poor console peasants have it worse is pointless. Until now with every console port PC players had it worse, just think about the state HZD came out for PC just recently. For once the cookie bites back, and they are threatening class action? This is pathetic imo.

If you read my original statement, I said:

Absolutely. CDPR has traditionally been a PC centric Developer, but they chose to release not only on Console, but on current and prior gen Consoles. Statistically, this is the bulk of their customer base. Those customers paid the same price as us, and they deserve a playable experience relative to their console specs. This isn't a "vocal minority", there are far more of them, then there are of us. They have the option to get a refund, or to upgrade when they eventually get a newer Console, but right now their games are largely unplayable. That isn't right.

We're not talking about bugs or the PS4 looking as good as PC, we're talking about a PLAYABLE game. We all have bugs, hell the last 2 major quests I played had no Voice Over audio. That is not what I mean. CDPR never should have promised for last gen, but they did, and they charged full retail. But the game is barely playable with so many game halting bugs many cannot even finish the story. If you paid full price for a game, even accepting it was going to be a lesser experience than others paying the same amount because of your dated hardware, I'm betting you would still be expecting to play through with minimal issues, and finish all its missions.

CDPR promised to deliver a playable experience on last gen, going so far as to say it was "better than expected". That is all those customers (for the most part) are asking for.
 
If you read my original statement, I said:



We're not talking about bugs or the PS4 looking as good as PC, we're talking about a PLAYABLE game. We all have bugs, hell the last 2 major quests I played had no Voice Over audio. That is not what I mean. CDPR never should have promised for last gen, but they did, and they charged full retail. But the game is barely playable with so many game halting bugs many cannot even finish the story. If you paid full price for a game, even accepting it was going to be a lesser experience than others paying the same amount because of your dated hardware, I'm betting you would still be expecting to play through with minimal issues, and finish all its missions.

CDPR promised to deliver a playable experience on last gen, going so far as to say it was "better than expected". That is all those customers (for the most part) are asking for.
I don't know what do you expect? What more can be done apart from refunds? Nobody denies that releasing the game on last gen was a mistake, I've said so myself multiple times. But some seem to demand the demise of CDPR, which is a terrible idea. There are barely any developers left focusing on good single player experiences. And they make one misstep and the punishment is death?

I don't think the numbers make the crime worse. If there were only 10.000 console players that wouldn't make it better, and if they were the majority that wouldn't make it worse.

Was it a conscious decision to mislead people? I can't say. It's hard to prove. But I wouldn't kill the golden goose. Just let them clean the shit off of it it'll still be a golden egg.
 
I don't know what do you expect? What more can be done apart from refunds? Nobody denies that releasing the game on last gen was a mistake, I've said so myself multiple times. But some seem to demand the demise of CDPR, which is a terrible idea. There are barely any developers left focusing on good single player experiences. And they make one misstep and the punishment is death?

I don't think the numbers make the crime worse. If there were only 10.000 console players that wouldn't make it better, and if they were the majority that wouldn't make it worse.

Was it a conscious decision to mislead people? I can't say. It's hard to prove. But I wouldn't kill the golden goose. Just let them clean the shit off of it it'll still be a golden egg.

We're in agreement there. Trying to tear down CDPR would be a loss to gamers and the gaming industry as a whole. The media frenzy is just that. We don't stop at reporting the news anymore (or even do so accurately), we have to get everyone so crazed they are making death threats and comparing people to Hitler. It is ridiculous and does more damage in the end than good. I'm certainly not trying to damage CDPR, which I also covered in my previously mentioned post. I still believe they will do their best to make this right. They offered a refund before they even verified it with the Distributers & they are pumping out patches as fast as they can. Even before all this they confirmed player's games would transfer to next gen consoles for free, so it is not like their purchase is worthless even if it doesn't work now. The Devs especially are not to blame, but the Studio heads are another story. They lied in their marketing; deliberately embargoed Reviewers from pre-release console footage and hands on; kept adding & promising features to the game that the Devs then had to incorporate, extending its development time; worked their people to death even for an Industry known for crunch and have been called "out of touch" by their own employees. They need to be held accountable for this, but that is not to say destroyed. These are people who have historically been very prosumer and gamer centric. They had to find a way to cover the costs of 7 years of development and likely just got carried away. The point is, we cannot devalue the customers that did not get what was promised just because we want to protect CDPR, and we cannot destroy a Developer just because their management got greedy. All we can do is give them time to fix the game as best they can, refund for whoever doesn't want to wait that long and go from here. But, I'm guessing that is not so far from what you've been trying to say, just from a different perspective. My issue is when we start calling people "Console peasants" (not your words but FearTheCow) and claiming they "got what they deserve" because we're upset about how the rise of Consoles has effected PC development (or something equally removed from the actual subject), like its those customers fault. They were told it would run on their system and charged the same price we were. The rational ones are only asking for that much and all I've been trying to say is that is a fair request.
 
My issue is when we start calling people "Console peasants" (not your words but and claiming they "got what they deserve" because we're upset about how the rise of Consoles has effected PC development (or something equally removed from the actual subject), like its those customers fault. They were told it would run on their system and charged the same price we were. The rational ones are only asking for that much and all I've been trying to say is that is a fair request.

It's really this simple. It's a bad look for CDPR but they are trying to make things right.
 
I had fun with this game and feel it was worth the money, though it was a bit of a one-and-done for me. The first act is a drag to get through, especially after the first playthrough of the game. I also don't like that the game reverts you to an older savepoint once the game ends rather than just continue seamlessly and let you finish up any sidequests and things you missed. I also feel like the lack of flying cars and a city designed around them was a big misstep for a cyberpunk game. Gameplay-wise this almost may have well been a GTA mod. Fortunately, I did not go into this game with any hype beforehand, so I was still satisfied with the experience.

I think the CDPR formula might just not be my cup of tea. It was a very hit and miss experience for me. The graphics and performance were good and it had some fun moments. I guess I just found the pacing very rough and not enough redeeming attributes to it to want to keep playing. It seems like a victim of its own ambition in some ways, as its scale is immense in some ways. I'm certainly glad we have the game. I just wish it was better.
 
The PC vs. Consoles thing is ridiculous these days. If we didn't have consoles (or if things were like the 80's and 90's) we'd basically have no PC games. Either that or we'd all be playing games that were shoddily programmed by 2-3 people in their spare time. I like being able to play nearly every 5-star game on my PC. Not to mention a superior experience on 99% of them.
 
Console players were offered a refund, if they dont like it they can go somewhere else and stop complaining that a new game doesn't look and play as well on their 8 year old hardware as it does on gaming PC's.

Last gen console players aren't complaining that their game doesn't look the way it does on PC.

Last gen console players are complaining because the game is borderline unplayable. It's riddled with game breaking bugs. The framerate and visual quality is embarrassingly bad, like some of the worst that generation has ever seen bad. Its straight up unfinished. The real issue though isn't just those things, it's the way CDPR communicated to the public about those versions of the game. CDPR flat out stated before launch that it ran "surprisingly well" on last-gen consoles, giving all those customers faith that it was OK to pre-order the game. Nearer to launch, they made sure not to provide review copies for last gen consoles, nor did they allow any media outlet to show off the game on last-gen consoles prior to launch. They knew it looked like shit, they knew it ran like shit, and they knew it was broken, and they hid it from the world while telling everyone it was fine. They straight up lied to millions of customers. This is not excusable because it's ok on PC. It's not excusable because they offered refunds. I don't think we've ever seen a video game release like this, ever. The way people respond to this sets a precedent that you can bet other companies in the industry are paying close attention to. What do you think happens when we collectively say it's OK that CDPR lied to millions of customers because it was only those last gen console peasants and they were offered refunds anyway? If CDPR, one of the most highly praised developers in the industry, can get away with fucking over millions of customers just because they did right by their largest player base... what do you think the likes of Ubisoft and EA are going to make of that? The companies more historically known for fucking PC players to keep their higher selling console customers happy? It sends a message that it's ok to misrepresent, lie about, or straight up not finish a game on your less popular platforms, so long as you've kept the majority happy. That's not good for anyone, no matter what you're gaming on.

I'm still a big fan of the game, and CDPR in general, but I won't excuse their actions. It's one of the worst cock ups in gaming history. They need to be held accountable for their actions. It needs to be made very clear it is not OK and cannot happen again. Until the game runs the way they promised it would for EVERY customer, they deserve all the backlash that comes their way.
 
Last gen console players aren't complaining that their game doesn't look the way it does on PC.

Last gen console players are complaining because the game is borderline unplayable. It's riddled with game breaking bugs. The framerate and visual quality is embarrassingly bad, like some of the worst that generation has ever seen bad. Its straight up unfinished. The real issue though isn't just those things, it's the way CDPR communicated to the public about those versions of the game. CDPR flat out stated before launch that it ran "surprisingly well" on last-gen consoles, giving all those customers faith that it was OK to pre-order the game. Nearer to launch, they made sure not to provide review copies for last gen consoles, nor did they allow any media outlet to show off the game on last-gen consoles prior to launch. They knew it looked like shit, they knew it ran like shit, and they knew it was broken, and they hid it from the world while telling everyone it was fine. They straight up lied to millions of customers. This is not excusable because it's ok on PC. It's not excusable because they offered refunds. I don't think we've ever seen a video game release like this, ever. The way people respond to this sets a precedent that you can bet other companies in the industry are paying close attention to. What do you think happens when we collectively say it's OK that CDPR lied to millions of customers because it was only those last gen console peasants and they were offered refunds anyway? If CDPR, one of the most highly praised developers in the industry, can get away with fucking over millions of customers just because they did right by their largest player base... what do you think the likes of Ubisoft and EA are going to make of that? The companies more historically known for fucking PC players to keep their higher selling console customers happy? It sends a message that it's ok to misrepresent, lie about, or straight up not finish a game on your less popular platforms, so long as you've kept the majority happy. That's not good for anyone, no matter what you're gaming on.

I'm still a big fan of the game, and CDPR in general, but I won't excuse their actions. It's one of the worst cock ups in gaming history. They need to be held accountable for their actions. It needs to be made very clear it is not OK and cannot happen again. Until the game runs the way they promised it would for EVERY customer, they deserve all the backlash that comes their way.
So what are you exactly proposing? A lynching? Stringing them up on light poles? You must be joking, because Fallout 76 wasn't so long ago and it was just as bad, or worse at release. Or do you recall C&C Renegade? It was unplayable and I doubt it ever got to a playable state that one. History is littered with terrible buggy games. Or Driver2 on PSX ran like ass 10-15fps. Driver parallel lines on PC was a joke. And a bunch of shitty buggy relases that never even got fixed. The road could be paved til Rome with all the broken games.

This just proves that success doesn't come from making a flawless game, it comes from making games that people actually want to play, that are not copies of copies of clones of clones.
 
So what are you exactly proposing? A lynching? Stringing them up on light poles? You must be joking, because Fallout 76 wasn't so long ago and it was just as bad, or worse at release. Or do you recall C&C Renegade? It was unplayable and I doubt it ever got to a playable state that one. History is littered with terrible buggy games. Or Driver2 on PSX ran like ass 10-15fps. Driver parallel lines on PC was a joke. And a bunch of shitty buggy relases that never even got fixed. The road could be paved til Rome with all the broken games.

This just proves that success doesn't come from making a flawless game, it comes from making games that people actually want to play, that are not copies of copies of clones of clones.

I'm not proposing anything, I'm only saying that it's not ok to excuse CDPRs behavior because the platform we happen to be playing on is fine. The mentality that console players need to get over it and move on because PC players got a working game doesn't resonate with me. They are customers same as us. They paid the same as us and were given the same promises as us. They have every right to complain.

I think your missing my point. The game being bad on some platforms isn't the problem. It's that people were flat out lied to and the game was hidden from the public. I never played renegade, and the driver titles are a long distant memory, so I can't really speak to those, but none of the titles you listed had the hype or the sales figures that CP2077 did. I'd also wager none of those games had the developers come out and tell people how great their games ran before launch. The situations aren't really comparable.
 
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I'm not proposing anything, I'm only saying that it's not ok to excuse CDPRs behavior because the platform we happen to be playing on is fine. The mentality that console players need to get over it and move on because PC players got a working game doesn't resonate with me. They are customers same as us. They paid the same as us and were given the same promises as us. They have every right to complain.
No, the mentality isn't PC players got a working game. It is that for the first time in history console players have drawn the short stick, which was the "privilege" of PC players until now in every multi-platform release. It does seem like poetic justice in a way. But their reaction is as if suddenly the world is ending. No, we've been dealing with bad ports for 25 years, it was about time for the cookie to bite back.

I think your missing my point. The game being bad on some platforms isn't the problem. It's that people were flat out lied to and the game was hidden from the public. I never played renegade, and the driver titles are a long distant memory. None of the titles you listed had the hype or the sales figures that CP2077 did. I'd also wager none of those games had the developers come out and tell people how great their games ran before launch.
The sales numbers doesn't make the game more or less broken. Or do you think if there were half or a tenth as many ps4 players that would make it better? I'm pretty sure none of the developers have told gamers that their game will be buggy and unplayable either. And how does "Better than expected" transmute into "great"?
 
No, the mentality isn't PC players got a working game. It is that for the first time in history console players have drawn the short stick, which was the "privilege" of PC players until now in every multi-platform release. It does seem like poetic justice in a way. But their reaction is as if suddenly the world is ending. No, we've been dealing with bad ports for 25 years, it was about time for the cookie to bite back.


The sales numbers doesn't make the game more or less broken. Or do you think if there were half or a tenth as many ps4 players that would make it better? I'm pretty sure none of the developers have told gamers that their game will be buggy and unplayable either. And how does "Better than expected" transmute into "great"?

Your still missing my point. The bad port isn't the issue, the flat out lie about its state is. If your not understanding this, I cannot explain it any better. Also, I find your position of "weve gotten bad ports for years, about time console players got shafted instead" to be pretty childish. Is it so hard for you to just be a little empathetic and acknowledge that it sucks that console players were flat out lied to and delivered a shit product? You wouldn't be singing any praise if the console versions represented every version... Why is it OK as long as it's not happening to you?

I agree that sales numbers don't make a game more or less broken. A broken game is a broken game, it's not ok to lie to your customers in any circumstance. My only point in mentioning sales was that the amount of people mislead by CDPR is staggering. It's the reason why there is such a loud outcry... Because in this case, even just the vocal minority exceeds most games total customer base. Millions of people drew the short straw.

Furthermore, I don't expect that CDPR should have come out before launch and said "FYI, if your on an older console, don't buy our game, it's bad." I think you know that, though. It should not have not been allowed to release at all in the state its in. The last gen version of the game should have been delayed, or else canceled entirely. In either case, telling your customers to buy with confidence because the game runs well, knowing that is a flat out lie, is inexcusable.

Seriously man, I don't get it. Why do you take issue with the fact that console players are upset for being shafted? They were mislead, they were lied to, and they were sold a $60 unplayable game. You really, genuinely believe they don't have a right to be upset about that?
 
out of curiosity - does anybody have a general idea how its running on the ps5 and latest xbox?

Ironically, I've had more issues with Assassins Creed Valhalla on my pc than Cyberpunk
 
out of curiosity - does anybody have a general idea how its running on the ps5 and latest xbox?

Ironically, I've had more issues with Assassins Creed Valhalla on my pc than Cyberpunk

Have a buddy playing on Series X who gave up on for a few months. Performance and visuals are OK but he's had his 40+ hour game nuked by game breaking bugs twice now. He endes up buying a copy on pc just so he could play it.
 
Here's a handy little performance chart for reference if you're tweaking settings:

cp2077-allsettings-734x1024.png
 
DLC when?

I'm officially out of things to do. Collected every legendary armor set, all the Iconics that I can (some are unobtainable since I picked the wrong dialog/story choice) and every side mission/NCPD icon is dealt with. Got a great build with all the Legendary armor and weapons I could want and nothing to do with it all.

I could play the ending again and pick Rogue's path... Johnny's secret ending is locked out since i'm only at 60% with him and I don't think there is anything I can do to increase that at this point.
 
Only took me 25 hours to finish the story. I feel like I got the shitty ending. Just like I did in witcher 3.
 
I'm pretty sure I basically ruined the game for myself with the legendary ping mod.

It's way too overpowered, I can't do hacking any more. Clearing entire buildings without ever moving, at zero risk, is too ridiculous. I don't need to pay attention to shit, I just throw a couple contagions and suddenly 10 people are unconscious No aiming, no sneaking, just a couple clicks.

I melt everything in seconds.
 
I just got to the "point of no return", and stopped the main quest while I finish some other stuff up. Overall, not bad, but not "breathtaking" either, unfortunately. Main quest felt very short overall, and not many of the side jobs / gigs were all that interesting. I still have a ton of them to do and I'm sort of meh on trying to get through all of them at this point.

Quickhacking is indeed OP, you can just use System Reset or Suicide to one-shot most enemies, or the elemental hacks depending on what they are weak to. You can basically get through everything without ever firing a gun at all, which is kinda cool but also kinda boring after awhile.

Half the time I am wondering if the way certain things work is intentionally shitty design, or just bugs. Also ran into my fair share of confirmed bugs, including a couple where the quest wouldn't update properly because I didn't do objectives in the "right" order (even though the game allows to you) and I had to roll back progress. I also ended up finding a main quest location way before it was used in the quest, and discovered that it was all like pre-destroyed (was supposed to happen during the quest) and clearly set up to be part of a larger mission later on. So some of the shortcuts taken by CDPR just feel lazy, or like they really ran out of time.
 
Your still missing my point. The bad port isn't the issue, the flat out lie about its state is. If your not understanding this, I cannot explain it any better. Also, I find your position of "weve gotten bad ports for years, about time console players got shafted instead" to be pretty childish. Is it so hard for you to just be a little empathetic and acknowledge that it sucks that console players were flat out lied to and delivered a shit product? You wouldn't be singing any praise if the console versions represented every version...
LOL, kettle, pot, black. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. So PC gamers getting bad ports for years (decades) on end and taking it with murmurs of discontent, but now as my memory serves for the first time it is console players who get a bad port, and suddenly it is worthy of class action? You don't see a double standard here, really? You think every bad PC port was fully disclosed as a part port by the marketing of the developer?
Why is it OK as long as it's not happening to you?
Why is mr strawman still here? Nobody says it's OK, all we say is stop whining about it, because PC players had put up with similar releases since console ports existed.
I agree that sales numbers don't make a game more or less broken. A broken game is a broken game, it's not ok to lie to your customers in any circumstance. My only point in mentioning sales was that the amount of people mislead by CDPR is staggering. It's the reason why there is such a loud outcry... Because in this case, even just the vocal minority exceeds most games total customer base. Millions of people drew the short straw.
You are still not offering a solution. What do you think we PC players should do about it? Attack CDPR in solidarity with console owners? When did they ever speak up about bad PC ports? And mind you most of which never got fixed, and was never even promised to be fixed.
Furthermore, I don't expect that CDPR should have come out before launch and said "FYI, if your on an older console, don't buy our game, it's bad." I think you know that, though. It should not have not been allowed to release at all in the state its in. The last gen version of the game should have been delayed, or else canceled entirely. In either case, telling your customers to buy with confidence because the game runs well, knowing that is a flat out lie, is inexcusable.
Again, when did a company ever say "don't buy our game, it's bad"? That's a tiny bit unreasonable don't you think? Yeah some idiots in suits made a bad call to release the game now on consoles. Nobody denies that. But you still haven't answered the question. What do you think should happen?
Seriously man, I don't get it. Why do you take issue with the fact that console players are upset for being shafted? They were mislead, they were lied to, and they were sold a $60 unplayable game. You really, genuinely believe they don't have a right to be upset about that?
Everyone has a right to be upset about anything. But being upset is only punishing yourself for other people's stupidity. They got the option of refunds, I don't think there is anything more that can be done, or needs to be done.
Why would it be better if they didn't get a game at all?
 
Seriously man, I don't get it. Why do you take issue with the fact that console players are upset for being shafted? They were mislead, they were lied to, and they were sold a $60 unplayable game. You really, genuinely believe they don't have a right to be upset about that?
There's probably a console subforum to take this up in.
 
LOL, kettle, pot, black. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. So PC gamers getting bad ports for years (decades) on end and taking it with murmurs of discontent, but now as my memory serves for the first time it is console players who get a bad port, and suddenly it is worthy of class action? You don't see a double standard here, really? You think every bad PC port was fully disclosed as a part port by the marketing of the developer?
The class action lawsuit isn't for the customers. It's for the investors. Nevertheless, they were lied to same as the consumers, so yeah, the lawsuit has merit. Still, you're ignoring what I'm saying. Your fixated on the "bad port" part. Of all those bad ports we've gotten, how many times did the developers say "don't worry, it runs well" before hand? Even saying nothing is less damning that flat out lying. That's what your not understanding. I'll even drop a link for you so there is no confusion on my issue: https://www.gamesradar.com/cyberpun...nt-gen-consoles-according-to-cd-projekts-ceo/. When your CEO says things like "the game is running surprisingly great on every platform" and "[on the base consoles] it's still surprisingly good" -- That was a pure, undisputable lie. It wasn't true then, it wasn't true at release, it still isn't true now. That's the problem I have with CDPR's actions. Not that it's a bad port, but that they said it was a good port, knowing damn well it was not.
Why is mr strawman still here? Nobody says it's OK, all we say is stop whining about it, because PC players had put up with similar releases since console ports existed.
You mean to tell me that when PC players get a bad port, they aren't vocal about it? Your "kettle, pot, black" schtick works well here. Every time we get a bad release, the PC community will bitch and moan like anyone else. But when console players get lied to and delivered a broken, unplayable experience, they're just supposed to shut up and take it because it happens more to us than it does to them?

You are still not offering a solution. What do you think we PC players should do about it? Attack CDPR in solidarity with console owners? When did they ever speak up about bad PC ports? And mind you most of which never got fixed, and was never even promised to be fixed.
This isn't about fixing it, it isn't about a solution. It's that the behavior is not acceptable in the first place. It's not OK to just write off the fact that CDPR lied to millions of customers, and it's not fair to tell those people "sucks that you got lied to, but that's your problem, so shut up about it". Literally, the only thing I expect from anyone is a bit of empathy for the people who were wronged. This whole PC vs. console thing is fucking stupid. We're all playing games, we're all driving the industry. Yes, I think you should be disappointed with CDPR, same as the console players are. I maintain the issue is bigger than a bad port. The issue is communication prior to release. The issue is misleading, or lying to your customers. Kinda like how Witcher 3 looked better at E3 than it did before launch, and people were pissed about the downgrade. Except, we knew about that because we saw those downgrades in updated trailers prior to release. What if CDPR had showed their doctored, E3 version of the game, all the time, every time, right up until release and promised gamers that's exactly how it looked, only find that was a straight lie when you fired the game up for the first time? Would you be mad? Would you be vocal about it? Because that is why console players are mad. That is why they are vocal. Just because it didn't happen to you this time, doesn't mean it hasn't happened before, and doesn't mean it won't happen again. Instead of being at odds, and thinking "at least the console peasants got their dues this time", how about acknowledging that it's not OK regardless of who it's happening to. Seriously, tell me, what do you lose by being supportive of those that were wronged? How does it negatively impact you to acknowledge that CDPR did wrong by millions of customers?

Again, when did a company ever say "don't buy our game, it's bad"? That's a tiny bit unreasonable don't you think? Yeah some idiots in suits made a bad call to release the game now on consoles. Nobody denies that. But you still haven't answered the question. What do you think should happen?
Do I need to quote myself for you? No company says that, which is why I said I don't expect that CDPR should have said that. Obviously that's unreasonable, I made that clear. I even said I think you know I don't mean that (although I guess I was wrong there). I have answered your question regarding what I think should happen. I think everyone should be supportive of the people who were lied to instead of saying "it's not happening to me so it's not my problem" and that they need to shut up and get over it. We're all here because we like to play games, and we all want those games to be good. At the very least, we want them delivered as promised. If companies aren't held responsible for misleading their customers, it will keep happening. And as you clearly understand, most of the time, it happens to US. Literally all I'm asking of you is to not be OK with a company lying to it's customers to drive pre-orders and delivery a broken ass, unfinished game. The damage has been done, they cannot take it back, they cannot fix it. That doesn't mean consumers cannot send a clear message that it's unacceptable and can't happen again.

Everyone has a right to be upset about anything. But being upset is only punishing yourself for other people's stupidity. They got the option of refunds, I don't think there is anything more that can be done, or needs to be done.
Why would it be better if they didn't get a game at all?
Yes, I do think it would be better if they didn't get the game at all, because then they would still have their money. Also, CDPR's refund campaign is not the knight in shining armor you think it is. For digital purchases, they told people to go fight it out with MS and Sony (which seems to have been smoothed out now, but was a rocky and probably very frustrating thing to pursue early on). For physical copies, they told people to go back to their place of purchase. But we know very well that B&M retailers do not give refunds on open video games. Not not, now ever. It's against their policy and they are usually unwaveringly firm on that policy. Maybe after a few weeks and a lot of backlash they've let up on that, but I honestly don't know, and I wouldn't be surprised to here that many B&M stores are still not taking the game back. And CDPR's refund help campaign ended December 21st. How convenient that their gracious assistance to gamers ends 4 days before probably hundreds of thousands of copies get pulled out from under a Christmas tree. All those copies with no receipt, no options with B&M's, and CDPR's assistance conveniently over. CDPR did what they had to do to save face while still finding a way to one again stick it to the people they've already fucked over. So no, there are a lot of people with a copy of the game who did not get their option of a refund.

For the sake of completeness, I'll say this one more time just so there is no mistaking it... My issue is not with the state of the game, it's with the way CDPR communicated to players. If you want to continue to discuss that, great. If you want to continue to have a conversation about a bad port, don't bother, because I'm not going to acknowledge it. I can only say so many times that isn't what I'm bothered by.
 
I finished the main story last night during my first and initial playthrough. I used the corpo playthrough and I largely went for a broad Deus Ex type experience and got it. Overall I am pretty impressed with the storytelling. A few thoughts:

The secret ending is super picky to get and I apparently missed the boat on that just because of some super-specific dialog choices that needed to be made in "Chippin' In."

I felt like I had a good balance with Johnny that wasn't "butt kissing" but we became friends. I did all the personal sidequests, Rogue date, everything and it just wasn't good enough. Oh well. Maybe CDPR will consider a patch to make that "slightly" more forgiving but no biggie.

I actually was pleasantly pleased to see I had played the game well enough with the secondary characters and supporting cast just by "making good choices" that all that worked out.

I didn't realize Takemura could be saved either so these are two things I will take into account for any replays. I do have multiple saves but nothing that far back.

Out of all the endings, I would say the "go with Johnny and Rogue" and then have Johnny go into cyberspace forever with Alt made the most sense to me out of what was available overall. The ending with V headed towards the space station is suggestive for any number of future adventures. Mr. Blue Eyes is intriguing.
 
The class action lawsuit isn't for the customers. It's for the investors. Nevertheless, they were lied to same as the consumers, so yeah, the lawsuit has merit. Still, you're ignoring what I'm saying. Your fixated on the "bad port" part. Of all those bad ports we've gotten, how many times did the developers say "don't worry, it runs well" before hand? Even saying nothing is less damning that flat out lying. That's what your not understanding. I'll even drop a link for you so there is no confusion on my issue: https://www.gamesradar.com/cyberpun...nt-gen-consoles-according-to-cd-projekts-ceo/. When your CEO says things like "the game is running surprisingly great on every platform" and "[on the base consoles] it's still surprisingly good" -- That was a pure, undisputable lie. It wasn't true then, it wasn't true at release, it still isn't true now. That's the problem I have with CDPR's actions. Not that it's a bad port, but that they said it was a good port, knowing damn well it was not.

You mean to tell me that when PC players get a bad port, they aren't vocal about it? Your "kettle, pot, black" schtick works well here. Every time we get a bad release, the PC community will bitch and moan like anyone else. But when console players get lied to and delivered a broken, unplayable experience, they're just supposed to shut up and take it because it happens more to us than it does to them?


This isn't about fixing it, it isn't about a solution. It's that the behavior is not acceptable in the first place. It's not OK to just write off the fact that CDPR lied to millions of customers, and it's not fair to tell those people "sucks that you got lied to, but that's your problem, so shut up about it". Literally, the only thing I expect from anyone is a bit of empathy for the people who were wronged. This whole PC vs. console thing is fucking stupid. We're all playing games, we're all driving the industry. Yes, I think you should be disappointed with CDPR, same as the console players are. I maintain the issue is bigger than a bad port. The issue is communication prior to release. The issue is misleading, or lying to your customers. Kinda like how Witcher 3 looked better at E3 than it did before launch, and people were pissed about the downgrade. Except, we knew about that because we saw those downgrades in updated trailers prior to release. What if CDPR had showed their doctored, E3 version of the game, all the time, every time, right up until release and promised gamers that's exactly how it looked, only find that was a straight lie when you fired the game up for the first time? Would you be mad? Would you be vocal about it? Because that is why console players are mad. That is why they are vocal. Just because it didn't happen to you this time, doesn't mean it hasn't happened before, and doesn't mean it won't happen again. Instead of being at odds, and thinking "at least the console peasants got their dues this time", how about acknowledging that it's not OK regardless of who it's happening to. Seriously, tell me, what do you lose by being supportive of those that were wronged? How does it negatively impact you to acknowledge that CDPR did wrong by millions of customers?


Do I need to quote myself for you? No company says that, which is why I said I don't expect that CDPR should have said that. Obviously that's unreasonable, I made that clear. I even said I think you know I don't mean that (although I guess I was wrong there). I have answered your question regarding what I think should happen. I think everyone should be supportive of the people who were lied to instead of saying "it's not happening to me so it's not my problem" and that they need to shut up and get over it. We're all here because we like to play games, and we all want those games to be good. At the very least, we want them delivered as promised. If companies aren't held responsible for misleading their customers, it will keep happening. And as you clearly understand, most of the time, it happens to US. Literally all I'm asking of you is to not be OK with a company lying to it's customers to drive pre-orders and delivery a broken ass, unfinished game. The damage has been done, they cannot take it back, they cannot fix it. That doesn't mean consumers cannot send a clear message that it's unacceptable and can't happen again.


Yes, I do think it would be better if they didn't get the game at all, because then they would still have their money. Also, CDPR's refund campaign is not the knight in shining armor you think it is. For digital purchases, they told people to go fight it out with MS and Sony (which seems to have been smoothed out now, but was a rocky and probably very frustrating thing to pursue early on). For physical copies, they told people to go back to their place of purchase. But we know very well that B&M retailers do not give refunds on open video games. Not not, now ever. It's against their policy and they are usually unwaveringly firm on that policy. Maybe after a few weeks and a lot of backlash they've let up on that, but I honestly don't know, and I wouldn't be surprised to here that many B&M stores are still not taking the game back. And CDPR's refund help campaign ended December 21st. How convenient that their gracious assistance to gamers ends 4 days before probably hundreds of thousands of copies get pulled out from under a Christmas tree. All those copies with no receipt, no options with B&M's, and CDPR's assistance conveniently over. CDPR did what they had to do to save face while still finding a way to one again stick it to the people they've already fucked over. So no, there are a lot of people with a copy of the game who did not get their option of a refund.

For the sake of completeness, I'll say this one more time just so there is no mistaking it... My issue is not with the state of the game, it's with the way CDPR communicated to players. If you want to continue to discuss that, great. If you want to continue to have a conversation about a bad port, don't bother, because I'm not going to acknowledge it. I can only say so many times that isn't what I'm bothered by.
I think they communicated perfectly fine, realistically the game does play surprisingly well on i year old consoles. Console peasants just assumed what that meant, what it really meant us what was released.
 
I think they communicated perfectly fine, realistically the game does play surprisingly well on i year old consoles. Console peasants just assumed what that meant, what it really meant us what was released.

I mean, if your interpretation is "Were surprised it runs at all", then I guess you're right. I don't think the people shopping on those platforms took it that way. If I were buying the game on XO or PS4 and I saw the statement "the game is running surprisingly great on every platform", I'm taking that at face value, which is that the game runs great on my platform. That's not an assumption, those are the exact words spoken by their CEO. Perhaps its the word great that gets me. If the statement was "the game is running on every platform", that's something different. I mean, technically, it functions... but there's nothing great about it. Its a shit show.
 
I think they communicated perfectly fine, realistically the game does play surprisingly well on i year old consoles. Console peasants just assumed what that meant, what it really meant us what was released.
In the conference call with their investor:
And PS4, yesterday we released the gameplay both on PS4 and PS5. So, you can see the difference. And on both -- I mean, PS5 is great. PS4 is still very good. I mean, we had those extra three weeks and we achieved a lot by -- within this final stretch. So, we believe that the game is performing great on every platform. Of course, accordingly to platform capabilities, but not every platform should be great.

If that is a good and honest representation of what they really think about the state of the PS4 game and match what people were saying internally, maybe, but we can have doubt. Saying that the game was performing great on the original PS4 late November do seem misleading and a lie (Ok could pass, great seem pushing it).
 
Bummer: They say when you beat the game and keep playing "special rewards" are in your inventory and the docs can give you any cyberwar you had. I had this AMAZING assault rifle and it's gone now. D'oh!

I am debating a replay, when, and how I want to do it. At some point New Game + is going to happen. In the meantime I might start a new character and see what I can do better.
 
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I don't follow, why did you lose the rifle? Bug in the game or something else?
Have you finished the game? I have not, but I venture we're drifting into potential spoiler territory here. I have no idea what happens at the end of the game, but I've seem comments that allude to it being best to do everything you want to do prior to finishing. I don't think it ends like a lot of open world RPGs where the credits roll and it drops you right back where you left off to take care of any side quests and whatnot. I'm making guesses because I don't want to spoil anything by looking into it further, but to play it safe I intend to do everything I care to do before playing the final mission.
 
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